Hey there,

Does anybody own one of the Audio Blueray's (especially intrested in Exile) and think it's far superior to the Virgin CDs? I heard Exile is a different master than the 2010 remaster with more dynamic range, so maybe its even better than the Virgin master, apart from the higher solution.
I also had to buy a new blueray player which is able to connect to my PC, so that I could also rip the audio to flac files. So i want to know if it's worth it sound-wise.

StonedRambler

Blu-ray Audio has the potential to be better but,it depends on the mastering of the disc.

I actually heard that the 2011 Japanese SA-CD of 'Exile on Main Street' was better than the Blu-ray Audio disc because of the master that was used.

Blu-ray Audio discs and SA-CD's should be equal for stereo audio provided the same master source.

I think that all Rolling Stones SA-CD's are in stereo besides one "Sympathy for the Devil" remix but there are / were 5.0 or 5.1 channel SA-CD's from other artists.

Blu-ray Audio Discs could provide more channels for multi-channel mixes : 7.2 channels for an example ....... in lossless high-resolution quality.

To notice the benefit over standard CD's,you would need the appropriate equipment throughout the entire chain. No BlueTooth,no wireless. You need the right amplifier,the right pre-amplifier/sound processor,DAC's,the right source component,high quality speakers,and it all needs to be hooked-up and wired the right way in a decent listening environment.

It's not as easy as buying a Blu-ray disc player and / or a SA-CD player and a disc. It can be an expensive hobby but,it is all relative one's resources.

Beyond that,it has been convoluted in the Stones world by multiple reissues of the same titles with different masters of various degrees of quality.

The lib one os fabulous.
Eoms bluray isnt really worth the dough

Let It Bleed blu-ray = 2002 remaster - ie same as 2002 and 2010 SACD but offered in 192kHz-24 bits PCM.

Exile on Main St blu-ray = 2011 remaster - aka "flat transfer" - ie same as 2011 Japanese SACD but offered in 96kHz-24 bits PCM.

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Winning Ugly VXII
Blu-ray Audio has the potential to be better but,it depends on the mastering of the disc.

I actually heard that the 2011 Japanese SA-CD of 'Exile on Main Street' was better than the Blu-ray Audio disc because of the master that was used.

Blu-ray Audio discs and SA-CD's should be equal for stereo audio provided the same master source.

I think that all Rolling Stones SA-CD's are in stereo besides one "Sympathy for the Devil" remix but there are / were 5.0 or 5.1 channel SA-CD's from other artists.

Blu-ray Audio Discs could provide more channels for multi-channel mixes : 7.2 channels for an example ....... in lossless high-resolution quality.

To notice the benefit over standard CD's,you would need the appropriate equipment throughout the entire chain. No BlueTooth,no wireless. You need the right amplifier,the right pre-amplifier/sound processor,DAC's,the right source component,high quality speakers,and it all needs to be hooked-up and wired the right way in a decent listening environment.

It's not as easy as buying a Blu-ray disc player and / or a SA-CD player and a disc. It can be an expensive hobby but,it is all relative one's resources.

Beyond that,it has been convoluted in the Stones world by multiple reissues of the same titles with different masters of various degrees of quality.

Yep, So many remasters over the years from so many source tapes of varying quality that it's almost a lottery !



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-03 11:30 by Spud.

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Spud

Yep, So many remasters over the years from so many source tapes of varying quality that it's almost a lottery !

Actually, not "so many remasters" are currently available.

For albums from 1964 to 1970 there's only one remaster since 2002. It's from remasters made by Bob Ludwig in 2002 and the same are used since then, should the albums be released on CD, SACD, vinyl, download...

For albums from 1971 to 1986, two remasters are currently available. Either the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters (regular CD's, latest vinyl releases, downloads), or either the 2011 so-called "flat transfers" (released only in Japan on SACD, and then on CD, with the exception of Exile on main St, released also on blu-ray worlwide).

For albums from 1989 to 2005, There are only the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters currently available.

Previously available:
- Bob Ludwig 1994/1998 remasters (albums from 1971 to 1991)
- ABKCO mid-nineties remasters (albums from 1964 to 1970)
- Mobile Fidelity remasters from the mid eighties (albums from 1964 to 1970) - those were released under the "London" label.


This means you can get all the Stones discography on CD remastered by Bob Ludwig (except for the releases from 1994 on). IMO that would be the most consistent choice.

I come from the consumer electronics business.

In short terms, your audio system is as good as its weakest link, or component.

If you have the blu-ray player, the disc, and play it through low or mid range equipment, you probably won't experience a discernible increase in sound quality.

Soundbars and surround systems are mainly for convenience.
Surround systems, do exactly that.
Surround you with well placed sound.
Not necessarily hi fidelity sound.
Soundbars are made to fit under your flat screen TV and you place a wireless (bluetooth) subwoofer in the corner.
They just sound better than your TV, not much else.

If you're looking for better sound without having to buy new discs, or a blu-ray player?

Purchase a good, HIGH-CURRENT, STEREO RECEIVER (or pre-amp/amplifier) with quality speakers.
You can use the discs you already own with better results. You DON'T need expensive speaker wire or rca cables.

Another thing to consider is your hearing. As we age, especially the male population, lose the ability to hear higher frequencies. All the best equipment in the world won't help you if you can't hear it.

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kowalski

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Spud

Yep, So many remasters over the years from so many source tapes of varying quality that it's almost a lottery !

Actually, not "so many remasters" are currently available.

For albums from 1964 to 1970 there's only one remaster since 2002. It's from remasters made by Bob Ludwig in 2002 and the same are used since then, should the albums be released on CD, SACD, vinyl, download...

For albums from 1971 to 1986, two remasters are currently available. Either the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters (regular CD's, latest vinyl releases, downloads), or either the 2011 so-called "flat transfers" (released only in Japan on SACD, and then on CD, with the exception of Exile on main St, released also on blu-ray worlwide).

For albums from 1989 to 2005, There are only the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters currently available.

Previously available:
- Bob Ludwig 1994/1998 remasters (albums from 1971 to 1991)
- ABKCO mid-nineties remasters (albums from 1964 to 1970)
- Mobile Fidelity remasters from the mid eighties (albums from 1964 to 1970) - those were released under the "London" label.


This means you can get all the Stones discography on CD remastered by Bob Ludwig (except for the releases from 1994 on). IMO that would be the most consistent choice.

Regarding the ABKCO releases, the 2016 Mono box (albums released seperately this year) offered new remasters of the lot. A portion of it in unique mixes. The rest of it in either new transfers or using the same as the 2002's. Still new masterings, though.

Old London or Virgin cd's can be obtained used, and very cheap, on Discogs.
So by meaning "currently available" in this internet-age, is very debatable, as 90% of buying cd's on the market today, is done on the web.

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Blueranger

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kowalski

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Spud

Yep, So many remasters over the years from so many source tapes of varying quality that it's almost a lottery !

Actually, not "so many remasters" are currently available.

For albums from 1964 to 1970 there's only one remaster since 2002. It's from remasters made by Bob Ludwig in 2002 and the same are used since then, should the albums be released on CD, SACD, vinyl, download...

For albums from 1971 to 1986, two remasters are currently available. Either the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters (regular CD's, latest vinyl releases, downloads), or either the 2011 so-called "flat transfers" (released only in Japan on SACD, and then on CD, with the exception of Exile on main St, released also on blu-ray worlwide).

For albums from 1989 to 2005, There are only the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters currently available.

Previously available:
- Bob Ludwig 1994/1998 remasters (albums from 1971 to 1991)
- ABKCO mid-nineties remasters (albums from 1964 to 1970)
- Mobile Fidelity remasters from the mid eighties (albums from 1964 to 1970) - those were released under the "London" label.


This means you can get all the Stones discography on CD remastered by Bob Ludwig (except for the releases from 1994 on). IMO that would be the most consistent choice.

Regarding the ABKCO releases, the 2016 Mono box (albums released seperately this year) offered new remasters of the lot. A portion of it in unique mixes. The rest of it in either new transfers or using the same as the 2002's. Still new masterings, though.

Old London or Virgin cd's can be obtained used, and very cheap, on Discogs.
So by meaning "currently available" in this internet-age, is very debatable, as 90% of buying cd's on the market today, is done on the web.

By currently available I mean latest vinyl releases, CD you can buy in retail stores, on Amazon, or in download form.
You're right about last year mono box. That makes another remaster.

The main problem is that so much of the re-mastering is not very good.

There are two factors wish determine the outcome when remastering.

The first is the technology and the second is the intent.

Improving Digital technology is not the handicapping factor it used to be ...

...But all too often remasters are eq'd and compressed to best meet the requirements of the typical modern consumer's often portable and ultimately low quality playback equipment.

There's no real dynamic range ...everything is loud...no subtlety.

Thank you all for your responses!

Indeed I haven't got a super high-quality audio system with an external receiver and super-expensive speakers. I mainly listen to music on my Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro headphones and at home I have a simple Sony consumer Hi-fi system. Really nothing for audiophiles and I am not satisfied with the sound. I am mostly listen through headphones so I use it only sometimes. Maybe I really should take some money and buy a good sound system.

My idea was to buy a blue-ray recorder for my computer, so that I could rip all the audio bluerays to flac files that which I could listen with my headphones. As the exile blue ray audio has the "flat transfer" mastering, I should hear the album just as it was on the master tapes without any additional processing as limiting. So the dynamic range should be fully perceived. Anybody owns the exile blueray (or the 2011 SACD which has the same mastering)? Is the dynamic range and the overall sound better than the Virgin CD?

It should certainly be better than a Virgin era CD .

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kowalski

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Spud

Yep, So many remasters over the years from so many source tapes of varying quality that it's almost a lottery !

Actually, not "so many remasters" are currently available.

For albums from 1964 to 1970 there's only one remaster since 2002. It's from remasters made by Bob Ludwig in 2002 and the same are used since then, should the albums be released on CD, SACD, vinyl, download...

For albums from 1971 to 1986, two remasters are currently available. Either the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters (regular CD's, latest vinyl releases, downloads), or either the 2011 so-called "flat transfers" (released only in Japan on SACD, and then on CD, with the exception of Exile on main St, released also on blu-ray worlwide).

For albums from 1989 to 2005, There are only the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters currently available.

Previously available:
- Bob Ludwig 1994/1998 remasters (albums from 1971 to 1991)
- ABKCO mid-nineties remasters (albums from 1964 to 1970)
- Mobile Fidelity remasters from the mid eighties (albums from 1964 to 1970) - those were released under the "London" label.


This means you can get all the Stones discography on CD remastered by Bob Ludwig (except for the releases from 1994 on). IMO that would be the most consistent choice.

And that is the best choice. He did outstanding work on the late 1960s early 1970s albums. There's no remastering possible for SOME GIRLS to get it to sound good. The current remaster of SOME GIRLS (of the Marcussen slaughters I only have the deluxe reissue of SOME GIRLS) is unlistenable. I have all the Virgin remasters but have only listened to the last 2 studio albums of the Ludwig remasters not all the way through because... not even he can make those albums better as well!

The speakers and cables don't NEED to be super-expensive. They just need to be good.

Q Acoustics makes some of the best low cost speakers around. Mid price range,you could go up to someone such as Focal or DALI or PMC. If you have a lot to spend,then you could audition something like the Triangle Audio Signature Deltas or Magico.

There are also tons of small direct order speaker companies selling quality speakers. Ascend Acoustics ; Salk ; Aperion.

Analog cables ..... I wouldn't spend 3 figures myself but,I would not use either the cheap,thin peel-apart cables which are included for free with most A/V electronics.

Digital cables and analog cables are 2 different beasts.

You can also get good speaker cable for cheap but,I'll tell you that if you buy the kind that comes in a bulk spool and you want to bi-amp your 2 front speakers,it can become a mess if you are not careful. I order my cables in custom lengths .... the exact lengths that I need with a little bit extra to spare to avoid the mess that most people have with their cables.

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kowalski

Quote
Spud

Yep, So many remasters over the years from so many source tapes of varying quality that it's almost a lottery !

Actually, not "so many remasters" are currently available.

For albums from 1964 to 1970 there's only one remaster since 2002. It's from remasters made by Bob Ludwig in 2002 and the same are used since then, should the albums be released on CD, SACD, vinyl, download...

For albums from 1971 to 1986, two remasters are currently available. Either the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters (regular CD's, latest vinyl releases, downloads), or either the 2011 so-called "flat transfers" (released only in Japan on SACD, and then on CD, with the exception of Exile on main St, released also on blu-ray worlwide).

For albums from 1989 to 2005, There are only the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters currently available.

Previously available:
- Bob Ludwig 1994/1998 remasters (albums from 1971 to 1991)
- ABKCO mid-nineties remasters (albums from 1964 to 1970)
- Mobile Fidelity remasters from the mid eighties (albums from 1964 to 1970) - those were released under the "London" label.


This means you can get all the Stones discography on CD remastered by Bob Ludwig (except for the releases from 1994 on). IMO that would be the most consistent choice.

It is important here to make / note the distinction between currently available and currently in print.

Anyway,there were CD's with the "London" label not a part of the Mobile Fidelity series , others that were a part of that series.

The low quality Abkco remasters were,I am almost certain,done in 1986 and not in the mid-'90's .... although they were what was for sale throughout the entire '90's.

The better digital remasters .... London label ; MFSL were actually done before 1986 if I recall correctly.

Post-1971 , there are CBS Cd's ; the Ludwig Virgin CD's which you mention. I also have "Still Life" on the Atlantic Records label (maybe imported from Germany or West Germany at the time).

The 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters should be recalled and pulled from the shelves.

The only reason to purchase a 2009 Stephen Marcussen remaster would be to get a bonus disc. Too bad that the high-resolution / hi-fi "Exile" releases which were issued later did not include the bonus CD tracks.

Guys, everything with re-masters is easy.
1 - pre-contract CDs
Japanese Tattoo You [CP35-3032], Undercover [CP35-3087](for Europe [CDP 7 46024 2]), Rewind [CP35-5021] (12 tracks), US Still Life [39113-2] (target CD, Made in W. Germany by PolyGram), US Rewind [7 90176-2] 14 tracks (Made in Japan by Sanyo).
These, apparently, were flat transfers from corresponding master tapes that were in house. Apart US Rewind and EU Undercover they are not an easy catch if you are looking for reasonably priced CDs. But the sound great.

Decca years
2 - So called MFSL masters. Rumor has it: the master tapes that were prepared by MFSL for the vinyl box were transferred flat to digital. These are West German London CDs
The Rolling Stones (1964) [820 047-2]
12x5 (1964) [820 048-2]
Out Of Our Heads US [820 049-2]
Aftermath UK (1966)[820 050-2]
Between The Buttons US (1967) [820 138-2]
Their Satanic Majesties Request (1967) [820 129-2]
Beggars Banquet (1968) [800 084-2]
Let It Bleed (1969) [820 050-2]
Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out (1970)[820 131-2]
Hot Rocks 1 and 2 (1971) [820 141-2] and [820 142-2]
Lots of wide stereo tracks. No play with spectra, no noise reduction, but a lot of tape artifacts. The first pressings appeared between 1984 and 1986 and they were re-issued multiple times till 1994. Some of those, like the 1st pressing of the debut album [820 047-2] could be rather expensive. The others are not that expensive but it depends on the seller.

There is no info who mastered the second part of the series Now! [820 133-2], Decembers Children [820 135-2], got LIVE if you want it! [820 137-2], Flowers [820 139-2], More Hot Rocks 1 [820 515-2], More Hot Rocks 2 [820 516-2] (first press in 1988). These were also in press in Europe till 1994.
I do not go here with the Japanese counterparts P33L, P25L and early POCD editions. They utilize the same A->D transfer but are slightly 'tweaked'

3 - Old ABKCO mastering from 1986. This was done by ALO and general consensus is - it sounds dreadful. This remaster was in use in Europe since 1995. The catalog # for those CDs starts with 844. In Japan since 1997 with catalog number higher than POCD-1930.

4 - SACD remaster from 2002. Generally is considered as ultimate remaster. SACD-hybrid CD's are expensive. Later single redbook re-issues are not.

5 - Mono remaster from 2016. Technically, there are only about 40 tracks with unique mono mixes. The rest are either fold downs or were used previously (2002 remaster).

RSR years.
6 - CBS remaster. It appears for the first time in 1986. For Europe the fist run of the series was made in Japan at Sony plant.
1971 - Sticky Fingers [CBS 450195 2]
1972 - Exile On Main Street [CDCBS 450196 2]
1973 - Goats Head Soup [CDCBS 450207 2]
1974 - It’s Only Rock’n’Roll [CDCBS 450202 2]
1976 - Black And Blue [CDCBS 450203 2]
1978 - Some Girls [CDCBS 450197 2]
1980 - Emotional Rescue [CDCBS 450206 2]
1981 - Tattoo You [CDCBS 450198 2]
1983 - Undercover [CDCBS 450200 2]
1977 - Love You Live (2CD) [CDCBS 450208 2]
1982 - Still Life (American concert 1981) [CDCBS 450204 2]
1975 - Made In The Shade [CDCBS 450201 2]
1980 - Sucking In The 70s [CDCBS 450205 2]
1984 - Rewind 1971-1984 [CDCBS 450199 2]
1986 - Stones On CD – A Radio Sampler [CDCBS SAMP 1103]. Do not expect to find this one easy and reasonably priced. Das Weissbuch states only 1000 were pressed.
I do not put here catalog numbers their US counterparts from CK series and Japanese 32DP Series. They all utilize the same mastering made by
Greg Calbi
1971 - Sticky Fingers
1972 - Exile On Main Street
1978 - Some Girls
1981 - Tattoo You

Vlado Meller
1973 - Goats Head Soup
1976 - Black And Blue
1977 - Love You Live
1980 - Emotional Rescue
1981 - Sucking in the Seventies
1982 - Still Life

George Marino
1984 - Rewind

Ted Jensen
1974 - It's Only Rock And Roll
1975 - Made In The Shade
1983 - Undercover

These CD's were on the market till 1994 and were re-issued multiple times. For Europe these were pressed in Austria since 1987.
The mastering here is 'soft' and it is less 'digital' comparing to the next Ludwig mastering. Austrian CD's generally are dirt cheap, the first Japanese pressing is a different story.
7 - Virgin editions from 1994 mastered by Bob Ludwig (from Sticky Fingers till Steel Wheels). These were considered as the best 'digital' versions till recent times. Actually, they are pretty good and rather cheap these days.
8 - 2009 remaster by Stephen Marcussen. Brickwalled.
9 - 2011-2013 Japanese SACD and SHM 'flat transfers'. These are currently the best versions on the market but they are rather expensive.

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Winning Ugly VXII
The only reason to purchase a 2009 Stephen Marcussen remaster would be to get a bonus disc.

I'm sorry, but what bonus disc(s)?

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GivenToFly15

I'm sorry, but what bonus disc(s)?

Bonus Disc means probably CD2 of the 2010 'Exile on Main St.' Deluxe-Edition with the 10 Extra-Tracks from 'Pass the Wine' to 'Title 5' -- [www.Amazon.com] .

Probably the same for the 2011 'Some Girls' 2CD Deluxe-Edition -- [www.Amazon.com] ....

Ok great, thanks for your answer. i was worried i had missed something...

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dennycranium
I come from the consumer electronics business.

In short terms, your audio system is as good as its weakest link, or component.

If you have the blu-ray player, the disc, and play it through low or mid range equipment, you probably won't experience a discernible increase in sound quality.

Soundbars and surround systems are mainly for convenience.
Surround systems, do exactly that.
Surround you with well placed sound.
Not necessarily hi fidelity sound.
Soundbars are made to fit under your flat screen TV and you place a wireless (bluetooth) subwoofer in the corner.
They just sound better than your TV, not much else.

If you're looking for better sound without having to buy new discs, or a blu-ray player?

Purchase a good, HIGH-CURRENT, STEREO RECEIVER (or pre-amp/amplifier) with quality speakers.
You can use the discs you already own with better results. You DON'T need expensive speaker wire or rca cables.

Another thing to consider is your hearing. As we age, especially the male population, lose the ability to hear higher frequencies. All the best equipment in the world won't help you if you can't hear it.

This is a very insightful post.
Ill be shopping for a good receiver

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Whale

Quote
dennycranium
I come from the consumer electronics business.

In short terms, your audio system is as good as its weakest link, or component.

If you have the blu-ray player, the disc, and play it through low or mid range equipment, you probably won't experience a discernible increase in sound quality.

Soundbars and surround systems are mainly for convenience.
Surround systems, do exactly that.
Surround you with well placed sound.
Not necessarily hi fidelity sound.
Soundbars are made to fit under your flat screen TV and you place a wireless (bluetooth) subwoofer in the corner.
They just sound better than your TV, not much else.

If you're looking for better sound without having to buy new discs, or a blu-ray player?

Purchase a good, HIGH-CURRENT, STEREO RECEIVER (or pre-amp/amplifier) with quality speakers.
You can use the discs you already own with better results. You DON'T need expensive speaker wire or rca cables.

Another thing to consider is your hearing. As we age, especially the male population, lose the ability to hear higher frequencies. All the best equipment in the world won't help you if you can't hear it.

This is a very insightful post.
Ill be shopping for a good receiver

To avoid having people mislead about surround sound,it is not necessarily low fidelity either.

One of the main advantages of Blu-ray Discs over DVD's is that Blu-ray Discs have the extra capacity to hold LOSSLESS , uncompressed surround sound DTS-HD Master Audio + Dolby TrueHD (most often in addition to HD video).

Blu-ray discs could also hold lossless raw PCM audio ..... in surround sound or in stereo. DVD's technically could also ..... but not much if there is also video ...... and they almost never do apart from DVD-Audio Discs.

5.1 Super Audio CD's are not low fidelity either. Again,like with Blu-ray discs the whole purpose of this format is / was high fidelity.

I don't know what "soundbars and wireless bluetooth subwoofers" have to do with the topic of Blu-ray Audio. I guess that it is correct to say that these particular types of equipment are mainly just to provide a marginal upgrade over most flat panel TV's built-in speakers.

It is unfair to lump surround sound systems as whole in with soundbars and wireless bluetooth subwoofers. Maybe the cheap surround sound systems in a box sold as a complete package. Obviously these are not examples of high fidelity equipment.

You could,for an example,go with four Totem "Element Earth" tower speakers,a Totem Element center channel speaker,and a Totem (wired) subwoofer or two and have them each driven by their own dedicated monoblock amplifiers with the sound processed through a dedicated pre-amplifier / processor (such as Anthem , Parasound , Classe , Arcam).

This is obviously an extreme example but, a "surround system in a box" sold at a big box store is also an extreme example in a bad way,at the opposite extreme end of the spectrum.

At its core,in terms of audio, 5.1 is simply an indication of the number of channels a sound recording is mixed into. It is no measure of sound quality one way or another.

Could be low fidelity (usually DVD , NetFlix). Could be high fidelity (usually Blu-ray , SA-CD). Benefits depend on equipment used.

The only Blu Ray audio only release I own at present is Allman Brothers at the Fillmore East. It sounds really good, very much like I remember hearing it in it's original vinyl release in 1971. (It also has other concert dates at the Fillmore). This is not some hipster endorsement of vinyl, just a reminder of how good the first couple plays of a disc sounded.

I would love to cut through all the clutter of these posts and know what blu ray audio Stones releases are worth listening to. They would have to be a vast improvement over the 2002 SACDs, which I really like. One of my all time favorite Stones CD is 'The Rolling Stones', their European intro album. It's on the London label and says 'CD is manufactured by PolyGram in Hanover, West Germany'.

Nothing has been done since 2002 to improve the '60's material. No improved remasters.

A Blu-ray Audio disc of any of the Stones' 1960's material (if there are any,I think that there are a couple) will sound the same as the SA-CD layer of a 2002 hybrid disc if both were set-up properly for playback.

There are a couple of cases where the '80's MFSL remasters / West German Decca CD's might be the best choice (Ruby Tuesday,Under My Thumb .... maybe 'AfterMath' as a whole ; the Japanese 'Hot Rocks 1' release).

The 2002 mix of "Stray Cat Blues" is a bit off. Personally,for "Stray Cat Blues" sometimes I turn to unofficial albums like RSVP. The 2002 hybrid SA-CD is the digital standard for the other 9 Beggars' Banquet tracks.

As far as Stones Blu-ray Audio discs worth listening to, ..... ANY from the post Abkco / Decca era are a safe bet assuming they are sourced from the 2011 transfers. I originally heard that 'Exile' was not but,apparently that was bad information. There are both SA-CD's and Blu-ray Audio discs of the 2011 transfers. Both are equally good options.

I purchased the GRRR! Blu Ray and much of it is excellent, especially the 60s stuff. Little Red Rooster in particular is revelatory.

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treaclefingers
I purchased the GRRR! Blu Ray and much of it is excellent, especially the 60s stuff. Little Red Rooster in particular is revelatory.

I'm sure that it is but, it's the same as the SA-CD layer from 2002 as far as I know.

Not to say that this is the situation in your case but,I am sure that most people who purchased the 2002 SA-CD / CD hybrid discs only ever listened to the regular CD layer(s).

Furthermore,of those who did access and play the SA-CD layer(s) ..... most probably did not have the correct type of a set-up with their equipment to be able to discern the full benefit of the SA-CD layer.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the '60's Blu-ray Audio Discs ..... Only that it might not be a required purchase IF you already own 2002 SA-CD hybrid discs of the same material in the same mix and master.

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Winning Ugly VXII

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treaclefingers
I purchased the GRRR! Blu Ray and much of it is excellent, especially the 60s stuff. Little Red Rooster in particular is revelatory.

I'm sure that it is but, it's the same as the SA-CD layer from 2002 as far as I know.

Not to say that this is the situation in your case but,I am sure that most people who purchased the 2002 SA-CD / CD hybrid discs only ever listened to the regular CD layer(s).

Furthermore,of those who did access and play the SA-CD layer(s) ..... most probably did not have the correct type of a set-up with their equipment to be able to discern the full benefit of the SA-CD layer.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the '60's Blu-ray Audio Discs ..... Only that it might not be a required purchase IF you already own 2002 SA-CD hybrid discs of the same material in the same mix and master.

well, your point about the sa-cd discs is a good one, and even though I have them I'm not sure that by listening to them through my sony blu ray player has given me access to that later. I understand it does, but how is one to know for sure. I can say the blu ray audio is awesome, so if it's the same as the sa-cd then that's great. I suppose I can do a side by side on Little Red Rooster which for me is the stand out 60's cut on GRRR, soundwise.

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kowalski

Quote
Spud

Yep, So many remasters over the years from so many source tapes of varying quality that it's almost a lottery !

Actually, not "so many remasters" are currently available.

For albums from 1964 to 1970 there's only one remaster since 2002. It's from remasters made by Bob Ludwig in 2002 and the same are used since then, should the albums be released on CD, SACD, vinyl, download...

For albums from 1971 to 1986, two remasters are currently available. Either the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters (regular CD's, latest vinyl releases, downloads), or either the 2011 so-called "flat transfers" (released only in Japan on SACD, and then on CD, with the exception of Exile on main St, released also on blu-ray worlwide).

For albums from 1989 to 2005, There are only the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters currently available.

Previously available:
- Bob Ludwig 1994/1998 remasters (albums from 1971 to 1991)
- ABKCO mid-nineties remasters (albums from 1964 to 1970)
- Mobile Fidelity remasters from the mid eighties (albums from 1964 to 1970) - those were released under the "London" label.


This means you can get all the Stones discography on CD remastered by Bob Ludwig (except for the releases from 1994 on). IMO that would be the most consistent choice.

You are forgetting that ABKCO's MONO box from last year, partly offered new remasters. Some of it is the same mastering, but there are also some new transfers (ie Route 66, Walking The Dog, Street Fighting Man (single version)) and plenty of new remasters of mono masters not previously released on cd.

It's a subjective choice, of course, but for me, Atermath, Between The Buttons and Satanic Majesties in mono are essential purchases.

Aside from this, the old London cd's (MoFi) is still the only releases that offers the UK debut album with the ufaded Tell Me and Aftermath and Between The Buttons does not, as opposed to the 2002 remasters, have the stereo perspective narrowed.

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Blueranger

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kowalski

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Spud

Yep, So many remasters over the years from so many source tapes of varying quality that it's almost a lottery !

Actually, not "so many remasters" are currently available.

For albums from 1964 to 1970 there's only one remaster since 2002. It's from remasters made by Bob Ludwig in 2002 and the same are used since then, should the albums be released on CD, SACD, vinyl, download...

For albums from 1971 to 1986, two remasters are currently available. Either the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters (regular CD's, latest vinyl releases, downloads), or either the 2011 so-called "flat transfers" (released only in Japan on SACD, and then on CD, with the exception of Exile on main St, released also on blu-ray worlwide).

For albums from 1989 to 2005, There are only the 2009 Stephen Marcussen remasters currently available.

Previously available:
- Bob Ludwig 1994/1998 remasters (albums from 1971 to 1991)
- ABKCO mid-nineties remasters (albums from 1964 to 1970)
- Mobile Fidelity remasters from the mid eighties (albums from 1964 to 1970) - those were released under the "London" label.


This means you can get all the Stones discography on CD remastered by Bob Ludwig (except for the releases from 1994 on). IMO that would be the most consistent choice.

You are forgetting that ABKCO's MONO box from last year, partly offered new remasters. Some of it is the same mastering, but there are also some new transfers (ie Route 66, Walking The Dog, Street Fighting Man (single version)) and plenty of new remasters of mono masters not previously released on cd.

It's a subjective choice, of course, but for me, Atermath, Between The Buttons and Satanic Majesties in mono are essential purchases.

Aside from this, the old London cd's (MoFi) is still the only releases that offers the UK debut album with the ufaded Tell Me and Aftermath and Between The Buttons does not, as opposed to the 2002 remasters, have the stereo perspective narrowed.

I thought the BTB version in the mono box was a fold-down?

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DandelionPowderman


I thought the BTB version in the mono box was a fold-down?

That's not what i understood.

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Whale

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DandelionPowderman


I thought the BTB version in the mono box was a fold-down?

That's not what i understood.

Correct. BTB in mono box is unique mix. There are totally about 40 songs with unique mono mastering in the box.

Out Of Our Heads (US/UK)
The Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man [unedited original mix]
[1]

Aftermath (UK/US)
4.Under My Thumb
5.Doncha Bother Me
6.Going Home
7.Flight 505
8.High And Dry
9.Out Of Time
10.It’s Not Easy
11.I Am Waiting
12.Take It Or Leave It
13.Think
14.What To Do
[11]

Between The Buttons (UK)
1.Yesterday’s Papers
2.My Obsession
3.Back Street Girl
4.Connection
5.She Smiled Sweetly
6.Cool, Calm & Collected
7.All Sold Out
8.Please Go Home
9.Who’ s Been Sleeping Here?
10.Complicated
11.Miss Amanda Jones
12.Something Happened To Me Yesterday
[12]

Flowers
1.Ruby Tuesday
5.Out Of Time
6.My Girl
11.Ride On, Baby
12.Sittin’ On A Fence
[5]

Their Satanic Majesties Request
1.Sing This All Together
2.Citadel
4.2000 Man
5.Sing This All Together (See What Happens)
8.Gomper
10.On With The Show
[6]

Beggars Banquet
1.Sympathy For The Devil
[1]

Stray Cats
As Tears Go By (Italian)
Honky Tonk Women
[2]

All other mono versions were issued previously in 2002.