After years of watching interviews and listening to his work, I have the impression that the guy (although he makes some stupid decisions) is extremely bright - possibly the smartest rock/pop star out there. That being said, shallowness seems to be a real interest of his - or at least the appearance of shallowness. It's interesting the way he plays with that concept. Philosophical surface-level living?

Macca is smart too...

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No doubt about Jaggar being a very intelligent guy. He is very well read, likes culture, and came from a solid middle class background with supportive parents.

I would say Pete Townshend, Macca, Harrison, and Lennon were/are very intelligent rockers...

Macca is extremely musical and melodical. "IQ" is bull because people can be smart in different ways, but we all still use it.

Interesting - if you believe in the rarity of genius, it's an amazing, amazing coincidence that Paul and John would both exist in Liverpool, England at the same time and find each other, and that Keith and Mick would overlap in the same way in London. Maybe genius isn't that rare...maybe it's by design. I'm always amazed that we had Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, and then nothing else as good over the following 200 years.

Mick's intelligent and focused, no doubt of that, but his thinking is not convoluted or complex. Read 'Off the Record' for lots of old interviews and quotes.

I think he sees life as being about a few very simple things - pleasure and pain, civilazation and barbarism, selfishness and humanity, artfulness and directness, etc.

What are the songs about?

Satisfaction - obstacles and desire
Get Off My Cloud - selfishness & dominance
Paint It Black - extreme cynicism
Under My Thumb - dominance & submission
Ruby Tuesday - freedom
Jumping Jack Flash - dominance
Steet Fighting Man - revolution & power
Sympathy for the Devil - deception
Honky Tonk Women - pleasure
Gimme Shelter - desperation and need
Midnight Rambler - sadism and rage
You Can't Always Get What You Want - obstacles and desire
Brown Sugar - dominance & submission

Chuck Berry is the smartest of them all.

I think Mick likes hedonism, but he is too smart to indulge in it. Many songs reflect a hedonistic streak but also an appreciation of religion an "high" ideals. His main "genious" is his ability to find a balance between the opposites in life, an ability he obviously shares with Macca. Keith and John on the other hand never had this ability.

You can add Robert Plant to this gang, too.

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Thommie
You can add Robert Plant to this gang, too.

There's a difference between being intelligent & being pretentious...

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Sleepy City

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Thommie
You can add Robert Plant to this gang, too.

There's a difference between being intelligent & being pretentious...

Yes, but you can also combine them...

I guess you realize that guys like Dylan and Lennon stands in a level where you not discuss wether they are intelligent or not...

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My guess is Mick understood quickly that in the rock field you can be intelligent as long as you don't show it. Otherwise you end up like Dylan who irked the press in the 60's.
Mick is a seducer : he always wants to have as many ppl as possible on his side.

This is what Mick always tried to avoid :

Mick's also a self confessed control freak ...so he tends to think before he opens his mouth.

[unlike certain other old reprobates ;^) ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-17 16:40 by Spud.

My guess is Mick understood quickly that in the rock field you can be intelligent as long as you don't show it. Otherwise you end up like Dylan who irked the press in the 60's.


In that case Bill Wyman must be the genious among all rock-stars...

Dylan did fine in this press-conference and he seemed to like it, at least a bit...

Well, Mick Jagger is not a dumb guy, but let's not overate his intelligence. Even the Ringo is so much smarter than Mick. Actually, Ringo alone is smarter, and of course, more talented than all the Rolling Stones members - living or death - including their mastermind Oldham.

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Thommie

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Sleepy City

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Thommie
You can add Robert Plant to this gang, too.

There's a difference between being intelligent & being pretentious...

Yes, but you can also combine them...

Fair comment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-17 15:00 by Sleepy City.

I think Bowie is way up there the best in terms of "intelligence".

I put in in quote marks do to the fact that I work in a research institute were there are a couple of smart guys (and girls) working on things beyond my comprehension.

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Thommie
You can add Robert Plant to this gang, too.

Is intelligence also in the eye of the beholder? Many people in this world would think he is an idiot for refusing to make a billion USD for playing a bunch of gigs,some think that's a good and respectable choice (never a smart one though).

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Corcovado
Well, Mick Jagger is not a dumb guy, but let's not overate his intelligence. Even the Ringo is so much smarter than Mick. Actually, Ringo alone is smarter, and of course, more talented than all the Rolling Stones members - living or death - including their mastermind Oldham.

?????????

it's very important we find out who the real smart guys are in the biz. to wit, i think there ought to be a mandatory iq test taken for all rockers. and the results should be explicitly revealed on all band artwork and tickets. if we're gonna blow money on these folks, we should at least be aware of the intelligence that goes into the music.

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StonesTod
it's very important we find out who the real smart guys are in the biz. to wit, i think there ought to be a mandatory iq test taken for all rockers. and the results should be explicitly revealed on all band artwork and tickets. if we're gonna blow money on these folks, we should at least be aware of the intelligence that goes into the music.

The more stupid ones tend to make the best rock & roll, as it comes from the heart instead of the mind.

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Sleepy City

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StonesTod
it's very important we find out who the real smart guys are in the biz. to wit, i think there ought to be a mandatory iq test taken for all rockers. and the results should be explicitly revealed on all band artwork and tickets. if we're gonna blow money on these folks, we should at least be aware of the intelligence that goes into the music.

The more stupid ones tend to make the best rock & roll, as it comes from the heart instead of the mind.

excellent point and this is not at all counter to my proposal.

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StonesTod

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Sleepy City

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StonesTod
it's very important we find out who the real smart guys are in the biz. to wit, i think there ought to be a mandatory iq test taken for all rockers. and the results should be explicitly revealed on all band artwork and tickets. if we're gonna blow money on these folks, we should at least be aware of the intelligence that goes into the music.

The more stupid ones tend to make the best rock & roll, as it comes from the heart instead of the mind.

excellent point and this is not at all counter to my proposal.

What? Going back to the proposal of us needing a drunken Jagger? A proposal that I full heartedly endorse btw.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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StonesTod

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Sleepy City

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StonesTod
it's very important we find out who the real smart guys are in the biz. to wit, i think there ought to be a mandatory iq test taken for all rockers. and the results should be explicitly revealed on all band artwork and tickets. if we're gonna blow money on these folks, we should at least be aware of the intelligence that goes into the music.

The more stupid ones tend to make the best rock & roll, as it comes from the heart instead of the mind.

excellent point and this is not at all counter to my proposal.

What? Going back to the proposal of us needing a drunken Jagger? A proposal that I full heartedly endorse btw.

that too. unfortunately drunkenness does not reduce the iq, but it's a good substitute for the real thing. no, i was referring to the idea of how iq's listed on all artwork and tickets. the lower the iq, the better chance for hq in the product.

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Send It To me
Macca is extremely musical and melodical. "IQ" is bull because people can be smart in different ways, but we all still use it.

Interesting - if you believe in the rarity of genius, it's an amazing, amazing coincidence that Paul and John would both exist in Liverpool, England at the same time and find each other, and that Keith and Mick would overlap in the same way in London. Maybe genius isn't that rare...maybe it's by design. I'm always amazed that we had Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, and then nothing else as good over the following 200 years.

Yes, I've pondered that one too: that John and Paul should meet. I am a lifelong Stones hardcore, but Mick and Keith meeting to me was a great combo; the yin and yang for the best rock'n roll partnership. Not just in the writing dept. Together they created one beautiful whole.
But John and Paul was more than that IMO. It may have taken one to wake the other up. But they can stand alone.
I don't really agree about the big 200 year gap you speak of. What about Wagner - Stravinsky - Gershwin - Coltrane - Miles Davis ?

Stravinsky is good, but isn't Beethoven.

The word "genius" gets tossed around like nothing these days. The Rolling Stones were "a collective genius" if that makes any sense. On their own, they were all very talented musicians. But that's it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-17 18:24 by stones78.

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stones78
The word "genius" gets tossed around like nothing these days. The Rolling Stones are "a collective genius" if that makes any sense. On their own, they were all very talented musicians. But that's it.

makes more sense if you do global replace of "are" with "were," but yeah....

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StonesTod
makes more sense if you do global replace of "are" with "were," but yeah....

Done.