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DandelionPowderman
Page can barely play on that album, and that country-tune is LZ at their nadir.

However, there is a lot of interesting input from Jones (in particular) and Plant that makes this album stand out in a different way. I like it, but mostly for its weirdness. The songs are hard to grasp as entities, but there is interesting stuff going on within them.

Jimmy was at such a low point during the recording of the album, deep in the depths of Heroin addiction.

He still managed to pull off some pretty neat solos though. In The Evening springs to mind, as does South Bound Suarez, some of the fastest stuff he's ever played is on that track. I'm Gonna Crawl also has some nice guitar work on it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that he can barely play on it. His parts themselves he plays fine, he just wasn't as creatively involved in the album due to his aforementioned heroin addiction.

Now if you want to talk bad playing, the 1980 'Over Europe' tour certainly has more than its fair share of it. Some of Page's playing is downright terrible. The tour has its high points though, shows such as Frankfurt and Zurich are very good. The last show in Berlin is worth listening to as it is the last time the four original members played together live before John Bonham's passing. It also has unique versions of Trampled Underfoot, Stairway and Whole Lotta Love. Kind of eerie in a way that the version of Stairway from that show is the longest ever performed.

It's certainly a stronger album than Emotional Rescue for mine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-17 13:11 by erad.

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erad

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DandelionPowderman
Page can barely play on that album, and that country-tune is LZ at their nadir.

However, there is a lot of interesting input from Jones (in particular) and Plant that makes this album stand out in a different way. I like it, but mostly for its weirdness. The songs are hard to grasp as entities, but there is interesting stuff going on within them.

Jimmy was at such a low point during the recording of the album, deep in the depths of Heroin addiction.

He still managed to pull off some pretty neat solos though. In The Evening springs to mind, as does South Bound Suarez, some of the fastest stuff he's ever played is on that track. I'm Gonna Crawl also has some nice guitar work on it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that he can barely play on it. His parts themselves he plays fine, he just wasn't as creatively involved in the album due to his aforementioned heroin addiction.

Now if you want to talk bad playing, the 1980 'Over Europe' tour certainly has more than its fair share of it. Some of Page's playing is downright terrible. The tour has its high points though, shows such as Frankfurt and Zurich are very good. The last show in Berlin is worth listening to as it is the last time the four original members played together live before John Bonham's passing. It also has unique versions of Trampled Underfoot, Stairway and Whole Lotta Love. Kind of eerie in a way that the version of Stairway from that show is the longest ever performed.

It's certainly a stronger album than Emotional Rescue for mine.

Parts of his playing was OK, but his sound, tone and phrasing were gone, imo.

I agree about the tour. Disagree strongly about ER.

I believe it was around this time that Page started experimenting with his new B-bender tele, and for better or worse it's all over In Through the Outdoor as well subsequent recordings such as the Death Wish II soundtrack and the Firm albums (as well as using it live throughout this era). It seems he put a lot of energy into squeezing something new out of this invention, while at the same time neglecting to play in his traditional style. It provides some interesting qualities, while at the same time it seems like something Spinal Tap would have been proud of.

THE GUITAR SHOW with Jimmy Page




_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

thanks Christiano for the link.
I really appreciate Robert's last LPs. I'm looking forward listening to the new one !

I've tried to like Zeppelin like 20,000 different times. Don't get it, what am I missing? Kashmir's a good song.

Robert Plant interview: 'Re-form Led Zeppelin? You can't ever really go back'

Neil McCormick, music critic
12 OCTOBER 2017

At 69, with a new album out, Robert Plant is as busy as ever – but Led Zeppelin may now be a thing of the past

Grey bearded, long haired, wrinkly and twinkly, at 69 Robert Plant still comports himself with a vivacious energy. On a street on Primrose Hill, his London stomping ground, he greets passers-by with friendly cheer, hailing a bald, stooped man many years his senior with a hearty “How are ya, kid?”

He stops in Sam’s Café, a retro diner, where (a waitress proudly tells me) Plant chose all the records on their vintage Rockola jukebox. Plant studies the playlist: Roy Orbison, Etta James, Ray Charles, and it seems to briefly give him pause. “How many voices are disappearing? The contributions to our time of listening and wonder,” he says with a typically poetic turn of phrase. “There’s always a trip going to say goodbye.”

Then he laughs. “Maybe that’s how people think about me! ‘F------ hell! Better go and see Planty! How much longer can he keep it up?’”

Plant has a new album out today, Carry Fire – a wonderful record from perhaps our most adventurous rocker. It’s with the same multi-instrumental line-up he has been working with, on and off, since 2005’s Mighty ReArranger. The Sensational Space Shifters craft a dazzling weave of psychedelic polyrhythmic grooves, meshing country, blues, folk and rock’n’roll with North African scales and beats, to which Plant contributes lyrics and melodies.

“I think I’m getting better,” he enthuses. “My ability to mould my frame of mind to the temperature, tempo and temperament of the music, it’s getting closer.” He describes the album as “a declaration of how best I am to myself, which is in flux. I mean, I love flux. When I open my car, I go ‘Yeah!’ To the Jurassic Coast or the Cambrian Coast? Is there water and a woman? I don’t know. And off I tootle.”

It’s also his “15th collection of songs since Bonzo passed away” as he puts it. The death of his oldest friend, drummer John Bonham, in 1980, brought an end to Led Zeppelin, perhaps Earth’s greatest rock group. Since then, his former musical partner, Jimmy Page, has released just five original albums, the last of those with Plant in 1998.

“To be a sought-after musical entity, first of all you’ve got to be good. Secondly, you’ve got to have some kind of allure. Thirdly, you have to keep your distance. So you should really only appear once every seven or eight years. Sadly, if I don’t have a gig, I’d be playing birthday parties, weddings and bar mitzvahs. I’ve got to do this. I feel the beat.” It is a theme he returns to throughout the interview, describing himself as “an ageing sexagenarian who’s still on the fly. I can’t give up this stuff because I love what I do.”

A lot of veteran musicians seem worn down by constant travelling, but Plant genuinely delights in the itinerant life. “It is not that I can’t settle, it’s that I shouldn’t. I have a fantastic family, and they give me leave to be what I am.”

Plant has four adult children, by two different partners, who are sisters. His romantic life has been complicated, to say the least. “With the amount of time that’s left before the long silence, I just keep light-footed. It doesn’t mean to say I’m taking advantage or in the middle of a romance or a tryst. On the contrary, I’m just in the middle of living.” He was involved with country singer Patty Griffin between 2012 and 2014 but the relationship foundered because he says he found it impossible to settle in Austin, Texas. “I couldn’t deal with celebrity. I became public property.” In England, he says, fans tend to respect his space. “In America, it was quite bludgeoning.”

He has other concerns about America, expressed on some of Carry Fire’s more sonically aggressive songs. New World and Carving Up The World Again look at the fear of immigration through a lens of history. “The lunatics have taken over the asylum,” says Plant. “But it’s an old story. It’s an ancient song. It’s not America, it’s a song of the Europeans and before them the Greeks and the African kings of Timbuktu. It’s time immemorial. We’re devils.”

It’s a theme he has addressed before: on Led Zeppelin’s Immigrant Song, from the 1970 album Led Zeppelin III, the immigrants were invading Vikings, wielding “the hammer of the Gods”.

“I have always been interested in history,” says Plant. “I think it softens up the message a bit, if you can put that context. I am not a social commentator but it feels like we are running out of love. There’s not much joy or hope. There’s an arrogance that’s not even following political doctrine. Someone has to put the brakes on.”

Plant rarely objects to talking about Led Zeppelin, and remains deeply proud of their achievements (“It was never simplistic, what I did with Jimmy and Zeppelin, there was always twist and turns, it was pretty, it had moves and grooves”), but there is a strong sense that it really is over for him. There’s none of the “you never know” teasing of possible reunions that often accompanies his public statements.

“You can’t ever really go back. It’s tough enough repeating yourself with something that’s a year old, never mind 49 years old. I’ve got to keep moving.” He speaks about musicians who won’t give up touring and who go through the motions with a tone of horror, although discreetly won’t give any names. “That look of abject boredom… I can’t imagine anything worse.”

His singing style has changed over the years. There’s a soft, whispery sensuousness to much of Carry Fire, with just hints of the fierce old roar. “The sound of an aggressive full-powered 150-volt piece of rock music has to be meant, the intention has to be absolutely spot on. Otherwise it’s a phoney thing. Right now, I like the sound of intimacy. I can still let it go, almost the same as I did years ago. I know how to do it. It doesn’t mean to say I gotta do it all the time.”

There are frequent mentions of age, the merciless march of time, his sense that he still has things to do while he can. He jokes of “waking up, looking in the mirror, and going ‘who the hell is that?’ It’s not only my dad, it might be my granddad too! So I guess vanity… it’s over!”

“You were the Golden God,” I say, alluding to his famous description of himself in his Led Zeppelin glory days.

“I still am,” he proclaims, lifting his head up, widening his shoulders, grey locks falling around him.

“So when did vanity end for you?”

“Oh I am just generalising for every other f-----,” laughs Plant. “I’m not done with that s--- yet!”

Carry Fire is released by Nonesuch today. A UK tour begins in Plymouth, on November 16 and continues through December; ?robertplant.com

[www.telegraph.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-17 17:55 by Cristiano Radtke.

I like Plants new album, but its time for Mick and Keith to have a talk with him about his legacy and Zeppelin! Keef and Mick are still doing it, why cant Plant and Page?
Arg!

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spikenyc
I like Plants new album, but its time for Mick and Keith to have a talk with him about his legacy and Zeppelin! Keef and Mick are still doing it, why cant Plant and Page?
Arg!

Because the drummer John Henry Bonham passed away and not even all of the money in the world could make them sell out there legacy except for the occasional benefit -Live Aid 1985, The 30 the anniversary of Atlantic Records 1988, and lastly the Passing of Atlantic Records boss Ahmett Ertagun Honor/Tribute concert in 2007 .That's it , there is not enough money for these gents to comprise there morals, beliefs and PRIDE to sell out for the quick buck.

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TheGreek

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spikenyc
I like Plants new album, but its time for Mick and Keith to have a talk with him about his legacy and Zeppelin! Keef and Mick are still doing it, why cant Plant and Page?
Arg!

Because the drummer John Henry Bonham passed away and not even all of the money in the world could make them sell out there legacy except for the occasional benefit -Live Aid 1985, The 30 the anniversary of Atlantic Records 1988, and lastly the Passing of Atlantic Records boss Ahmett Ertagun Honor/Tribute concert in 2007 .That's it , there is not enough money for these gents to comprise there morals, beliefs and PRIDE to sell out for the quick buck.

Plant is and always has been the only hold out - Page and Jones (and Bonham jr.) would jump at the chance if given the opportunity.
In fact they were all set to move forward after the 2007 show, but as far as Plant was concerned it was a one off only.

To paraphrase Page: "We rehearsed for almost a whole year, and my thinking was it would for more than just the one show".
Page and Jones even went so far as to audition a replacement (although they wouldn't use the Zeppelin name) including Steven Tyler (?!), but it was never to be.

Alter Bridge’s Myles Kennedy: The Day I Auditioned For Led Zeppelin

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Because Mick and Keith play for money and the ego stroke of thousands of people cheering for them,even if they have to play every night standing next to someone they wouldn’t even go to dinner with after the show.
Plants not wired that way and it’s not just because Bonzo was his friend but the “Zep” without him is laughable.
I saw one of those Page/Plant shows and left after 45 minutes,sorry guys but seeing them without Bonham is like seeing the stones without Mick,if you don’t get that you’re not listening closely enough.

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spikenyc
I like Plants new album, but its time for Mick and Keith to have a talk with him about his legacy and Zeppelin! Keef and Mick are still doing it, why cant Plant and Page?
Arg!

It's quite simple...

"We wish it to be known, that the loss of our dear friend and the deep respect we have for his family, together with the deep sense of undivided harmony felt by ourselves and our manager, have led us to decide that we could not continue as we were."

Led Zeppelin
December 4, 1980

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Jah Paul

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spikenyc
I like Plants new album, but its time for Mick and Keith to have a talk with him about his legacy and Zeppelin! Keef and Mick are still doing it, why cant Plant and Page?
Arg!

It's quite simple...

"We wish it to be known, that the loss of our dear friend and the deep respect we have for his family, together with the deep sense of undivided harmony felt by ourselves and our manager, have led us to decide that we could not continue as we were."

Led Zeppelin



December 4, 1980

Thank you!! It’s as if people don’t understand what they are hearing,Bonham was the best drummer in the history of rock and roll.you don’t just have someone “fill in” it would be like saying well this guy can dance and his voice sounds a little like Jaggers,we’ll have him front the Stones”
To many of us it’s like if in the 70s you took Mitch and Noel and a guy kinda like Jimi and said “we’re putting the old experience back together” Some people are irreplaceable and when they’re gone that’s the death blow-it’s over.face it.

Do you think that LZ will release more full shows from the archive as albums and videos? I had kinda expected them to do so when the remastered catalog occurred. I'll gladly dump my bootlegs for legitimate releases, especially for shows like Earl's Court '75, anything from the US '77 tour, and Knebworth '79.

Also, yes, Steven Tyler did an audition for the proposed project that Myles Kennedy was the front-runner for. It caused conflict between him and Joe Perry because he up and left planned writing/rehearsals for one of the many false starts of Music From Another Dimension, and in fact hadn't been seriously considered by Jimmy and John Paul. Steven had to basically hound his way into the audition. When asked why he isn't writing with Joe, he says "Joe doesn't want to work with me right now." First day he's a no show, but they postpone the two-day sessions to start proper for the next day. Second day, he's late, suffering from a heavy cold and hampered by his increasingly out of control painkillers addiction for his feet issues. His voice is awful, and the medication brings about a string of alarming lyrical lapses, shocking for someone who is a known Zep-o-phile who knows the material like the back of his hand. This rehearsal hits all the music gossip sites, referring to it as "shambolic", though they mostly don't mention what happens 24 hours later. The next day, Steven rallies and is impressive. He is stunned when Jimmy is like "OK, Steven, you can go now. We weren't going to use you anyways. We didn't even invite you, you invited yourself." Before he leaves, Steven says that the songs Jimmy, John Paul and Jason have worked up are not impressive, and offers material he and Marti Frederiksen have done. Jimmy just says something to the effect of "don't miss your flight." Steven then recasts the audition experience as that it was his decision to walk away. This becomes a bone of contention leading up to the fallout of Aerosmith's 2009 tour.

I do wonder what the collaboration with Myles Kennedy would've been like, and what songs had been written. Robert has said he was surprised that it didn't happen, and expected them to go through with the project. At least, it would've been a sign of Jimmy being creative in some capacity, since the long-promised new solo album and tour is no closer to fruition. At least Jimmy does accept in his heart that Robert is done with Zep and simply won't come back to it for any reason.

Robert Plant, Great interview this morning with Howard Stern.

[www.youtube.com]

I feel badly for the LZ guys that their great legacy gets tainted with these topics. Even the title of this thread. It's weird: I am a MUCH bigger fan of the individuals of the band, than with several of the overall band efforts. It is their early albums that I have the most issues with. Once they embraced the Hammer of the Gods they got hot.
But especially Plant, and in a quieter way JP Jones have had stellar post LZ careers. Plant pursues much of what I admire in art and life.

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Palace Revolution 2000
I feel badly for the LZ guys that their great legacy gets tainted with these topics. Even the title of this thread. It's weird: I am a MUCH bigger fan of the individuals of the band, than with several of the overall band efforts. It is their early albums that I have the most issues with. Once they embraced the Hammer of the Gods they got hot.
But especially Plant, and in a quieter way JP Jones have had stellar post LZ careers. Plant pursues much of what I admire in art and life.

Even with these topics their legacy isn't tainted. There's nothing to feel bad for them for. They are still beloved and many of us, at least myself, make jokes about them stealing while in the same hour will blast a Zeppelin record and love every second of it. If you're a fan of a band, you should be able to make fun of them. The same way we make fun of the Stones. Their legacy is secure, literally zero reason to feel bad for them. They are millionaires and beloved by everyone.

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spikenyc
I like Plants new album, but its time for Mick and Keith to have a talk with him about his legacy and Zeppelin! Keef and Mick are still doing it, why cant Plant and Page?
Arg!

for starters the drummer is dead. next up plant sang about 2 octaves higher than jagger on most songs

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keefriffhard4life
Plant sang about 2 octaves higher than jagger on most songs

Yeah that's what makes LZ so horrible...

Zeppelin was a heavy act, a summer storm.

Bonham was a great drummer who brought the thunder for sure.

Jimmy Page brought the lightning.

Zeppelin was so good and on top of it they ended exactly when they were supposed to. Perfect band all the way around. Class, quality, virtuosic musicianship.

Sadly their last official album of new material is their worst. (ITTOD)

One can only wonder "what if", but according to Page, he and John Bonham were talking about the next album being heavy and guitar driven vs. being dominated by synthesizer...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball
Sadly their last official album of new material is their worst. (ITTOD)

One can only wonder "what if", but according to Page, he and John Bonham were talking about the next album being heavy and guitar driven vs. being dominated by synthesizer...

Would have been nice to see where they went, and Bonham's death was possibly a blessing in disguise cause yes they were going down in quality. I don't think their last album was their worst. Their two post Graffiti albums were a massive step down, but I thought Presence was way worse than ITTOD. ITTOD had In The Evening, South Bound Saurez, Fool In The Rain, I'm Gonna Crawl. The only song I don't like is Caroselumbra which is their worst song in their catalogue, but the rest of the album is more than passable, if not classic. Presence on the other hand has two great songs in Achilles and Fault and the rest being very subpar (with Tea For One being a straight, worse, rehash of Since I've Been Loving You). I know many Zep fans for some reason have found a lot of love for that album but I never understood it. I find ITTOD far better and Presence easily the worst, but yes they ended at the right time that I don't ever harp on those as much as I would had they continued. They didn't have the time to get bad. Coda showed they really had nothing left in the tank, despite Wearing And Tearing being a personal fav of mine. But the rest of the album is complete trash for me. We're Gonna Groove is good but also 10 years old by that point and not "new".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-18 18:53 by RollingFreak.

Highlights here from Plants interview with Howard Stern yesterday:

[www.jambase.com]

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RollingFreak
Bonham's death was possibly a blessing in disguise

John Bonham dying was a blessing in disguise?
Sounds a bit insensitive and in bad taste.

No need to get in a debate over which album is better or worse - to each his own.
That said, it's a proven fact that nine out of ten Zeppelin fans think ITTOD is their worst album.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-18 19:02 by Hairball.

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Hairball

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RollingFreak
Bonham's death was possibly a blessing in disguise

John Bonham dying was a blessing in disguise?
Sounds a bit insensitive and in bad taste.

No need to get in a debate over which album is better or worse - to each his own.
That said, it's a proven fact that nine out of ten Zeppelin fans think ITTOD is their worst album.

And nine out of 10 Zep fans are wrong ! Also, not to get into a debate, but I don't know how you find a "proven fact" of what you're saying.

EDIT: OK, I'll admit most lists do rank it dead last, which I still think is wrong, but emboldens your point. I still think "proven opinion" as opposed to fact is more correct, but its hard to discredit you when everyone else is saying the same thing. Having said that people say it about Their Satanic Majesties Request as well and other albums, and are wrong there too, but again, if its popular I can't refute it.

Its not meant as insensitive. Thats why I specifically put "possibly". I consider him the greatest drummer. Better than Moon, better than all the others. But any death in that band, or just something to get them to stop, was probably better because the quality of material was getting worse. Maybe they would have rebounded, but being able to end it and look back on it all pretty fondly is arguably better them continuing on and getting worse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-18 19:26 by RollingFreak.

Highly doubt it could have gotten much worse than ITTOD. As I previously said, Page and Bonham were talking about the next album being heavier and guitar driven - back to their strengths.

From a Guitar World interview in 1998:

GW: I thought maybe you were losing your enthusiasm for the band.

Page: Never. Never. In fact, Bonzo [i.e. drummer John Bonham] and I had already started discussing plans for a hard-driving rock album after that. We both felt that In Through the Out Door was a little soft. I was not really very keen on "All My Love". I was a little worried about the chorus. I could just imagine people doing the wave and all of that. And I thought, 'That is not us. That is not us.' In its place it was fine, but I would not have wanted to pursue that direction in the future.

Page in 2004: "...we wanted, after In Through the Out Door, to make something hard-hitting and riff-based again. Of course, we never got to make that album."

Robert Plant in 1990: "In Through The Out Door wasn't the greatest thing in the world, but at least we were trying to vary what we were doing, for our own integrity's sake.
Of all the [Led Zeppelin] records, it's interesting but a bit sanitised because we hadn't been in the clamour and chaos for a long time".

In other words, he doesn't think highly of it either when compared to the other Zeppelin albums.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Again, they are wrong lol. The Stones hate Between The Buttons for the most part and they are wrong. Same with Satanic. Presence is their worst but for some reason people look back on it fondly. I don't know when that started, but its only grown in years. Maybe I'm wrong, thats possible, but aside from Achilles and Nobody's Fault no one really mentions the album that much. I think the songs on ITTOD is much stronger. If Wearing And Tearing is an indication where they could have gone its sad, although questionable if they would have actually been able to sustain that.

But yeah, I don't trust the band or fans always with what they say cause a lot of the times they are wrong or have specific memories from that time that taint the album. But thats why everyone has their own opinions.

You can be as completely cynical as you want distrusting and doubting band members "because they are wrong" according to you - nobody's forcing anything on you, but it sort of borders on denial of the truth.

As for your comment on Presence: "..for some reason people look back on it fondly. I don't know when that started, but its only grown in years".

The reason is because it's a great album, and the praise started the day of it's release.
Maybe not for you, but perhaps you had to be there in the '70's to fully understand and/or appreciate it.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Lol not alone, not cynical, realistic:

"OK, I'm going to be honest here - I find the new-age obsession with 'Presence' a little nauseating."
[rateyourmusic.com]


"The album contains one of the band’s greatest guitar epics (“Achilles’ Last Stand”) and a few good hooks, but ultimately lacks the variety and experimentation that elevates the band’s best albums."
[www.cheatsheet.com]


"We know this is where some readers will start screaming “Sacrilege!” but ‘Presence,’ among all of Led Zeppelin’s widely worshiped musical monoliths (cover art pun intended), feels just a little bit wanting to our ears."
[loudwire.com]


"There seems to sometimes be a running argument that Presence is this massively underrated and wrongfully maligned Led Zeppelin album, the one most suited for critical reevaluation and induction into the pantheon alongside the band's other work."
[www.stereogum.com]


"Dismiss this album and you’re missing out on ‘Achilles Last Stand’. That’s about it, though, although Bonham’s drumming on ‘Nobody’s Fault But Mine’ still knocks most sticksmen out the park. Stephen Davies (author of Hammer Of The Gods) says its his favourite, such is the divisive beauty of Led Zeppelin."
[www.nme.com]