Interesting article. There's some other music stuff beyond it in the scroll. Is rock music done as we know it? I listen to such a mix of musics today that it's hard to say what's what. I guess my listenings mix today is like free form radio in the 1960s, early 1970s. I hate for my ears to be bored.

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He makes a lot of interesting points, thanks for sharing. But his definition of rock (which includes everyone from Leonard Cohen to Phil Collins) seems so broad as to be meaningless. And when he ends by saying that rock was rescued once before by the Beatles (regarded at the time as the opposite of rock and roll as represented by Elvis etc.) but that this time it may really be dead (a surprise to those of us enjoying new music on a regular basis), then again, the point is so over-generalized it doesn't mean much. I think a better question would be "Is the concept of musical genre dead?" and if the answer is yes, that would be a very good thing.

Terrible writing. I'm not even sure what he or she is trying to say, it's a string of unrelated editorialing about various topics without coherently tying them together. There is also a lack of historical perspective. No, music is not more diverse and multi-cultural now, it's more balkanized than ever. The people buying the music labeled country music (and no, it's not "woke" as this lousy writer claims it is) are not the same as people buying rap.

Rolling Stones is still there selling big times - big come back sales-wise. Still huge crowd on concerts worldwide. Who would have imagines Stones No 1. worldwide.

Metallica, Macca, Clapton, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Berry, Roger Waters, David Gilmour and "you name it" are still there publishing new albums, selling out concerts.

Desert Trip concert with Stones, Young, Macca, Waters, Who, Dylan - huge crowd, sold out at high prices.

New Rock bands are emerging, old rock bands are still there, medium term bavnds like U2, Foo Fighters are touring / publishing new albums.

Off course, some old artist are leaving us (example - David Bowie), but that's is life - we can not expect them to live forever. But new ones replace the old ones in a new version.

We can not expect everything to be the same as in 1960-1970'ies!!!! Cell phones, computers change - why not rock music, as long as the feel, work and spirit is there.

Bieber, Collins etc is not Rock. All respect to their music and contributions, but that is more Pop and good for people who like Pop as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-01-01 01:31 by mtaylor.

Here's some rock/country/beat music!!

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I liked the article...except for the opinion that he blames baby boomers for electing Trump. It wasn't us...at least those that grew up with and liking classic rock. We'd never vote for a con man like him...'Won't Get Fooled Again'...

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palerider22
I liked the article...except for the opinion that he blames baby boomers for electing Trump. It wasn't us...at least those that grew up with and liking classic rock. We'd never vote for a con man like him...'Won't Get Fooled Again'...

I guess people from the Rust-Belt (except NY / Illinois) were decisive in who was elected as president in US. They like Rock music very much. I guess they thought Hillary was too boring.... ... they left the meetings when she "hit the stage".. A more charismatic person would have won big times over Trump.

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mtaylor
Rolling Stones is still there selling big times - big come back sales-wise. Still huge crowd on concerts worldwide. Who would have imagines Stones No 1. worldwide.

Metallica, Macca, Clapton, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Berry, Roger Waters, David Gilmour and "you name it" are still there publishing new albums, selling out concerts.

Desert Trip concert with Stones, Young, Macca, Waters, Who, Dylan - huge crowd, sold out at high prices.

New Rock bands are emerging, old rock bands are still there, medium term bavnds like U2, Foo Fighters are touring / publishing new albums.

Off course, some old artist are leaving us (example - David Bowie), but that's is life - we can not expect them to live forever. But new ones replace the old ones in a new version.

We can not expect everything to be the same as in 1960-1970'ies!!!! Cell phones, computers change - why not rock music, as long as the feel, work and spirit is there.

Bieber, Collins etc is not Rock. All respect to their music and contributions, but that is more Pop and good for people who like Pop as well.

Agree with the gist of your post, but Desert Trip never sold out as was the initial claim.
Stockpiles of tickets were hoarded (presumably by Desert Trip, Inc.) to be sold on the secondary market at even higher prices than the outrageous face value prices. The strategy backfired though. A whole slew of tix were officially released about a month before the show. Then discounts started happening with tix being sold below face value through Costco. The price drops didn't stop there - eventually all tickets in all price categories on stubhub were reduced to the minimum. Pit tickets that were originally/officially priced at apprx. $1500 became available as low as $250 in the days leading up to each weekend. Whether or not it was Desert Trip who was behind this scheme - it was far cry from ever being sold out .

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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mtaylor

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palerider22
I liked the article...except for the opinion that he blames baby boomers for electing Trump. It wasn't us...at least those that grew up with and liking classic rock. We'd never vote for a con man like him...'Won't Get Fooled Again'...

I guess people from the Rust-Belt (except NY / Illinois) were decisive in who was elected as president in US. They like Rock music very much. I guess they thought Hillary was too boring.... ... they left the meetings when she "hit the stage".. A more charismatic person would have won big times over Trump.

Elections are won and lost on television that's why he was always going to beat her.

Nate

Every generation needs music they can call their own.

If their parents hate it, so much the better.

Rap and hip hop are the rebellious young people's Rolling Stones.

Pop and R&B (not really) are today's commercial hits like the mindless AM hits of years ago a la Tommy James and the Shondells and the like.

Remember The Who sang......"In the old days, when a young man was a strong man, everybody would step back when a young man walked by".

The young hip hop and rap fans don't want you to like their music, they want you to step back when they walk by.

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marianna
Terrible writing. I'm not even sure what he or she is trying to say, it's a string of unrelated editorialing about various topics without coherently tying them together. There is also a lack of historical perspective. No, music is not more diverse and multi-cultural now, it's more balkanized than ever. The people buying the music labeled country music (and no, it's not "woke" as this lousy writer claims it is) are not the same as people buying rap.

I think his point is made 'sort of' in the last paragraph, that rock is indeed dead. But that it's maybe not a bad thing. ( His view) I dont agree with many things he says. What the call "Country" today, is more and more right-wing-rock.

Rock music is done. It is what it is. Yes, there are smaller bands out there still doing it and doing it well, but as for it being mainstream it is done. At least for now. And thats fine. It survived and prospered for a very long time. But no, someone like Gene Simmons saying "Rock is dead" is not wrong. Its blunt, but its the truth. No one cares when Metallica or any of these other big rock bands put out things anymore. They like the name, but today's music is dance, its rap and its pop. And country of course which is probably killing it all.

Don't get hung up about it. What happened to rock? It was pretty big for 40 years and now its more a "name" than anything else and anything new thats good is underground. Just the facts. Maybe it comes back, and I certainly don't think its become as niche as jazz. But its no longer mainstream. I'm not sure why some still defend it is.

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RollingFreak
Rock music is done. It is what it is. Yes, there are smaller bands out there still doing it and doing it well, but as for it being mainstream it is done. At least for now. And thats fine. It survived and prospered for a very long time. But no, someone like Gene Simmons saying "Rock is dead" is not wrong. Its blunt, but its the truth. No one cares when Metallica or any of these other big rock bands put out things anymore. They like the name, but today's music is dance, its rap and its pop. And country of course which is probably killing it all.

Don't get hung up about it. What happened to rock? It was pretty big for 40 years and now its more a "name" than anything else and anything new thats good is underground. Just the facts. Maybe it comes back, and I certainly don't think its become as niche as jazz. But its no longer mainstream. I'm not sure why some still defend it is.

But like the writer of the article--how are you defining rock? You also mention categories like dance, rap, pop, country, not to mention "underground" and jazz--it seems to me than none of those labels apply anymore. There are about seven different kinds of country, just for starters. Hip hop albums have rock singers guesting, country singers make pop albums. It's just a different musical world. Which is great!

"No one cares when Metallica or any of these other big rock bands put out things anymore. They like the name, but today's music is dance, its rap and its pop. And country of course which is probably killing it all...".

RollingFreak, I think we have to see the facts, firstly. Last Matallica's album recently topped Global Chart and has sold 1.4 million copies during 5 weeks. "Blue and Lonesome" sells even better (slightly better, but better). I don't think that people are buying albums, especially in the era of massive downloading, just because they like the name of the Rolling Stones, Mettalica, RHCP, Coldplay, etc. I suppose they like the music too.


"Rock is dead"... I'm hearing this clishe since middle 70s. The same "drama", over and over again. But I don't see any real tragedy around. The main difference, between the past and the present, IMO has to do with the whole "map" of the music. Once upon a time there were a few kinds of music. Rock, pop, pop-rock and the range of black music. Now there are much more. Consider ethnic, different styles of R&B, electro music, different mixes... There is a real medley. And into the concoction the whole rock range keeps a good enough part.

In addition, bands like Stones, RHCP or Metallica have audiences almost everywhere. But there are some rap and some country musicians, extremely popular in North America and almost unknown in the Europe. Sometimes you can see on the Global Chart a hip hop album selling 150,000 copies in the US and 7,000 in the rest of the planet, during it's first week...

Yes, Beyonce and Rihanna are monster sellers today. Like... Osmond Brothers for a few years in the early 70s and Travolta in the late 70s. Like Spice Girls and Backstreet Boys in the 90s (both almost forgotten, today). So what? On the other hand Beyonce and Rihanna, as live acts, need two lives to attract a number of people similar to the audiences, which have attended the Stones gigs during the 21th century...

Rock will never die. It has just moved from it's place of popular prominence as it's artists and fans have gotten older. Jazz was once the music of pop culture but is no more. However, jazz still exists. Same thing is happening with rock as other genres take over the popular demographic. It happens. Just watched "New Year's Rockin' Eve" last night and it's obvious that rap and hip-hop, etc. are the current "thing." Despite the title of the show, I saw nothing that resembled rock.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

The big difference between jazz in 60s - 70s and rock today, it's that rock still has a remarkable audience. I'm 56 years old. I don't remember jazz albums topping the charts, when was teenager. Not even a few, not even sporadically. I don't remember any young people going to jazz performances. But in the last years I have seen a notable number of young people at Stones or Bruce's stadium gigs- to mention just two acts from the "old guard" of the rock. When rock was dominating, everything older seemed and sounded obsoleted. That's not exactly what happened to rock music in the last decades...

Instead of crying for "the death of rock" for the 150, 000th time, we could celebrate the global success of "Blue and Lonesome"...

Yes, rock still has an audience. Its why Guns N Roses were able to play stadiums in the past year. A band thats effectively done nothing in the last 25 years still has a major audience. In that way, rock will never die, and it really does seem to have endured and maybe will continue to endure more than most if not all genres. I don't know why, but obviously it has. Having said that, in pop culture, in the mainstream, no one cares about new rock. People enjoy legacy acts. They like what they know, and what has previously been a part of their lives. That still obviously sells well and has an audience. Newer rock compared to newer country, newer pop, newer rap... all of those are on the rise while newer rock is on the decline. And like I said, I think thats fine. Rock had a good run. I still don't quite see the argument otherwise. Legacies sell well and rock still has an audience. But there are no new rock bands taking up the mantle (and if they are they are a pipsqueak from what we've had), and rock is not what is fashionable today to the general public for the most part. Its just the truth.

Rock is dead for the mainstream audiences, yes rock bands can sell a lot of tickets, album sales could be great for some acts but on radio no one plays rock music, on streaming no rock song can make the Top 100, rock songs were still on top of the singles chart until 15-20 years ago but the mainstream audiences are into rap, pop or country now. People over 40-45 and baby boomers are driving album sales, people under 30-35 could care less about physical product, that's a old man thing, its all about downloads and streaming, in 3-5 years from now about 80-90% of music will be streaming.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-01-01 18:48 by georgelicks.

"On radio no one plays rock music...", georgelicks says.

With respect, but I 'm a bit tired of this "no one"... "No one cares about Metallica or other big rock bands", "on radio no one plays rock music"... As for radio, I suppose it varies from country to country. My country, Greece, is not a typical "rock-land", of course. But among 31 radio stations (political, sportive and musical) of Athens area , two stations which basically are playing rock music, classic and new, have very good ratings and positions. # 6 and # 7 (and 7,7%, 7,6%, when No 1 station only has 11,1%). A third one that plays rock and pop ballads is # 8 (6%). One more that plays mixed pop, folk and rock hits, from 70s to nowadays, is #10 (5,8%). In addition, I often hear rock songs between political comments and conversations, on other stations.

"The mainstream audiences are into rap, pop or country now", says georgelicks. Sometimes I have the impression that we are often considering the US market as the market worldwide. I wonder, how many people "are dying" for country music in Europe? Also, I think we should talk more about the definition of meaning "mainstream audience"... I know young people being into Shakira and RHCP at the same time (yes, both, era of medley as I said). Are they somewhere between "mainstream" and something...very strange?

Oh, yes, there aren't rock tracks on the top of singles chart. But I think this has partly to do with the fact that people who likes rock music have more interest for albums, not for particular "hits", singles. There are examples from Stones history, for that. In 1986 "Harlem Shuffle" was a successful single, but "Dirty Work" couldn't be consider as a commercially successful album. In 1994 "Voodoo Lounge" became a big commercial success, without any successful single.

And, please, don't underrate the fact that many rock bands and rock artists remain very popular, as live acts...

Nonsense that "Rock is Dead".

[www.q107.com]

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georgelicks
people under 30-35 could care less about physical product, that's a old man thing,

Vast numbers of people in that age demographic are responsible for the resurgence of vinyl as a medium.

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Aquamarine

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georgelicks
people under 30-35 could care less about physical product, that's a old man thing,

Vast numbers of people in that age demographic are responsible for the resurgence of vinyl as a medium.

Cause its hipster and fashionable. No one cares about physical music in that demographic. I'm that demographic and I know no one that truly buys vinyl for vinyl. It "looks nice" or vintage. No one has vinyl because they actually care about it. The other people that have it are those like my father, who literally can't tell the difference but buys vinyl now because he remembers buying vinyl and now its available again. Its basically money in the toilet.

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RollingFreak

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Aquamarine

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georgelicks
people under 30-35 could care less about physical product, that's a old man thing,

Vast numbers of people in that age demographic are responsible for the resurgence of vinyl as a medium.

Cause its hipster and fashionable. No one cares about physical music in that demographic. I'm that demographic and I know no one that truly buys vinyl for vinyl. It "looks nice" or vintage. No one has vinyl because they actually care about it. The other people that have it are those like my father, who literally can't tell the difference but buys vinyl now because he remembers buying vinyl and now its available again. Its basically money in the toilet.

Hipsters and Dads.
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[www.whathifi.com]
[www.theguardian.com]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-01-02 00:14 by Deltics.

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laertisflash
"On radio no one plays rock music...", georgelicks says.

With respect, but I 'm a bit tired of this "no one"... "No one cares about Metallica or other big rock bands", "on radio no one plays rock music"... As for radio, I suppose it varies from country to country. My country, Greece, is not a typical "rock-land", of course. But among 31 radio stations (political, sportive and musical) of Athens area , two stations which basically are playing rock music, classic and new, have very good ratings and positions. # 6 and # 7 (and 7,7%, 7,6%, when No 1 station only has 11,1%). A third one that plays rock and pop ballads is # 8 (6%). One more that plays mixed pop, folk and rock hits, from 70s to nowadays, is #10 (5,8%). In addition, I often hear rock songs between political comments and conversations, on other stations.

We're talking about MAINSTREAM markets as UK, US, Germany, Japan, etc.
You won't find a single rock song on their charts, B&L is #1 for 4th week in a row in the Netherlands, yet no single from the album made the Top 100 on the singles chart, the album is a hot seller (mostly physical) but no song from it is being played on the radio or streamed, the same in the UK, the album is among the 20 best selling albums of 2016, but no track from it made the UK singles Top 200. ABB has sold about half of B&L in the UK, yet 2 of their singles were Top 40 hits, even Streets Of Love reached the Top 15.
Singles and albums are two different markets nowadays, more than ever before.

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RollingFreak

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Aquamarine

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georgelicks
people under 30-35 could care less about physical product, that's a old man thing,

Vast numbers of people in that age demographic are responsible for the resurgence of vinyl as a medium.

Cause its hipster and fashionable. No one cares about physical music in that demographic. I'm that demographic and I know no one that truly buys vinyl for vinyl. It "looks nice" or vintage. No one has vinyl because they actually care about it. The other people that have it are those like my father, who literally can't tell the difference but buys vinyl now because he remembers buying vinyl and now its available again. Its basically money in the toilet.

I know a big number of pople (including myself) buying vinyl as a fashionable item, but they never play it, hell even you can buy the vinyl on Amazon and get a free MP3 copy for your phone, pendrive, PC.
It's a way to support an artist, I get their music on FLAC, MP3 but at the same time I'm buying vinyl as a decorative item, I'm done with CD's.

All I can say is, we all know very different people. The people I know--of all age demographics--who buy vinyl, buy it to play, and spend hours arguing about the different sound qualities of different pressings, etc. Plus I also know a lot of collectors who collect variants, but still have copies that they actually play. I've never met anybody who buys vinyl just to look at, which seems both pointless and expensive. And bizarre, to be honest.

Edited to add that the reason we buy it is precisely because to us it sounds better. Hipness doesn't enter into it. As you would know if you could meet a random group of these folks. Some are hipsters, some are nerds, some are just regular people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-01-02 04:36 by Aquamarine.

I've purchased and collected vinyl since 1970 when I was 7 years old , and still do - my collection is enormous. I'm not a hipster or a nerd, just someone who appreciates vinyl and everything that goes with it.
The sound quality, the cover art, the process of listening to entire sides from start to finish, etc. There may be some nostalgia and sentimentality involved, but I really don't see it that way as it's something I've always done.
With that said, I refused to purchase the latest 10" Ride em on Down single on vinyl as it was way overpriced and had no B-side. If the price drops to about $10 or $15 max, I might think about it.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Of course not everyone who buys vinyl is doing it for a pointless reason. Yes, I'm not surprised that many people here know others who are collectors and audiophiles, so its not as odd for them to be buying vinyl. They've probably always hunted down the alternative options to buy music. I would assume they aren't your standard everyday music person, or maybe they are and I'm completely wrong.

Just saying, the people I know (being of that demographic) that are under 30 rarely actually CARE about the records they are buying. I've never quite understood the idea of "new" vinyl anyway. To most people, it will sound identical to the CD or MP3 download you'll get. Which ties right into the fact that even the people that enjoy buying vinyl probably can't hear the difference. My father just got a new turntable about 2 years ago that is actually of some quality, which sparked a boom in his record buying. Good for him, although I'm happy he's fully aware of the fact and will joke "gee, it sounds warmer doesn't it?" Cause he can't tell. Neither can I for that matter, but we are both not meaning that sentence when we say it and he's buying records for the aesthetic. Which is fine, he enjoys it and he actually plays them. But my point being is there are a ton of people that buy records and don't even care, and then a large fraction of the ones that DO care can't even actually hear a difference. They just know there is because everyone has said it. But the amount of people that actually buy and care about vinyl I think is very small, and believe its confined to mostly audiophiles and collectors. Again, very possible I'm wrong, but its what I've seen.

And rock is dead lol .

Again, I assume it depends on the people you know. The ones I know are very knowledgable about vinyl and genuinely do hear a difference (as do I), which is the only reason they buy it. Otherwise they'd save a lot of money and stick to mp3s (which I also have for use on my iPod, etc.). But I take your word for it that there are all these people out there who buy vinyl without caring about it. More fool them, though!

And I honestly think what is dead is the old definitions and genres of music. Categories are so fluid these days, no form of music is dead.

Whatever happened to rock music probably has a lot to do with the automated society we're living in. Everything is programmed now. Do people play guitars anymore? All the problems go back to digital. You've gotta have real people in there whose hands hurt from playing the guitar. Too much of the new rock, pop, whatever music isn't human enough. The way we play it back isn't human enough and the way we record it isn't human enough.