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HEART, FACES AND OTHERS GET ROCK HALL NOMINATIONS

9/27/2011

Heart, the Small Faces/The Faces and Joan Jett & the Blackhearts are among the first-timers on the short list of nominees for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's class of 2011, joining returning hopefuls such as Donovan, Laura Nyro, War and others. Fifteen finalists are on the ballot that's been sent to the Rock Hall's more than 500 voters, who will in turn select five to be inducted into the shrine on April 14, when the 27th annual ceremony returns to Cleveland for the third time. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation will subsequently determine non-performing inductees and recipients of the Award for Musical Excellence (formerly Sidemen). Combining bands like the Rock Hall has with the Small Faces and Faces is an unusual move, and keyboardist Ian MacLagan tells The Insider he feels it's "a bit insulting. If we have to go in as a combo, that's not right. It's a dollar short and many years too late -- but I'll take it." Two of the Faces are already in the Rock Hall: Rod Stewart as a solo artist; and Ron Wood as part of the Rolling Stones. Drummer Kenney Jones was briefly in the Who but was not inducted with them in 1990. Also on the ballot are Guns 'N Roses, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, the Cure, the Beastie Boys, Donna Summer, Freddie King, Rufus with Chaka Khan, rappers Eric B. & Rakim and onetime Motown act the Spinners. As in 2009, the 2012 ceremony will be open to the public. Individual tickets will go on sale in December, while tables and VIP packages are available now, Information can we found at www.rockhall.com. The Hall of Fame + Museum is planning 10 days of special activities leading up to the ceremony, including the unveiling of a new exhibit and the grand opening of its library and archives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-27 15:51 by tatters.

I agree with Ian MacLagen, these bands deserve to be inducted seperately.

The whole thing is a joke anyway. Still no Cliff Richard, The Shadows, Status Quo, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Slade, Roxy Music, The Jam, The Smiths...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-27 15:56 by Sleepy City.

The Baseball Hall Of Fame got it right. It's very hard to get in and, with a handful of exceptions, everyone that gets in deserves to get in. The Rock And Roll Hall Fame will eventually include anyone who ever had their own placard in a record store LP bin.

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tatters
The Rock And Roll Hall Fame will eventually include anyone who ever had their own placard in a record store LP bin.

Few people outside the USA value it anyway, as they only induct acts that were successful &/or influential there. It's as if the rest of the world isn't important.

AFT...

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detroitken
AFT...

What does that mean?

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Sleepy City

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detroitken
AFT...

What does that mean?

[www.netlingo.com]

Netlingo is unfortunately a modern day thing.OMG,LOL,AFT and many others I guess.Not to my liking at all.If you can speak English ,why not use it to express yourself in an interesting way.Don't be a sheep and follow the crowd.

Anybody who knows anything about rock n roll will tell you that the Small Faces were a very important group that should have been inducted the first year they were eligible.

"Whatcha Gonna Do About It" was released in 1965. That means the Small Faces could have been inducted in 1990. Steve Marriott died in 1991, and therefore could have accepted this award in person.

The HoF continued to ignore the Small Faces, and then Ronnie Lane died in 1997. Now there was just Mac and Kenney (and Jimmy Winston, who was replaced by Mac.) I guess that inducting them at that point would have just drawn attention to the fact that the HoF already blew it.

This combination of Small Faces/Faces is the final insult. These were two different groups. Imagine a Yardbirds/Led Zeppelin induction. It's all too....stupid.

Hard to believe, but the RnR HoF may have reached a new low with this one.


If you've seen the Ronnie Lane documentary, "The Passing Show," you're probably aware that Ronnie should be inducted in the HoF three times: with the Small Faces, the Faces, and as a solo artist.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-28 06:16 by loog droog.

It´s even harder to get out.

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Sleepy City
I agree with Ian MacLagen, these bands deserve to be inducted seperately.

The whole thing is a joke anyway. Still no Cliff Richard, The Shadows, Status Quo, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Slade, Roxy Music, The Jam, The Smiths...

Cliff will never get in. Not popular in the States.

it always makes me laugh when people get upset that this guy or that guy or this band or that band aren't in the HOF and then they go and say that the whole thing is stupid and a joke anyway. if it's all a joke then why care if a certain act isn't inducted?

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loog droog
Anybody who knows anything about rock n roll will tell you that he Small Faces were a very important group that should have been inducted the first year they were eligible.

"Whatcha Gonna Do About It" was released in 1965. That means the Small Faces could have been inducted in 1990. Steve Marriott died in 1991, and therefore could have accepted this award in person.

The HoF continued to ignore the Small Faces, and then Ronnie Lane died in 1997. Now there was just Mac and Kenney (and Jimmy Winston, who was replaced by Mac.) I guess they inducting them would have just drawn attention to the fact that the HoF already blew it.

This combination of Small Faces/Faces is the final insult. These were two different groups. Imagine a Yardbirds/Led Zeppelin induction. It's all too....stupid.

Hard to believe, but the RnR HoF may have reached a new low with this one.


If you've seen the Ronnie Lane documentary, you're probably aware that Ronnie should be inducted in the HoF three times: with the Small Faces, the Faces, and as a solo artist.

Well put loog droog. The Small Faces and Faces were two different groups and your analogy of inducting the Yardbirds and Led Zeppelin as one group really drove the point home. Given the list of performers that "The Hall" have ignored (and inducted) over the years, the whole thing increasingly seems as a bit of a joke.

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ineedadrink
it always makes me laugh when people get upset that this guy or that guy or this band or that band aren't in the HOF and then they go and say that the whole thing is stupid and a joke anyway. if it's all a joke then why care if a certain act isn't inducted?

I'm merely pointing the fact out to those who take it seriously.

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Silver Dagger

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Sleepy City
I agree with Ian MacLagen, these bands deserve to be inducted seperately.

The whole thing is a joke anyway. Still no Cliff Richard, The Shadows, Status Quo, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Slade, Roxy Music, The Jam, The Smiths...

Cliff will never get in. Not popular in the States.

Nor will most of the others listed, despite being popular the world over & massively influential.

Whether fairly or not, the Small Faces were not that well known in the States. Personally my only exposure to them was the great 'Itchycoo Park' single, and I remember seeing the Ogden Nut Flake album. That's it. Steve Marriott was better known here for Humble Pie. The Faces with Wood and Stewart were much better known here, mainly as a live act. This is not to pass judgment, just how it was. I bought the Small Faces DVD 'All Or Nothing' last year and was basically introduced to the group at that time. I found I really liked their early r&b stuff but I was a little mystified by their later work. It seemed like a lot of it was a very inside, English joke. (And not that the band was a joke.) I especially grew to like Steve Marriott as a vocalist.

Besides, do you really respect an organization that would put Alice Cooper in before Donovan (a superstar), and Jethro Tull? Paraphrasing Groucho Marx, "I could never be part of a club that would have me as a member."

Just go's to show this Hall of Fame doesn't mean a lot. Small Faces and Faces are differant bands.Who are the 500 voters anyway?

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Sleepy City
I agree with Ian MacLagen, these bands deserve to be inducted seperately.

The whole thing is a joke anyway. Still no Cliff Richard, The Shadows, Status Quo, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Slade, Roxy Music, The Jam, The Smiths...

No Mott the Hoople!

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Sleepy City

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tatters
The Rock And Roll Hall Fame will eventually include anyone who ever had their own placard in a record store LP bin.

Few people outside the USA value it anyway, as they only induct acts that were successful &/or influential there. It's as if the rest of the world isn't important.

If I'm not mistaken, few people INSIDE the USA value it either.

I live closer to the R&RHOF than any of the Baseball, US Football or Basketball Hall of Fames but know FAR more people who have been to the sports halls than have been to the Rock Hall. The COUNTRY music HOF is pretty close to where I live and I do know a fair amount of people who have been there. If I had to guess, I could count the people I know who have made a trip to the R&RHOF on one hand as opposed to being able to come up with that many people who have driven 100's of miles to go to one of the others.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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mr_dja

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Sleepy City

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tatters
The Rock And Roll Hall Fame will eventually include anyone who ever had their own placard in a record store LP bin.

Few people outside the USA value it anyway, as they only induct acts that were successful &/or influential there. It's as if the rest of the world isn't important.

If I'm not mistaken, few people INSIDE the USA value it either.

Agreed, No Deep Purple, Stevie Ray Vaughan etc etc?
but they want the beasties boys?? lmao...
that place is nothing but a BS tourist trap. period



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-28 00:01 by Max'sKansasCity.

Isn't there a Rapper's Hall of Fame for the nominated rappers? Why put rappers in the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of fame??

I've said it before, but Heart is one of the most overrated groups of all time. They were a novelty act with lousy song writing and screeching voices. (IMO, of course)

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loog droog
Anybody who knows anything about rock n roll will tell you that he Small Faces were a very important group that should have been inducted the first year they were eligible.

"Whatcha Gonna Do About It" was released in 1965. That means the Small Faces could have been inducted in 1990. Steve Marriott died in 1991, and therefore could have accepted this award in person.

The HoF continued to ignore the Small Faces, and then Ronnie Lane died in 1997. Now there was just Mac and Kenney (and Jimmy Winston, who was replaced by Mac.) I guess they inducting them would have just drawn attention to the fact that the HoF already blew it.

This combination of Small Faces/Faces is the final insult. These were two different groups. Imagine a Yardbirds/Led Zeppelin induction. It's all too....stupid.

Hard to believe, but the RnR HoF may have reached a new low with this one.

If you've seen the Ronnie Lane documentary, you're probably aware that Ronnie should be inducted in the HoF three times: with the Small Faces, the Faces, and as a solo artist.

Well said. I agree 100%. The rock and roll HOF lost credibility so many years ago. Screw em.

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DaveG
Isn't there a Rapper's Hall of Fame for the nominated rappers? Why put rappers in the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of fame??

I've said it before, but Heart is one of the most overrated groups of all time. They were a novelty act with lousy song writing and screeching voices. (IMO, of course)

Valid point about rappers and I certainly agree about Heart, they were definitely overrated if you ask me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-28 00:48 by RSbestbandever.

Here's something fans of American baseball might find interesting. It's a list of the 10 worst players in the Baseball Hall Of Fame.


No. 10 George Kell

We feel bad picking on a Detroit Tiger. After all, some of the franchise' best players - Jack Morris, Allan Trammel, Norm Cash - haven't gotten the call and arguably should have.
Maybe it's the curse of George Kell because he was a borderline player who got the nod.
Don't get us wrong, Kell had a fine career: 10 All-Star games, 2,000 hits, .300 average, a batting title and twice leading the league in hits.
He was also a classy guy who arguably belongs in the Hall for his broadcasting excellence.
But he played in an offensively dominant era - 1942-1957 - and played an offensively dominant position - third base - and didn't put up offensively dominant numbers.
According to Baseball-Reference.com, some of the players most similar to Kell were Harvey Kuen, Jimmy Collins (who is also enshrined in Cooperstown), Bill Madlock and Carney Lansford.
We haven't seen a movement to put Madlock or Lansford in the Hall.
However, we wouldn't take Kell out of the Hall if given the choice. But that doesn't change the fact he's right on the border of not belonging there.


No. 9 Waite Hoyt

Wait Hoyt is the worst starting pitcher in the Hall of Fame. Addie Joss is ranked lower by many people, but he died after nine very, very good seasons. So he conceivably could have won 300 games. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Hoyt got to play a full career and had several strong campaigns.
His 3.59 ERA is pretty high. As is his 1.340 WHIP. From 1925-1932, the height of his career, he had a 3.92 ERA. That was during his ages 25-32 seasons. That is a high ERA for the prime of your career.


No. 8 Phil Rizzuto

No player - not Richie Ashburn, not Andre Dawson, not Jim Rice, not Bruce Sutter - caused more controversy over his induction than Phil Rizzutto.
The Scooter was a fantastic broadcaster and a fine on-field leader. He deservedly won the 1950 MVP. He missed three seasons because of military service.
It's a fine career for a fine man.
But one who clearly does not belong in the Hall of Fame.
The four-time All-Star has a 23 on the Hall of Fame monitor at baseball-reference.com. The average inductee has a 100. Rizzuto never received more than 38 percent of the vote from the Hall of Fame voters during his years of eligibility. He did get in, however, thanks to the veterans committee, which basically inducted a bunch of Giants, Yankees, Red Sox and Cardinals.


No. 7 Harry Hooper

Harry Hooper was a nifty defensive center fielder who could steal some bases, flash a powerful arm and provide a spark during the playoffs.
Sounds like Shane Victorino or Willie McGee.
While we here at The Southpaw fawn over the Flyin' Hawaiian, we wouldn't put him in Cooperstown.

Hooper's credentials include a .281 average and more than 2,400 hits and 300 stolen bases.
That's a fine career. It's comparable to Kenny Lofton or Willie Wilson.
But it's just a hair below the level of Cooperstown.

No. 6 Frank Chance

"Baseball's Sad Lexicon" is a rhyme that got three Chicago Cubs - Frank Chance, Johnny Evers and Joe Tinker - some extra recognition.
It's a nice little rhyme and a nice little story.
The problem is it made three slightly above-average players so well-known they got inducted into the Hall of Fame.
Chance was the best of the bunch. He twice led the league in stolen bases, once paced the league in on-base percentage and another time did it in runs. He retired with a respectable .296 average, an impressive .394 on-base percentage, and a below-average .394 slugging percentage.
Chance is the 25th first baseman listed in Bill James' "The New Historical Baseball Abstract." Every player ahead of him is in the Hall. So he's definitely a borderline player. But only one player after him on the list made it in.


No. 5 Chick Hafey

Seriously, this one boggles the mind. Chick Hafey played exactly two seasons with more than 140 games.
In that way, he was the J.D. Drew of his day.
Granted, he had a good four-year plateau that included a run of averaging .340, 24 home runs, 110 runs batted in and 10 stolen bases.
Playing in the same era, Babe Herman had a four-year run of .357, 22 home runs, 108 runs batted in and 14 stolen bases.
And he hasn't come close to enshrinement.
The same can be said for Cy Williams (.313, 26, 109 and 34).
So, again, we'd like to know how Hafey earned enshrinement based on four fantastic seasons during a 10-year run in which he averaged just 116 games played.


No. 4 Joe Tinker

Joe Tinker was Frank Chance's teammate. And Chance was the better player, with a higher batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage, more stolen bases and more runs produced.
So Tinker really doesn't belong in Cooperstown.
He batted above .291 just once in his career. Only once did he hit more than four home runs.
He did however, run well, according to the evidence. He retired with 324 stolen bases and 114 triples.
He also played solid defense.
But you could say the same for many players of that era who aren't in the Hall of Fame.


No. 3 George Kelly

George Kelly is in the Hall of Fame. However, according to James' book, Kelly is the 65th best first baseman of all time.
Sixty-fifth.
That puts him between Cecil Fielder (55) and Bill Skowron (75), Fred Tenney (70), Ferris Fain (62) and John Kruk (72).
Baseball Reference has similar players, when it comes to listing men with similar careers: Bob Watson, Frank McCormick, Bill White, Carl Furillo, Bob Meusel, Tony Oliva, Gus Bell and Bing Miller. Not a Hall of Famer in the bunch.
Kelly's stats don't make an argument he belongs either. Twice he led the league in runs batted in. Once he paced the senior circuit in home runs.
Kelly's career took off just as the ball became juiced (1920-1930). Yet he wasn't offensively dominant. Sure, he batted .292/.342/.452 with 148 home runs and 1,020 runs batted in. Yet he might have been the fifth or sixth best hitter in the lineup. Ross Youngs (A star who died after 10 seasons, he retired with a .317/.399/.441 split) was certainly better. Frankie Frisch was certainly better. Travis Jackson and Dave Bancroft were arguably better. As were George Burns and Frank Snyder.
There can be no doubt Kelly had a good career.
There can also be no doubt he doesn't even come close to belonging in the Hall of Fame.
Otherwise, we'd have to open the doors to Cecil Fielder, Carl Furillo and Gus Bell.


No. 2: Johnny Evers

Johnny Evers was one of the smallest players ever to take the field, reportedly weighing in at under 100 lbs.
He was also one of the most fierce. He was involved in several fisticuffs and went years without speaking to his double-play partner.
Evers retired with a .270 average, a .356 on-base percentage and 12 home runs. He had 324 stolen bases, which sounds like a lot but is fewer than Jose Cardinal, Gary Pettis and Luis Castillo.
His Hall of Fame monitor is just 24, from baseball-reference.com. The average Hall of Famer is 100.
Evers was known for his defense. While we'd like to give him credit for that. His range factor, 5.12, was slightly below the league average for the time, 5.19.
His fielding percentage, however, was seven points higher than the league average.
So it would seem the numbers don't back up the reputation.
If you're not that good with the stick, you really have to stand out with the glove if you're going to get enshrined.
Evers wasn't that much better.


No. 1: Rick Ferrell

At least he was a catcher. Otherwise, Rick Farrell's numbers are the most absurd of any player in the Hall.
He played 19 seasons and averaged 63 runs batted in, 59 runs scored, 2 home runs, 2 stolen bases and 28 doubles a year.
It's not like he ever had a dominant run either. His best run came was from 1931-1935. During that time, he went .302/.391/.403.
Ferrell wasn't even the best hitter in his family, with brother Wes bashing 10 more home runs than Rick despite playing more than 1,000 fewer games.
We'll give Farrell some slack since he was a catcher.
And he did hold the record for most games caught until Carlton Fisk came along.
According to Bill James' "The New Historical Baseball Abstract," Ferrell is the 29th best catcher of all time.
That puts him behind the likes of Darren Daulton, Tim McCarver, Bob Boone, Lance Parrish, Darrell Porter and Gene Tenace.
This is why voters didn't push for Ferrell when he was up for selection. He never got more than one vote for enshrinement during any of the years he was on the ballot.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-28 03:41 by tatters.

THE ROCK N ROLL HALL OF DISCO & R&B FAME,

Donna Summer, Eric B & Rakim please spare me, Madonna's in there.

All this USA centric BS, it's stupid, any decent rock fan from anywhere in the world will probably know, respect and appreciate Deep Purple, The Scorpions, Cold Chisel, The Cars, Sepultura, YES, UFO, Roxy Music, Autograph, Gorky Park, Tommy James & the Shondells, Judas Priest and The Guess Who as worthy of the name rock and roll instead of this generic pop disguised as soul.

For the love of.....

Now, I genuinely dig EWF & rate Grandmaster Flash's "White Lines" as an 80's monster club classic, but what does this have to do with Rock and the early 50's/60's Doo Wop groups have an extremely remote connection at best to 70's, 80's and todays Rock and Roll.

How can you call something a Hall of Fame and then DeFame the Great artists that furthered the genre in their own countries and in turn bought Rock to a wider audience than say Eric B, bless him



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-28 04:53 by SKILLS.

The Small Faces & The Faces are not in the R&R Hall of fame?
What a f*cking joke indeed.

Rush!

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loog droog
It's all too....stupid.

Hard to believe, but the RnR HoF may have reached a new low with this one.

If you've seen the Ronnie Lane documentary, "The Passing Show," you're probably aware that Ronnie should be inducted in the HoF three times: with the Small Faces, the Faces, and as a solo artist.

Agreed fully. His solo work was wonderful as well. And his album with Pete Townshend, Rough Mix, remains easily the best work by any member of the Who outside of the Who.

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crawdaddy
Netlingo is unfortunately a modern day thing.OMG,LOL,AFT and many others I guess.Not to my liking at all.If you can speak English ,why not use it to express yourself in an interesting way.Don't be a sheep and follow the crowd.

LMFAORN....b.a.a.a.hhhhhhhhh!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-28 06:59 by treaclefingers.