Tell Me :
Talk
Amazing. The term "Las Vegas" is generally used here to mean not authentic and phony, and yet you use it to describe an American R&B vocal group.
A lot of Rock fans just don't get the approach that black artists take. The idea of wearing shiny suits and being polished performers who actually sing in tune is derided as "cheesy." If a black group ever played the Apollo and sang as ragged as Keith or Ronnie or Mick has on stage, they'd be given the hook!
The idea of a bunch of white guys from England, millionaires who dress down and sing the blues being more authentic than a group from the country and music and race they emulate is a joke.
This song is in my opinion the overlooked gem on the album, that was lost between the title track anthem, the opening rocker, the Motown cover single, and the two big statements (TWFNO and FF ).
It maybe runs a little long, and like the rest of the album, has a soggy sound that lacks the punch of the 68-72 Golden Age records, but it's a good track. And compared to their body of work since '81, it's a masterpiece.
Way off....Those are lyrics are the Stones and nobody else.
I agree that it is too long, listened to it earlier today and to me, the song loses its way at about 4:30. It would be interesting to hear the unverified version recorded earlier that year.
Excellent point!
I know exactly what you mean! That's why I so much prefer his ballad singing in 1965.
See lyrics above
The culture/vulture stuff, etc.
"No Anchovies, Please"
Ha ha. I agree with you that editing down Stones classics not necessarily is for the good. But as long as the classics are out there and no private edit ever really pose a threat anyhow, its ok. Its like trying to mix GS all over using those isolated tracks. IMHO, no remix will ever touch the original version. However, you could learn a whole lot from it.
The problem in my opinion is when those radio formated 3.30 version tracks start to appear as the only version of a song, an attempt to push a living breathing work of art into an envelope of concrete, hehe. That is just plain sad. Of course, succeeding within the strict rules that is a three minute popsingle, 90 minute Hollywood blockbuster or even the Shakespearien sonettas can be an enormous challenge, so Im not dissing it, its just not very Stones to cut it too clean. Still, my irritation with "If you really..." is that it does not breath so much as sag, as noted earlier. It´s a fine line, hehe.
With the risk of getting off topic, I recently read a interview with the editor of the new film "Tree of Life". He said it took him a long time to figure out that what director Terrence Malick wanted from a scene always was what he instinctively cut out. The editor seeked logic, the director only kept the "breath" and threw all that was logic out the window. While the "Tree of Life" is probably not for everybody, its an interesting piece of film.
If I knew nothing about the RS except the music I think I still would think Mick was the logic one and Keith the one that strived for rhythms and feel more than anything. The breathing.
But what do I know.
I agree, but this one is not a classic, imo.
'People tell me you are a vulture,
Say you're a sore in a cancer culture -
but you got a little charm around ya,
I'll be there when they finally hound ya, hound yaaaaa....'
There is a review of IORR from the New Yorker, where writer Ellen Willis comments on this song, and others:
"Could be that Jagger has finally met his match..."
And I love those last guitar licks....in the fade-out.....
Yeah, might be.
The "charm around you"-line is VERY similar to what eventually would be Lonely At The Top ("...it leads the small town girls astray..")
The Stones were just not so focused at this point in time. Like much of 'It's Only Rock 'N' Roll', there is something fundamentally hollow about 'If You Really Want To Be My Friend', which by the way has nothing at all to do with 'Blue Magic'. Jagger's affected vocal comes more to the fore in this period too, almost as though Jagger believes they can make up for the song's lack of quality. That's not to say the song possesses no redeeming features. Vaguely, the overall sound of the track isn't bad, but it's content that's lacking. I believe there are elements that relate a little to 'Let It Loose', although this song isn't nearly so grand. Maybe by this period the Stones were lacking conviction.
Well said. Come to think of it, I wouldn't let my dog's fleas listen to it either.
Very divisive ...it's the Stones Marmite song. Me I like it very much
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: August 30, 2011 17:17
A good song, would have benefitted if it wasn't so long. Almost 6.30 minutes is a bit too much.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
loog droog
()
Date: August 30, 2011 17:34
Quote
drewmasterQuote
Doxa
I don't like Jagger's vocal delivery either. There is just something so cheesy in it.
There IS a very cheesy quality about this song, but I think the cheesiness comes from Blue Magic. They reek of Las Vegas. I can just picture them on stage in shiny suits doing a little cheesy dance routine. To me, this is not a Stones track featuring Blue Magic, this is a Blue Magic song with some input from the Stones.
Drew
Amazing. The term "Las Vegas" is generally used here to mean not authentic and phony, and yet you use it to describe an American R&B vocal group.
A lot of Rock fans just don't get the approach that black artists take. The idea of wearing shiny suits and being polished performers who actually sing in tune is derided as "cheesy." If a black group ever played the Apollo and sang as ragged as Keith or Ronnie or Mick has on stage, they'd be given the hook!
The idea of a bunch of white guys from England, millionaires who dress down and sing the blues being more authentic than a group from the country and music and race they emulate is a joke.
This song is in my opinion the overlooked gem on the album, that was lost between the title track anthem, the opening rocker, the Motown cover single, and the two big statements (TWFNO and FF ).
It maybe runs a little long, and like the rest of the album, has a soggy sound that lacks the punch of the 68-72 Golden Age records, but it's a good track. And compared to their body of work since '81, it's a masterpiece.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
leteyer
()
Date: August 30, 2011 17:47
Quote
drewmaster
There IS a very cheesy quality about this song, but I think the cheesiness comes from Blue Magic. They reek of Las Vegas. I can just picture them on stage in shiny suits doing a little cheesy dance routine. To me, this is not a Stones track featuring Blue Magic, this is a Blue Magic song with some input from the Stones.
Drew
Way off....Those are lyrics are the Stones and nobody else.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
big4
()
Date: August 30, 2011 19:18
Quote
Blueranger
A good song, would have benefitted if it wasn't so long. Almost 6.30 minutes is a bit too much.
I agree that it is too long, listened to it earlier today and to me, the song loses its way at about 4:30. It would be interesting to hear the unverified version recorded earlier that year.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: August 30, 2011 23:57
Quote
loog droogQuote
drewmasterQuote
Doxa
I don't like Jagger's vocal delivery either. There is just something so cheesy in it.
There IS a very cheesy quality about this song, but I think the cheesiness comes from Blue Magic. They reek of Las Vegas. I can just picture them on stage in shiny suits doing a little cheesy dance routine. To me, this is not a Stones track featuring Blue Magic, this is a Blue Magic song with some input from the Stones.
Drew
Amazing. The term "Las Vegas" is generally used here to mean not authentic and phony, and yet you use it to describe an American R&B vocal group.
A lot of Rock fans just don't get the approach that black artists take. The idea of wearing shiny suits and being polished performers who actually sing in tune is derided as "cheesy." If a black group ever played the Apollo and sang as ragged as Keith or Ronnie or Mick has on stage, they'd be given the hook!
The idea of a bunch of white guys from England, millionaires who dress down and sing the blues being more authentic than a group from the country and music and race they emulate is a joke.
This song is in my opinion the overlooked gem on the album, that was lost between the title track anthem, the opening rocker, the Motown cover single, and the two big statements (TWFNO and FF ).
It maybe runs a little long, and like the rest of the album, has a soggy sound that lacks the punch of the 68-72 Golden Age records, but it's a good track. And compared to their body of work since '81, it's a masterpiece.
Excellent point!
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: August 31, 2011 00:17
Well I don't understand the general derision this album is on the receiving end of.
Said song is excellent.
The only duff track on the album, is Short & Curlies...it's funny though, in a country honk kind of way, only cruder.
IORR is still a great studio track...live though, I CAN'T TAKE IT!
Said song is excellent.
The only duff track on the album, is Short & Curlies...it's funny though, in a country honk kind of way, only cruder.
IORR is still a great studio track...live though, I CAN'T TAKE IT!
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: August 31, 2011 00:40
As hard Stones connoisseurs we can become spoiled, and forget the quality. Wonder how many folks who put down the song, are doing it only as compared to other Stones cuts. Nobody can do this what Jagger does here. This outro, the ad libbing; I can not think of another white rock singer who can do this with that soul and imagination.
They end up in pointless screeching, hanging on to one word, or like Rod Stewart who invariably ends up "tryin to get on back home" in every song.
The music is great. At almost every turn there is something interesting: Nicky running a scale up the piano, or a hard extra strum on an acoustic guitar. Forget about that Leslie guitar.
They end up in pointless screeching, hanging on to one word, or like Rod Stewart who invariably ends up "tryin to get on back home" in every song.
The music is great. At almost every turn there is something interesting: Nicky running a scale up the piano, or a hard extra strum on an acoustic guitar. Forget about that Leslie guitar.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
tipps
()
Date: August 31, 2011 06:04
Great song, one of my favs from that lp. I'd like to hear it live next year.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
DragonSky
()
Date: August 31, 2011 06:16
When I first got this album I usually stopped with this tune. But one day it sank in - it's a fantastic song. My own Exile sucked when it came out now it's great critics moment with one song.
And playing Can You Hear The Music and this one back to back is killer. I love how they did these type of tunes, the long meandering tunes - Moonlight Mile is another one - where the song just seems to go on for a good while.
And playing Can You Hear The Music and this one back to back is killer. I love how they did these type of tunes, the long meandering tunes - Moonlight Mile is another one - where the song just seems to go on for a good while.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
wandering spirit
()
Date: August 31, 2011 10:49
i personally can´t stand this one...it´s way too sweet, sticky....the way mick sings is in my ears almost a self-parody....in the same league as blinded by love, indian girl and sweethearts together....
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: August 31, 2011 12:11
the way mick sings is in my ears almost a self-parody....in the same league as blinded by love, indian girl and sweethearts together....
Hey fine ballads like that...
2 1 2 0
Hey fine ballads like that...
2 1 2 0
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: September 1, 2011 16:39
My goodness, I haven't listened to this one for ages... and now I wish I had. Vocals just a bit too sweet, but musically it's a beauty. Love that Leslie-guitar (you could have fooled me that it was an actual organ) and the way it works with Nicky's piano.
However. Sorry, Taylor-fans, but I really don't like that solo. It's good in itself, but it feels sort of bolted-on, as if it doesn't really belong to this song.
However. Sorry, Taylor-fans, but I really don't like that solo. It's good in itself, but it feels sort of bolted-on, as if it doesn't really belong to this song.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Sleepy City
()
Date: September 1, 2011 16:42
Quote
Come On
the way mick sings is in my ears almost a self-parody....in the same league as blinded by love, indian girl and sweethearts together....
Hey fine ballads like that...
I know exactly what you mean! That's why I so much prefer his ballad singing in 1965.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Sleepy City
()
Date: September 1, 2011 16:43
Quote
Sleepy CityQuote
Come On
the way mick sings is in my ears almost a self-parody....in the same league as blinded by love, indian girl and sweethearts together....
Hey fine ballads like that...
I know exactly what you mean! That's why I so much prefer his ballad singing in 1965.
Fans complain about the "affected" accents & vocal stylings Mick does these days, but really they started about 40 years ago.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 1, 2011 16:55
A downright cheesy soul ballad to my ears. However, the guitars are nice, especially the sound. Mick and Blue Magic are not.
The Leslie guitar is Keith, not Taylor. Taylor's solo is a bit too low in the mix. Might have something to do with what he plays, which could be a bit too energetic for the feel of this song. Nice guitar sound, though.
"...If you really want to be my man
Get your nails out of my back, stop using me
You know I really, really want to be your friend
But just a little faith is all we need..."
The worst ballad the Stones released in the 70s, imo.
The Leslie guitar is Keith, not Taylor. Taylor's solo is a bit too low in the mix. Might have something to do with what he plays, which could be a bit too energetic for the feel of this song. Nice guitar sound, though.
"...If you really want to be my man
Get your nails out of my back, stop using me
You know I really, really want to be your friend
But just a little faith is all we need..."
The worst ballad the Stones released in the 70s, imo.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: September 1, 2011 17:00
Love this song. Sorry, you haters.
Obviously about Bianca.
Obviously about Bianca.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 1, 2011 17:02
Quote
Elmo Lewis
Love this song. Sorry, you haters.
Obviously about Bianca.
See lyrics above
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
DragonSky
()
Date: September 1, 2011 18:04
The Stones doing something different - and way off the usual - that is so not Indian Girl etc.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: September 1, 2011 21:49
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Elmo Lewis
Love this song. Sorry, you haters.
Obviously about Bianca.
See lyrics above
The culture/vulture stuff, etc.
"No Anchovies, Please"
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
RobberBride
()
Date: September 2, 2011 22:10
Good song, but it sags a bit with the constant up and down in intensity IMHO.
Great solo. Don´t mind the sugary back up, although it can´t touch Let it Loose at all, a song I´ve always felt it tried to match.
But love the doubletracked Mick J in the choruses almost has a flanger feel to it and the spontaneous two "yeah!"´s before and into the same chorus. Despite the IORR album seems to be too much of a separated studio effort, those things make it less so.
Its a bit too long. Since my dayjob is as an editor this one once was a obvious choice to shorten. Even though its sacrilegious. Going from the guitar solo directly into the climax makes much more sense to me. So in my current best of list I have the 3.30 version, eventhough the 4.47 version features the cool second verse.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-02 22:16 by RobberBride.
Great solo. Don´t mind the sugary back up, although it can´t touch Let it Loose at all, a song I´ve always felt it tried to match.
But love the doubletracked Mick J in the choruses almost has a flanger feel to it and the spontaneous two "yeah!"´s before and into the same chorus. Despite the IORR album seems to be too much of a separated studio effort, those things make it less so.
Its a bit too long. Since my dayjob is as an editor this one once was a obvious choice to shorten. Even though its sacrilegious. Going from the guitar solo directly into the climax makes much more sense to me. So in my current best of list I have the 3.30 version, eventhough the 4.47 version features the cool second verse.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-02 22:16 by RobberBride.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: September 3, 2011 02:28
Wow; good posting. I just posted like 7 or 8 times and was going to quit. I hate it when my name is on top if the list like bang, bang , bang. But I had to answer this. I don't agree too much with the editing idea, and I am one of those who like the song a lot, but what you say is very deep. I wonder if the constant up and down has to do with what annoys people. I had never looked at it like that.Quote
RobberBride
Good song, but it sags a bit with the constant up and down in intensity IMHO.
Great solo. Don´t mind the sugary back up, although it can´t touch Let it Loose at all, a song I´ve always felt it tried to match.
But love the doubletracked Mick J in the choruses almost has a flanger feel to it and the spontaneous two "yeah!"´s before and into the same chorus. Despite the IORR album seems to be too much of a separated studio effort, those things make it less so.
Its a bit too long. Since my dayjob is as an editor this one once was a obvious choice to shorten. Even though its sacrilegious. Going from the guitar solo directly into the climax makes much more sense to me. So in my current best of list I have the 3.30 version, eventhough the 4.47 version features the cool second verse.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
RobberBride
()
Date: September 5, 2011 17:04
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I don't agree too much with the editing idea, and I am one of those who like the song a lot
Ha ha. I agree with you that editing down Stones classics not necessarily is for the good. But as long as the classics are out there and no private edit ever really pose a threat anyhow, its ok. Its like trying to mix GS all over using those isolated tracks. IMHO, no remix will ever touch the original version. However, you could learn a whole lot from it.
The problem in my opinion is when those radio formated 3.30 version tracks start to appear as the only version of a song, an attempt to push a living breathing work of art into an envelope of concrete, hehe. That is just plain sad. Of course, succeeding within the strict rules that is a three minute popsingle, 90 minute Hollywood blockbuster or even the Shakespearien sonettas can be an enormous challenge, so Im not dissing it, its just not very Stones to cut it too clean. Still, my irritation with "If you really..." is that it does not breath so much as sag, as noted earlier. It´s a fine line, hehe.
With the risk of getting off topic, I recently read a interview with the editor of the new film "Tree of Life". He said it took him a long time to figure out that what director Terrence Malick wanted from a scene always was what he instinctively cut out. The editor seeked logic, the director only kept the "breath" and threw all that was logic out the window. While the "Tree of Life" is probably not for everybody, its an interesting piece of film.
If I knew nothing about the RS except the music I think I still would think Mick was the logic one and Keith the one that strived for rhythms and feel more than anything. The breathing.
But what do I know.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 5, 2011 17:21
Quote
RobberBrideQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
I don't agree too much with the editing idea, and I am one of those who like the song a lot
Ha ha. I agree with you that editing down Stones classics not necessarily is for the good. But as long as the classics are out there and no private edit ever really pose a threat anyhow, its ok. Its like trying to mix GS all over using those isolated tracks. IMHO, no remix will ever touch the original version. However, you could learn a whole lot from it.
The problem in my opinion is when those radio formated 3.30 version tracks start to appear as the only version of a song, an attempt to push a living breathing work of art into an envelope of concrete, hehe. That is just plain sad. Of course, succeeding within the strict rules that is a three minute popsingle, 90 minute Hollywood blockbuster or even the Shakespearien sonettas can be an enormous challenge, so Im not dissing it, its just not very Stones to cut it too clean. Still, my irritation with "If you really..." is that it does not breath so much as sag, as noted earlier. It´s a fine line, hehe.
With the risk of getting off topic, I recently read a interview with the editor of the new film "Tree of Life". He said it took him a long time to figure out that what director Terrence Malick wanted from a scene always was what he instinctively cut out. The editor seeked logic, the director only kept the "breath" and threw all that was logic out the window. While the "Tree of Life" is probably not for everybody, its an interesting piece of film.
If I knew nothing about the RS except the music I think I still would think Mick was the logic one and Keith the one that strived for rhythms and feel more than anything. The breathing.
But what do I know.
I agree, but this one is not a classic, imo.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: September 5, 2011 17:27
One of the most complex compositions of Jagger/Richards. One of the few songs that are 5 minutes long and get no boring character. A marvellous melody, a great solo of MT and a gospel-like choir in the background who fits in the melancholic mood of the song, because the lines
"I don't want no dog eat dog world for you and me
Get your nails out, stop bleeding me"
are nothing more than an unrealizable wish.
"I don't want no dog eat dog world for you and me
Get your nails out, stop bleeding me"
are nothing more than an unrealizable wish.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: September 5, 2011 23:29
Quote
Elmo LewisQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Elmo Lewis
Love this song. Sorry, you haters.
Obviously about Bianca.
See lyrics above
The culture/vulture stuff, etc.
'People tell me you are a vulture,
Say you're a sore in a cancer culture -
but you got a little charm around ya,
I'll be there when they finally hound ya, hound yaaaaa....'
There is a review of IORR from the New Yorker, where writer Ellen Willis comments on this song, and others:
"Could be that Jagger has finally met his match..."
And I love those last guitar licks....in the fade-out.....
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 6, 2011 09:25
Quote
stupidguy2Quote
Elmo LewisQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Elmo Lewis
Love this song. Sorry, you haters.
Obviously about Bianca.
See lyrics above
The culture/vulture stuff, etc.
'People tell me you are a vulture,
Say you're a sore in a cancer culture -
but you got a little charm around ya,
I'll be there when they finally hound ya, hound yaaaaa....'
There is a review of IORR from the New Yorker, where writer Ellen Willis comments on this song, and others:
"Could be that Jagger has finally met his match..."
And I love those last guitar licks....in the fade-out.....
Yeah, might be.
The "charm around you"-line is VERY similar to what eventually would be Lonely At The Top ("...it leads the small town girls astray..")
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Edward Twining
()
Date: September 6, 2011 18:44
Quote
leteyerQuote
drewmaster
There IS a very cheesy quality about this song, but I think the cheesiness comes from Blue Magic. They reek of Las Vegas. I can just picture them on stage in shiny suits doing a little cheesy dance routine. To me, this is not a Stones track featuring Blue Magic, this is a Blue Magic song with some input from the Stones.
Drew
Way off....Those are lyrics are the Stones and nobody else.
The Stones were just not so focused at this point in time. Like much of 'It's Only Rock 'N' Roll', there is something fundamentally hollow about 'If You Really Want To Be My Friend', which by the way has nothing at all to do with 'Blue Magic'. Jagger's affected vocal comes more to the fore in this period too, almost as though Jagger believes they can make up for the song's lack of quality. That's not to say the song possesses no redeeming features. Vaguely, the overall sound of the track isn't bad, but it's content that's lacking. I believe there are elements that relate a little to 'Let It Loose', although this song isn't nearly so grand. Maybe by this period the Stones were lacking conviction.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
nomis
()
Date: September 6, 2011 18:57
I always assumed it was Billy Preston on backing vocals. I guess now I know otherwise. Nice post. I'm glad this song is not forgotten.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: August 15, 2015 11:34
Quote
drewmaster
Sorry, but to me this is a clunker... one of the weakest tracks on a spotty album. I wouldn't let my dog listen to this one.
Drew
Well said. Come to think of it, I wouldn't let my dog's fleas listen to it either.
Re: Track Talk: If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Posted by:
exhpart
()
Date: December 24, 2019 20:28
Quote
Turner68Quote
drewmaster
Sorry, but to me this is a clunker... one of the weakest tracks on a spotty album. I wouldn't let my dog listen to this one.
Drew
Well said. Come to think of it, I wouldn't let my dog's fleas listen to it either.
Very divisive ...it's the Stones Marmite song. Me I like it very much
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