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Redhotcarpet
Brian wasnt a lead guitarist, Keith wasnt either but he did the solos in the Stones and became the only guitar player. But the main guitar in Mona is the rhythm, In Rooster it's the slide, I cant be satisfied is all about the slide and the bass. Last Time is all about the main riff. And so on.

There is a guitar solo in TLT that also deserves a mention, imo

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Redhotcarpet
Brian wasnt a lead guitarist, Keith wasnt either but he did the solos in the Stones and became the only guitar player. But the main guitar in Mona is the rhythm, In Rooster it's the slide, I cant be satisfied is all about the slide and the bass. Last Time is all about the main riff. And so on.

Yes but they did do Jimmy Reed well together which is basically putting two lead guitar parts together. And for 1962-64 that was pretty impressive. And I always thought Keith did a good job on Down the Road Apiece. Always thought Brian did a good job with Mona that should have been a single. And Brian did have his fair share of solos with his harp and slide. Maybe the deal was Keith would do the standard solos and Brian would get the harp and slide solos. I could see those two making that deal. They brought contrasting styles to the stones and yet become one with the Jimmy Reed style. That's why their 1st album was so good. It had plenty of contrast.

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Come On
I like the solo in 'Time is on my side' the best....

Keith played the solo, Brian kept playing his picking chord part during the solo.

In all live stones versions from 60's his tremolo sound and picking chordal part continues during the solo.

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet
Brian wasnt a lead guitarist, Keith wasnt either but he did the solos in the Stones and became the only guitar player. But the main guitar in Mona is the rhythm, In Rooster it's the slide, I cant be satisfied is all about the slide and the bass. Last Time is all about the main riff. And so on.

There is a guitar solo in TLT that also deserves a mention, imo

I'm assuming you mean the Last Time. Brian plays the main repetitve riff that dominates the song. Keith plays the rythmn and overdubs the lead in the middle. Still Brian's part completely makes it a classic. And Bill stated that Brian came up with that part on his own. Sure would have liked to see him get a song writing credit for it. He deserved one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-30 21:02 by ovalvox.

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thabo

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His Majesty
Regarding who plays slide on Jigsaw Puzzle, the Satanic Sessions bootleg CD featuring them recording it leaves no doubt as to who the slide player is. I never really thought it was Brian and the CD confirmed that, but it also revealed that Bill played the bass, which did suprise me as I thought for years that it was Keith who played bass on the track.

Do I understand you correct? You are saying that "Jigsaw Puzzle" was recorded in 1967 for "Their Satanic Majesties Request", but was finally used for "Beggars Banquet"?

No, no.

A cd featuring 14 takes of Jigsaw Puzzle from 1968 was included on the bootleg Satanic Sessions box sets. There's also a few takes of Child of the Moon from 1968. The rest is all 1967 recordings.

I can't be satisfied is a great slide solo.


SOUL

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soulsurvivor1
I can't be satisfied is a great slide solo.


SOUL

One of his best. I like to compare it to Keith's lead on Down the Road Apiece for technical skill and Imo Brian is equal to Keith. Brian played roughly half the solos on Rolling Stones #2. After that album his guitar soloing got sparse. Keith often claimed Brian quit playing guitar after the first couple of albums. Maybe he was referring to the diminished soloing on Brian's part after that.

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ovalvox

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet
Brian wasnt a lead guitarist, Keith wasnt either but he did the solos in the Stones and became the only guitar player. But the main guitar in Mona is the rhythm, In Rooster it's the slide, I cant be satisfied is all about the slide and the bass. Last Time is all about the main riff. And so on.

There is a guitar solo in TLT that also deserves a mention, imo

I'm assuming you mean the Last Time. Brian plays the main repetitve riff that dominates the song. Keith plays the rythmn and overdubs the lead in the middle. Still Brian's part completely makes it a classic. And Bill stated that Brian came up with that part on his own. Sure would have liked to see him get a song writing credit for it. He deserved one.

Yep, the guitar solo in The Last Time is also important for the song. Why does it matter if it was an overdub? It is a studio track.

Waddy didn't get credits for the guitar-motif in Saint Of Me either, it's not necessarily the way it works.

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ovalvox

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soulsurvivor1
I can't be satisfied is a great slide solo.


SOUL

One of his best. I like to compare it to Keith's lead on Down the Road Apiece for technical skill and Imo Brian is equal to Keith. Brian played roughly half the solos on Rolling Stones #2. After that album his guitar soloing got sparse. Keith often claimed Brian quit playing guitar after the first couple of albums. Maybe he was referring to the diminished soloing on Brian's part after that.

He played less guitar by Aftermath already. I think that is what Keith is referring to (even though it was their fourth album).

Satisfied and Down The Road Apiece are two very different guitar solos. None of them are technical - but both are great.

It doesn't matter. Just pointing out if was an overdub that gives the song three guitar parts. And yes those solos are very different. Slide and standard. I was comparing the difficulty of both and they are roughly the same. Brian on aftermath? Slide on Bother. Probably the fuzz guitar on Think. 12 string on Helper. Not the sitar that has always been reported. Not much. Played to many other things which was perfect for the album. The stones had to change and evolve to keep up with the Beatles.

As for song writing credit? It can work anyway you want it. John got a credit on Paul's. Vice versa. They may have contributed nothing to the song. Some bands the whole band would get a credit. Brian co wrote Ruby Tuesday with no credit. Mick admitted he had nothing to do with the song but got credited. I'm sure Oldham had a hand in that.

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ovalvox
It doesn't matter. Just pointing out if was an overdub that gives the song three guitar parts. And yes those solos are very different. Slide and standard. I was comparing the difficulty of both and they are roughly the same. Brian on aftermath? Slide on Bother. Probably the fuzz guitar on Think. 12 string on Helper. Not the sitar that has always been reported. Not much. Played to many other things which was perfect for the album. The stones had to change and evolve to keep up with the Beatles.

As for song writing credit? It can work anyway you want it. John got a credit on Paul's. Vice versa. They may have contributed nothing to the song. Some bands the whole band would get a credit. Brian co wrote Ruby Tuesday with no credit. Mick admitted he had nothing to do with the song but got credited. I'm sure Oldham had a hand in that.

You really don't know that. All we have is a clip where Brian plays somewhat similar to the recording, in a totally different setting. No one has confirmed that Brian played the piano.

Based on that, we don't know if he deserved a writing credit for Keith's song.

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DandelionPowderman
Ry Cooder is pretty average without the slide as well

I disagree. You easily can recognize Ry whatever he plays. You can't say that about average players.

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Koen

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DandelionPowderman
Ry Cooder is pretty average without the slide as well

I disagree. You easily can recognize Ry whatever he plays. You can't say that about average players.

I find his sound way more recognizable when playing slide, judging back from the Rising Sons-years. "Average" might have been a bit of a stretch, though

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ovalvox
As for song writing credit? It can work anyway you want it. John got a credit on Paul's. Vice versa. They may have contributed nothing to the song. Some bands the whole band would get a credit. Brian co wrote Ruby Tuesday with no credit. Mick admitted he had nothing to do with the song but got credited. I'm sure Oldham had a hand in that.

Very true. Jagger/Richards and Lennon/McCartney shouldn't be seen as facts about who wrote the song. Heck, even Mick admitted in 67 for italian TV that they were all authors of their songs but that they labeled them Jagger/Richards anyway.

BUT we still don't have any proof that Brian co wrote Ruby Tuesday with Keith. Marianne's story hasn't been confirmed and won't be either. Keith would never ever give Brian that even if it was true. What we do know is that Brian most likely played piano on the song due to the clip from RAI UNO in 67.

Brian from what I read had Keith living with him and Anita in 1966-67 and that is where Ruby Tuesday came from. Mick was off sailing. Tony Sanchez remarked in his book that Keith and Brian were jamming better and writing better together. I think Keith and Brian both wrote it about Linda Keith. Brian came up with the melody on recorder. He also rehearsed the cello that both Keith and Bill played together on the released track. Don't know who did the actual piano on the release. Bill always stated that he never saw Brian put piano down on any track in the studio. Brian it appears did enough to earn a credit. Mick and Keith probably had a Lennon/McCartney deal. 50/50 no matter what. I also read it in one of his biographies that he co-wrote it. Mick is on record as having nothing to do with the song. I can see Brian and Keith both sitting at the piano writing. Only Keith knows the truth. And since he rips Brian in is book I doubt he would admit now that Brian helped him write it.

Only Keith knows the truth.

And there it's stops...................50/50 Deal (if they would admit any co-writing with any of the stones they have to rewrite history)

__________________________

I'm a Brian fan too, but I concede that most solos are all Keith.

Here's a test for the "Time Is on My Side" / "Tell Me" solos:

When "Some Girls" was released and we heard that familiar "old" Stonesian guitar sound
on "Respectable" and "Far Away Eyes", the same as we last heard on "Happy" and "Wild Horses",
you come to the conclusion that the guy responsible who played that guitar was still here.
It wasn't Ronnie, and it sure wasn't Brian.

It was Keith.

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TheDailyBuzzherd
I'm a Brian fan too, but I concede that most solos are all Keith.

Here's a test for the "Time Is on My Side" / "Tell Me" solos:

When "Some Girls" was released and we heard that familiar "old" Stonesian guitar sound
on "Respectable" and "Far Away Eyes", the same as we last heard on "Happy" and "Wild Horses",
you come to the conclusion that the guy responsible who played that guitar was still here.
It wasn't Ronnie, and it sure wasn't Brian.

It was Keith.

Not understanding your rationale here. Woody plays a lap steel on " Far Away Eyes" that is awesome by the way. I don't understand how that wasn't Ronnie. What does that have to do with Time and Tell Me? No one really disputes that it is Keith on Time. Tell Me different story. There is no concrete proof that Brian didn't play the solo. Just assumed. Still sounds like his Gretsch to me and at the end of the solo he strums the bass notes before going back to the electric rythmn part. Keith still playing the 12 string acoustic. It doesn't make sense that Brian sat there and just watched. Bill Wyman credits Brian as playing on the track. So what did he play then? It would not make sense for Keith to write on an acoustic and tell Brian to play it while he did a different part. Bill credits both Brian and Keith with guitar and backing vocals. He doesn't specify who did what. Brian is also credited with tambourine. Bill could clear it up.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-01 00:23 by ovalvox.

He probably didn't play guitar on the track at all. It wasn't that unusual at the time

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DandelionPowderman
He probably didn't play guitar on the track at all. It wasn't that unusual at the time

I have to believe he did. Bill Wyman lists him as playing guitar on the track.

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ovalvox

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DandelionPowderman
He probably didn't play guitar on the track at all. It wasn't that unusual at the time

I have to believe he did. Bill Wyman lists him as playing guitar on the track.

But Bill has lots of stuff wrong in his books

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DandelionPowderman

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ovalvox

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DandelionPowderman
He probably didn't play guitar on the track at all. It wasn't that unusual at the time

I have to believe he did. Bill Wyman lists him as playing guitar on the track.

But Bill has lots of stuff wrong in his books

How do we determine what is fact or fiction? I considered that Bill might not be completely accurate. He claims to have invented the riffs to Black and Flash. A song like Tell Me no one has a reason to lie. Not even Bill. The song is inconsequential. You certainly can't trust Keith's claims either. He's famous for a poor memory. His book is proof of that. Charlie has always been straight up. He might be the guy. He might not remember either. It was almost 50 years ago. I'm trusting my ears. It sounds like Brian on his Gretsch playing the solo on Tell Me.

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Edith Grove

Ed Sullivan. Right after Brian does his slide on Rooster which was phenominal. Unfortunately you can barely hear Brian's guitar on Everybody after he switches from his Epiphone to his Vox. Brian always looked cool playing his Vox on Sullivan.

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ovalvox

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TheDailyBuzzherd
I'm a Brian fan too, but I concede that most solos are all Keith.

Here's a test for the "Time Is on My Side" / "Tell Me" solos:

When "Some Girls" was released and we heard that familiar "old" Stonesian guitar sound
on "Respectable" and "Far Away Eyes", the same as we last heard on "Happy" and "Wild Horses",
you come to the conclusion that the guy responsible who played that guitar was still here.
It wasn't Ronnie, and it sure wasn't Brian.

It was Keith.

Not understanding your rationale here. Woody plays a lap steel on " Far Away Eyes" that is awesome by the way. I don't understand how that wasn't Ronnie. What does that have to do with Time and Tell Me? No one really disputes that it is Keith on Time. Tell Me different story. There is no concrete proof that Brian didn't play the solo. Just assumed. Still sounds like his Gretsch to me and at the end of the solo he strums the bass notes before going back to the electric rythmn part. Keith still playing the 12 string acoustic. It doesn't make sense that Brian sat there and just watched. Bill Wyman credits Brian as playing on the track. So what did he play then? It would not make sense for Keith to write on an acoustic and tell Brian to play it while he did a different part. Bill credits both Brian and Keith with guitar and backing vocals. He doesn't specify who did what. Brian is also credited with tambourine. Bill could clear it up.

O, I didn't say specifically that Keith did the solos on "Far Away Eyes"
and "Respectable", only that "Stonesian guitar sound" reappears on these
tracks and others after Jones had passed. It doesn't make any sense that
Jones would pick a solo as on "Tell Me" and then not make any other con-
tribution as such on future recordings. Yes, some here have challenged
Brian did play the solo on "Time ...", not Keith, hence my point.

No question Ronnie plays pedal steel on "... Eyes" and one of the solos
on "Respectable".

This live 1965 video is interesting because Keith can hardly be heard and so Brian's guitar dominates and it shows Brian's rhythm playing and fills very clearly.

Brian's Firebird/Fender Amp combo sounds pretty good.

The opening fills and end riff on the first song and especially the 12 bar rhythm playing (Reelin and a Rockin) have some amp grit and then he seems to turn down the amp and clean up a bit for Satisfaction.







Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-05 14:46 by howled.

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DandelionPowderman

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ovalvox

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet
Brian wasnt a lead guitarist, Keith wasnt either but he did the solos in the Stones and became the only guitar player. But the main guitar in Mona is the rhythm, In Rooster it's the slide, I cant be satisfied is all about the slide and the bass. Last Time is all about the main riff. And so on.

There is a guitar solo in TLT that also deserves a mention, imo

I'm assuming you mean the Last Time. Brian plays the main repetitve riff that dominates the song. Keith plays the rythmn and overdubs the lead in the middle. Still Brian's part completely makes it a classic. And Bill stated that Brian came up with that part on his own. Sure would have liked to see him get a song writing credit for it. He deserved one.

Yep, the guitar solo in The Last Time is also important for the song. Why does it matter if it was an overdub? It is a studio track.

Waddy didn't get credits for the guitar-motif in Saint Of Me either, it's not necessarily the way it works.

No the solo is not important.
Waddy was not a mamber. Best side kick though since Billy Preston and Nicky Hopkins and Ry Cooder.

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howled
This live 1965 video is interesting because Keith can hardly be heard and so Brian's guitar dominates and it shows Brian's rhythm playing and fills very clearly.

Brian's Firebird/Fender Amp combo sounds pretty good.

The opening fills and end riff on the first song and especially the 12 bar rhythm playing (Reelin and a Rockin) have some amp grit and then he seems to turn down the amp and clean up a bit for Satisfaction.

very nice indeed !

Howled, GREAT find. Jones+Richards a guitar team made in heaven.

Jones rhythmic sense was PERFECT for The Stones and the way I best remember him.

Howled: Just finished the entire vid, and note that on the final number,
"It's Alright", that it's Brian doing the tremolo thing, not Keith!
Always thought that Keith! Very exciting manipulation there.