One of the joys (as well as frustrations) of Exile is trying to pick out who's doing what through all the murk. Tumbling Dice, for example. Jagger is credited with guitar, Taylor on bass. I am assuming that the opening riff and main rhythm is Richards, as well as the solo. What guitar is Jagger, exactly? And is Taylor also on guitar, or just on bass? Would love to hear your thoughts.

My guess:

The intro riff ( Open G, capo = V) and onwards is clearly Keith, on my left-channel.

The right channel is -to my ears- an open G distorted guitar, sounds like Jagger.
In the middle -the slide- could be a "shy" playing Taylor, standard tuning (?), but I suspect it to be Keith, cause to the guitarsolo in the middle has the same feel and timing and sounds like Keith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-28 13:59 by Amsterdamned.

I agree. Jagger should be the one in the right channel. And I think that everything else is Keith on guitar. In general, apart from Jagger, I can hear three guitars. The "shy" one should be Keith and not Mick T.

Yes, the untuned guitar on the intro is very Keith...

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Amsterdamned
My guess:

The intro riff ( Open G, capo = V) and onwards is clearly Keith, on my left-channel.

The right channel is -to my ears- an open G distorted guitar, sounds like Jagger.
In the middle -the slide- could be a "shy" playing Taylor, standard tuning (?), but I suspect it to be Keith, cause to the guitarsolo in the middle has the same feel and timing and sounds like Keith.

IMO right for the Open G but the capo is on the 4th fret cos it's played in B
I read once that all guitars were played by Keith.

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jpasc95

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Amsterdamned
My guess:

The intro riff ( Open G, capo = V) and onwards is clearly Keith, on my left-channel.

The right channel is -to my ears- an open G distorted guitar, sounds like Jagger.
In the middle -the slide- could be a "shy" playing Taylor, standard tuning (?), but I suspect it to be Keith, cause to the guitarsolo in the middle has the same feel and timing and sounds like Keith.

IMO right for the Open G but the capo is on the 4th fret cos it's played in B
I read once that all guitars were played by Keith.

No, there's a Jagger guitar, unless the credits are wrong. I agree though that Taylor is probably only bass. Maybe the band on the rhythm track is Taylor: bass, Richards: guitar, Watts: drums, Jagger: guitar. I know there's an edit towards the end where Jimmy Miller takes over drums.

Yeah, surely it's capo IV, not V, as jpasc95 pointed out. Seems like that's a logical reason TD followed Happy on the '72 tour-same tuning, same key.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-28 21:11 by andrewm.

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jpasc95

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Amsterdamned
My guess:

The intro riff ( Open G, capo = V) and onwards is clearly Keith, on my left-channel.

The right channel is -to my ears- an open G distorted guitar, sounds like Jagger.
In the middle -the slide- could be a "shy" playing Taylor, standard tuning (?), but I suspect it to be Keith, cause to the guitarsolo in the middle has the same feel and timing and sounds like Keith.

IMO right for the Open G but the capo is on the 4th fret cos it's played in B
I read once that all guitars were played by Keith.

Yep,Capo= 4

I think Taylor is on bass only.

Thank God we got some live tracks.

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Amsterdamned

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jpasc95

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Amsterdamned
My guess:

The intro riff ( Open G, capo = V) and onwards is clearly Keith, on my left-channel.

The right channel is -to my ears- an open G distorted guitar, sounds like Jagger.
In the middle -the slide- could be a "shy" playing Taylor, standard tuning (?), but I suspect it to be Keith, cause to the guitarsolo in the middle has the same feel and timing and sounds like Keith.

IMO right for the Open G but the capo is on the 4th fret cos it's played in B
I read once that all guitars were played by Keith.

Yep,Capo= 4

I think Taylor is on bass only.

Thank God we got some live tracks.

Of course it's capo IV. Didn't know there was any controversy about that at all.

There was no controversy, just that Amsterdamned referred to it as capo V in his initial post.

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andrewm
There was no controversy, just that Amsterdamned referred to it as capo V in his initial post.

Yes, type-error. Key=B, capo = 4.

Wow no Taylor on that one? That never occurred to me, I always assumed it was him being shy as you guys put it

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champ72
Wow no Taylor on that one? That never occurred to me, I always assumed it was him being shy as you guys put it

Just the bass. You can see him developing his live guitar part in this rehearsal clip, which was posted here recently on another thread:

<object width="480" height="390"><param name="movie" value="

?version=3&amp



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-29 05:53 by 71Tele.

Heh, interesting....I've probably read the credits to the song a gazillion times, and I've always noted that Taylor is on bass...but somehow I didn't also assume that he was ONLY on bass, which means the guitar interplay on this song, which in my mind rivals ANY Stones song EVER, is Richards and Jagger. (???)

[Can this be correct? MT is really not on guitar on this, but only on bass? If that's true, it just confirms in my mind what I've grown to realize over time, that Jagger has made some damn serious contributions on guitar over the years that others may often get credit for.]

For instance, during the outro to this song, that great lick is played by two guitars, the first of which starts the lick at about 2:21. After the second "got to roll me" refrain by the background singers, another one jumps in very loudly playing the same lick. It's just a thing of pure beauty, and that second guitar is...Jagger??? Or is it overdubs of Keith? You can hear that second guitar jump in at the 2:34 mark in the video above. Who plays that? And who plays the first lick that is going on right before this one?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-29 07:24 by rocker1.

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71Tele
...I know there's an edit towards the end where Jimmy Miller takes over drums.

Wow, this is really interesting. Where does the Jimmy Miller drumming take over in this song? Referencing the video above, I hear the drums take on new life at about 3:03 or so, and man, it's fantastic drumming. Jimmy Miller played drums almost as well as Jagger played guitar, evidently!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-29 07:31 by rocker1.

There are at least three guitars on the outro. One sounds like a slide playing little licks fairly high up the neck. An overdub by Keith? The same guitar that did the solo? I think Jagger is just doubling the rhythm and the main lick. We need Mathijs to lend a hand here.

What we know for fact so far is that on stage Richards sticked to the main riff, Taylor played the "middle channel" + the solo, Charlie on drums, Bill on bass and Jagger forgot his guitar and sticked to vocals on the clip below.
That brings in the joy for me and leaves no frustrations as far as the exile track is concerned, cause it's a great 3 guitar track.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-29 13:29 by Amsterdamned.

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rocker1

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71Tele
...I know there's an edit towards the end where Jimmy Miller takes over drums.

Wow, this is really interesting. Where does the Jimmy Miller drumming take over in this song? Referencing the video above, I hear the drums take on new life at about 3:03 or so, and man, it's fantastic drumming. Jimmy Miller played drums almost as well as Jagger played guitar, evidently!

This was talked about in a recent thread. Kudos to the IORRer who discovered this information, but apparently our Charlie was having some trouble with the outro bit and Jimmy took over. Supposedly you can hear exactly where.

It’s actually quite difficult to hear who’s doing what, as the mix is so dense. There’s Keith’s main guitar in the left channel, a guitar low in the right channel, only slightly stroking the B chord. This could be Jagger. There’s a slide guitar in the middle, which is Keith on slide. There’s a guitar overdubbed during the ‘got to roll me’ break, which is doubling Keith’s riff in the other channel. This is Keith as well. Then there’s the solo guitar, the only standard tuned guitar, also Keith. Taylor is on bass, and as far as I can hear not on guitar.

After the break last break, when the drum starts rolling with ‘keep on rolling’ the entire sound spectrum changes. The cymbals and especially the floor tom are panned different than before. It is Jimmy Miller for sure on drums, and I believe this outro part was recorded in LA after the drums of the first part of the song was recorded at Nellcote. Maybe Charlie couldn’t do it, which I consider unlikely, or he was just not present when the recorded it.

Note by the way that Charlie’s drum is double-tracked. He recorded a second time over the first take.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
It’s actually quite difficult to hear who’s doing what, as the mix is so dense. There’s Keith’s main guitar in the left channel, a guitar low in the right channel, only slightly stroking the B chord. This could be Jagger. There’s a slide guitar in the middle, which is Keith on slide. There’s a guitar overdubbed during the ‘got to roll me’ break, which is doubling Keith’s riff in the other channel. This is Keith as well. Then there’s the solo guitar, the only standard tuned guitar, also Keith. Taylor is on bass, and as far as I can hear not on guitar.

After the break last break, when the drum starts rolling with ‘keep on rolling’ the entire sound spectrum changes. The cymbals and especially the floor tom are panned different than before. It is Jimmy Miller for sure on drums, and I believe this outro part was recorded in LA after the drums of the first part of the song was recorded at Nellcote. Maybe Charlie couldn’t do it, which I consider unlikely, or he was just not present when the recorded it.

Note by the way that Charlie’s drum is double-tracked. He recorded a second time over the first take.

Mathijs

Great details. Mathijs...It is amazing that out of such a sonic mess, such glory resulted. Perhaps my single favorite studio Stones track of all time - and that's saying a lot.

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71Tele

Great details. Mathijs...It is amazing that out of such a sonic mess, such glory resulted. Perhaps my single favorite studio Stones track of all time - and that's saying a lot.

A sonic mess it is, especially the right channel with guitar, piano,full brass, and several female backup singers and including Jagger and Richards. All with very little treble range, it just sounds like a fantastic wall of sound.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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71Tele

Great details. Mathijs...It is amazing that out of such a sonic mess, such glory resulted. Perhaps my single favorite studio Stones track of all time - and that's saying a lot.

A sonic mess it is, especially the right channel with guitar, piano,full brass, and several female backup singers and including Jagger and Richards. All with very little treble range, it just sounds like a fantastic wall of sound.

Mathijs

Whatever it is they did, I wish they could do it again.

If only someone could dissect this song the way Gimme Shelter is pulled apart bit by bit here:

Gimme Shelter Deconstructed

So, the guitar interplay on this song that is most prominent is Keith and Keith's Overdubs (esp. noticable during that great outro). Jagger in the mix too, but way behind the Keith parts.

Yes, what a glorious mess.

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71Tele
And is Taylor also on guitar, or just on bass? Would love to hear your thoughts.

Ha, well, just to add to the confusion...

According to the personnel breakdown on the 2010 Deluxe edition of Exile, Taylor plays both guitar and bass. It's a different lineup than what was listed on the original 1972 album...(and although Jimmy Miller is credited with drums on several other tracks, he's not been added to the 2010 version lineup for Tumbling Dice.) Can you ever really believe what you read????

Those credits on the re-release are a joke. For one thing, Bill Wyman has been credited on every track, which we know is not true, unless there are two basses on nine tracks.

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rocker1

Hey, I hadn't seen those, hilarious shit! Nicky, Price and Keys on every track. Who can forget Keith's backing vocals and guitar on Stop Breaking Down and Nicky and Stu's twin pianos on Sweet Virginia?

I doubt this credits, trumpet on "Sweet Virginia"? and no credit for the hand clap on the same song......so I don't believe a shi-t of these accuracy of the credits

__________________________

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71Tele
Those credits on the re-release are a joke. For one thing, Bill Wyman has been credited on every track, which we know is not true, unless there are two basses on nine tracks.

Ha! Yeah, okay, I just stopped reading the re-release credits when I saw "Mick Taylor/guitar, bass." Yeah, wow, who was the poofster who typed this up? Well, I'm glad my post added a bit of hilarity at least to this discussion. And yeah, I'll have to listen again to Sweet Virginia for the trumpet!

I must say Mick's bassplaying is quite basic (= good) bassplaying with a few nice phrasings. I would say very 'Wymanish'....and often you hear it when it's a guitarist who handles a bassguitar. Charlie's bassdrum and the bass are going well together. It's only the abrupt breaks that sound a little weird, but that can be the result of some producers activity.

Good remark. Taylor
on bass with the Stones is down to earth.
You can hear he is a guitarist though,
as he plays a bit more "pronounced" and melodic than Bill,
but he still carries the song.