Tell Me :
Talk
Your kidding right? They make hundreds of millions of dollars on the road, and haven't been on the road in 5 years. Record sales are as 'poor' as everyone else.
Poor reviews??? WTF, where the hell did you pull that from?
Old age...ok, you may have at least an argument, but with all their contemporaries still touring Dylan, McCartney, Plant, that doesn't hold water either.
ABB was a great album...just need to edit out 4-5 songs.
I guess we read different versions of the book...was yours the hard copy, or paperback?
I actually do think they care - like all stars care about what is said of them - the egos involved, the thin-skinned nature of showbiz, the brotherhood of the the band - they're used to dirt from the outside - but from the inside? no way - i'd bet money this was viewed as a violation - probably more by charlie than mick
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-27 17:18 by hbwriter.
Just because one might choose not to think 'Life' is a determining factor does not make it so.
um, yes there is...
i think *most* of the book had not been brought up before!
Of course I am. I bought the book because it's Keith. I decided not to read it...up until it's really over.
I guess it matters what kind of person you are, to see how it could effect Mick. If you are a person who doesn't mind talking about every aspect of your life to everyone who will listen ( like Keith ) you wouldn't be able to understand how this would ruin the band. But of you are a private person ( like Mick ) which I am, I can't see how Mick would ever play with him again.
I don't know how you ever could hang with him again. Not only do you have the probem of wanting to kill him for telling things that you didn't want known, now you have the problem of what to do about this idiot not finding out anything else that he will spout off abot in the press.
I think the best thing that could happen, would be for Mick to punch Keith the exact same way Charlie punched Mick ( we know because keith tells the story over and over ) and then never get near him again. Who wants to hang around with a guy who is really your enemy.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-27 19:23 by brianwalker.
nice and succinct - i like it
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-27 19:20 by hbwriter.
hb, where do you see so much violation of privacy, in the stories behind the songs? Could you give an example?
Lately, I think it is more likely, in talking things over with a few fans, that the parts that bug Mick the most are in the last couple of hundred pages, where Keith is talking about how Mick is gone as a friend to him, a person with whom he used to be close. Mick may have reviewed the book, taking a look at it, and possibly suggesting changes, ones that Keith would never agree to make.
I don't think ANY of the Rolling Stones have ever been on Oprah, and that fact alone makes me love them even more.
I seriously doubt that Mick Jagger gives a rat's ass about Keith's book. THey weathered bigger storms during the 1980's and were able to work together. I speculate that their relationship since the 1980's has been more about business than anything else. And what motivates these guys (especially Mick Jagger) and brings them to tour every 3-5 years has more to do with the gobs of money they will make on the road...
i dunno - books are forever - i think this was different -
I agree with you...I like all the optimism (if you can call it that), stating they are in it for the money, so we shouldn't be worried about a new album and tour (interesting that we are now HOPING they are in it for the money as the main motivation).
Yes, I don't think this looks good...if Soup or Heavy is a hit, Mick may have found a new vehicle.
It's not like they had that many years left anyway, with Keith's gnarly hands...2012 should have been the biggest bang.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 27, 2011 15:38
Quote
The GR
Two solid years on the road, saturation of markets, poor record sales, poor reviews and old age? ABB did it.
Your kidding right? They make hundreds of millions of dollars on the road, and haven't been on the road in 5 years. Record sales are as 'poor' as everyone else.
Poor reviews??? WTF, where the hell did you pull that from?
Old age...ok, you may have at least an argument, but with all their contemporaries still touring Dylan, McCartney, Plant, that doesn't hold water either.
ABB was a great album...just need to edit out 4-5 songs.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: June 27, 2011 15:49
Do you really think MJ and the other Stones care what Keith writes in his book? They are all grown men, and had to deal with (British) tabloids for almost 50 years saying much worse things. I think everyone is taking it waaaay too seriously, looking for small details (no pun) and blowing it up (again, no pun).
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 27, 2011 16:05
Quote
Koen
Do you really think MJ and the other Stones care what Keith writes in his book? They are all grown men, and had to deal with (British) tabloids for almost 50 years saying much worse things. I think everyone is taking it waaaay too seriously, looking for small details (no pun) and blowing it up (again, no pun).
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
I guess we read different versions of the book...was yours the hard copy, or paperback?
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
Single Malt
()
Date: June 27, 2011 16:25
I haven't read the book either but that's mainly because I'm not sure when Keith tells the truth and when not
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
northernale1
()
Date: June 27, 2011 16:43
life has nothing to do with no Rolling Stones announcements,,
the stones are the masters of manipulation, and what i mean by that is anticipation,, the longer they stay quite, the more people anticipate,, builds desire in people,, then when they uncork it will be full throtle,,
and anyone in the Toronto area, is probally starting to hear the rumours trickle out now, that its going to happen,, large amount of touring staff and logistics come from Toronto... and some guys are gearing up for work, is the storys im getting,, we will wait and see,,,
as for Life no it doesnt equal death,, there is nothing in that book that hasnt been brought up before,, only difference is its all in one spot now,,
the stones are the masters of manipulation, and what i mean by that is anticipation,, the longer they stay quite, the more people anticipate,, builds desire in people,, then when they uncork it will be full throtle,,
and anyone in the Toronto area, is probally starting to hear the rumours trickle out now, that its going to happen,, large amount of touring staff and logistics come from Toronto... and some guys are gearing up for work, is the storys im getting,, we will wait and see,,,
as for Life no it doesnt equal death,, there is nothing in that book that hasnt been brought up before,, only difference is its all in one spot now,,
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 27, 2011 16:45
Quote
Koen
Do you really think MJ and the other Stones care what Keith writes in his book? They are all grown men, and had to deal with (British) tabloids for almost 50 years saying much worse things. I think everyone is taking it waaaay too seriously, looking for small details (no pun) and blowing it up (again, no pun).
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: June 27, 2011 17:05
Quote
Koen
Do you really think MJ and the other Stones care what Keith writes in his book? They are all grown men, and had to deal with (British) tabloids for almost 50 years saying much worse things. I think everyone is taking it waaaay too seriously, looking for small details (no pun) and blowing it up (again, no pun).
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
I actually do think they care - like all stars care about what is said of them - the egos involved, the thin-skinned nature of showbiz, the brotherhood of the the band - they're used to dirt from the outside - but from the inside? no way - i'd bet money this was viewed as a violation - probably more by charlie than mick
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-27 17:18 by hbwriter.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: June 27, 2011 17:12
Quote
No Expectations
If they want to continue..they will. If they don't they wont. Don't think "Life" is in any way the determining factor.
Just because one might choose not to think 'Life' is a determining factor does not make it so.
Quote
northernale1
... there is nothing in that book that hasnt been brought up before ...
um, yes there is...
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: June 27, 2011 17:19
Quote
LeonidPQuote
No Expectations
If they want to continue..they will. If they don't they wont. Don't think "Life" is in any way the determining factor.
Just because one might choose not to think 'Life' is a determining factor does not make it so.Quote
northernale1
... there is nothing in that book that hasnt been brought up before ...
um, yes there is...
i think *most* of the book had not been brought up before!
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 27, 2011 17:39
Unluckily, the "todger-comment" got the most attention, and that had been brought up before - as a joke, of course.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-27 17:39 by DandelionPowderman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-27 17:39 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: June 27, 2011 17:42
i think the stuff that probably went over worst was who-wrote-what - totally demystified the process and let's face it - the Stones are all about mystery - plus, given Keith's loose command of facts - it's easy to imagine that his recollections are, being polite, somewhat-less-than-accurate
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: June 27, 2011 17:48
...he definetely open up some scabs.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
phd
()
Date: June 27, 2011 18:03
Quote
Rolling HansieQuote
phd
I just would assume by the reports here and there that it has caused a lot of damages.
And just because of what other people wrote, you decided to not read the book ? You are just kidding, right ?
Of course I am. I bought the book because it's Keith. I decided not to read it...up until it's really over.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
georgeV
()
Date: June 27, 2011 18:25
I am with many of you; I was given the book for Christmas but can't bring myself to read it. I know if a friend of mine announced that I had a tiny todger to the world, I would not be too happy with him and would likely end the friendship. If a colleague did same, I think I would have a very hard tome trying to work together.
I hope they do another tour but let's face it, time is not on theior side: Charlie is 70, Mick turns 68 next month, these guys are not just old, they are elderly. What would a tour really look like?
I hope they do another tour but let's face it, time is not on theior side: Charlie is 70, Mick turns 68 next month, these guys are not just old, they are elderly. What would a tour really look like?
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: June 27, 2011 18:41
i think mick, charlie and woody are up to it physically - i'd hope keith is - though all the arthritic concerns seem real
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
brianwalker
()
Date: June 27, 2011 18:42
Quote
Koen
Do you really think MJ and the other Stones care what Keith writes in his book? They are all grown men, and had to deal with (British) tabloids for almost 50 years saying much worse things. I think everyone is taking it waaaay too seriously, looking for small details (no pun) and blowing it up (again, no pun).
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
I guess it matters what kind of person you are, to see how it could effect Mick. If you are a person who doesn't mind talking about every aspect of your life to everyone who will listen ( like Keith ) you wouldn't be able to understand how this would ruin the band. But of you are a private person ( like Mick ) which I am, I can't see how Mick would ever play with him again.
I don't know how you ever could hang with him again. Not only do you have the probem of wanting to kill him for telling things that you didn't want known, now you have the problem of what to do about this idiot not finding out anything else that he will spout off abot in the press.
I think the best thing that could happen, would be for Mick to punch Keith the exact same way Charlie punched Mick ( we know because keith tells the story over and over ) and then never get near him again. Who wants to hang around with a guy who is really your enemy.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-27 19:23 by brianwalker.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
sweetcharmedlife
()
Date: June 27, 2011 19:11
No.
"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"
"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: June 27, 2011 19:19
Quote
sweetcharmedlife
No.
nice and succinct - i like it
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-27 19:20 by hbwriter.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
angee
()
Date: June 27, 2011 19:56
Quote
hbwriter
The more I look back through "Life" and all that it exposed, the more it seems that it may also have been the final straw/deathknell blow to, if not the Stones, then Jagger's interest in future projects.
Think about how close to the vest Jagger has always played everything - as has the rest of the band.
And think about how much "Life" dishes - the gossip - Keith's versions of stories behind the songs - it's a huge violation of band privacy.
"Life" seems like it may have been the code-violation of the ages - the book all magicians hate - the one that spoils all of the illusions.
This is just my opinion, mind you - no more, no less.
hb, where do you see so much violation of privacy, in the stories behind the songs? Could you give an example?
Lately, I think it is more likely, in talking things over with a few fans, that the parts that bug Mick the most are in the last couple of hundred pages, where Keith is talking about how Mick is gone as a friend to him, a person with whom he used to be close. Mick may have reviewed the book, taking a look at it, and possibly suggesting changes, ones that Keith would never agree to make.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: June 27, 2011 20:02
Angee - the privacy and the songwriting were, for me, two different issues - there were scads of personal things dished in that book - from outing Billy Preston to the todger comment etc - as for the stories behind the songs - he was so fast to take so much credit (referring to himself as the "riffmaster" - gag) that true or not, it's hard to imagine bandmates not looking at this book and saying - why?
and i doubt seriously whether Mick was given a shot at suggestion changes - that's simply not how publishing a memoir works
and i doubt seriously whether Mick was given a shot at suggestion changes - that's simply not how publishing a memoir works
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: June 27, 2011 20:05
...no doubt Mick didn't like it or appreciate it. He took a swipe at Keith in the NY Sunday Times cover story earlier this year basically insinuating Keith did it for the money which goes directly to Keith's image/credibility since he has always professed loudly that it wasn't about the money...that's all your going to get from Jagger...except of course for the high profile guest appearances with U2 and then the Grammy's which all made him look pretty good. Keith's book was interesting, even very good at times but you also can't walk away from it without wondering why he took such a low road with both Anita and Mick. At least Keith didn't go on Oprah and discuss the book there.....that might of been the end of the Rolling Stones.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 27, 2011 22:26
Quote
Rip This
...no doubt Mick didn't like it or appreciate it. He took a swipe at Keith in the NY Sunday Times cover story earlier this year basically insinuating Keith did it for the money which goes directly to Keith's image/credibility since he has always professed loudly that it wasn't about the money...that's all your going to get from Jagger...except of course for the high profile guest appearances with U2 and then the Grammy's which all made him look pretty good. Keith's book was interesting, even very good at times but you also can't walk away from it without wondering why he took such a low road with both Anita and Mick. At least Keith didn't go on Oprah and discuss the book there.....that might of been the end of the Rolling Stones.
I don't think ANY of the Rolling Stones have ever been on Oprah, and that fact alone makes me love them even more.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: June 27, 2011 22:50
...that's right no Oprah...they opted for the Days Of Our Lives soap opera instead.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
proudmary
()
Date: June 27, 2011 23:15
Yes
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
The Sicilian
()
Date: June 28, 2011 02:43
I still think its all staged anger and acrimony. I find it hard to believe that all these accusations and revelations were not discussed between the both of them to some extent.
I think all this is building for a PRE planned tour in 2012 to build tension and interest. These men are professional entertainers not novices. They have the best promoters in the business.
Think of it in terms of boxing and all the hype, especially Ali and others. It is entertainment at its best.
I think all this is building for a PRE planned tour in 2012 to build tension and interest. These men are professional entertainers not novices. They have the best promoters in the business.
Think of it in terms of boxing and all the hype, especially Ali and others. It is entertainment at its best.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
melillo
()
Date: June 28, 2011 03:07
the show must go on, isnt that the old saying? oh and btw the show will go on starting next year IMO
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
Sighunt
()
Date: June 28, 2011 03:26
Quote
Koen
Do you really think MJ and the other Stones care what Keith writes in his book? They are all grown men, and had to deal with (British) tabloids for almost 50 years saying much worse things. I think everyone is taking it waaaay too seriously, looking for small details (no pun) and blowing it up (again, no pun).
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
I seriously doubt that Mick Jagger gives a rat's ass about Keith's book. THey weathered bigger storms during the 1980's and were able to work together. I speculate that their relationship since the 1980's has been more about business than anything else. And what motivates these guys (especially Mick Jagger) and brings them to tour every 3-5 years has more to do with the gobs of money they will make on the road...
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
hbwriter
()
Date: June 28, 2011 03:47
Quote
SighuntQuote
Koen
Do you really think MJ and the other Stones care what Keith writes in his book? They are all grown men, and had to deal with (British) tabloids for almost 50 years saying much worse things. I think everyone is taking it waaaay too seriously, looking for small details (no pun) and blowing it up (again, no pun).
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
I seriously doubt that Mick Jagger gives a rat's ass about Keith's book. THey weathered bigger storms during the 1980's and were able to work together. I speculate that their relationship since the 1980's has been more about business than anything else. And what motivates these guys (especially Mick Jagger) and brings them to tour every 3-5 years has more to do with the gobs of money they will make on the road...
i dunno - books are forever - i think this was different -
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 28, 2011 04:17
Quote
hbwriterQuote
SighuntQuote
Koen
Do you really think MJ and the other Stones care what Keith writes in his book? They are all grown men, and had to deal with (British) tabloids for almost 50 years saying much worse things. I think everyone is taking it waaaay too seriously, looking for small details (no pun) and blowing it up (again, no pun).
I thought it was an honest, candid book, Keith is speaking from his guts, and yes he made some snippy remarks here and there. But for most of the book he was kind to his mates, praising and acknowledging them.
And any publicity is good publicity, the Stones know that more than anyone else.
I seriously doubt that Mick Jagger gives a rat's ass about Keith's book. THey weathered bigger storms during the 1980's and were able to work together. I speculate that their relationship since the 1980's has been more about business than anything else. And what motivates these guys (especially Mick Jagger) and brings them to tour every 3-5 years has more to do with the gobs of money they will make on the road...
i dunno - books are forever - i think this was different -
I agree with you...I like all the optimism (if you can call it that), stating they are in it for the money, so we shouldn't be worried about a new album and tour (interesting that we are now HOPING they are in it for the money as the main motivation).
Yes, I don't think this looks good...if Soup or Heavy is a hit, Mick may have found a new vehicle.
It's not like they had that many years left anyway, with Keith's gnarly hands...2012 should have been the biggest bang.
Re: Could "Life" have been the Death of the Stones?
Posted by:
From4tilLate
()
Date: June 28, 2011 04:49
I agree that Mick probably doesn't give a rat's ass about the book. I also agree that Keith said worse things in the '80s. I also agree that their relationship is strictly business.
Now here's what I think...
I think Keith is by FAR the more egomaniac of the two. And he doesn't see it. I think this from all the interviews I've read, the same way we can only draw conclusions from reading about any historic figure and gauging their statements.
I think Keith fried his brain. I think he rendered his creativity an erratic and unreliable force.
I think "Talk is Cheap" is a brilliant record, because it had to be, because he was thinking a solo career might be all he'd have from then on. "Main Offender" was weak because that pressure wasn't there anymore - the band was back together.
I think it's easy to infer from all of Keith's statements over the decades that he utterly detests Mick, and he's deeply offended that he's dependent on him. When he runs Mick down, he's not kidding. I think he really does hate him.
I think Mick doesn't care about Keith's opinions one way or the other. He doesn't think anymore about Keith than he does of Marianne Faithful or Mick Taylor. Keith is someone who is/was useful to him. Nothing more. I think that's how Mick's mind works.
I think the only opinion Mick cares about is his own opinion about himself. He's had so many things said about him that he cares nothing about what anybody says.
I draw those conclusions only by what I've read and heard about from gossipy sources in Nashville. I reserve the right to be %100 wrong.
Tommy
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-28 04:50 by From4tilLate.
Now here's what I think...
I think Keith is by FAR the more egomaniac of the two. And he doesn't see it. I think this from all the interviews I've read, the same way we can only draw conclusions from reading about any historic figure and gauging their statements.
I think Keith fried his brain. I think he rendered his creativity an erratic and unreliable force.
I think "Talk is Cheap" is a brilliant record, because it had to be, because he was thinking a solo career might be all he'd have from then on. "Main Offender" was weak because that pressure wasn't there anymore - the band was back together.
I think it's easy to infer from all of Keith's statements over the decades that he utterly detests Mick, and he's deeply offended that he's dependent on him. When he runs Mick down, he's not kidding. I think he really does hate him.
I think Mick doesn't care about Keith's opinions one way or the other. He doesn't think anymore about Keith than he does of Marianne Faithful or Mick Taylor. Keith is someone who is/was useful to him. Nothing more. I think that's how Mick's mind works.
I think the only opinion Mick cares about is his own opinion about himself. He's had so many things said about him that he cares nothing about what anybody says.
I draw those conclusions only by what I've read and heard about from gossipy sources in Nashville. I reserve the right to be %100 wrong.
Tommy
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-28 04:50 by From4tilLate.
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