Tell Me :
Talk
They could try this way.
No idea what I did to it there, I went with the flow. Is that a shuffle?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-25 09:25 by GravityBoy.
That's it. Really well put. What really stood out for me is your description of 'greatest pop song of all time'. I don't know in which sense you meant 'pop', or used it instead of 'rock', but I've been lately thinking about this distinction between 'pop' and 'rock'. And what you said suits to my understanding of it. Sorry if I misinterpet you - but it is intentional...
People, even music historians and critics, use the notion of rock distinguished from pop rather anachronistically, and there is nothing wrong with that. But there was a time when 'rock and roll' and 'pop music' meant the same, for example, in Britain teh term 'pop' was first introduced to describe the music teenagers were crazy about, namely, 'rock and roll' (and that notion was very much associated to a certain dance). The snobby blues purists in London were aware of it, and thereby, folks who also liked 'rock and roll' had problems with their credibility in certain jazz-based clubs. We know certain Mick Jagger and especially Keith Richards had trouble with that, and they need to first convince their influental band member Brian Jones that Chuck Berry is basically as authentic blues-based music as Muddy Waters or Elmore James. But for folks like Cyril Davies that was nothing but 'pop music', not to be considered as a serious music form, but just something for kids to dance to.
The early mission of The Stones, when Andrewloogoldhamized, can be put in terms of 'making blues pop' - that is, that type of music, if rightly promoted, could be as commercial as any other pop music winning the hearts of teenager audiences. During the process, however, the band needed to do some compromises more into the direction of mainstream pop (even though, to a lesser than The Beatles). The Stones, following the example of The Beatles, were essentially, and self-consciously, a pop band (and Jagger, for example, has never seen them anything else than that - that's his business). During the time when the Stones conquered America in the wave of British Invasion, the notions of 'rock/and roll' and 'pop music' were still used analogiously. A rhythm/dance based pop' or 'rock' was, for example, in America constrasted to another popular form of music, folk music (the folkies, like the blues purists in Britain, were seriously aware of that).
That is, roughly, the situation in where "Satisfaction", the most succesfull hit in the summer of 1965 in America, happened. The song which made The Stones clearly the world's second biggest pop group internationally. One could say that it transformed the face of pop music forever to a much rougher, daring direction, and had very much stylistically influental what 'rock music', when distinguished from 'pop music', sounds like. But during its heyday, that sort of distinction didn't yet exist. For that distinction to born, even more crucial song was to be released just a month or two later, namely, Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone". The Beatles, with their great song-writing, and The Stones, with their style and attitude, could musically develop the art of pop music into more ambitious, and more 'serious' direction, but it was finally Dylan who, probably having that folk background, could see and treat 'rock and roll' as a form of serious art, as a means of real artistic expression, producing something more valuable than the latest thing in charts. That is, something distinguished from just a commercial pop, but still, possibly, highly popular. The route - mindset - to SGT. PEPPER, BEGGARS BANQUET, The Velvet Underground, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Frank Zappa, etc. was laid there.
However, this is basically why I could also label "Satisfaction" as 'the greatest pop song of all times'. It is still done in the cirmustances that were dictated by the ideas lead by people like Andrew Loog Oldham, and the artists still not being self-consciously awere of their musical significance, but more just 'lucky people in a right place at the right time', taking and using their opportunity, and a place in the sun (and in teenager's hearts) as long as it could last (best scenarios still assumed about two years at most).
There is more to be said about the specific nature of "Satisfaction", but let that to be another post.
Anyway, any thoughts? Counter-claims? The stuff I write is rather hypothetical by nature, based just on some home-made reflections as a music fan who has wasted too many hours of his life listening to music and reading stuff about it...
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-07 11:51 by Doxa.
The Kingsmen
Louie Louie
The dance that the Kingsmen do in this Shindig! clip is amazing!!! I always thought that Louie Louie was a reggae song. Louie Louie vs Satisfaction. I'd rather just dig them both.
That was me posting about the Hard Rain connection.
Also according to what I've read, Keith's Motown inspired riff was only a placeholder until they could get some horns in and Keith wanted a temporary sound that could sustain like a horn section and he came across the Maestro fuzz, then it got released with the fuzz riff.
The words of Satisfaction are a big part of what makes the song what it is IMO.
Great about Hard rain, spot on! However I think he actually "just" (brilliantly) copied Nowhere to run. Lift a hornriff, funk it up, pop it up. Someone probably just told him to forget the horns because that would be to similar. Or, Keith just made that story up.
Yeah, I also think that there are better songs in Stones catalogue ("Gimme Shelter", "Honky Tonk Women", "Jumpin' Jack Flash", "Brown Sugar" comes to mind firstly), but none of them come even close to it in importance. Their best-known song easily. Even though the Stones managed to get through the seventies almost without playing it (and even when playing it, they seemed to struggle in how to deliver it - like the song and its reputation sounding too big to handle), after the nostalgia took over anything, it had been impossible to think a Stones show without it. Nowadays, they don't try even to pretend there are more important songs in their repertuare, so it's place as a great finale of the show is obvious. NO SECURITY TOUR, and giving the song a rest for a while, sounds like the bravest thing they ever do in today's criteria.
I think for many of us hardcore fans the song is way beyond too obvious. Now to think of that, I, for example, very rarely listen the original version at home. BUt when the song unexpectedly pops up somewhere - as it does in many places - it always does the effect on me you describe here. It just captures.
If we are thinking Stones songs in terms of importance - doing something essential to their career - I think after "Satisfaction", and a long mile, comes probably "Jumpin' Jack Flash", re-establishing their credibility in 1968 and giving them a sound that goes along with the sounds of "Satisfaction", but now with a more mature way, and which still defines them. Then "Honky Tonk Women", their biggest hit ever with "Satisfaction", and definitively a song needed at the time when Brian left them and us. "Brown Sugar" brought them to the seventies, with once again irrestible groove and sound. After that I can only think of "Miss You" and "Start Me Up" having that kind role in establishing their relevance when needed, the first showing that they can convincingly adapt to the times, re-invent themselves, and come up with a monster hit. The second, probably having more importance after its heyday than then - showing that the band still come up with a classical sounding Rolling Stones tune, that being a hit and as great and recognizable to bigger crowds as their old classical hits.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-11 13:44 by Doxa.
Spot on and it's Mick who probably felt he had to come up with, create, produce a Stones anthem of its time, to keep the band relevant. He didnt write HTW or JJF on his own and none of these songs were written without major input from another band member, or an outsider, except for Brown Sugar.
Now only this if I am allowed: Instead of angst, I would, approximately, rather say that the verses, society mirroring, express a kind of social alienation with some tedious aspects of consumer myths of mass consumption and, besides, a lethargy with routines and trivialities of everyday life that, in combination, spill over in the refrain even to relationships to the opposite sex and to sexlife. Something like that.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: September 25, 2012 00:06
It's a great composition! It can be played as straight blues, bluegrass western swing or rock and roll, the sign of a fantastic tune.
That being said, I'm tired of the way the Stones have been playing it and I wish they would f u c k with it a bit before playing it on the next round of shows. Can't imagine how Mick can genuinely sing the same song the same way after all these years. peace
That being said, I'm tired of the way the Stones have been playing it and I wish they would f u c k with it a bit before playing it on the next round of shows. Can't imagine how Mick can genuinely sing the same song the same way after all these years. peace
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
buffalo7478
()
Date: September 25, 2012 02:26
Great studio song. I have yet to hear a live version by the Stones that I remotely like...especially in these later years. Actually the best live versions I have heard have been by young punk/garage bands, going off on it. I don't think the problem live with it is Mick, but the rest of the band. They need to play it with fire, and they don't. I can't blame them for being bored with it. I agree with Naturalust that they should try something new with it if they continue to play it at all.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
slew
()
Date: September 25, 2012 04:08
Really the only live versions I like are from 1969 and 1971 they played it differently then. The 1967 versions that I've heard from their European Tour are pretty good also. They play it too fast now and they should change it up if they play again.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: September 25, 2012 09:22
Quote
Naturalust
It's a great composition! It can be played as straight blues, bluegrass western swing or rock and roll, the sign of a fantastic tune.
That being said, I'm tired of the way the Stones have been playing it and I wish they would f u c k with it a bit before playing it on the next round of shows. Can't imagine how Mick can genuinely sing the same song the same way after all these years. peace
They could try this way.
No idea what I did to it there, I went with the flow. Is that a shuffle?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-25 09:25 by GravityBoy.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: August 2, 2013 19:14
Bill is so @#$%& Heavy on Honky Tonk on Ya Ya's....
Just so you know.....
2 1 2 0
Just so you know.....
2 1 2 0
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 7, 2014 11:01
Quote
Silver Dagger
Simply the greatest pop song of all time. The beginning of garage punk, rock and punk itself - all can be traced down to this one incredible gem of a song.
The way it starts up with that incessant riff, that grows and grows and carries Jagger's howling tale of sexual frustration right down the rock'n'roll highway.
It's the song that nearly every hot blooded male - and probably females too - can relate to - not getting your way in a phoney bullshit world. And all the while you're singing your head off to it on the dance floor or in a car imagining all the dumbass authority figures that you just want to blow away.
And you know what - it still sounds just as great today as it did the day it came out. Pure pop genius.
That's it. Really well put. What really stood out for me is your description of 'greatest pop song of all time'. I don't know in which sense you meant 'pop', or used it instead of 'rock', but I've been lately thinking about this distinction between 'pop' and 'rock'. And what you said suits to my understanding of it. Sorry if I misinterpet you - but it is intentional...
People, even music historians and critics, use the notion of rock distinguished from pop rather anachronistically, and there is nothing wrong with that. But there was a time when 'rock and roll' and 'pop music' meant the same, for example, in Britain teh term 'pop' was first introduced to describe the music teenagers were crazy about, namely, 'rock and roll' (and that notion was very much associated to a certain dance). The snobby blues purists in London were aware of it, and thereby, folks who also liked 'rock and roll' had problems with their credibility in certain jazz-based clubs. We know certain Mick Jagger and especially Keith Richards had trouble with that, and they need to first convince their influental band member Brian Jones that Chuck Berry is basically as authentic blues-based music as Muddy Waters or Elmore James. But for folks like Cyril Davies that was nothing but 'pop music', not to be considered as a serious music form, but just something for kids to dance to.
The early mission of The Stones, when Andrewloogoldhamized, can be put in terms of 'making blues pop' - that is, that type of music, if rightly promoted, could be as commercial as any other pop music winning the hearts of teenager audiences. During the process, however, the band needed to do some compromises more into the direction of mainstream pop (even though, to a lesser than The Beatles). The Stones, following the example of The Beatles, were essentially, and self-consciously, a pop band (and Jagger, for example, has never seen them anything else than that - that's his business). During the time when the Stones conquered America in the wave of British Invasion, the notions of 'rock/and roll' and 'pop music' were still used analogiously. A rhythm/dance based pop' or 'rock' was, for example, in America constrasted to another popular form of music, folk music (the folkies, like the blues purists in Britain, were seriously aware of that).
That is, roughly, the situation in where "Satisfaction", the most succesfull hit in the summer of 1965 in America, happened. The song which made The Stones clearly the world's second biggest pop group internationally. One could say that it transformed the face of pop music forever to a much rougher, daring direction, and had very much stylistically influental what 'rock music', when distinguished from 'pop music', sounds like. But during its heyday, that sort of distinction didn't yet exist. For that distinction to born, even more crucial song was to be released just a month or two later, namely, Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone". The Beatles, with their great song-writing, and The Stones, with their style and attitude, could musically develop the art of pop music into more ambitious, and more 'serious' direction, but it was finally Dylan who, probably having that folk background, could see and treat 'rock and roll' as a form of serious art, as a means of real artistic expression, producing something more valuable than the latest thing in charts. That is, something distinguished from just a commercial pop, but still, possibly, highly popular. The route - mindset - to SGT. PEPPER, BEGGARS BANQUET, The Velvet Underground, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Frank Zappa, etc. was laid there.
However, this is basically why I could also label "Satisfaction" as 'the greatest pop song of all times'. It is still done in the cirmustances that were dictated by the ideas lead by people like Andrew Loog Oldham, and the artists still not being self-consciously awere of their musical significance, but more just 'lucky people in a right place at the right time', taking and using their opportunity, and a place in the sun (and in teenager's hearts) as long as it could last (best scenarios still assumed about two years at most).
There is more to be said about the specific nature of "Satisfaction", but let that to be another post.
Anyway, any thoughts? Counter-claims? The stuff I write is rather hypothetical by nature, based just on some home-made reflections as a music fan who has wasted too many hours of his life listening to music and reading stuff about it...
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-07 11:51 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 7, 2014 14:16
Okay, the greatness of this song is greatly covered in this thread, so I just take a little look at its constitution.
It is no doubt their most important song ever. And it is really one of those times when a real miracle happened to them. All the stars were in a right place, and BANG! Well, that was genious is all about - you pick ups certain elements from here and there, add there your idionsyncratic X-factor, and without not any big intention or anything, you come up with a tune that defines the whole era, sounds nothing like ever heard before, and defies a time and place. Just like that. So the stories that Mick and Keith, the masterminds behind it, had second doubts about its commerciality (an A side of single) suits very fine to that accidental, non-intentional atmosphere that surrounds its creation.
As said, there are several influences behind it, almost like its predecessor, "The Last Time", did, but not probably so obvious this time. As noted some time ago here at IORR - and not yet talked in this thread - the model of its most distinguished feature, the guitar riff, does not derive from "Dancing In The Street" by Martha and the Vandellas, but from a different song of theirs, "Nowhere To Run". When that confusion of the songs happened, I don't know. But most likely it was that riff that woke up Keith Richard one night, etc. That there was a new fuzz box round was another lucky accident. Did Keith used to make the riff sound more horn-like, as in "Nowhere to Run", we do not know for sure. His remarks about the song having needed horns, indicated something into that direction.
Anyway, the result was incredible, and its success would cement Keith's instrumental career for good - even though, it would several years until the 'riff-master' would really self-consciously born. I would locate "Jumpin' Jack Flash" to the latter, but the seeds for that riff were to be seen already in "Satisfaction", like in every riff-based song since it. But, however, in the context of "Satisfaction", the riff was just an arrangemential idea to enrich the song, not to constitute it. Just like it was with "The Last Time" before it, and with the songs like "Get Off of My Cloud" and "19th Nervous Breakdown" after. Had Brian invented it, he would not have deserved a credit in their credition policy back then.
But as far as the skeleton of the song goes, I have always have problems seeing it as a "folk song", as it has been called in music literature, until very recent times. Yep, I have understand that the 'social commentary' the song lyrically possess, and the whole idea of having such a dary subject matter, with certain offensive expressions, for a 'pop song', has some Dylanisque influences, like many pop writers at the time started to have. But still I saw that rather vague, and accidental, just sensing very large winds at the time. But just a little time ago someone - sorry I can't remember who - gave us a concrete example of its origin in the works of 'the voice of a generation'. That clicked on me immedeatily. Namely, it is "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall". Not just "I am try, and I try, etc" being a one to one replica of "and it's a hard, and it's a hard" part of the song, the way the three basic elements of the song are constituted reminds the elements of "Hart Rain", Mick and Keith just changing the locations. Dylan ends his point-fingering talk-like delivery with "And it's a hard" part, whereas Mick and Keith locate "And I Try" part before Jagger's 'rant'. Both songs start with a tender ballad-like verse-part. The 'drama' in both songs is pretty similar.
A side note: Richards claimed some years ago how "Satisfaction" was fisrt written as a blues song, and he even demonstrated that by playing an acoustic blues version of it, but that's just historical revisionism, with an entertainment value, I dare to claim. Yeah, the song is based on those three basic blues chords, but I think the more impact influence do not derive from delta blues, but from much more contemporary recording.
The third element, belonging once again more to arrangement department, very much present in the song, and constituting some of its capturing nature, is the beat - the drums. As much Keith's riff makes the song immedeatily recognizable and capturing, Jagger's singing/shouting/talking forever effective and provocative, it is the simple, emphasizing endlessly every hit, work by Charlie Watts that keeps our bodies moving, forces us to dance, and give us no time to rest. Where did he/them get that? Most likely from some rather ordinary dancable pop source at the time, such as "Pretty Woman" By Roy Orbison or something.
But those were just the basic elements, and their influences speculated - you put them all together, add your X-factor there and some important nuances, plus a good day in a studio, and your producer not @#$%& up too much, what you got? An unique masterpiece, the greatest pop song ever done. Pure genious. Hats off!!! Kids, don't try at home, unless you feel damn lucky...
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-07 14:55 by Doxa.
It is no doubt their most important song ever. And it is really one of those times when a real miracle happened to them. All the stars were in a right place, and BANG! Well, that was genious is all about - you pick ups certain elements from here and there, add there your idionsyncratic X-factor, and without not any big intention or anything, you come up with a tune that defines the whole era, sounds nothing like ever heard before, and defies a time and place. Just like that. So the stories that Mick and Keith, the masterminds behind it, had second doubts about its commerciality (an A side of single) suits very fine to that accidental, non-intentional atmosphere that surrounds its creation.
As said, there are several influences behind it, almost like its predecessor, "The Last Time", did, but not probably so obvious this time. As noted some time ago here at IORR - and not yet talked in this thread - the model of its most distinguished feature, the guitar riff, does not derive from "Dancing In The Street" by Martha and the Vandellas, but from a different song of theirs, "Nowhere To Run". When that confusion of the songs happened, I don't know. But most likely it was that riff that woke up Keith Richard one night, etc. That there was a new fuzz box round was another lucky accident. Did Keith used to make the riff sound more horn-like, as in "Nowhere to Run", we do not know for sure. His remarks about the song having needed horns, indicated something into that direction.
Anyway, the result was incredible, and its success would cement Keith's instrumental career for good - even though, it would several years until the 'riff-master' would really self-consciously born. I would locate "Jumpin' Jack Flash" to the latter, but the seeds for that riff were to be seen already in "Satisfaction", like in every riff-based song since it. But, however, in the context of "Satisfaction", the riff was just an arrangemential idea to enrich the song, not to constitute it. Just like it was with "The Last Time" before it, and with the songs like "Get Off of My Cloud" and "19th Nervous Breakdown" after. Had Brian invented it, he would not have deserved a credit in their credition policy back then.
But as far as the skeleton of the song goes, I have always have problems seeing it as a "folk song", as it has been called in music literature, until very recent times. Yep, I have understand that the 'social commentary' the song lyrically possess, and the whole idea of having such a dary subject matter, with certain offensive expressions, for a 'pop song', has some Dylanisque influences, like many pop writers at the time started to have. But still I saw that rather vague, and accidental, just sensing very large winds at the time. But just a little time ago someone - sorry I can't remember who - gave us a concrete example of its origin in the works of 'the voice of a generation'. That clicked on me immedeatily. Namely, it is "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall". Not just "I am try, and I try, etc" being a one to one replica of "and it's a hard, and it's a hard" part of the song, the way the three basic elements of the song are constituted reminds the elements of "Hart Rain", Mick and Keith just changing the locations. Dylan ends his point-fingering talk-like delivery with "And it's a hard" part, whereas Mick and Keith locate "And I Try" part before Jagger's 'rant'. Both songs start with a tender ballad-like verse-part. The 'drama' in both songs is pretty similar.
A side note: Richards claimed some years ago how "Satisfaction" was fisrt written as a blues song, and he even demonstrated that by playing an acoustic blues version of it, but that's just historical revisionism, with an entertainment value, I dare to claim. Yeah, the song is based on those three basic blues chords, but I think the more impact influence do not derive from delta blues, but from much more contemporary recording.
The third element, belonging once again more to arrangement department, very much present in the song, and constituting some of its capturing nature, is the beat - the drums. As much Keith's riff makes the song immedeatily recognizable and capturing, Jagger's singing/shouting/talking forever effective and provocative, it is the simple, emphasizing endlessly every hit, work by Charlie Watts that keeps our bodies moving, forces us to dance, and give us no time to rest. Where did he/them get that? Most likely from some rather ordinary dancable pop source at the time, such as "Pretty Woman" By Roy Orbison or something.
But those were just the basic elements, and their influences speculated - you put them all together, add your X-factor there and some important nuances, plus a good day in a studio, and your producer not @#$%& up too much, what you got? An unique masterpiece, the greatest pop song ever done. Pure genious. Hats off!!! Kids, don't try at home, unless you feel damn lucky...
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-07 14:55 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Keef1966
()
Date: March 7, 2014 21:43
Quote
mitchflorida
For you Charlie Watts fans, listen to the drummer on Louie , Louie and tell me which is more exciting, Watt's playing on Satisfaction or the drummer on Louie?
The Kingsmen's studio version was recorded in one take.
The Kingsmen
Louie Louie
The dance that the Kingsmen do in this Shindig! clip is amazing!!! I always thought that Louie Louie was a reggae song. Louie Louie vs Satisfaction. I'd rather just dig them both.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 8, 2014 01:03
The best boy band anthem ever. And agree 100% with Doxa. And Silver Dagger. I dont know if it's the best pop song but probably. Pop is what it is.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: March 8, 2014 07:34
Quote
Doxa
But as far as the skeleton of the song goes, I have always have problems seeing it as a "folk song", as it has been called in music literature, until very recent times. Yep, I have understand that the 'social commentary' the song lyrically possess, and the whole idea of having such a dary subject matter, with certain offensive expressions, for a 'pop song', has some Dylanisque influences, like many pop writers at the time started to have. But still I saw that rather vague, and accidental, just sensing very large winds at the time. But just a little time ago someone - sorry I can't remember who - gave us a concrete example of its origin in the works of 'the voice of a generation'. That clicked on me immedeatily. Namely, it is "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall". Not just "I am try, and I try, etc" being a one to one replica of "and it's a hard, and it's a hard" part of the song, the way the three basic elements of the song are constituted reminds the elements of "Hart Rain", Mick and Keith just changing the locations. Dylan ends his point-fingering talk-like delivery with "And it's a hard" part, whereas Mick and Keith locate "And I Try" part before Jagger's 'rant'. Both songs start with a tender ballad-like verse-part. The 'drama' in both songs is pretty similar.
- Doxa
That was me posting about the Hard Rain connection.
Also according to what I've read, Keith's Motown inspired riff was only a placeholder until they could get some horns in and Keith wanted a temporary sound that could sustain like a horn section and he came across the Maestro fuzz, then it got released with the fuzz riff.
The words of Satisfaction are a big part of what makes the song what it is IMO.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 8, 2014 12:26
Howled, kudos for you! I thought it was you, but wasn't 100% certain, and too lazy to check...
Yeah, the lyrics make a lot of the song, and that's what I would put under "x factor", that is, due to their unique talent. I don't think anyone else but Mick Jagger - with Keith's genious catch phrase - could have come up with such a spot on reception of the times. And that all frustration still so much married with sex (even not very much that explicitly on lyrics, but c'mon...) And who can 'talk' about and express and sing about sex better than Mick Jagger in 1965. Dylan once famously said (to Keith) that he could have written "Satisfaction", but the Stones boys not "Desolation Row" (or "Mr. Tambourine Man", that seems to vary), which Jagger okayed, but said insightfully, he would like to hear Dylan sing it... Mick is right, but I would go further that Dylan could not have put that implicit sexual tension there, and it is not just singing it, but writing it. I can't think of the lyrics of "Satisfaction" coming out of Dylan's pen. Nor either from McCartney's or Lennon's pen, not to mention lesser names.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-08 12:37 by Doxa.
Yeah, the lyrics make a lot of the song, and that's what I would put under "x factor", that is, due to their unique talent. I don't think anyone else but Mick Jagger - with Keith's genious catch phrase - could have come up with such a spot on reception of the times. And that all frustration still so much married with sex (even not very much that explicitly on lyrics, but c'mon...) And who can 'talk' about and express and sing about sex better than Mick Jagger in 1965. Dylan once famously said (to Keith) that he could have written "Satisfaction", but the Stones boys not "Desolation Row" (or "Mr. Tambourine Man", that seems to vary), which Jagger okayed, but said insightfully, he would like to hear Dylan sing it... Mick is right, but I would go further that Dylan could not have put that implicit sexual tension there, and it is not just singing it, but writing it. I can't think of the lyrics of "Satisfaction" coming out of Dylan's pen. Nor either from McCartney's or Lennon's pen, not to mention lesser names.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-08 12:37 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 8, 2014 12:58
So I need to add to my sayings of the riff of making much what Keith Richards is today, that "Satisfaction" equally made Jagger what he is today. In there he found the role, persona and difference that was somehow implicit in his doings before it, and explicit ever since. One cannot really seperate the lyrics from the way Mick delivers them. The Singer AND the song. That's really is his claim for, how can I say, artistic excellence and independency. And it still sounds so damn fresh, and don't leave one cold after the decades of its heyday. A song that sounds always relevant.
Yeah, it is their 'signature song' - as Mick has described it - in many ways. Song-writers, musicians, performers, public persons. It still defines them.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-08 13:05 by Doxa.
Yeah, it is their 'signature song' - as Mick has described it - in many ways. Song-writers, musicians, performers, public persons. It still defines them.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-08 13:05 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 8, 2014 13:34
Shit, I can't stop... sorry! This song just inspires me to write - it took me, what, three years to say anything of it, and now I have lost any control...
Of its 'signature' role, or being like a fundamental template as a architypical Stones song - Keith said something to the effect that all his riffs derive from it - I think there are two important and concrete instances in where they apply the receipt of success of it, when they most need it.
The first instance is "Let's Spend The Night Together". After the succesfull experiment to find new paths in AFTERMATH, and then the relative failure of "Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby?" they needed a 'safe and sure' hit to show that they are still on the very top, and able to produce big hit songs. If we look the more explicitly poppish "Let's Spend The Night Together", there is a lot of "Satisfaction" in it. That's exactly the sexual theme Jagger first mastered, even though rather implicitly, in "Satisfaction", put now really upfront. Jagger continues there from where he left us in "Satisfaction". And if we look the piano riff of it, shit, it's the "Satisfaction" riff replicated there, with a little variance, played now with a piano. Even Charlie's drums seem to follow the idea of "Satisfaction" giving us that dancable beat.
The other instance is, of course, "Jumpin' Jack Flash", another variant of THE riff. That 'back to the familiar ground' was needed after the uneven psychedelic experiment of SATANIC MAJESTIES. In a way, "Flash" was their first real rock song (see my long rant of 'pop'/'rock' distinction above), and offered us a lot of new elements, including a more threatening Jagger persona, and the whole guitar riff-based way to see songs, but however, there is still much of template of "Satisfaction" there, if we compare it to the stuff they did in 1966 and 1967.
Probably it is time for me to move to "Flash" thread now, since it looks like I am heading there...
- Doxa
P.S. As I say "Flash" was their first 'rock song', I need to add that I see the whole 'psychedelic' phase of theirs - as like with anyone else - as a way to get rid of the old 'pop' idiom, and treat rock and roll as an art form of its own, the path Dylan opened up with "Like A Rolling Stone". So SATANIC MAJESTIES is really an important transformation phase from 'pop' to 'rock' for the Stones. Some others probably were a bit ahead of them in getting to the artistically 'important' form of rock music (The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, The Cream, etc.), but the Stones catched them - and probably took the lead - with "Flash" and BEGGARS BANQUET.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-08 13:58 by Doxa.
Of its 'signature' role, or being like a fundamental template as a architypical Stones song - Keith said something to the effect that all his riffs derive from it - I think there are two important and concrete instances in where they apply the receipt of success of it, when they most need it.
The first instance is "Let's Spend The Night Together". After the succesfull experiment to find new paths in AFTERMATH, and then the relative failure of "Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby?" they needed a 'safe and sure' hit to show that they are still on the very top, and able to produce big hit songs. If we look the more explicitly poppish "Let's Spend The Night Together", there is a lot of "Satisfaction" in it. That's exactly the sexual theme Jagger first mastered, even though rather implicitly, in "Satisfaction", put now really upfront. Jagger continues there from where he left us in "Satisfaction". And if we look the piano riff of it, shit, it's the "Satisfaction" riff replicated there, with a little variance, played now with a piano. Even Charlie's drums seem to follow the idea of "Satisfaction" giving us that dancable beat.
The other instance is, of course, "Jumpin' Jack Flash", another variant of THE riff. That 'back to the familiar ground' was needed after the uneven psychedelic experiment of SATANIC MAJESTIES. In a way, "Flash" was their first real rock song (see my long rant of 'pop'/'rock' distinction above), and offered us a lot of new elements, including a more threatening Jagger persona, and the whole guitar riff-based way to see songs, but however, there is still much of template of "Satisfaction" there, if we compare it to the stuff they did in 1966 and 1967.
Probably it is time for me to move to "Flash" thread now, since it looks like I am heading there...
- Doxa
P.S. As I say "Flash" was their first 'rock song', I need to add that I see the whole 'psychedelic' phase of theirs - as like with anyone else - as a way to get rid of the old 'pop' idiom, and treat rock and roll as an art form of its own, the path Dylan opened up with "Like A Rolling Stone". So SATANIC MAJESTIES is really an important transformation phase from 'pop' to 'rock' for the Stones. Some others probably were a bit ahead of them in getting to the artistically 'important' form of rock music (The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, The Cream, etc.), but the Stones catched them - and probably took the lead - with "Flash" and BEGGARS BANQUET.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-08 13:58 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
slew
()
Date: March 8, 2014 16:45
Doxa _ I always enjoy reading your comments. I agree with you about Satisfaction. I cannot believe some Stones fans can slag this one. This song put the Rolling Stones where only The Beatles had ever been and they have remained there ever since. Do they have better songs? I think that they do but this song is easily the most important song of their career. I have read through the comments about Louie Louie, You Really Got Me and All Day and Al of the Night and they are all great songs for sure. However, none of them of the overall feel of Satisfaction. It is just so full of angst and Jagger sings it like he means it. Keith's riff is the most recognizable riff in the history of rock music. I don't listen to it as much as I used to but when it does come on that riff still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up and I get goosebumps thinking back on all of the fun I've had while this song played and I got satisfaction more than once or twice because of this tune!! Overated no freakin way!!! The greatest anthem in rock history!!
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 9, 2014 00:22
Quote
howledQuote
Doxa
But as far as the skeleton of the song goes, I have always have problems seeing it as a "folk song", as it has been called in music literature, until very recent times. Yep, I have understand that the 'social commentary' the song lyrically possess, and the whole idea of having such a dary subject matter, with certain offensive expressions, for a 'pop song', has some Dylanisque influences, like many pop writers at the time started to have. But still I saw that rather vague, and accidental, just sensing very large winds at the time. But just a little time ago someone - sorry I can't remember who - gave us a concrete example of its origin in the works of 'the voice of a generation'. That clicked on me immedeatily. Namely, it is "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall". Not just "I am try, and I try, etc" being a one to one replica of "and it's a hard, and it's a hard" part of the song, the way the three basic elements of the song are constituted reminds the elements of "Hart Rain", Mick and Keith just changing the locations. Dylan ends his point-fingering talk-like delivery with "And it's a hard" part, whereas Mick and Keith locate "And I Try" part before Jagger's 'rant'. Both songs start with a tender ballad-like verse-part. The 'drama' in both songs is pretty similar.
- Doxa
That was me posting about the Hard Rain connection.
Also according to what I've read, Keith's Motown inspired riff was only a placeholder until they could get some horns in and Keith wanted a temporary sound that could sustain like a horn section and he came across the Maestro fuzz, then it got released with the fuzz riff.
The words of Satisfaction are a big part of what makes the song what it is IMO.
Great about Hard rain, spot on! However I think he actually "just" (brilliantly) copied Nowhere to run. Lift a hornriff, funk it up, pop it up. Someone probably just told him to forget the horns because that would be to similar. Or, Keith just made that story up.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Reagan
()
Date: March 9, 2014 18:35
Quick poll: At the 35 second mark, is that click noise the sound of Keith hitting the pedal to switch the fuzz box on?
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 11, 2014 13:33
Quote
slew
Doxa _ I always enjoy reading your comments. I agree with you about Satisfaction. I cannot believe some Stones fans can slag this one. This song put the Rolling Stones where only The Beatles had ever been and they have remained there ever since. Do they have better songs? I think that they do but this song is easily the most important song of their career. I have read through the comments about Louie Louie, You Really Got Me and All Day and Al of the Night and they are all great songs for sure. However, none of them of the overall feel of Satisfaction. It is just so full of angst and Jagger sings it like he means it. Keith's riff is the most recognizable riff in the history of rock music. I don't listen to it as much as I used to but when it does come on that riff still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up and I get goosebumps thinking back on all of the fun I've had while this song played and I got satisfaction more than once or twice because of this tune!! Overated no freakin way!!! The greatest anthem in rock history!!
Yeah, I also think that there are better songs in Stones catalogue ("Gimme Shelter", "Honky Tonk Women", "Jumpin' Jack Flash", "Brown Sugar" comes to mind firstly), but none of them come even close to it in importance. Their best-known song easily. Even though the Stones managed to get through the seventies almost without playing it (and even when playing it, they seemed to struggle in how to deliver it - like the song and its reputation sounding too big to handle), after the nostalgia took over anything, it had been impossible to think a Stones show without it. Nowadays, they don't try even to pretend there are more important songs in their repertuare, so it's place as a great finale of the show is obvious. NO SECURITY TOUR, and giving the song a rest for a while, sounds like the bravest thing they ever do in today's criteria.
I think for many of us hardcore fans the song is way beyond too obvious. Now to think of that, I, for example, very rarely listen the original version at home. BUt when the song unexpectedly pops up somewhere - as it does in many places - it always does the effect on me you describe here. It just captures.
If we are thinking Stones songs in terms of importance - doing something essential to their career - I think after "Satisfaction", and a long mile, comes probably "Jumpin' Jack Flash", re-establishing their credibility in 1968 and giving them a sound that goes along with the sounds of "Satisfaction", but now with a more mature way, and which still defines them. Then "Honky Tonk Women", their biggest hit ever with "Satisfaction", and definitively a song needed at the time when Brian left them and us. "Brown Sugar" brought them to the seventies, with once again irrestible groove and sound. After that I can only think of "Miss You" and "Start Me Up" having that kind role in establishing their relevance when needed, the first showing that they can convincingly adapt to the times, re-invent themselves, and come up with a monster hit. The second, probably having more importance after its heyday than then - showing that the band still come up with a classical sounding Rolling Stones tune, that being a hit and as great and recognizable to bigger crowds as their old classical hits.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-11 13:44 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Kirk
()
Date: March 12, 2014 22:39
Quote
Reagan
Quick poll: At the 35 second mark, is that click noise the sound of Keith hitting the pedal to switch the fuzz box on?[/quote
Exactly. I always thought it was the switch. It sounds exactly like this!!
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 13, 2014 11:30
Quote
KirkQuote
Reagan
Quick poll: At the 35 second mark, is that click noise the sound of Keith hitting the pedal to switch the fuzz box on?[/quote
Exactly. I always thought it was the switch. It sounds exactly like this!!
Adding a little audio magic. Compare to how Keith's guitar seemingly "wakes up" on Midnight Rambler (studio).
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: March 13, 2014 11:35
HO HO... .... ...HO HO
Sympathy for the devil....
2 1 2 0
Sympathy for the devil....
2 1 2 0
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 13, 2014 11:37
Quote
DoxaQuote
slew
Doxa _ I always enjoy reading your comments. I agree with you about Satisfaction. I cannot believe some Stones fans can slag this one. This song put the Rolling Stones where only The Beatles had ever been and they have remained there ever since. Do they have better songs? I think that they do but this song is easily the most important song of their career. I have read through the comments about Louie Louie, You Really Got Me and All Day and Al of the Night and they are all great songs for sure. However, none of them of the overall feel of Satisfaction. It is just so full of angst and Jagger sings it like he means it. Keith's riff is the most recognizable riff in the history of rock music. I don't listen to it as much as I used to but when it does come on that riff still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up and I get goosebumps thinking back on all of the fun I've had while this song played and I got satisfaction more than once or twice because of this tune!! Overated no freakin way!!! The greatest anthem in rock history!!
Yeah, I also think that there are better songs in Stones catalogue ("Gimme Shelter", "Honky Tonk Women", "Jumpin' Jack Flash", "Brown Sugar" comes to mind firstly), but none of them come even close to it in importance. Their best-known song easily. Even though the Stones managed to get through the seventies almost without playing it (and even when playing it, they seemed to struggle in how to deliver it - like the song and its reputation sounding too big to handle), after the nostalgia took over anything, it had been impossible to think a Stones show without it. Nowadays, they don't try even to pretend there are more important songs in their repertuare, so it's place as a great finale of the show is obvious. NO SECURITY TOUR, and giving the song a rest for a while, sounds like the bravest thing they ever do in today's criteria.
I think for many of us hardcore fans the song is way beyond too obvious. Now to think of that, I, for example, very rarely listen the original version at home. BUt when the song unexpectedly pops up somewhere - as it does in many places - it always does the effect on me you describe here. It just captures.
If we are thinking Stones songs in terms of importance - doing something essential to their career - I think after "Satisfaction", and a long mile, comes probably "Jumpin' Jack Flash", re-establishing their credibility in 1968 and giving them a sound that goes along with the sounds of "Satisfaction", but now with a more mature way, and which still defines them. Then "Honky Tonk Women", their biggest hit ever with "Satisfaction", and definitively a song needed at the time when Brian left them and us. "Brown Sugar" brought them to the seventies, with once again irrestible groove and sound. After that I can only think of "Miss You" and "Start Me Up" having that kind role in establishing their relevance when needed, the first showing that they can convincingly adapt to the times, re-invent themselves, and come up with a monster hit. The second, probably having more importance after its heyday than then - showing that the band still come up with a classical sounding Rolling Stones tune, that being a hit and as great and recognizable to bigger crowds as their old classical hits.
- Doxa
Spot on and it's Mick who probably felt he had to come up with, create, produce a Stones anthem of its time, to keep the band relevant. He didnt write HTW or JJF on his own and none of these songs were written without major input from another band member, or an outsider, except for Brown Sugar.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: March 13, 2014 12:28
Hard Rain and Satisfaction follow the same sort of format but Satisfaction has some bits rearranged.
The "Cause I try" bit (corresponding to the "And it's a hard" bit) is put into an earlier place in Satisfaction and doesn't go to the chorus end bit (It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall) and in Satisfaction it has been rearranged into being a pre expanse bit leadup.
General feel and structure are very similar in the expanse section.
The "Cause I try" and "And it's a hard" section are basically the same.
So they just rearranged Hard Rain and wrote new lyrics and had the motown riff accompanying on the expanse section (and the start).
Loads of songwriters of well known songs have used rearranged bits from other songs btw and just about all songwriters do it including Lennon and McCartney.
Satisfaction isn't Hard Rain, but Satisfaction is modelled on Hard Rain to a fair extent.
-------------------------------------
Start section
I can't get no satisfaction
Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?
I can't get no satisfaction
And where have you been my darling young one?
-------------------------------------------------
Satisfaction pre expanse section and Hard Rain's chorus section.
'Cause I try and I try and I try and I try
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard
I can't get no, I can't get no
-> goes straight to expanse sections chords
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.
->end of Hard Rain's chorus
-----------------------------------------------
Expanse section
When I'm drivin' in my car
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
And that man comes on the radio
I've walked and I've crawled on six crooked highways
And he's tellin' me more and more
I've stepped in the middle of seven sad forests
About some useless information
I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans
Supposed to fire my imagination
I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-13 12:42 by howled.
The "Cause I try" bit (corresponding to the "And it's a hard" bit) is put into an earlier place in Satisfaction and doesn't go to the chorus end bit (It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall) and in Satisfaction it has been rearranged into being a pre expanse bit leadup.
General feel and structure are very similar in the expanse section.
The "Cause I try" and "And it's a hard" section are basically the same.
So they just rearranged Hard Rain and wrote new lyrics and had the motown riff accompanying on the expanse section (and the start).
Loads of songwriters of well known songs have used rearranged bits from other songs btw and just about all songwriters do it including Lennon and McCartney.
Satisfaction isn't Hard Rain, but Satisfaction is modelled on Hard Rain to a fair extent.
-------------------------------------
Start section
I can't get no satisfaction
Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?
I can't get no satisfaction
And where have you been my darling young one?
-------------------------------------------------
Satisfaction pre expanse section and Hard Rain's chorus section.
'Cause I try and I try and I try and I try
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard
I can't get no, I can't get no
-> goes straight to expanse sections chords
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.
->end of Hard Rain's chorus
-----------------------------------------------
Expanse section
When I'm drivin' in my car
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
And that man comes on the radio
I've walked and I've crawled on six crooked highways
And he's tellin' me more and more
I've stepped in the middle of seven sad forests
About some useless information
I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans
Supposed to fire my imagination
I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-13 12:42 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: March 13, 2014 23:20
Quote
slew
Doxa _ I always enjoy reading your comments. I agree with you about Satisfaction. I cannot believe some Stones fans can slag this one. This song put the Rolling Stones where only The Beatles had ever been and they have remained there ever since. Do they have better songs? I think that they do but this song is easily the most important song of their career. I have read through the comments about Louie Louie, You Really Got Me and All Day and Al of the Night and they are all great songs for sure. However, none of them of the overall feel of Satisfaction. It is just so full of angst and Jagger sings it like he means it. Keith's riff is the most recognizable riff in the history of rock music. I don't listen to it as much as I used to but when it does come on that riff still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up and I get goosebumps thinking back on all of the fun I've had while this song played and I got satisfaction more than once or twice because of this tune!! Overated no freakin way!!! The greatest anthem in rock history!!
Now only this if I am allowed: Instead of angst, I would, approximately, rather say that the verses, society mirroring, express a kind of social alienation with some tedious aspects of consumer myths of mass consumption and, besides, a lethargy with routines and trivialities of everyday life that, in combination, spill over in the refrain even to relationships to the opposite sex and to sexlife. Something like that.
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
AussieMark
()
Date: March 13, 2014 23:28
Bottom line: it's a great pop song and always fills the dance floor whether it's a live band playing the song or a DJ. That makes it a winner from many angles.
Cheers
Mark
[rollingstoned.com.au]
[facebook.com]
Cheers
Mark
[rollingstoned.com.au]
[facebook.com]
Re: Track Talk: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: March 13, 2014 23:56
Well, yes, I have always considered Satisfaction to be both a rock and a pop song at the same time. At its time it was even more than a pop song, when Satisfaction could be rather menacing. It was a vehicle for the dangerous Rolling Stones such as it was played in Paris in 1967, which for some time has been my favourite version, apart from the studio version.
In addition I also fancy the version one finds at Stones at the Beep, as it was called
[grooveshark.com]
Quote
slew
Really the only live versions I like are from 1969 and 1971 they played it differently then. The 1967 versions that I've heard from their European Tour are pretty good also. They play it too fast now and they should change it up if they play again.
In addition I also fancy the version one finds at Stones at the Beep, as it was called
[grooveshark.com]
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