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kovach

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shortfatfanny

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boston2006
Vets also came from , The Korean War , The Vietnam War, Bay of Pigs Invasion , Grenada ,US Invasion of Panama ,Persian Gulf War , Intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina , Invasion of Afghanistan , Invasion of Iraq , Invasion of Libya .

These men and women should be thanked also .

Can hardly imagine any reason why to be thankful for invading for example vietnam...

That was a political decision that should in no way be held against those servicemen who were just doing their job as a result of that decision.

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mr_dja
I thank all of my veterans and their families for the sacrifices they've made and the hardships they've carried on all of our behalf.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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ineedadrink
let's give credit where credit is due. Donovan didn't write Universal Soldier. Buffy Sainte-Marie did.

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The Sicilian
All these stories as the US observes the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War.

Hostilities began on April 12, 1861, when Confederate forces attacked a U.S. military installation at Fort Sumter in South Carolina.

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MKjan
Great respect for the troops, very little for most of the government policies that have put them in harms way, and very little respect for the harsh way vets are treated back home.

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kleermaker

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mr_dja
I thank all of my veterans and their families for the sacrifices they've made and the hardships they've carried on all of our behalf.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Is that really true?

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mr_dja

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kleermaker

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mr_dja
I thank all of my veterans and their families for the sacrifices they've made and the hardships they've carried on all of our behalf.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Is that really true?

Yes. It's really true.

And "Welcome Back" kleermeker... Been a while since I've seen you around here. Hope all is well for you and yours.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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Rockman
Tim Hetherington maker of the award winning war doco Restrepo has be
killed while covering fighting between Muammar Gaddafi's forces and the opposition.

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kleermaker

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mr_dja

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kleermaker

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mr_dja
I thank all of my veterans and their families for the sacrifices they've made and the hardships they've carried on all of our behalf.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Is that really true?

Yes. It's really true.

And "Welcome Back" kleermeker... Been a while since I've seen you around here. Hope all is well for you and yours.

Peace,
Mr DJA

You mean: 'I think it's true'.

One don't have to be a Socrates to prove you're wrong and that the assumption that all veterans have to be hailed is a wrong assumption. I just have translated Plato's dialogue 'Gorgias'. In that dialogue Socrates talks about politics and about what's right and what's wrong, using logic, by asking and answering questions, in an interesting and instructive way.

Thanks for welcoming me and asking, and yes I'm fine!

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mr_dja

"I thank US veterans and their families for the sacrifices they've made and the hardships they've carried on behalf of the citizens of the USA."

No, that is not true. They didn't make any sacrifices etc. on behalf of the citizens of the USA. That's what the powers that be want you (and me) to believe.

Regarding your translation of Plato's dialogue... Would I be correct in assuming that your translation was to something other than English? I love philosophy and, although I don't always understand it, love to read it, think about it, learn from it, etc. If your translation is to English and you're not trying to make a profit from it, I'd love to read it. After all... Today's always a good day to learn something new. (Surely Plato & Socrates couldn't get me on that statement, could they?)

I translated it indeed from Greek into Dutch. So alas! And yes, Socrates would praise you for that attitude, willing to learn something new, under condition that it will be something good, so that you will be better. He wouldn't advice you to learn something bad, because it would make you worse. So you also have to find out if that 'something' is something good or bad or in between good and bad: neutral.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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kleermaker

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mr_dja

"I thank US veterans and their families for the sacrifices they've made and the hardships they've carried on behalf of the citizens of the USA."

No, that is not true. They didn't make any sacrifices etc. on behalf of the citizens of the USA. That's what the powers that be want you (and me) to believe.

DJA replies:
I think our definition of "sacrifice" may be slightly different. By my standards, which are mine, and most likely different than yours, they sacrifice much just by enlisting in the armed forces. Using my logic (which is not Plato's or Socrates and can be twisted at times) since the armed forces exist, at least theoretically in my mind, "on behalf of the citizens" the sacrifices I see are therefore done on behalf of the citizens (though I wouldn’t limit it to that or exclude other possible reasons as well).

Now regarding "the powers that be" and what they want... Though I don't know you or your thoughts THAT well, based on the way I took that part of your comment, I do think you and I would be "preaching to the choir" if we started on that subject. I also think we'd fast get to the point where, because not everyone on the board would be in agreement, bv's lines would be crossed and this would get very political very quickly which is not something I want to do. Even though I think you and I would be in moderate agreement on that part of the subject, I don't know that the rest of the board would feel the same way. Kudos to all participating for keeping this discussion on a theoretical level and not personally attacking each other or their beliefs. Actually, right now it's pretty much just me & kleermaker doing the talking... I hope we're not offending anyone. That's not my intent and I don't get the impression that it's kleermaker's either.

---------

Regarding your translation of Plato's dialogue... Would I be correct in assuming that your translation was to something other than English? I love philosophy and, although I don't always understand it, love to read it, think about it, learn from it, etc. If your translation is to English and you're not trying to make a profit from it, I'd love to read it. After all... Today's always a good day to learn something new. (Surely Plato & Socrates couldn't get me on that statement, could they?)

I translated it indeed from Greek into Dutch. So alas! And yes, Socrates would praise you for that attitude, willing to learn something new, under condition that it will be something good, so that you will be better. He wouldn't advice you to learn something bad, because it would make you worse. So you also have to find out if that 'something' is something good or bad or in between good and bad: neutral.

DJA Replies:
Not wanting to turn this into a conversation on Greek philosophy... (but having someone who apparently is far more knowledgeable on the subject than I am at my disposal is somewhat irresistible to me!) Doesn't Socrates have some exception for learning something bad if you're able to take that knowledge and use it to either reaffirm or strengthen your good beliefs? Does that make sense to you? I know that a lot of our conversation in this thread has to do with grammar, vocabulary definitions, and personal interpretation of the words being used and that last question is awkward by my standards but I can't think off the top of my head how to word it better!

Peace,
Mr DJA

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kleermaker
Thanks for welcoming me and asking, and yes I'm fine!

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shortfatfanny

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kleermaker
Thanks for welcoming me and asking, and yes I'm fine!

Actually it´s become usual here to open a thread when leaving or returning the board...

Nevertheless...welcome back,my favourite board vet...

sorry..didn´t want to interrupt the debate...just couldn´t resist.

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mr_dja

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shortfatfanny

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kleermaker
Thanks for welcoming me and asking, and yes I'm fine!

Actually it´s become usual here to open a thread when leaving or returning the board...

Nevertheless...welcome back,my favourite board vet...

sorry..didn´t want to interrupt the debate...just couldn´t resist.

Shortfatfanny,

You can feel free to interrupt (or participate in) my debates anytime... I'm not always real sure that my side's worth listening to anyway. Plus, after that Statue of Liberty story you told, I'm willing to give you at least one mulligan! Still smiling thinking about that one. If it ever becomes appropriate to tell, I'll share a similar experience I had when I was a visitor on a Soviet military base in the former DDR (that is the old EAST Germany, right?) back in 1991. For now, we'll leave that for another time.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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Blue
As a U.S. Army veteran of "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and an infrequent poster here, just had to pipe in and appreciate the support shown by some of the users, very proud of helping to support our efforts to combat Al Qaida in Iraq, as well as Afghanistan, and yes, they were in Iraq; and would do it again in a heartbeat, some may remember 9/11/01 and who wanted this fight. (KNOW this is off topic, but HAD to comment).

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Blue
You are very kind AngieBlue....you are a brave Mom..I took care of Soldiers and Marines as an Army Nurse for a year over there, caring for brave sons (and daughters) probably much like your son..and consider it a great honor. When one was wounded or sadly Kia.... The very first thought was that of the mother..so Thank YOU for your sacrifice. I hope all is well with your son.... I can't believe I am saying this on a Rolling Stones site!

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Stoneage

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Blue
As a U.S. Army veteran of "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and an infrequent poster here, just had to pipe in and appreciate the support shown by some of the users, very proud of helping to support our efforts to combat Al Qaida in Iraq, as well as Afghanistan, and yes, they were in Iraq; and would do it again in a heartbeat, some may remember 9/11/01 and who wanted this fight. (KNOW this is off topic, but HAD to comment).

I'm sorry but this is too much. The Iraqi war was an illegal war started on false premises (there were no weapons of mass destruction). Al Qaida wasn't based in Iraq (Saddam didn't allow that). The war, that still goes on, didn't "free" the Iraqi people (the situation in Iraq is, in many ways, worse now than before the war). As I see it, the Iraqi war was a very expensive (both in human lives and economical costs) way to get rid of Saddam Hussein and his government (and secure oil reserves).

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Stoneage
Okay Stoneage...what in the world makes a war "legal", that is ridiculous, a war is a war, and if Saddam wanted us to know he had no WMD, he should have allowed inspections, instead of playing "chicken" with the U.S., and contrary to your beliefs, Saddam was a supporter of several extremist terrorists groups granting money to families of suicide bombers, and providing safe-haven; including to master-mind Masab al Zarqawi, who was treated in a Baghdad hospital before 2003. Zarqawi became the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq up north near Mosul, he was responsible for chlorine gas attacks(a type of chemical warfare, by the way, its "illegal") in 2006 on hundreds of Iraqi civilians, I saw this firsthand in our hospital and treated several of these civilians, he was responsible for several beheadings of civilians, and the attacks in Jordan that killed our ambassador Foley. We have not received a drop of oil, or a penny of profit from Iraqi oil, (which would actually come in handy). In fact, our presence in Iraq did allow the Iraqi people to elect their own government, and is certainly more free than it was before. Remember, Saddam, along with his sons, was known as "The Butcher of Baghdad".

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Blue
As a U.S. Army veteran of "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and an infrequent poster here, just had to pipe in and appreciate the support shown by some of the users, very proud of helping to support our efforts to combat Al Qaida in Iraq, as well as Afghanistan, and yes, they were in Iraq; and would do it again in a heartbeat, some may remember 9/11/01 and who wanted this fight. (KNOW this is off topic, but HAD to comment).

I'm sorry but this is too much. The Iraqi war was an illegal war started on false premises (there were no weapons of mass destruction). Al Qaida wasn't based in Iraq (Saddam didn't allow that). The war, that still goes on, didn't "free" the Iraqi people (the situation in Iraq is, in many ways, worse now than before the war). As I see it, the Iraqi war was a very expensive (both in human lives and economical costs) way to get rid of Saddam Hussein and his government (and secure oil reserves).

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The Sicilian

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Stoneage

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Blue
As a U.S. Army veteran of "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and an infrequent poster here, just had to pipe in and appreciate the support shown by some of the users, very proud of helping to support our efforts to combat Al Qaida in Iraq, as well as Afghanistan, and yes, they were in Iraq; and would do it again in a heartbeat, some may remember 9/11/01 and who wanted this fight. (KNOW this is off topic, but HAD to comment).

I'm sorry but this is too much. The Iraqi war was an illegal war started on false premises (there were no weapons of mass destruction). Al Qaida wasn't based in Iraq (Saddam didn't allow that). The war, that still goes on, didn't "free" the Iraqi people (the situation in Iraq is, in many ways, worse now than before the war). As I see it, the Iraqi war was a very expensive (both in human lives and economical costs) way to get rid of Saddam Hussein and his government (and secure oil reserves).

Don't blame the soldiers for the war. They have to go and obey when told to do so. Though they are the proxy for the government, the choice to be there is not debatable.