I don't know what to do to blow the cloud of negativity, that floats on this thread, away...

OH YES! Someone on the torrent site Dime has just cleaned the attic and posted his reels of some 73 show... And it appears to be the "lost" Bern 1973-09-25 gig*. And it's presented in very nice quality and the show rocks.

Bliss...

* = it's not any of the two shows available on VGP's "Swiss Made".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-19 00:10 by dcba.

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dcba
Someone on the torrent site Dime has just cleaned the attic and posted his reels of some 73 show... And it appears to be the "lost" Bern 1973-09-25 gig*. And it's presented in very nice quality and the show rocks.

Yes it's a real gift. Not often we get an uncirculated early 70s recording served.....without it being just "an alternate source" - at least not in *this* quality
Last NEW show that got into circulation was Helsinki 2-3 years ago, but the quality was poor tho' - but not in this case. Can't wait to download once I return from vacation
link: [www.dimeadozen.org]

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Rocky Dijon
Slew, you bring up an excellent point in that to me the lyrics are the only let-down. Had the lyrics been reworked to resemble something approaching coherency, this track would have made the grade. As it is, there is a great riff, great playing, and great vocal performance. The let-down is that the lyrics never really make any sense which damns the song to be nothing more than an officially released outtake that never really fits as a missing piece of a puzzle since the lyrics are just a sketch.

My apologies for helping to take the thread back on topic.

I would go a bit further in complaining its unfinished form. To me the whole vocals section is unfinished. There is no real point in its 'melody' yet. As an analogy, it reminds me of the Keith version of "Soul Survivor" released last year - just coping with the riff/chord sequence. Most likely Jagger would have had worked both the lyrics and the melody in same token to get it right if he would have wanted to finish the track properly.

But as a basic outtake track I see it as a lost treasure. There is so much potentiality. It is one of the greatest riffs The Stones ever have accomplished (and that means a lot). It is hypnotic and sticking into your very brains as the best Stones riffs always are and do. This is also the reason why we call its era as a "golden period". They had luxury to throw away gems like this one. I have sometimes complained the post-1986/9 era of its laziness, that the guys don't have jam enough to work the tracks properly. But listening to stuff like I'm Going Down" and comparing anything they have released since DIRTY WORK or something one can also understand why they are not so much interested in working the tracks further. The ideas they start with are not so inspiring in the first place. One can hear when there is a muse present and when there is not.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-19 12:32 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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Rocky Dijon
Slew, you bring up an excellent point in that to me the lyrics are the only let-down. Had the lyrics been reworked to resemble something approaching coherency, this track would have made the grade. As it is, there is a great riff, great playing, and great vocal performance. The let-down is that the lyrics never really make any sense which damns the song to be nothing more than an officially released outtake that never really fits as a missing piece of a puzzle since the lyrics are just a sketch.

My apologies for helping to take the thread back on topic.

I would go a bit further in complaining its unfinished form. To me the whole vocals section is unfinished. There is no real point in its 'melody' yet. As an analogy, it reminds me of the Keith version of "Soul Survivor" released last year - just coping with the riff/chord sequence. Most likely Jagger would have had worked both the lyrics and the melody in same token to get it right if he would have wanted to finish the track properly.

But as a basic outtake track I see it as a lost treasure. There is so much potentiality. It is one of the greatest riffs The Stones ever have accomplished (and that means a lot). It is hypnotic and sticking into your very brains as the best Stones riffs always are and do. This is also the reason why we call its era as a "golden period". They had luxury to throw away gems like this one. I have sometimes complained the post-1986/9 era of its laziness, that the guys don't have jam enough to work the tracks properly. But listening to stuff like I'm Going Down" and comparing anything they have released since DIRTY WORK or something one can also understand why they are not so much interested in working the tracks further. The ideas they start with are not so inspiring in the first place. One can hear when there is a muse present and when there is not.

- Doxa

Funny you should say that because there is something very Dirty Work-esque (the best of the guitar parts on the album, that is) with the I'm Going Down-riff.

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DandelionPowderman
there is something very Dirty Work-esque [...] with the I'm Going Down-riff.

True. Well spotted!

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Bärs

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DandelionPowderman
there is something very Dirty Work-esque [...] with the I'm Going Down-riff.

True. Well spotted!

I would have said "It must be hell" from Undercover...

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marcovandereijk

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Bärs

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DandelionPowderman
there is something very Dirty Work-esque [...] with the I'm Going Down-riff.

True. Well spotted!

I would have said "It must be hell" from Undercover...

I hear One Hit to the Body in the riff.

Personally I find the riff to be dull and uninspired compared to much of their work from that time. It's a-typical cliche open G variation on a theme which soon made the stones records very predictable and boring.

I guess i'm just really bored with the open G sound in the context of Rolling Stones music. It was a challeng and sparked lots of inspired music to begin with, but also became a bit of a safety net resulting in quite a lot of repition of the same kinda things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-19 14:41 by His Majesty.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-19 15:04 by Amsterdamned.

Personally I find the riff to be dull and uninspired compared to much of their work from that time. It's a-typical cliche open G variation on a theme which soon made the stones records very predictable and boring.

I guess i'm just really bored with the open G sound in the context of Rolling Stones music. It was a challeng and sparked lots of inspired music to begin with, but also became a bit of a safety net resulting in quite a lot of repition of the same kinda things.<HM>

Agreed. Thank God Keith - with all respect- was a good songwriter/ player but a relief to hear there was room for other variations and a free style player like Taylor.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-19 15:41 by Amsterdamned.

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His Majesty
Personally I find the riff to be dull and uninspired compared to much of their work from that time. It's a-typical cliche open G variation on a theme which soon made the stones records very predictable and boring.

I guess i'm just really bored with the open G sound in the context of Rolling Stones music. It was a challeng and sparked lots of inspired music to begin with, but also became a bit of a safety net resulting in quite a lot of repition of the same kinda things.

Well, I hear the riff somehow unique in its own terms. It is played straightforward without those typical Keith "breathing moments" - without dramatic pauses a'la "Brown Sugar", "Start Me Up", etc - that makes the Stones to "roll". It paints the whole background of teh song and doesn't give a listener one second time escape. It constant presence makes it more like a riff of "The Last Time", now through the OpenG-formula. (I need to say because of not having that "silence is musician's best friend" or "you paint on silence" philosophy of Keith's I also been a bit symphatic to the propability that perhaps it is not Keith there, but more 'traditional player' - but I don't want to go to that discussion...)

To my ears there is something "deep" and "bluesy" in that riffage that excites me. That interesting mood. Like the riff 'talks' something. I can't see real closiness to DIRTY WORK period actually, as suggested here. It has that golden era dark moody blues feeling in it, like "Sway" or "Bitch" or something. The DIRY WORLk riffs are so 80's stadion rock-like attacks, without the deep reflection 1968-71 era had. I can see the comparison to "One Hit", and technically speaking there is some resemblance but a closer look revails the difference in 'feeling' and 'attitude' they have. There is no tiny bit of blues in "One Hit".

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-19 17:34 by Doxa.

But over-all I agree with His Majesty that by the mid-70's all inspiration that the Open G made possible were used by then (by 1972 probably). IT'S ONLY ROCK'N*ROLL album is a testimony of that the muse is gone and "safety net" left. But I see "I'm Going Down" still as an inspired variation of the Open G possibilities. Still reflecting some new musical territories to conquer.

- Doxa

Being as I'm stuck at home and bored, I've come across some interesting tidbits about this tune. I was actually researching "Jiving Sister Fanny", when I came across this:

"In 1975, I made my recording debut, playing congas on the Rolling Stones’ “Metamorphosis” album (“Jivin Sister Fanny” and “Goin Down”) produced by Andrew Loog Oldham." – Jon Tiven (studio musician) [musicrepublicmagazine.com]

Also from an interview:

Me: And what's this? You once played session guitar for the Stones? Was this because Keith or Ronnie couldn't make it? How was that experience? What song was it?

Jon: Not guitar, congas, Andrew Loog Oldham invited me to the studio and next thing I know he's got me banging on a set of congas on "Jivin Sister Fanny" and "I'm Going Down," which appeared on the "Metamorphosis" album.


What made me look this up was a review of the album from 1975 that said this guy played congas on "Jiving Sister Fanny". So Oldham ran an overdub session in the mid-seventies. Felix and other researchers list Tiven as playing guitar on "Jiving Sister Fanny", which is not true.

This leads me to believe the sax on here is an overdub by a session musician as well; just a hunch, but it doesn't sound very "Bobby Keys" to me. I'm not even sure where people got the idea Rocky Dijon played on it, remember, many credits list Bill Plummer on bass.

i'm going down off metamorphosis. does anyone know what guitar k.richards used for the track. les paul? also, is that m taylor or bill plummer playing bass or neither.just curious. thanx

Love this song. Pretty sure mathijs can help out.

Should have been track 10 on Let it Bleed or on Sticky Fingers replacing You’ve Got To Move



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-18 21:51 by Taylor1.

hhhhaaaa... but then you'd
never know anything about Fred McDowell ......



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
hhhhaaaa... but then you'd
never know anything about Fred McDowell ......

Well if I was around in 1969 I would v have seen Mick and Keithsitting on stools in Madison Square Garden performing it

Hey yeah but if ya hadda been around a
lil earlier ya might caught Fred knockin'
it out in front of his home in Como Mississippi ..... hhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



ROCKMAN