Most of you guys seem pretty harsh as far as that goes, almost every topic has a bunch of you fools letting him have it in some way or another of this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and if thats your thats fine but you might think to take a few things into consideration. To start with the guy is almost 70 and no matter what you do in your life when your pushing that age your going to slow down in some ways no matter what, thats life. You also have the fact that while maybe giving up the drugs themselves the guy has been an alcoholic since pretty much forever and that doesnt help his case in any way at all. I heard like most people he gave up or cut back immensely on the booze about a year ago and if thats true and the stones go out to play again im sure his playing would improve to some extent, how much who knows. Bottom line is the guys going to be turing 68 and no matter how bad you people want to believe hes not going to play like hes 25 again sorry to break it to you. Except that it is what it is and just hope maybe were lucky enough to see him and the stones together one more time before its over, I know i am. Long live keith!!!

how do you know that people who have the opinion you dislike haven't taken the factors you've listed into consideration? Everything you wrote is common knowledge. It sounds like you actually agree that keith's playing has declined. So what's the problem?

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msw2525
Most of you guys seem pretty harsh as far as that goes, almost every topic has a bunch of you fools letting him have it in some way or another of this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and if thats your thats fine but you might think to take a few things into consideration. To start with the guy is almost 70 and no matter what you do in your life when your pushing that age your going to slow down in some ways no matter what, thats life. You also have the fact that while maybe giving up the drugs themselves the guy has been an alcoholic since pretty much forever and that doesnt help his case in any way at all. I heard like most people he gave up or cut back immensely on the booze about a year ago and if thats true and the stones go out to play again im sure his playing would improve to some extent, how much who knows. Bottom line is the guys going to be turing 68 and no matter how bad you people want to believe hes not going to play like hes 25 again sorry to break it to you. Except that it is what it is and just hope maybe were lucky enough to see him and the stones together one more time before its over, I know i am. Long live keith!!!

stop bashing keef, you keef hater!!!!

No hate from me, msw2525, but considering the passion in your post and "see him and the stones together one more time before its over, I know i am"
makes me think you might be a bit closer to Keith than any of us.

Would you care to elaborate ?

I don't know about "Hate" but I will say that a lot of eyebrows were raised when it was known that Keith ridiculed the size of Mick's todger in his autobiography for no good reason. That goes beyond the pale of diplomacy and showed the thoughtlessness of the man. The other thing that people are getting tired of is the constant posing and pretending he's a bad-ass and carrying a "blade" in case he finds himself in a knife fight. Puh-Leeeze. What a load of manure. Thirdly is his propensity to embelish the facts to make it seem like everything revolves around him or enemanates from his talent and everyone else is a wannabe (plus the man simply makes a lot of shit up). His declining guitar playing abilities are, actually, last on the list of things we hold against him. Getting old, damaging your brain and getting arthritis are simply things that happen to everyone eventually. We're not blaming him for that.

"Current guitar skills"? from his own mouth he has not picked up a guitar in a long time.

"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"

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msw2525
Most of you guys seem pretty harsh as far as that goes, almost every topic has a bunch of you fools letting him have it in some way or another of this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and if thats your thats fine but you might think to take a few things into consideration. To start with the guy is almost 70 and no matter what you do in your life when your pushing that age your going to slow down in some ways no matter what, thats life. You also have the fact that while maybe giving up the drugs themselves the guy has been an alcoholic since pretty much forever and that doesnt help his case in any way at all. I heard like most people he gave up or cut back immensely on the booze about a year ago and if thats true and the stones go out to play again im sure his playing would improve to some extent, how much who knows. Bottom line is the guys going to be turing 68 and no matter how bad you people want to believe hes not going to play like hes 25 again sorry to break it to you. Except that it is what it is and just hope maybe were lucky enough to see him and the stones together one more time before its over, I know i am. Long live keith!!!

Personally, I don't care how much his skills may have declined. I love the man dearly, (my kind of people) and want him on stage with the rest of his mates no matter what.

Once again there are folks who unfortunately cannot discern between disappointment, criticism and "hate". It's really your problem, not ours. I suggest you join some sort of "Keith Is Dreamy" type site. You might enjoy that more. What we do here is discuss the Rolling Stones and their music, which includes the very real issue of the decline of the band and the individual players' skills and/or commitment. I sincerely doubt that anyone here "hates" Keith - quite the contrary.

I wasnt arguing anything about the quality of his skills or lack there of today just trying to point out that a lot of people on this board seem to attack him for not being the same player he was 5, 10, or 20 years ago and im not really sure why? Age catches up with everyone is my point and thats no reason to give the guy hell for it.

71tele, am i not discussing the band and one of its members current status as a player in that band these days and how is skills are or are not what they once were? And how that plays into their music? Seriously relax man just putting in my two cents is all. Oh and yes i already started the keith is dreamy site and got quite a few members thank you very much.

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msw2525
Most of you guys seem pretty harsh as far as that goes, almost every topic has a bunch of you fools letting him have it in some way or another of this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and if thats your thats fine but you might think to take a few things into consideration...

I think it comes down to this- you seem to have a realistic and sensible take on the situation, but many don't. And when those who don't come on with their, "It's a done deal, Keith will prove you all wrong next time" crap, it's aggravates those of us who know that's probably not even possible at this point, let alone likely, and in stating our case, Keith gets pretty beat up.

In other words, the hate isn't so much towards Keith, as it is those who seem to refuse to accept the fact that he hasn't just lost a little with age, but that he's actually a shadow of his former self.

Plus, after thinking he was such a great guy for so long, many of us have come to realize that he's actually as big a prick (i.e., as human) as everyone else is.

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msw2525
Most of you guys seem pretty harsh as far as that goes, almost every topic has a bunch of you fools letting him have it in some way or another of this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and if thats your thats fine but you might think to take a few things into consideration. To start with the guy is almost 70 and no matter what you do in your life when your pushing that age your going to slow down in some ways no matter what, thats life. You also have the fact that while maybe giving up the drugs themselves the guy has been an alcoholic since pretty much forever and that doesnt help his case in any way at all. I heard like most people he gave up or cut back immensely on the booze about a year ago and if thats true and the stones go out to play again im sure his playing would improve to some extent, how much who knows. Bottom line is the guys going to be turning 68 and no matter how bad you people want to believe hes not going to play like hes 25 again sorry to break it to you. Except that it is what it is and just hope maybe were lucky enough to see him and the stones together one more time before its over, I know i am. Long live keith!!!

I'm scratching my head and trying to figure out why everyone but you who points out the above and accepts it as being perfectly natural and to be expected is described as a 'Keith hater'

There is no hate here. The critic against Keith are based in his own stupid statements about Mick. Sometimes Keith is his own worst enemy. If he was a bit more diplomatic in his way of expressing himself, things could have been much smoother and probably also much better between Mick and Keith.

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thewatchman
Personally, I don't care how much his skills may have declined. I love the man dearly, (my kind of people) and want him on stage with the rest of his mates no matter what.

what if he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease? you'd prefer to have him on stage in such a sad state that he makes a fool of himself for your enjoyment?

There's a great deal of passion when it comes to this subject. Sometimes the box is better left closed.

CBII

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msw2525
I wasnt arguing anything about the quality of his skills or lack there of today just trying to point out that a lot of people on this board seem to attack him for not being the same player he was 5, 10, or 20 years ago and im not really sure why? Age catches up with everyone is my point and thats no reason to give the guy hell for it.

name one of these people on this board...i haven't read any of what you say...and i read alot of what is posted here.

Don't worry, Keith doesn't mind.

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msw2525
Most of you guys seem pretty harsh as far as that goes, almost every topic has a bunch of you fools letting him have it in some way or another of this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and if thats your thats fine but you might think to take a few things into consideration. To start with the guy is almost 70 and no matter what you do in your life when your pushing that age your going to slow down in some ways no matter what, thats life. You also have the fact that while maybe giving up the drugs themselves the guy has been an alcoholic since pretty much forever and that doesnt help his case in any way at all. I heard like most people he gave up or cut back immensely on the booze about a year ago and if thats true and the stones go out to play again im sure his playing would improve to some extent, how much who knows. Bottom line is the guys going to be turing 68 and no matter how bad you people want to believe hes not going to play like hes 25 again sorry to break it to you. Except that it is what it is and just hope maybe were lucky enough to see him and the stones together one more time before its over, I know i am. Long live keith!!!

HATE is not the word. It is the frustration of him not even TRYING. Only POSING

gazza i have yet to see anyone else make the points i was making and if they have obviously there is no hate from them as they seem to have an understanding on life and physical effects of age. So perhaps you might want reread the post cause you seem to have missed the point, im making those points in response to the people who dont seem to understand the logic of getting older and how it slows everyone down.

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CBII
There's a great deal of passion when it comes to this subject. Sometimes the box is better left closed.

Probably because everyone here aknowledges that, in a live setting, Keith is the Rolling Stones. If he can't perform or if he half-performs and spends 1h40 mugging for the cameras and the people at the front row, the show's gonna be poor...

His decline is the whole band's decline.

It's rock and roll, and his recent playing is good enough for me; it's not like he has to play what Joe Pass would play, which Keith never could have played.

And I wonder how much is superimposing. One thing that grates on me is when I've seen YouTube interview clips with rock stars with reputations for substance abuse but who are perfectly lucid and sober in these certain interview clips. Even though they are perfectly sober in these certain clips, some idiots in the comments beneath often say, "He's totally stoned here!!" I'm thinking of sober clips of Keith and Jim Morrison, where they'll be perfectly lucid, but some viewers will superimpose intoxication on them even when it's not there. I suspect that sometimes happens with Keith's recent guitar playing.

The only reason I really care about the effect of what Keith wrote on the other Rolling Stones is if it prevents them touring.
I don't see any evidence that it has. We are speculating so much with so many hopes and such passion (yes, CBII).

The one time Keith said he hadn't picked up a guitar much recently was during his appearance with Jimmy Fallon
almost a year ago.

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mickscarey

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msw2525
Most of you guys seem pretty harsh as far as that goes, almost every topic has a bunch of you fools letting him have it in some way or another of this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and if thats your thats fine but you might think to take a few things into consideration. To start with the guy is almost 70 and no matter what you do in your life when your pushing that age your going to slow down in some ways no matter what, thats life. You also have the fact that while maybe giving up the drugs themselves the guy has been an alcoholic since pretty much forever and that doesnt help his case in any way at all. I heard like most people he gave up or cut back immensely on the booze about a year ago and if thats true and the stones go out to play again im sure his playing would improve to some extent, how much who knows. Bottom line is the guys going to be turing 68 and no matter how bad you people want to believe hes not going to play like hes 25 again sorry to break it to you. Except that it is what it is and just hope maybe were lucky enough to see him and the stones together one more time before its over, I know i am. Long live keith!!!

HATE is not the word. It is the frustration of him not even TRYING. Only POSING

POSING!

Bingo!

I love Keith and Ron, but I do make fun of them at times. The guiter playing has been so awful at times, but, the POSING, the air guitar posturing, is spot-on no matter how bad the sound from the speakers is. They always hit the mark! Standing on one leg while bending at the waist and making upward swinging arm motion. The kneeling and using the guitar as a mortar to bombard the audience. The guitar turned sideways and extended from the waist as grenade launcher. Noise.

You get the picture. We have all seen it 'live.' I am sure there was a thread during the last tour about precisely this, maybe even a video.

Theatrical displays of muscular guitar playing are no substitute for actual guitar playing.

The effects of age and drink and drug abuse are, however, factored in. Unfortunately the sloppy guitar work is not a new development so there is more to it than age and health. Also what needs to be considered is Keith's 'you're either a guitar player, or you're not' thing. That means there is no 'I am a lead guitar player and you're rhythm' consideration. That's where Keith has historically come from. That was an issue in Mick Taylor's frustrations with this band. And therein remains an old problem for the Stones made even more urgent if there is another tour. SFTD's solo has, ahem, sucked at times.

If they tour, and Keith and Ron are as sober and healthy as possible, Ron should play lead exclusively, and Keith rhythm. They may sound the best in years if this occurs. They could consider even a third guitar(MT?) front and center.

Sorry, I'm a fan who hope that this band goes out on a musical high-note.

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msw2525
gazza i have yet to see anyone else make the points i was making and if they have obviously there is no hate from them as they seem to have an understanding on life and physical effects of age. So perhaps you might want reread the post cause you seem to have missed the point, im making those points in response to the people who dont seem to understand the logic of getting older and how it slows everyone down.

I think everyone understands the logic and facts of ageing. Nobody is getting younger. I don't think you understand people's right's to have their own opinion. We all love the Stones and Keith Richard's. People have differing views as to his playing abilities over the last 20 years or so. His book also left some peopel feeling a bit colder towards him. Also Keith talks a lot about wanting to play.The love of the music.Yet has become a virtual recluse while not on tour.

I understand people having their own opinions, i mentioned it in the original post, guess i didnt expect some people to take what i said in a seemingly personal way to themselves. I wasnt and his playing has me confused. stirred up a bit of a hornets nest to some people it seems

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msw2525
stirred up a bit of a hornets nest to some people it seems

Sometimes ain't hard to do 'round here!

Hate is a strong word. People can have an opinion without hating.

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msw2525
gazza i have yet to see anyone else make the points i was making and if they have obviously there is no hate from them as they seem to have an understanding on life and physical effects of age. So perhaps you might want reread the post cause you seem to have missed the point, im making those points in response to the people who dont seem to understand the logic of getting older and how it slows everyone down.

I think while there's a frustration at his inactivity or perceived inability to play to the level he used to, from what I can see there's a widespread acceptance from most people that he a) has had a great career and doesnt owe us another note of music and anything at this stage is a bonus, b) he's had health issues in recent years which are naturally going to adversely affect his playing ability. I'd agree that there are some people who can't see the human side of that and cant accept that age and infirmity are an issue, but I think it's not that many to be honest.

I find very often on here - and this isn't a personal criticism, so please don't take it that way - that everyone (or at worst most people) who doesnt find everything in the Stones garden to be rosey is dismissed as a 'Stones hater' or a 'whiner'.

I actually find it to be the opposite. Most people have a reasonable sense of perspective and judge something as good or bad solely on it's own merits instead of from the irrational perspective that is often the case with fans who elevate their 'heroes' to god-like status.

As said above, 'hate' is a strong word, and in this case, a very inaccurate one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-03 02:18 by Gazza.

gazza i pretty much agree with everything you just said, and im well aware that hate is a strong word but many times it tends to be accurate to in describing some of the things that get said. But at any rate you made some good points above and i agree the hate from most is probably few and far between. Not trying to call anyone out it was just the way i decided to word the post is all.

msw2525=addicted,this sounds way too familiar ><

"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"