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jamesfdouglas
No, they're not the best tracks at all. They're what the masses ingested through MTV though. But can't the same be said for any decade??

Your probably right here, if you take the hits from the 70ties 70's you get the same ...no Stones no LedZ ..........No nothing (well almost)

[www.superseventies.com]

This is a list to fill a CD

[www.digitaldreamdoor.com]

__________________________

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NICOS

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jamesfdouglas
No, they're not the best tracks at all. They're what the masses ingested through MTV though. But can't the same be said for any decade??

Your probably right here, if you take the hits from the 70ties 70's you get the same ...no Stones no LedZ ..........No nothing (well almost)

[www.superseventies.com]

This is a list to fill a CD

[www.digitaldreamdoor.com]

These are their 70s and 80s lists respectively.

[www.digitaldreamdoor.com]

[www.digitaldreamdoor.com]

The eighties list seems a little better than the previous one, but not much. But I could definitely fill a couple of CDs with seventies tracks. For both only selecting from the top 100. Early seventies were a golden era of pop; much better than the eighties.

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StonesTod
i think what's been learned here is that a more appropriate title of this thread would have been:

"when did my interest in popular music truly begin to die"

But a title like this would require some degree of self awareness or awareness of the meaning of pop music...

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lsbz
The eighties list seems a little better than the previous one, but not much. But I could definitely fill a couple of CDs with seventies tracks. For both only selecting from the top 100. Early seventies were a golden era of pop; much better than the eighties.

I think there were a few good songs in the early eighties, lsbz, like 'Town Called Malice' by the Jam, 'Come On Eileen' by Dexys Midnight Runners, and even 'Do You Really Want To Hurt Me?' by Culture Club, and a host of others. Some of these songs may not be exclusively to my taste, perhaps, but i think they work pretty well on their own terms. However, as i have said previously as we approach the mid eighties, i think the quality diminishes rather significantly, and certainly well before the second half of the eighties, a large proportion of the music definitely begins to have more of a manufactured feel, as technology begins to take over, and seemingly everything begins to have that ulta commercial eighties glossy, and almost disposable sound, irrespective of genre. A sweeping statement, perhaps, and i'm quite sure within the context of of the latter half of the eighties catalogue of hits, there may be exceptions, and not mentioning some of the songs on album releases, yet it does seem predominantly quite difficult scouring the surface to really find too many examples of alternatives. The great thing about popular music up until the eighties, is within its various styles or genre, there wasn't such a need for it to be diluted to fit some latest fad. By the mid eighties, certainly, most popular music, certainly music which was successful commercially, pretty much had to conform to some glossy eighties stereotype, which did become ever more manufactured sounding as technology took an ever greater hold. Whatever style a particular song may have originally took as its primary reference, got watered down to fit some eighties clean, and often synthetically manufactued gloss. Seventies music, generally, within is various styles, actually did manage to remain independant within its own genre, which resulted in its much more of an authentic take on its original source. The sound of seventies music is so incredibly diverse, it is pretty much impossible to pigeonhole a 'seventies' sound, such was the authenticity of it within its various forms. Eighties music, generally is the complete opposite, where pretty much most of it, as the eighties progressed, conformed very much to its lowest common denominator, especially what was considered to be that of the time. Individuality pretty much began to take a back seat. I'm with you though, lsbz, i think the early seventies was in retrospect, some kind of golden era in popular music. By the mid seventies, there was still much great popular music around, although it had also became rather indulgent in some quarters. However, the seventies as a whole does remain mightily impressive, fundamentally.

If there is a saving grace to popular music of the eighties, (and in my opinion, sometimes as the eighties progressed, that became increasingly hard to find) it is that there remained pretty much an element of fun to the sounds that were dominating the airwaves. Shallow and superficial, they may have been, music may have been a little trivial, perhaps, yet it remained pretty catchy too (even if at times it was irritatingly so ). If you only choose to look at pop in those terms only, then the eighties wasn't quite so underwhelming bad as maybe more recent times. Today, you are lucky to even find that, certainly on the larger scale.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-07 09:49 by Edward Twining.

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Edward Twining
The sound of seventies music is so incredibly diverse, it is pretty much impossible to pigeonhole a 'seventies' sound, such was the purity of it within its various forms.

I would foremost characterize it as very professional, in songwriting, production and performance. Early seventies is when pop producers began to use rock effects and sounds, which gave pop more depth and maturity. At that time you had an almost perfect balance between pop and rock. For me personally it's when I first started listening to pop music regularly, as I was in my early teens, which made it an even more magical time.

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lsbz

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Edward Twining
The sound of seventies music is so incredibly diverse, it is pretty much impossible to pigeonhole a 'seventies' sound, such was the purity of it within its various forms.

I would foremost characterize it as very professional, in songwriting, production and performance. Early seventies is when pop producers began to use rock effects and sounds, which gave pop more depth and maturity. At that time you had an almost perfect balance between pop and rock. For me personally it's when I first started listening to pop music regularly, as I was in my early teens, which made it an even more magical time.

You are dead right, lsbz. Whatever the origins of a particular song (gospel, rock, etc), in the early seventies, more contemporary elements may have been brought into the mix to further enhance the mood, but the songs never lost sight of their core values. There just wasn't the trade off that existed in the eighties, where sacrifices were made to an extreme with regard to the songs core values, in the process of attempting to acquire a hit. There may have been some really promising songs of great potential hiding behind all that eighties gloss and overproduction. That's something perhaps we will never know.

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Edward Twining
There may have been some really promising songs of great potential hiding behind all that eighties gloss and overproduction.

No, I don't think so; you can't overproduce good songs away. The eighties strong point was new wave type of arrangement, like for instance in Ultravox's Vienna. I think it's a rather typical song of the eighties, saying nothing but with much atmosphere and original arrangement. You could also see it as that the way of songwriting changed, but I don't. Those songs are considerably weaker than we had before; the accent shifted from songwriting to arrangement. To compensate for that, maybe overproduction was needed.

Pop music is still alive and well, unfortunately.

In the marketplace, Pop has 80% vs 20% for rock.

It sucks, but pop will always be popular simply because it appeals to the lowest common denominator. Simply music, catchy tunes, make for easy sales.

Hence the term Pop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-07 16:55 by Strider.

As soon as RAP started . Those guys are so unorriginal it isn't even funny. And they SUCK

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lsbz

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Edward Twining
There may have been some really promising songs of great potential hiding behind all that eighties gloss and overproduction.

No, I don't think so; you can't overproduce good songs away. The eighties strong point was new wave type of arrangement, like for instance in Ultravox's Vienna. I think it's a rather typical song of the eighties, saying nothing but with much atmosphere and original arrangement. You could also see it as that the way of songwriting changed, but I don't. Those songs are considerably weaker than we had before; the accent shifted from songwriting to arrangement. To compensate for that, maybe overproduction was needed.

I definitely agree with you with regards to the songwriting being weaker in a more general sense, lsbz. However, also many of those eighties tracks also lack the subtelty and sensitivity found in the music that pre dates the period. Eighties music, certainly post the beginning of the MTV era, is almost music designed for those who aren't especially music lovers particularly, with perhaps the very shortest attention span, who never want to get really too close to a song in an emotional sense, but are seduced by the general flashy nature of the music business generally, especially with regards to the image that runs alongside the songs ie. the video. It's therefore pretty much a highly superficial package.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-07 19:24 by Edward Twining.

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When it stopped being fun like this.

>When it stopped being fun like this.


Are you being facetious? I can't tell. I certainly never thought of the Eagles as "fun".

I always liked this eighties pop song, though.





I heard it on the radio after several years the other day and it took me right back to the summer of 1983. It is a pretty little song and has an early eighties feel, for sure, but as i have said previously i still think there were a few memorable pop songs around at this point. It enters my consciousness in a way that modern pop never does. In other words it stands out. Moving forward just a year or two, and songs like this became increasingly hard to find within the morose nature of corporate manufactured pop.

Glam Descendant: The demo reel was for the 70s, not the Eagles in particular. Although 'Witchy Woman' was kind of goofy.

Oh, you mean Wit-Chay Woman!

I was going to say with the advent of MTV, but that's too easy. I remember how exciting it was in the early days to see what the musicians looked like playing good music (much like the Midnight Special and Don Kirshner's Rock Concert earlier). Of course the visuals overtook the music, and people starting writing music they could make a good video for rather than the opposite. That was sort of a nail in the coffin...

I was also thinking with the advent of the synthesizer. But, there were many prog rock acts that made good use of that...and others that used them either because they were lazy or lacked the skill to play an instrument...which leads me to...

Disco. Another easy target. And unfortunately, funk gets caught up in that, as well as the Bee Gees, both of which produced credible music in my opinion. But the disco with prerecorded and looped drum/bass parts I think was the start of music's downfall. And I still don't get rap's longevity, I assumed it too would last a few years and go the way of disco.

Thankfully like all new toys, the fad started to where off some and you had a new crop of guitar based bands coming out again and things started to improve and level off some.

So I don't think it'll ever die, but it certainly has it's peaks and valleys. Seems to be somewhere in the middle right now.

James, I'm not happy with being called a CHILD for expressing my opinions here, especially when quite a few of the posts after mine expressed the same sentiment. ( and I'm not talking about the music of the 80's, I was commenting more on the recent music scene). And how do you know I haven't listened to a lot of the new music?? You are assuming I never tried to get into it, a WRONG ASSUMPTION! I like Muse, and I wish there were more bands like them but I think that the real stand-outs are few and far between . You shouldn't jump to conclusions.
I still feel that a lot of today's music lacks any real content, and as someone else said, I feel I could write more compelling lyrics....but that's not saying much! I admit to tuning some of it out because, as I said, the whinning gets old and repetitive.
How many here feel the best music is behind us? The reason a lot of us Baby Boomers cling to our classic rock collections is because we feel it really is SOOO much better than anything out there today. Anyone agree?

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mickschix
James, I'm not happy with being called a CHILD for expressing my opinions here, especially when quite a few of the posts after mine expressed the same sentiment. ( and I'm not talking about the music of the 80's, I was commenting more on the recent music scene). And how do you know I haven't listened to a lot of the new music?? You are assuming I never tried to get into it, a WRONG ASSUMPTION! I like Muse, and I wish there were more bands like them but I think that the real stand-outs are few and far between . You shouldn't jump to conclusions.
I still feel that a lot of today's music lacks any real content, and as someone else said, I feel I could write more compelling lyrics....but that's not saying much! I admit to tuning some of it out because, as I said, the whinning gets old and repetitive.
How many here feel the best music is behind us? The reason a lot of us Baby Boomers cling to our classic rock collections is because we feel it really is SOOO much better than anything out there today. Anyone agree?

i'm sure many do - but i don't see how you can seperate nostalgia from the equation, either. i know that there many younger music lovers who listen to music of all generations and like music from all them. they aren't hamstrung by nostlagia and they can tell you/me with better clarity and less bias how the eras compare. and i know very few of the younger crowd that would so easily dismiss music from the last quarter-century as so many on this thread would. i think that's telling...

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mickschix
James, I'm not happy with being called a CHILD for expressing my opinions here, especially when quite a few of the posts after mine expressed the same sentiment. ( and I'm not talking about the music of the 80's, I was commenting more on the recent music scene). And how do you know I haven't listened to a lot of the new music?? You are assuming I never tried to get into it, a WRONG ASSUMPTION! I like Muse, and I wish there were more bands like them but I think that the real stand-outs are few and far between . You shouldn't jump to conclusions.
I still feel that a lot of today's music lacks any real content, and as someone else said, I feel I could write more compelling lyrics....but that's not saying much! I admit to tuning some of it out because, as I said, the whinning gets old and repetitive.
How many here feel the best music is behind us? The reason a lot of us Baby Boomers cling to our classic rock collections is because we feel it really is SOOO much better than anything out there today. Anyone agree?

I wasn't calling you a child per se at all mickschix, no offense was intended. if you re-read it i was comparing the attitude you showed which pretty much stonewalled all 'alternative and indie' music as 'depressing' and all about 'the end of the world'... which in my opnion is nonsense in 2011. A comment like that to me didn't sound like it came from one who actually listens to 'today's' good stuff. Especially when i gave 13 examples of current (within the last 2 years) stuff which is adorded by music-fans-in-the-know these days (of any age). None of those songs are depressing, and only one was 'downbeat'.

[thepowergoats.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-08 22:47 by jamesfdouglas.

I think you're right about the nostalgia element but one becomes nostalgic because, in some cases, one longs for " better days". I realize all too well that I sound just like my parents who, when the Beatles sand Stones came on the scene, would remind me of the Sinatra/Bennett era!! I will give my Dad credit though because he loved quite a bit of my music, especially the Beatles. He supported my Stones habit, as I've told many times. He used to buy my albums, concert tickets and paid for my guitars and lesssons. I wonder if I had kids if I'd have been that " hip"!!
No offense taken, James. I guess I'm feeling old these days!

It didn't. It's you. You're old and and out of touch with new music. There's always been plenty of good new music and bad new music being made and that's still the case.

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mickschix
James, I'm not happy with being called a CHILD for expressing my opinions here, especially when quite a few of the posts after mine expressed the same sentiment. ( and I'm not talking about the music of the 80's, I was commenting more on the recent music scene). And how do you know I haven't listened to a lot of the new music?? You are assuming I never tried to get into it, a WRONG ASSUMPTION! I like Muse, and I wish there were more bands like them but I think that the real stand-outs are few and far between . You shouldn't jump to conclusions.
I still feel that a lot of today's music lacks any real content, and as someone else said, I feel I could write more compelling lyrics....but that's not saying much! I admit to tuning some of it out because, as I said, the whinning gets old and repetitive.
How many here feel the best music is behind us? The reason a lot of us Baby Boomers cling to our classic rock collections is because we feel it really is SOOO much better than anything out there today. Anyone agree?

In my opinion you are dead right, mickschix. There is, for me, a fundamental problem with indie, the same as with pure pop, or manufactured music today, in that somewhere along the line popular music has lost contact with its soul, and technology has made very much everything sound very much bland and sterile, and pretty much disposable. Those indie tracks James posted aren't too detached from the manufactured end of the spectrum in my opinion, even though their moods may be fundamentally different, because they are both lack a point of reference as with regard to being able to connect to one's emotions in a fundamental way. There are no spaces within their sound for the songs to breathe, nothing to grab hold of, so to speak, as everything is just so explicitely flaunted, even on a first listen. The beauty of the tracks from the late fifties to at least the early eighties, is there is a certain subtelty, or depth to their sound, and warmth, which on succeeding listens, grows on you more and more. With modern music everything is pretty much in your face, even on a first listen, but ultimately it is just not very enduring, or satisfying in my opinion. Part of the greatness of an album like 'Exile On Main Street' is not everything is given away on a first listen, there is an element within the make up of the album, which keeps you coming back for more and more. 'Tumbling Dice' alone is so marvellous, because there is a lot going on in the mix, which takes such a long time to digest, which makes for such a fascinating listen. You can listen to that song and hear something you never noticed before every time. You go back to those indie tracks that have been posted, and that's just not the case. All their cards are laid out on the table on a first listen. They are all so one dimensional sounding, cold and clinical too, and as i said earlier, in your face. That's not to mention a basic lack of melody.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-09 08:51 by Edward Twining.

But just maybe I'm happy with my old music!! To each her own. Stop being such a grump!!

P.S. My boyfriend is a DJ so I hear more of the " new music" then most people...still not crazy about 90% of it.

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mickschix
P.S. My boyfriend is a DJ so I hear more of the " new music" then most people...still not crazy about 90% of it.

Well, i certainly don't envy you, mickschix !!

Hey Hey My My - Rock 'n roll will never die

Popular, or Pop, music never died. It has just changed over the years. Popular music today, Katy Perry or Lady GaGa, might not be my 'cup of tea' but it is popular with many people. Popular music is whatever is at the top of the charts at any one time, no matter how much we think it blows.

Scotty,
Irvine,CA

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Edward Twining

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mickschix
James, I'm not happy with being called a CHILD for expressing my opinions here, especially when quite a few of the posts after mine expressed the same sentiment. ( and I'm not talking about the music of the 80's, I was commenting more on the recent music scene). And how do you know I haven't listened to a lot of the new music?? You are assuming I never tried to get into it, a WRONG ASSUMPTION! I like Muse, and I wish there were more bands like them but I think that the real stand-outs are few and far between . You shouldn't jump to conclusions.
I still feel that a lot of today's music lacks any real content, and as someone else said, I feel I could write more compelling lyrics....but that's not saying much! I admit to tuning some of it out because, as I said, the whinning gets old and repetitive.
How many here feel the best music is behind us? The reason a lot of us Baby Boomers cling to our classic rock collections is because we feel it really is SOOO much better than anything out there today. Anyone agree?

In my opinion you are dead right, mickschix. There is, for me, a fundamental problem with indie, the same as with pure pop, or manufactured music today, in that somewhere along the line popular music has lost contact with its soul, and technology has made very much everything sound very much bland and sterile, and pretty much disposable. Those indie tracks James posted aren't too detached from the manufactured end of the spectrum in my opinion, even though their moods may be fundamentally different, because they are both lack a point of reference as with regard to being able to connect to one's emotions in a fundamental way. There are no spaces within their sound for the songs to breathe, nothing to grab hold of, so to speak, as everything is just so explicitely flaunted, even on a first listen. The beauty of the tracks from the late fifties to at least the early eighties, is there is a certain subtelty, or depth to their sound, and warmth, which on succeeding listens, grows on you more and more. With modern music everything is pretty much in your face, even on a first listen, but ultimately it is just not very enduring, or satisfying in my opinion. Part of the greatness of an album like 'Exile On Main Street' is not everything is given away on a first listen, there is an element within the make up of the album, which keeps you coming back for more and more. 'Tumbling Dice' alone is so marvellous, because there is a lot going on in the mix, which takes such a long time to digest, which makes for such a fascinating listen. You can listen to that song and hear something you never noticed before every time. You go back to those indie tracks that have been posted, and that's just not the case. All their cards are laid out on the table on a first listen. They are all so one dimensional sounding, cold and clinical too, and as i said earlier, in your face. That's not to mention a basic lack of melody.

It's understandable if new music doesn't speak to you, it's what generation gaps are all about. The music made with antiquated means from the 50's onward which you cherish was 'disposable' noise to the old people of that generation too.

What hasn't changed though is how the live experience can transcend a song into something very special. Many if not of of these artists tour regularily and perform with youthful poassion (and for a much better ticket price than Dino Vegas acts). I'm guessing though that you've not seen an upcoming current act for some time though?

Where I strongly disagree with you is your comment about the stuff having 'a basic lack of melody'. This is simply not the case at all.

[thepowergoats.com]

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jamesfdouglas
It's understandable if new music doesn't speak to you, it's what generation gaps are all about. The music made with antiquated means from the 50's onward which you cherish was 'disposable' noise to the old people of that generation too.

What hasn't changed though is how the live experience can transcend a song into something very special. Many if not of of these artists tour regularily and perform with youthful poassion (and for a much better ticket price than Dino Vegas acts). I'm guessing though that you've not seen an upcoming current act for some time though?

Where I strongly disagree with you is your comment about the stuff having 'a basic lack of melody'. This is simply not the case at all.

Music either touches me or it doesn't, James, and those indie songs just don't. The music which i cherish so much will live forever, because it is accessible and appealing. Indie, and certainly what you have posted, very likely won't appeal beyond a core audience over time, because it is lacking in the basic ingredients which one looks for in enduring musical sounds (strong melody, sensitivity within the way the songs are recorded etc.). There is simply too much clutter, which sounds computer generated, and a lack of memorable melody.

I would rather listen to these: