It has always seemed odd to me that for some folks the 1981 tour is the pinnacle of the Stones live performances. I will grant that this tour has an appealing spontaneity and rawness that has been missing on every subsequent tour, but Jagger's vocals throughout this tour suffer. (There was a great thread title a while back called "Did Jagger Ever Accidentally Sing in 1981" that was just so perfect--I don't think anybody really found a good example of him really singing in 1981.)

My point is that even though he's got swagger and attitude--which is great!--when singing he often sounds like he's in the middle of trying to pass a stubborn turd. I mean, take the song Let's Spend the Night Together from the Hampton show. "...nah I need you mowerrrrr than evvaaa..." and sung in a low register that sounds like he's an old fart in dire need of an Ex-Lax. There is just nothing cool or good about his vocal on this song, and most songs on this tour. So, did he ever accidentally sing on this tour?

Not that I think the '78 tour represents any kind of pinnacle either, but the singing, guitar playing, EVERYTHING, is so much better on the 1978 tour compared to 81. Compare, for example, the song When the Whip Comes Down from Hampton with the rendition from Detroit in 1978 (that also appears on Sucking in the 70s). The '78 version is amazing. The 1981 version is flabby. Listen to them back to back and tell me Hampton 81 represents any kind of peak as live band.

I think that the reputation of the 1978 tour suffers a little because the attitude of the whole tour was so laid back and slapdash, like it was almost an afterthought. This isn't necessarily bad, or good. The whole attitude of the tour was "it's only rock n' roll."

By 1981 it had become the spectacle of the biggest tour by the biggest band, with much longer setlists (dollar value in a tough economy, etc.), and generally more care given to making a more consistent overall presentation at each venue (although nothing like the homogenized tours that would come later...). But in 1981 they started to show their age in a big way, and the moss started to gather a bit, whereas in 78 they were still damn scrappy, albeit sloppy at times and, well, perhaps a little too devil-may-care, which might lower the opinion of the tour and some shows in people's minds. I'll also concede that for people who attended shows in both 81 and 78, that the 81 shows were more fun to witness, and were more satisfying in their totality. But if you listen to just the music, and compare song for song, I think the versions from 78 are clearly better.

Here's a challenge: For the songs that were performed both on the 78 tour and the 81 tour, find anything played in 81 that tops the best version from 78.

Couldn't you have picked a better analogy ?

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Edith Grove
Couldn't you have picked a better analogy ?

No. It's the perfect analogy. Going To A Go Go is a REALLY good example of him trying to squeeze out a turd (on the run).

The 80's were weird anyway. But, yeah, the 78 tour was pure rock n roll, start to finish. No Midnight Ramblers or Can't Always Get What You Wants, just rhythm rock n roll. But then, it was the punk period after all, God bless their pointed little heads.

AH ha ha ha ha ha! That's a great analogy actually. Still Life is a fantastic sonic library of this problem - even on Time On My Side and Imagination - songs he almost sings - and the best songs on the album.

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rocker1


Here's a challenge: For the songs that were performed both on the 78 tour and the 81 tour, find anything played in 81 that tops the best version from 78.

That's not exactly something we can accurately gauge is it? I mean it's totally subjective. Just a matter of opinion. I'm sure some people will prefer the '78 performances, some the '81 performances. You could take a poll, get percentages, but that's it. Nothing definitive.

I hear what your saying, BUT, I submit that the "Just My Imaginations" from 81 are sublime and superior to 78.
I also prefer JJF from 81.

I thought the thread was literally about mick's digestion. In some '70s interview I think in Carr's or Dalton's book, he stresses the need for clean bowels. As I recall, it's a concern he got from Bianca.

Well thank heavens for this thread. Like a total idiot I was enjoying the 81 tour. What a fool I've been. Thank you for opening my eyes. The 81 tour is crap and I'll be throwing away all my boots from it now. I can't believe I've been so stupid.

Now, since you are so smart, please tell me who's better: Wood or Taylor. That way I'll know what to listen to and enjoy in the future.

why are you taking it personally, lm2? The original post is about mick's vocals, not you.

plus, it happened 30 years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-18 06:31 by cc.

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I thought the thread was literally about mick's digestion. In some '70s interview I think in Carr's or Dalton's book, he stresses the need for clean bowels. As I recall, it's a concern he got from Bianca.

Page 144 of the Dalton book:

Q: They said constipation was the source of all mental illness, all social ills and...lousy sex.

Bianca: It's one of the main things with women who don't have beautiful skin.

Q: How many times a day do you shit, Bianca?

Bianca: Well, I only eat once...

But getting back to Mick's singing in 1981, I'm not sure I agree that Just My Imagination tops some of the 78 versions (as I recall there are excellent versions of this from 78 but I can't identify specifics right now), but I will admit that song was well done in 81. JJF has been a mess since, well, '69 or '70, so maybe 81 would top 78. Ditto with Satisfaction, which wasn't played often in 78 but none of those strike me as great, whereas some of the 81 versions have a shaky but pleasing grandiosity (?) as the encore. Although Mick still sounds sorta like he's taking a dump while singing it.

I saw the 2 Anaheim shows in '78 and Seattle and San Francisco in '81. I thought the '81 perfomances were better.

'78 was good and definitely raw but it was also very sloppy. I think they were really boozing it up and who knows what else. They left the crowd stand there in the hot Anaheim sun for 3 hours between them and the previous band because they couldn't get out of bed!

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Well thank heavens for this thread. Like a total idiot I was enjoying the 81 tour. What a fool I've been. Thank you for opening my eyes. The 81 tour is crap and I'll be throwing away all my boots from it now. I can't believe I've been so stupid.

I love the '81 Tour; one of my favorites for a variety of reasons. Just not for Mick's singing.

As for Taylor or Wood, I'll go with Blondie.

The low point in Mick's singing was during the 1975 and 1976 tours. He barely enunciated the words. I don't know what was going on there and it's too bad because he was still young enough to have a powerful (but controlled) singing voice at that time.

"I wa' brn ina crssfir' hurakan'" is the way he sang, it was awful.

So although he "barked" a lot on the 78 and 81 tours (imo) it was still a lot better than the garbled mess in 75 and 76.

I saw the '78 show at JFK in Philly and opening nights at MSG and Landover '81. It wasn't even close: my '81 shows were way better overall.

Agree that the "growling" Mick of '75-'76 was his worst vocal phase. I personally think it had something to do with Billy Preston and Mick's wanting to sound funky. '81 wasn't great, but it was ok. I thought it was a wildly uneven tour. The band was too coked up. There were brilliant nights, and pretty bad ones too.

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Edith Grove
Couldn't you have picked a better analogy ?

Couldn't YOU have pi... actually no, that one was perfect. Thanks!

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71Tele
Agree that the "growling" Mick of '75-'76 was his worst vocal phase.

Me too. I find it tough listening to a whole live audio from that era.

I can't see the problem. Mick hadn't been SINGING live since 1967. When he finally started singing again in 1981, people complain

Obviously, Mick had singing training before the 81 tour, because his singing style now was different. The growling and the shouting-style was gone, and now he used his stomach to open the pipes.

I liked it anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-18 12:14 by DandelionPowderman.

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rocker1

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I thought the thread was literally about mick's digestion. In some '70s interview I think in Carr's or Dalton's book, he stresses the need for clean bowels. As I recall, it's a concern he got from Bianca.

Page 144 of the Dalton book:

Q: They said constipation was the source of all mental illness, all social ills and...lousy sex.

Bianca: It's one of the main things with women who don't have beautiful skin.

Q: How many times a day do you shit, Bianca?

Bianca: Well, I only eat once...

But getting back to Mick's singing in 1981, I'm not sure I agree that Just My Imagination tops some of the 78 versions (as I recall there are excellent versions of this from 78 but I can't identify specifics right now), but I will admit that song was well done in 81. JJF has been a mess since, well, '69 or '70, so maybe 81 would top 78. Ditto with Satisfaction, which wasn't played often in 78 but none of those strike me as great, whereas some of the 81 versions have a shaky but pleasing grandiosity (?) as the encore. Although Mick still sounds sorta like he's taking a dump while singing it.

I'm not up to your challenge, but I think you're basically right about the 81, and 78, tour. 81 wasn't the best. Mick's singing was as you said, the guitars were thin and trebly, the artwork for the stage was silly, etc. And performance wise, they were SLOPPY. You can criticize both all you want, but Still Life and the LSTNT movie are pretty solid performance-wise. They were official product, and as such, mistakes were doctored, and bad performances left out. Listen to any of the soundboards and audience recordings, or watch Hampton or any of the other bootleg videos, it's a different story. 81 was pretty rough.

But somehow it still worked liked it always had before, even if it wasn't in quite the same way. What stands out about that tour to me, is it seems to be the last time the Stones were still able to really be THE STONES. Still able to scare parents, and make the authorities nervous. Still young enough to be relevant doing what they were doing. Still something that really mattered.

They still appealed to the kids on a mass level. I didn't go see them, I was in 7th grade, with no money, and no way to go. But the next day at school after their show in Orlando, an hour away, EVERYONE had that shirt, the dragon with the Stones tongue, towering over a stadium. And this was JR. HIGH, not high school. Many of the shirts may have come from from their older siblings, but many also went to the show. We all loved Start Me Up, and it was all over the radio. I don't think they have played to kids, or even registered on their radar, since. Certainly not to that degree.

Even though I was too young to go, 81 was the last Stones tour I was interested in. By the time the Stones played again in 89, I was 20, had the money, but had no desire to see them. I was a bigger fan of their music than I had been 8 years earlier, but the rock and roll-centric world, and the Stones, had changed. I didn't like the new album very much, and the Stones just didn't seem to be the Stones anymore.

81 was the last Stones tour that mattered, because it was the last one they did while rock and roll still mattered, and dominated, in the way it had since it took over everything the mid-50's.

1981-1982 was also the last time imo that Keith concentrated more on his playing than he did on his posing...

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Sleepy City
1981-1982 was also the last time imo that Keith concentrated more on his playing than he did on his posing...

1990, you mean?

He never could top his playing on the SW/UJ-tour, imo.

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DandelionPowderman

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Sleepy City
1981-1982 was also the last time imo that Keith concentrated more on his playing than he did on his posing...

1990, you mean?

He never could top his playing on the SW/UJ-tour, imo.

His playing was superb, but even then I thought some of his posing was starting to get a bit OTT.

Agree. It was the first "kick-tour" for sure But his playing was better than ever.

perfect rocker1 - excellent post...I can't answer your question but think u have it correct..

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bustedtrousers

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rocker1

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I thought the thread was literally about mick's digestion. In some '70s interview I think in Carr's or Dalton's book, he stresses the need for clean bowels. As I recall, it's a concern he got from Bianca.

Page 144 of the Dalton book:

Q: They said constipation was the source of all mental illness, all social ills and...lousy sex.

Bianca: It's one of the main things with women who don't have beautiful skin.

Q: How many times a day do you shit, Bianca?

Bianca: Well, I only eat once...

But getting back to Mick's singing in 1981, I'm not sure I agree that Just My Imagination tops some of the 78 versions (as I recall there are excellent versions of this from 78 but I can't identify specifics right now), but I will admit that song was well done in 81. JJF has been a mess since, well, '69 or '70, so maybe 81 would top 78. Ditto with Satisfaction, which wasn't played often in 78 but none of those strike me as great, whereas some of the 81 versions have a shaky but pleasing grandiosity (?) as the encore. Although Mick still sounds sorta like he's taking a dump while singing it.

I'm not up to your challenge, but I think you're basically right about the 81, and 78, tour. 81 wasn't the best. Mick's singing was as you said, the guitars were thin and trebly, the artwork for the stage was silly, etc. And performance wise, they were SLOPPY. You can criticize both all you want, but Still Life and the LSTNT movie are pretty solid performance-wise. They were official product, and as such, mistakes were doctored, and bad performances left out. Listen to any of the soundboards and audience recordings, or watch Hampton or any of the other bootleg videos, it's a different story. 81 was pretty rough.

But somehow it still worked liked it always had before, even if it wasn't in quite the same way. What stands out about that tour to me, is it seems to be the last time the Stones were still able to really be THE STONES. Still able to scare parents, and make the authorities nervous. Still young enough to be relevant doing what they were doing. Still something that really mattered.

They still appealed to the kids on a mass level. I didn't go see them, I was in 7th grade, with no money, and no way to go. But the next day at school after their show in Orlando, an hour away, EVERYONE had that shirt, the dragon with the Stones tongue, towering over a stadium. And this was JR. HIGH, not high school. Many of the shirts may have come from from their older siblings, but many also went to the show. We all loved Start Me Up, and it was all over the radio. I don't think they have played to kids, or even registered on their radar, since. Certainly not to that degree.

Even though I was too young to go, 81 was the last Stones tour I was interested in. By the time the Stones played again in 89, I was 20, had the money, but had no desire to see them. I was a bigger fan of their music than I had been 8 years earlier, but the rock and roll-centric world, and the Stones, had changed. I didn't like the new album very much, and the Stones just didn't seem to be the Stones anymore.

81 was the last Stones tour that mattered, because it was the last one they did while rock and roll still mattered, and dominated, in the way it had since it took over everything the mid-50's.

A very smart post; thanks. I'm just a shade younger than you are and what you've written seems an excellent take on the changed pop landscape of 1989. There's an interesting cultural and audience shift in '94 as well, but that's for another time....

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MileHigh
The low point in Mick's singing was during the 1975 and 1976 tours. He barely enunciated the words.

So although he "barked" a lot on the 78 and 81 tours (imo) it was still a lot better than the garbled mess in 75 and 76.

Ah, see, the difference between 75/76 and 81/82 was the speed of things. As overall hurried as they were in 81/82 they were at times way faster in 75/76. Listen to JJF from Love You Live - it's an abomination. Star Star is also insanely fast. Tumbling Dice starts out at a glacial pace and then gets into some kind of Chunky Soup white boy funk speed. And Mick's "singing" is atrocious on this one especially, which is the actual live vocal. Brown Sugar is another good one - it's just AHHHHH AHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHH and sounds like he's trying to gargle half the time.

81/82 he was singing fast, yes, like Shattered, which is just horrible; LSTNT, Let Me Go and of course Satisfaction. But he was grunt fast, as opposed to that very affected howling voice he used for 75/76 - that really obvious overdubbed vocal on Star Star is a really good example - he's "singing" a bit brighter than the live howwwwwwwwl that you can hear bleeding through but he still managed to capture the howling vibe.

Regardless, both tours he sang like he was taking enormous dumps all over the place. At the very least it's entertaining.

This is a shit&y thread.

Oh man,i don´t care that much of Micks voice in 75-1982,except for 1976,his absolute worst.

I actually really like his style 75,78,81 and 82,to me that band back then,how mick did sing or didn´t sing,defines best rock music ever made.It was raw,fast,groovy,dirty,and thats whats rock n roll is all about.It was also very entertaining.

from this so called "vegas era" Bridges tour was and stays their best since 1982.

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bustedtrousers
I'm not up to your challenge, but I think you're basically right about the 81, and 78, tour. 81 wasn't the best. Mick's singing was as you said, the guitars were thin and trebly, the artwork for the stage was silly, etc. And performance wise, they were SLOPPY. You can criticize both all you want, but Still Life and the LSTNT movie are pretty solid performance-wise. They were official product, and as such, mistakes were doctored, and bad performances left out. Listen to any of the soundboards and audience recordings, or watch Hampton or any of the other bootleg videos, it's a different story. 81 was pretty rough.

But somehow it still worked liked it always had before, even if it wasn't in quite the same way. What stands out about that tour to me, is it seems to be the last time the Stones were still able to really be THE STONES. Still able to scare parents, and make the authorities nervous. Still young enough to be relevant doing what they were doing. Still something that really mattered.

They still appealed to the kids on a mass level. I didn't go see them, I was in 7th grade, with no money, and no way to go. But the next day at school after their show in Orlando, an hour away, EVERYONE had that shirt, the dragon with the Stones tongue, towering over a stadium. And this was JR. HIGH, not high school. Many of the shirts may have come from from their older siblings, but many also went to the show. We all loved Start Me Up, and it was all over the radio. I don't think they have played to kids, or even registered on their radar, since. Certainly not to that degree.

Even though I was too young to go, 81 was the last Stones tour I was interested in. By the time the Stones played again in 89, I was 20, had the money, but had no desire to see them. I was a bigger fan of their music than I had been 8 years earlier, but the rock and roll-centric world, and the Stones, had changed. I didn't like the new album very much, and the Stones just didn't seem to be the Stones anymore.

81 was the last Stones tour that mattered, because it was the last one they did while rock and roll still mattered, and dominated, in the way it had since it took over everything the mid-50's.

Excellent post, bustedtrousers. Pretty much the same impressions I had during the 80's (we are about the same age). The whole "rock culture" fundamentally changed during those years. I was too young too see them in 1982 (the nearest place they performed was Gothenburg, Sweden, over one sea from Finland) but I still remember the atmosphere, and the Stones were "cool" by quite large amount of young people. They represented something still vital and dangerous and relevant. They just had it still then. In 1990 when The Stones, once again, hit the Gothenburg, the feeling was different. A certain "aura" was gone. They couldn't anymore excite younger crowds and I guess their crowds were then more or less 8 yaers older than in 1982, and the question was that of nostalgy. Surely, there was some nostalgy in 1982 but "Start Me Up" was about the coolest thing one could hear in radio and TATTOO YOU was an awesome album - the best new album of the whole year actually (we had a thread of that some time ago). STEEL WHEELS was a sort of "okay come back album" for old fans but surely a single like "Mixed Emotions" didn't excite any new audiences. It was not just the Stones but the whole rock scene changing so strongly during the 80's and somehow losing its relevance over-all.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-18 19:49 by Doxa.