Dylan & Taylor

I have read many articles about Dylan and his real live tour with Taylor in 1984 and the so called rock journalists would write that Taylor's long winded solos were disorganized and did not fit in with Dylan's live shows. That's so far from the truth all you have to do is take the time and listen to those recordings
objectively with some music background. If you compare those performances now to lets say Dylan's Live 1966 bootleg series from Albert Hall with the Hawks backing him and many say those shows were some of the best live rock and roll shows ever. I think Dylan doing one set acoustic and then the 2nd set
electric had more to do with it then the actual playing. Yes the band sounded great but listen to Robbie Robertson's electric solos his tin tone comes no where
close to how Taylor backed up Dylan and enriched his material live.

Listen to Taylor with Dylan and then listen to those bootleg recordings with Dylan's electric backup bands at Albert Hall or the Newport Festival and those
performances really don't blow away anything Taylor did with Dylan. In fact Dylan's vocals are the only thing that is better with Dylan's collaborations with
Taylor. Dylan and Taylor from Rome 6/19/84 is another great fantastic show.
masters of war - MT plays a eerie, wonderful mysterious, feel Every Grain of Sand - melodic wonderment. Growing up I always had the melodies of Blowing in
the wind, Times they are changing, I shall be released, in my head, Well Taylor plays these wonderful notes and melody on these great songs. His precise notes are wonderful and I always wondered how an electric solo would sound on these great songs. Just listening to Taylor play those notes and melody on those songs is worth all the time spent with Taylor's music. To bad Dylan did not invite Taylor to his 30th anniversary special at MSG he would of blown away all
those guitar players on stage that night doing Dylan tunes. I have to say Woody does an unbelievable job on Dylan's Seven days. Listen to the Hamburg 5/31/84 Show it's fantastic and is as good as The Albert Hall show from 1966.
Listen to what Taylor does on Its all Over now Baby Blue, his lyrical melodic beautiful lines make the song something special. Listen to Ballad of a thin man and like a rolling stone from Albert Hall, then listen to ballad of a thin man
and Like a Rolling Stone from Hamburg with Taylor. The song sequence from Its all Over Now Baby blue, Masters of War, Ballad of a Thin Man, When You Gonna
Wake up, Every Grain of Sand and Like a Rolling Stone is heaven. The band is cooking.

I was at two of those '84 shows (Newcastle and Slane) - my first of many Dylan shows, and they were both excellent. Taylor played great too.

But if you're comparing 1966 to 1984 and defining how great each tour was against the other solely on the basis of Mick Taylor then with the greatest respect I think you're entirely missing the point



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-12 13:30 by Gazza.

I must admit that I saw Dylan/Santana here in Gothenburg on that tour, and in my memory, it´s the most boring concert I have ever seen.
Santana opened, and it was like 5 minutes guitar solo, 5 minutes bongodrums-solo, 5 minutes guitarsolo, 5 minutes....etc
Then Dylan came on, did some songs with the band, and then a long section of only himself on guitar and harmonica. In front of some 50000 people....It was so boring, might have worked in a more intimate surrounding, but not at an outdoors footballsstadium..... I just listened to MT and read the newspaper at the same time, and people around me fell asleep....

Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings

mickijaggeroo Wrote:
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> Then Dylan came on, did some songs with the band,
> and then a long section of only himself on guitar
> and harmonica.

3 songs in a row. Hardly a "long section"!

Dylans vocals are brilliant and strong and how he delivers those songs is better
in 1966 then 1984 to me, the guitar playing and the band sure sound great on those boots.I was not there all i have is those boots which sound fantastic and to me 1984 are more enjoyable to listen to then 1966.Taylor provides the melody again thats what I focus on with all dylans songs.

fair enough.

Regarding the 1992 "tribute" show, I didnt get the impression Dylan had much to do with assembling the guest musicians.

The event was billed as a "Columbia Records" 30th Anniversary bash and I think the record label had a lot more to do with it than Bob did. Whilst a lot of the guest musicians had obvious links to Dylan (Johnny Cash, The Band, Tom Petty, Roger McGuinn, The Clancy Brothers etc), there were also several "contemporary" artists who had zero historical connection to Bob and who I only assume were there because they were presumably on the same record label and were used to perform one of Dylan's songs (ie Sophie B Hawkins, Sinead O'Connor etc)

Good point you are most likely correct with the record label.

Taylor did not work with Dylan again after 1984 so its my pipe dream.I think
he played on one track on empire burlsque and that was taylor's last work with
dylan.Over the years dylan was smart to get charlie sexton and larry campbell
to play on the never ending tour.

Somehow related to this topic, I read awhile ago a Mick Taylor interview where he said that Dylan didn't advice or guide him any way how to play, and that he (Mick) was quite confused with that 'freedom' first.

Yes, the results were great.

- Doxa

Yes I meet a guy at the Birchmere Club here in DC and he meet charlie sexton and
larry campbell on the never ending tour.They said that Dylan would just show up
before the gig and the band did not know the arrangements or keys and the band
was expected to figure it all out when they went on stage.dylan uses alot of open
tunings.Listen to Blood on The Tracks dylan gets the mood of the record with the
use of open tunings

Only 3 songs in a row? Felt like days....

Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings

OpenG,

Taylor was musical director on that '84 tour.

I've only one boot (Austrian gig) and though Taylor is good I actually much enjoy hearing bob's electric rhythm. Great guitarist. (Wish he'd go back to guitar again now).

And OpenG..........I did a post for you about a slightly obscure Mayall album featuring Saint MickT. Page down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-12 15:56 by Deidre.

"(Wish he'd go back to guitar again now)."

(Well, me too, but I've heard that he has some physical constraints preventing to do that, problems with his back or something..)

- Doxa

Dylan was "lost" in the mid 80's (he says so himself in his book) - and he leaned heavily on others to carry the day...84 with the Mac/Taylor band and then later with TP and the Dead. I enjoy listening to the blistering work of MT on that tour, but Dylan is pretty much MIA as far as I'm concerned. I enjoy Bob from '88-to-the-present (with a few notable exceptions from 90-93) much more than this largely uninspired tour.

anyone who says dylan,s vocals are brilliant.please take a break

OpenG Wrote:
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> Dylan & Taylor
>
> I have read many articles about Dylan and his real
> live tour with Taylor in 1984 and the so called
> rock journalists would write that Taylor's long
> winded solos were disorganized and did not fit in
> with Dylan's live shows.

Deidre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OpenG,
>
> Taylor was musical director on that '84 tour.
>


Having "seen" some of the shows, I think some of the solos were odd because Dylan wasn't clear as to how much soloing Taylor could do. You can hear Taylor in the middle of a phrase, expecting another 12 bars, when Dylan runs back to the microphone to cut Taylor off. Other times, you hear Taylor play a neat, complete thought in 24 bars, then looks over to Dylan to see Dylan is in outer space, so Taylor does another 12 bars. Than another 12 bars. Sometimes this is seamless, but sometimes it is not. I think Bob gave him a few head fakes too.

It's true that Taylor was the "musical director" and put together much of the band, but on stage Dylan is the director.

Yes I've heard the stories about Dylan's Chuck-Berry approach of just showing up on stage with the Taylor line-up and others, starting to play songs and having the others follow. However, there were rehearsals in this case. Maybe there should have been more rehearsals, but this was not quite the surprise attack it is sometimes made out to be for this tour. Obviously though, the band did get better with time. Also, I don't know if things were worse for Campbell and others.

OpenG, why do you think Dylan never worked with Taylor again onstage or in the studio? The Empire Burlesque song was a leftover from Infidels. There was a recording of a conversation with Wood and Richards in which Dylan perhaps suggested that Taylor was inconsistent ("some nights he was just incredible . . . other nights, jeez") and blew off Dylan sometimes when they were supposed to meet. It's tough to piece together the ambiguities in the conversation and maybe Dylan is just trying to make conversation with Richards and Wood so he can hang around them longer . . .

Smokey,
Then did Taylor work with Dylan after 1984

On one of those boots towards the end of the show taylor gets on the mike and
speaks to the crowd and says now lets have a hand for Bob Dylan.

When I first heard that I was shocked to hear him on the boot and to me that
shows Taylor was confident and in control for that particular show and was not
afraid to interact with the band and dylan.

harlem shuffle Wrote:
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> anyone who says dylan,s vocals are
> brilliant.please take a break

Dylan's the greatest rockn'roll singer of them all in my book. Bill Graham's too. If you don't think he's a great rock'n'roll singer, you just don't "get it."

harlem shuffle,

please listen to Idiot Wind and let your mind and soul just dive into dylan's
vocals and lyrics.

I saw the Daylan 84 show at wembley (i think it was wembley) it included a guest appearence by Eric Clapton during which the band Mac and tayler etc didn't seem to know what was going on. It was a dull concert and i have seen n'sick.

you must have really been out of your head that day if you cant even recall where the show was...!

and yeah, Clapton did join them onstage for "Senor". The fact that it wasnt rehearsed may have something to do with the end product. It's called improvisation. Something the Stones would NEVER do.

Gazza, I witnessed the Stones 'improvise' their way out of several cock-ups on their recent tour!

LOL. Are you sure they got out of them?

What I meant was that the Stones very rarely if ever do anything onstage that isnt planned, such as play a song they've barely rehearsed. I get the impression they're too conscious of it going "tits up"

Not knocking their musicianship because I think they're still a fantastic live act, but I'd like to see them take more chances and play songs 'off the cuff' once in a while.

what i mean is that dylan is not a brilliant singer.brilliant songwriter yes,maybee the best as ever be.but the vocal?same class as keith nowadays

I was lucky enough to see Dylan at Newcastle and Wembley on this tour and both shows were mind blowing. It's funny how those people who knock the shows on this board can't seem to remember anything about them! Surely you guys aren't THAT old are you??!! Or were you babes in arms perhaps???

Indeed, Clapton did join them on stage, but what about Chrissie Hynde, Carlos Santana and Van Morrison singing "It's all over now baby Blue" with the mike not working for the first verse! The concerts were brilliant.

I asked Mick Taylor, personally, about the tour and he told me that Dylan phoned him up out of the blue and suggested that he put together a fairly hard rocking band together for a European tour in stadiums. They then had just two weeks to rehearse before going on the road. Taylor was to be, more or less, musical director.

The concerts were stunning.

Taylor played with Dylan again, notably on Empire Burlesque tracks, but according to his people, there appeared at this stage to be some rivalry with Mark Knopfler who felt that he'd had his nose put out somewhat.

I'll say no more...

LOGIE Wrote:
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> I was lucky enough to see Dylan at Newcastle and
> Wembley on this tour and both shows were mind
> blowing. It's funny how those people who knock the
> shows on this board can't seem to remember
> anything about them! Surely you guys aren't THAT
> old are you??!! Or were you babes in arms
> perhaps???

OK, now we're getting something to work with!

There are records of this show. In part, the official release (mostly from London and Newcastle I believe) , but there are, I believe, two video records of London floating about. Memories can be refreshed.
>
> Indeed, Clapton did join them on stage, but what
> about Chrissie Hynde, Carlos Santana and Van
> Morrison singing "It's all over now baby Blue"
> with the mike not working for the first verse! The
> concerts were brilliant.
>
Hynde "looks" very out of place to me, but I got the sense that Taylor was holding things together.

> I asked Mick Taylor, personally, about the tour
> and he told me that Dylan phoned him up out of the
> blue and suggested that he put together a fairly
> hard rocking band together for a European tour in
> stadiums.

Story I heard is that Dylan met or saw him at one of the California Bluesbreakers shows and asked him. Any combination of things is possible. I'm still waiting for the definitive view on whether Taylor gave or did not give Mayall his telephone number in 1966--I think I've heard both stories . . .

> They then had just two weeks to rehearse
> before going on the road. Taylor was to be, more
> or less, musical director.
>
> The concerts were stunning.
>
Agreed though Barcelona and Paleuer (sbd?) usually get the nod for best of the tour and I usually wince when I hear the Santana encore.


> Taylor played with Dylan again, notably on Empire
> Burlesque tracks, but according to his people,
> there appeared at this stage to be some rivalry
> with Mark Knopfler who felt that he'd had his nose
> put out somewhat.

Knopf reportedly wanted another lead guitarist for the sessions.

Also, I thought Knopf was kicked out in the middle of Infidels and Dylan sacked many of the Knopf-produced songs, which since have appeared on a bootleg series release.

>
> I'll say no more...
>

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> What I meant was that the Stones very rarely if
> ever do anything onstage that isnt planned, such
> as play a song they've barely rehearsed. I get the
> impression they're too conscious of it going "tits
> up"
>
> Not knocking their musicianship because I think
> they're still a fantastic live act, but I'd like
> to see them take more chances and play songs 'off
> the cuff' once in a while.


I thought Jagger said the lighting restricts their ability to improvise or veer from the standard arrangements.

OpenG Wrote:
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> On one of those boots towards the end of the show
> taylor gets on the mike and
> speaks to the crowd and says now lets have a hand
> for Bob Dylan.
>
> When I first heard that I was shocked to hear him
> on the boot and to me that
> shows Taylor was confident and in control for that
> particular show and was not
> afraid to interact with the band and dylan.

Guys, there's a bible; you only need check it:

850600A June: BOB DYLAN.
LP 'Empire Burlesque' (CBS 86313). Producer: Bob Dylan. Sound engineer:
Josh Abbey. Recorded in New York City, The Hit Factory in April/May 1983
(song later reworked by Dylan without MT). Incl.
- Tight Connection To My Heart (Bob Dylan)
Line-up: MT (gtr)/Bob Dylan (voc, keyb)/Ted Perlman (gtr)/Richard Scher
(synth)/Robbie Shakespeare (bass)/Sly Dunbar (dr)/Peggi Blu,
Carol Dennis and Queen Esther Marrow (bvoc)
Note: Reworked version of Someone’s Got A Hold Of My Heart. For more info,
see 830411A.

As Nico indicates (www.nzentgraf.de), the song was an outtake from the '83 Infidels session.

Same story with this one:

880530A 30th May: BOB DYLAN.
LP ‘Down In The Groove’ (CBS 460267 1). Producers: Bob Dylan (and Mark
Knopfler). Sound engineer: Stephen Shelton. Incl.
- Death Is Not The End (Bob Dylan)
Line-up: MT (gtr)/Bob Dylan (gtr, voc, harm)/Clydie King (bvoc)/Alan Clarke (keyb)/ Robbie Shakespeare (bass)/Sly Dunbar (dr)/Full Force (bvoc)
Note: It’s not sure if MT plays on this take (recorded in Spring 1983, see
830411A), maybe it’s Mark Knopfler as the sleeve notes claim, but the
album was advertised to include Mick Taylor.

Some time after 1984, Taylor did open a show for Dylan, but my recollection is that they did not play together at that show. I'd be pleased to hear to the contrary.



Also, I don't think anyone suggests that Taylor was scared to interact, but, if you "see" the stage, then you see who is telling whom when to end a song, end a solo, start a song, etc. Taylor put together the band and probably did some amount of arrangements, but onstage Dylan's the director. That doesn't not mean that the actors are marionettes. . .

Smokey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> There are records of this show. In part, the
> official release (mostly from London and Newcastle
> I believe) , but there are, I believe, two video
> records of London floating about. Memories can be
> refreshed.

the Real Live album includes 6 songs from Wembley, 2 from newcastle and 2 from Slane Castle

Theres a one hour pro shot from wembley filmed by MTV. Part of it consists of a backstage interview with Dylan for MTV in the US. Martha Quinn's interviewing him, Bob's quite obviously flirting with her...then theres about 40 mins of concert footage filmed from the side of the stage, mostly from the encores I think. Its not bad.

Theres also a half decent audience film of most of the Newcastle gig. (I've also got a 45 min film of Slane but its not that good - too many arses perched on shoulders in the way and very unsteady!). Theres some decent TV footage, best of which is the 5 song broadcast from Barcelona on Spanish TV


> >
> > Indeed, Clapton did join them on stage, but
> what
> > about Chrissie Hynde, Carlos Santana and Van
> > Morrison singing "It's all over now baby
> Blue"
> > with the mike not working for the first
> verse! The
> > concerts were brilliant.

they sure were.


> Agreed though Barcelona and Paleuer (sbd?) usually
> get the nod for best of the tour and I usually
> wince when I hear the Santana encore.

Barcelona is one of THE best Dylan shows of the 80's. Wonderful. There is indeed a soundboard from one of the Palaeur (Rome) shows I believe, plus partial ones of Slane, Paris and a compilation of Real Live outtakes
>
>
> > Taylor played with Dylan again, notably on
> Empire
> > Burlesque tracks, but according to his
> people,
> > there appeared at this stage to be some
> rivalry
> > with Mark Knopfler who felt that he'd had his
> nose
> > put out somewhat.

as explained above, the EB songs are leftovers from Infidels.

>
> Knopf reportedly wanted another lead guitarist for
> the sessions.
>
> Also, I thought Knopf was kicked out in the middle
> of Infidels and Dylan sacked many of the
> Knopf-produced songs, which since have appeared on
> a bootleg series release.


not quite. Knopfler had touring commitments that summer with Dire Straits and left to rehearse and go on the road. Dylan basically finished assembling the album himself, and Knopfler was amazed that when he heard the finished version that he'd left off some of the best songs (most notably 'Blind Willie mcTell') and replaced them with inferior cuts

What was the name of the song Dylan put out in the summer of 1984 that featured Ronnie Wood and Mick Taylor playing on it. I can't remember the title. It was not a bad song either.

Milo, NYC
Well it's a shame, but it's funny