In the mid eighties the late Micky Waller,drummer of Jeff Beck Group
and on Rod Stewarts early albums,told a friend of me that it was his drums
we can hear on Gimme Shelter and the reason was that Charlie was late
to studio and that he was there. He also said that Charlie never
re recorded them and not mind at all as they were good friends.
On the liner notes of the album we can read Charlie Watts on drums and
Jimmy Miller percussion. If we compare the drumming on the studio version
with live versions from´69 we can clearly here that the original
is a lot heavier. Have anyone heard of this before?
Tommy

hmmm...nobody ever said anything about that before..possibly Waller played on an earlier take..? sounds like Charlie on the record.

Charlie's drums as in his actual drum set or Charlie playing the drums? I call bullshit.

The live version wasn't as heavy? If you listen you'll notice that the drumming on Jumpin' Jack Flash is not like the studio version, nor is Street Fighting Man or Sympathy or Live With Me and Under My Thumb on and on and on.

That's an extremely weak point, that one.

No Bill and Charlie on Bass and Drums?

Are we sure Mick is singing on GS?





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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-02 14:56 by His Majesty.

And the Stones own credits on Let It Bleed list Bill as bass on Gimmie Shelter.

I find it impossible to even take something like that, "it was his drums
we can hear on Gimme Shelter and the reason was that Charlie was late
to studio and that he was there. He also said that Charlie never
re recorded them", seriously.

Just listening to the drums it's obvious it's Charlie. How someone could say such a thing is beyond me.

I'll hear a song and sometimes I'll know exactly who is playing. My wife will listen and she'll just hear an instrument. Same thing here. Some people hear Charlie and instinctively know that it is Charlie. Other people just hear drums on a song they love and assume it's Charlie but could easily believe it's someone else. To this day there are people who think Jimmy Page plays on The Kinks' "You Really Got Me" single. It's really no different.

The drumming on Gimme Shelter is one of Charlie Watts's finest moments!

Of course it's been Charlie. Wallers drumming was different.

Utter rubbish. The ghost notes beatween beats are a clear Charlie trade mark.

Another musician who just happened to be in the studio (how convemient), wouldn't take over another musicians role because he was late, (I presume Charlie missed the bus did he?).
He wouldn't know the song well enough to play it confidently and it wouldn't sound like the Rolling Stones.
The only exception to this is, "Its only Rock and Roll" (Kenney Jones on drums) and the few tracks on Exile where Jimmy Miller played and YCAGWYW on Let it Bleed.
But those instances are well documented and this isn't.

Quote
turd
Utter rubbish. The ghost notes beatween beats are a clear Charlie trade mark.

Another musician who just happened to be in the studio (how convemient), wouldn't take over another musicians role because he was late, (I presume Charlie missed the bus did he?).
He wouldn't know the song well enough to play it confidently and it wouldn't sound like the Rolling Stones.
The only exception to this is, "Its only Rock and Roll" (Kenney Jones on drums) and the few tracks on Exile where Jimmy Miller played and YCAGWYW on Let it Bleed.
But those instances are well documented and this isn't.

to be fair, having whoever was around play is something that happened pretty often with the bass and somewhat with the drums, as you mention. And not knowing the song isn't an issue, since the song had just been written, so charlie didn't know it either.

that said, it sounds like charlie to me.

Just saw this old thread while googling Mick Waller...check out this interview from the Harvard Crimson in 1968 ( while the Beck group played a few Boston Tea Party dates ).

[www.thecrimson.com]

Mick Waller says he played bongos on the studio version of JJF. News to me.

Quote
normanplace
Just saw this old thread while googling Mick Waller...check out this interview from the Harvard Crimson in 1968 ( while the Beck group played a few Boston Tea Party dates ).

[www.thecrimson.com]

Mick Waller says he played bongos on the studio version of JJF. News to me.

Nice, but there's no bongos on it.

So if he did, they didn't use it.

this sounds totally plausible. same reason as them just using the buddy holly vocal track instead of mick's, on not fade away.

I have read/heard that the bass drum was overdubbed because Charlie was playing that travelling/practice drum kit and it's bass sound needed enhancing. I thought I read that Dave Mason did the overdubbing.

Only Watts can play like what we hear on the record.
It's so stiff and totally Him.

Quote
mrpaulincanada
I have read/heard that the bass drum was overdubbed because Charlie was playing that travelling/practice drum kit and it's bass sound needed enhancing. I thought I read that Dave Mason did the overdubbing.

That was Pay Your Dues/Street Fighting Man.

yep.....sorry Street Fighting Man...

I'm a drummer myself and Mickey Waller has always been a favorite of mine. Someone (maybe Rod Stewart, not sure) once described his style as the sound of a drum kit falling down a flight of stairs. Perfect description! But...I'm highly suspicious of this claim. The drumming doesn't sound anything like Waller's wonderfully messy style. And Chawlie late for a session? Rubbish!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-03-27 07:11 by TheBadRabbit.

Never heard such rubbish...as others have pointed out, Charlie wasn't late very often and usually him an Bill there many hours before the others. The drumming on GS is so Charlie Watts style in every way. Being generous, maybe Waller was around during recording and had a go on Charlie's kit whilst they were working on the song and then assumed it was him on the recording, but even that is bordering on fantasy.

Over the years and more recently there seems to be a surge of musicians coming out of the woodwork to state that they played on various classic rock songs, but as with this, have little evidence to support their claims.

Charlie Watts.

A comical suggestion. At least, he could have tried to fool us with some other, un-characteristic Charlie-number. This is Charlie all the way, of course.

Quote
Turner68
Charlie Watts.

Charlie's good tonight, isn't he?

On GS I hear mr.Charles drumming, no doubt...

Hard to imagine two more different drummers. That's all I'd say

No mention of Waller on the drums in Keith's book LIFE, he does mention certain players on different songs, guys like Gram Parsons, Billy Preston and such but the book does say Jim Dickinson was on piano for Wild Horses instead of "Stu" Ian Stewart.
Almost thru the book and is a great read on the history of The Stones.