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Re: Heaven question
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: May 22, 2020 22:10

If it weren't for credits, people would assume it was all Richards on "Live With Me". smileys with beer

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: May 22, 2020 22:22

Why do the original credits for Brown Sugar,which came with the album Sticky Fingers in1971,sayTaylor played guitar on BrownnSugar?

Re: Heaven question
Date: May 22, 2020 22:43

Quote
Taylor1
Why do the original credits for Brown Sugar,which came with the album Sticky Fingers in1971,sayTaylor played guitar on BrownnSugar?

Because he played lead guitar on all the other version, but the one that wound up on the album (that didn't have a lead guitar or a solo)?

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: May 22, 2020 23:14

Quote
Hairball
It's always been amongst my favorite Keithless Stones tunes. thumbs up
"Sway" will remain #1 forever!

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: May 22, 2020 23:22

Why would Mick Taylor not be playing on Brown Sugar? I don't know which part though, I assumed it was the acoustic guitar maybe. Both Zentgraf and Keno list him as playing on the Sticky Fingers version.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: May 22, 2020 23:29

Was Heaven recorded in Winnebago?

Re: Heaven question
Date: May 22, 2020 23:46

Quote
SomeGuy
Why would Mick Taylor not be playing on Brown Sugar? I don't know which part though, I assumed it was the acoustic guitar maybe. Both Zentgraf and Keno list him as playing on the Sticky Fingers version.

Because all the three guitars are Keith.

Taylor's lead guitar didn't make the record. Keith added a second electric (in addition to the open G guitar which plays the riff/main rhythm) and Bobby got the solo. Keith has stated numerous that he played the acoustic.

It's a wrong credit.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: May 23, 2020 01:35

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
SomeGuy
Why would Mick Taylor not be playing on Brown Sugar? I don't know which part though, I assumed it was the acoustic guitar maybe. Both Zentgraf and Keno list him as playing on the Sticky Fingers version.

Because all the three guitars are Keith.

Taylor's lead guitar didn't make the record. Keith added a second electric (in addition to the open G guitar which plays the riff/main rhythm) and Bobby got the solo. Keith has stated numerous that he played the acoustic.

It's a wrong credit.

What strikes me as weird is that a LOT of credits on albums are wrong, not just Stones albums, so this needn't surprise us.
I'm wondering, do you have a source?

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 23, 2020 01:38

We got Dandeeeeeee .....
We dont need no stinkin' source ......



ROCKMAN

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: May 23, 2020 01:46

Quote
Rockman
We got Dandeeeeeee .....
We dont need no stinkin' source ......

How could I be so silly!
smileys with beer

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: May 23, 2020 04:05

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
SomeGuy
Why would Mick Taylor not be playing on Brown Sugar? I don't know which part though, I assumed it was the acoustic guitar maybe. Both Zentgraf and Keno list him as playing on the Sticky Fingers version.

Because all the three guitars are Keith.

Taylor's lead guitar didn't make the record. Keith added a second electric (in addition to the open G guitar which plays the riff/main rhythm) and Bobby got the solo. Keith has stated numerous that he played the acoustic.

It's a wrong credit.

I’m not so quick to assume there are only three guitar parts. The electrics could be cobbled together. This was not a one take wonder, they worked on it for quite some time.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: May 23, 2020 04:17

I find it hard to believe that the credits for who played on Brown Sugar which came with the album are inaccurate. Maybe if it was a reissue many years later, but not in 1971. The album credits Ry Cooder oSister Morphine and says Keith is not playing guitar on Sway or Moonloght Mile.So if they are omitting Keith on those tracks, why would they not omit Taylor on Brown Sugar?

Re: Heaven question
Date: May 23, 2020 08:43

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
SomeGuy
Why would Mick Taylor not be playing on Brown Sugar? I don't know which part though, I assumed it was the acoustic guitar maybe. Both Zentgraf and Keno list him as playing on the Sticky Fingers version.

Because all the three guitars are Keith.

Taylor's lead guitar didn't make the record. Keith added a second electric (in addition to the open G guitar which plays the riff/main rhythm) and Bobby got the solo. Keith has stated numerous that he played the acoustic.

It's a wrong credit.

I’m not so quick to assume there are only three guitar parts. The electrics could be cobbled together. This was not a one take wonder, they worked on it for quite some time.

Quick? It's been 49 years! smiling smiley

Cobbled together, where? And how?

As for how they could credit wrongly, it wouldn't be the first time. Look at Exile smiling smiley

Re: Heaven question
Date: May 23, 2020 08:49

Quote
Taylor1
I find it hard to believe that the credits for who played on Brown Sugar which came with the album are inaccurate. Maybe if it was a reissue many years later, but not in 1971. The album credits Ry Cooder oSister Morphine and says Keith is not playing guitar on Sway or Moonloght Mile.So if they are omitting Keith on those tracks, why would they not omit Taylor on Brown Sugar?

My theory on that is that they wiped Taylor's solo late in the process.

Here is Brown Sugar with Taylor's guitar.

[youtu.be]

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: May 23, 2020 08:52

Quote
exilestones
Kimsey is saying the track was laid down without him and then he overdubbed piano. No conflict. Re-read the statements.


++++++++++


Song Facts Says:

Along with "Neighbors," this was one of two songs on Tattoo You recorded specifically for the album. The other tracks started as outtakes for other albums.


Keith Richards doesn't play on this track; their bass player Bill Wyman played guitar and also synthesizer and bass. Mick Jagger also played guitar on the track, and the only other performer was Charlie Watts on drums.


[www.songfacts.com]


Was Heaven and Neighbors new songs for Tattoo You or were they left-overs too?

Re: Heaven question
Date: May 23, 2020 10:16

Quote
exilestones
Quote
exilestones
Kimsey is saying the track was laid down without him and then he overdubbed piano. No conflict. Re-read the statements.


++++++++++


Song Facts Says:

Along with "Neighbors," this was one of two songs on Tattoo You recorded specifically for the album. The other tracks started as outtakes for other albums.


Keith Richards doesn't play on this track; their bass player Bill Wyman played guitar and also synthesizer and bass. Mick Jagger also played guitar on the track, and the only other performer was Charlie Watts on drums.


[www.songfacts.com]


Was Heaven and Neighbors new songs for Tattoo You or were they left-overs too?

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: May 23, 2020 16:10

Quote
DandelionPowderman

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

Thank you.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: May 23, 2020 16:49

Quote
DandelionPowderman

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

You sure Dandy?.................according to Martin Elliott's book "Complete recording sessions" there were sessions in Paris: EMI Pathe Marconi and NYC - Electric lady - Atlantic studio between 11 Oct 1980 - 12 Nov 1980 and April - June 1981.......where Heaven was started (while waiting for Keith) and finished as was Neighbours......

Again, according to Martin Elliott's book all the other earlier stuff was also finished and/or remixed at these sessions......

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 23, 2020 20:14

Quote
EddieByword
Quote
DandelionPowderman

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

You sure Dandy?.................according to Martin Elliott's book "Complete recording sessions" there were sessions in Paris: EMI Pathe Marconi and NYC - Electric lady - Atlantic studio between 11 Oct 1980 - 12 Nov 1980 and April - June 1981.......where Heaven was started (while waiting for Keith) and finished as was Neighbours......

Again, according to Martin Elliott's book all the other earlier stuff was also finished and/or remixed at these sessions......

The Stones have said many times over the years that nothing new was recorded for TATTOO YOU.

Chris Kimsey:

"Since I'd recorded a number of songs during Some Girls and Emotional Rescue that they'd never used, I assumed there must be other bits and pieces lying around," he explains. "So, I spent a couple of months going through all their tapes and I found these gems: 'Waiting On A Friend' and 'Tops' were from the Goat's Head Soup sessions; 'Slave' and 'Worried About You' were from Black & Blue; 'Start Me Up' was from Some Girls; and 'Hang Fire', 'Little T&A', 'Black Limousine', 'Neighbors', 'Heaven' and 'No Use In Crying' were from Emotional Rescue. I did rough mixes at Olympic of everything I'd found, sent them to the band members, and then began working on the tracks.

[www.soundonsound.com]

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 23, 2020 20:18

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
exilestones
Quote
exilestones
Kimsey is saying the track was laid down without him and then he overdubbed piano. No conflict. Re-read the statements.


++++++++++


Song Facts Says:

Along with "Neighbors," this was one of two songs on Tattoo You recorded specifically for the album. The other tracks started as outtakes for other albums.


Keith Richards doesn't play on this track; their bass player Bill Wyman played guitar and also synthesizer and bass. Mick Jagger also played guitar on the track, and the only other performer was Charlie Watts on drums.


[www.songfacts.com]


Was Heaven and Neighbors new songs for Tattoo You or were they left-overs too?

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

songfacts.com is garbage.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 23, 2020 20:25

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
SomeGuy
Why would Mick Taylor not be playing on Brown Sugar? I don't know which part though, I assumed it was the acoustic guitar maybe. Both Zentgraf and Keno list him as playing on the Sticky Fingers version.

Because all the three guitars are Keith.

Taylor's lead guitar didn't make the record. Keith added a second electric (in addition to the open G guitar which plays the riff/main rhythm) and Bobby got the solo. Keith has stated numerous that he played the acoustic.

It's a wrong credit.

I’m not so quick to assume there are only three guitar parts. The electrics could be cobbled together. This was not a one take wonder, they worked on it for quite some time.

Quick? It's been 49 years! smiling smiley

Cobbled together, where? And how?

As for how they could credit wrongly, it wouldn't be the first time. Look at Exile smiling smiley

Brown Sugar was tracked December 3rd and 4th, 1969 in Florence, AL.

12-9 through 12-18 they worked on it in London.

In 4-24-1970 they finished it in London.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: May 23, 2020 20:40

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
DandelionPowderman

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

You sure Dandy?.................according to Martin Elliott's book "Complete recording sessions" there were sessions in Paris: EMI Pathe Marconi and NYC - Electric lady - Atlantic studio between 11 Oct 1980 - 12 Nov 1980 and April - June 1981.......where Heaven was started (while waiting for Keith) and finished as was Neighbours......

Again, according to Martin Elliott's book all the other earlier stuff was also finished and/or remixed at these sessions......

The Stones have said many times over the years that nothing new was recorded for TATTOO YOU.

Chris Kimsey:

"Since I'd recorded a number of songs during Some Girls and Emotional Rescue that they'd never used, I assumed there must be other bits and pieces lying around," he explains. "So, I spent a couple of months going through all their tapes and I found these gems: 'Waiting On A Friend' and 'Tops' were from the Goat's Head Soup sessions; 'Slave' and 'Worried About You' were from Black & Blue; 'Start Me Up' was from Some Girls; and 'Hang Fire', 'Little T&A', 'Black Limousine', 'Neighbors', 'Heaven' and 'No Use In Crying' were from Emotional Rescue. I did rough mixes at Olympic of everything I'd found, sent them to the band members, and then began working on the tracks.

[www.soundonsound.com]

Interesting contradiction.

Martin Elliott says "The band did get back together in October with Chris Kimsey at the helm, Mick was playing some guitar chords which Chris accompanied on the piano. the other early arrivers, Charlie and Bill continued to work on the track. Bill, not only was on bass but also synthesiser. Before they knew it, the track, enhanced by studio techniques and of Chris Kimsey and Co. began to feel good".

Also, Zico Zentgraf's first mention of Heaven is 11th Oct. 1980............ [www.nzentgraf.de]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-23 20:42 by EddieByword.

Re: Heaven question
Date: May 23, 2020 21:11

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
SomeGuy
Why would Mick Taylor not be playing on Brown Sugar? I don't know which part though, I assumed it was the acoustic guitar maybe. Both Zentgraf and Keno list him as playing on the Sticky Fingers version.

Because all the three guitars are Keith.

Taylor's lead guitar didn't make the record. Keith added a second electric (in addition to the open G guitar which plays the riff/main rhythm) and Bobby got the solo. Keith has stated numerous that he played the acoustic.

It's a wrong credit.

I’m not so quick to assume there are only three guitar parts. The electrics could be cobbled together. This was not a one take wonder, they worked on it for quite some time.

Quick? It's been 49 years! smiling smiley

Cobbled together, where? And how?

As for how they could credit wrongly, it wouldn't be the first time. Look at Exile smiling smiley

Brown Sugar was tracked December 3rd and 4th, 1969 in Florence, AL.

12-9 through 12-18 they worked on it in London.

In 4-24-1970 they finished it in London.

Ok, 50 years, then smiling smiley 49 years since it was released, though.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 23, 2020 21:30

Quote
EddieByword
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
DandelionPowderman

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

You sure Dandy?.................according to Martin Elliott's book "Complete recording sessions" there were sessions in Paris: EMI Pathe Marconi and NYC - Electric lady - Atlantic studio between 11 Oct 1980 - 12 Nov 1980 and April - June 1981.......where Heaven was started (while waiting for Keith) and finished as was Neighbours......

Again, according to Martin Elliott's book all the other earlier stuff was also finished and/or remixed at these sessions......

The Stones have said many times over the years that nothing new was recorded for TATTOO YOU.

Chris Kimsey:

"Since I'd recorded a number of songs during Some Girls and Emotional Rescue that they'd never used, I assumed there must be other bits and pieces lying around," he explains. "So, I spent a couple of months going through all their tapes and I found these gems: 'Waiting On A Friend' and 'Tops' were from the Goat's Head Soup sessions; 'Slave' and 'Worried About You' were from Black & Blue; 'Start Me Up' was from Some Girls; and 'Hang Fire', 'Little T&A', 'Black Limousine', 'Neighbors', 'Heaven' and 'No Use In Crying' were from Emotional Rescue. I did rough mixes at Olympic of everything I'd found, sent them to the band members, and then began working on the tracks.

[www.soundonsound.com]

Interesting contradiction.

Martin Elliott says "The band did get back together in October with Chris Kimsey at the helm, Mick was playing some guitar chords which Chris accompanied on the piano. the other early arrivers, Charlie and Bill continued to work on the track. Bill, not only was on bass but also synthesiser. Before they knew it, the track, enhanced by studio techniques and of Chris Kimsey and Co. began to feel good".

Also, Zico Zentgraf's first mention of Heaven is 11th Oct. 1980............ [www.nzentgraf.de]

Nope. It's not really a contradiction, the Martin Elliott stuff, just wrong information.

1979 EMOTTIONAL RESCUE sessions.

790621A 10th June - 7th July & late July - 25th August & 12th September - 19th October:
Boulogne-Billancourt (near Paris), France, Pathé Marconi Studios. Producers:
The Glimmer Twins. Sound engineer: Chris Kimsey. Additional musicians:
Bobby Keys (sax)/Sugar Blue (harm)/Martin Gordon (bass; two days in
September)/Boz Scaggs (voc, gtr)
- Dance I (MJ/KR/RW) -early lyrics
- Dance II (MJ/KR/RW) -early lyrics, with `three, four..."-count-in
- Dance III (MJ/KR/RW) -early lyrics with `two, three, four"-count-in
- Dance IV (MJ/KR/RW) -first early version with original intro
- Down In The Hole I (MJ/KR) -early version with partly different lyrics
- Emotional Rescue II (MJ/KR) -long version
- Hang Fire IV (MJ/KR) -no piano, no backing vocals
- Hang Fire V (MJ/KR) -first version with ‘doo doo doo’-chorus but no piano
- Hang Fire VI (MJ/KR) -with piano added on version V
- Heaven I (MJ/KR) -early version with guide vocals
- Indian Girl I (MJ/KR) -unverified early version without horns
- Instrumental ( ) -unverified
- It's A Lie I (MJ/KR) -with harmonica intro
- It's A Lie II (MJ/KR) -with drums intro
- Jah Is Not Dead (MJ/KR) -Max Romeo sharing vocals, Boz Scaggs on backing
vocals and on guitar
- Jam ( ) -with Bobby Keys; unverified
- Let Me Go I (MJ/KR) -without sax
- Let Me Go II (MJ/KR) -’Emotional Rescue’-version
- Neighbours I (MJ/KR) -early version with guide vocals
- No Use In Crying I (MJ/KR/RW) -shorter early version
- No Use In Crying II (MJ/KR/RW) -longer early version
- No Use In Crying III (MJ/KR/RW) -similar to version II, but organ sets in earlier
- No Use In Crying IV (MJ/KR/RW) -edit of early version
- Send It To Me I (MJ/KR) -long version with vocals
- Summer Romance IV (MJ/KR) -more finished lyrics than III
- Summer Romance V (MJ/KR) -finished lyrics, but diff. vocal take, one guitar less
- Summer Romance VI (MJ/KR) -finished lyrics, plus bvoc; long version of VII
- “Time Flies” (MJ/KR) -unverified, title unsure; with Martin Gordon on bass
- Tones (MJ/KR?) -unverified
- We Had It All I (Troy Seals/Donny Fritts) -without harmonica
- We Had It All II (Troy Seals/Donny Fritts) -version I with harmonica
- We Had It All III (Troy Seals/Donny Fritts) -more finished version
- Where The Boys Go III (MJ/KR) -’Where The Boys All Go’-version, 1st version
with proper intro
- Where The Boys Go IV (MJ/KR) -different lead vocals, no girls choir, longer solo
- Where The Boys Go V (MJ/KR) -version used for thermo-promo

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 23, 2020 21:43

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
Stoneage
So,....HMS was right after all. Tattoo You is a compilation of seventies leftovers...

Did people ever debate that?

All albums are compilations.

The idiocy of stating such a thing because one has such severe cognition issues as an argument as to what comprises a compilation when the very definition of 'album' is... is @#$%& ridiculous.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: May 23, 2020 22:10

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
DandelionPowderman

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

You sure Dandy?.................according to Martin Elliott's book "Complete recording sessions" there were sessions in Paris: EMI Pathe Marconi and NYC - Electric lady - Atlantic studio between 11 Oct 1980 - 12 Nov 1980 and April - June 1981.......where Heaven was started (while waiting for Keith) and finished as was Neighbours......

Again, according to Martin Elliott's book all the other earlier stuff was also finished and/or remixed at these sessions......

The Stones have said many times over the years that nothing new was recorded for TATTOO YOU.

Chris Kimsey:

"Since I'd recorded a number of songs during Some Girls and Emotional Rescue that they'd never used, I assumed there must be other bits and pieces lying around," he explains. "So, I spent a couple of months going through all their tapes and I found these gems: 'Waiting On A Friend' and 'Tops' were from the Goat's Head Soup sessions; 'Slave' and 'Worried About You' were from Black & Blue; 'Start Me Up' was from Some Girls; and 'Hang Fire', 'Little T&A', 'Black Limousine', 'Neighbors', 'Heaven' and 'No Use In Crying' were from Emotional Rescue. I did rough mixes at Olympic of everything I'd found, sent them to the band members, and then began working on the tracks.

[www.soundonsound.com]

Interesting contradiction.

Martin Elliott says "The band did get back together in October with Chris Kimsey at the helm, Mick was playing some guitar chords which Chris accompanied on the piano. the other early arrivers, Charlie and Bill continued to work on the track. Bill, not only was on bass but also synthesiser. Before they knew it, the track, enhanced by studio techniques and of Chris Kimsey and Co. began to feel good".

Also, Zico Zentgraf's first mention of Heaven is 11th Oct. 1980............ [www.nzentgraf.de]

Nope. It's not really a contradiction, the Martin Elliott stuff, just wrong information.

1979 EMOTTIONAL RESCUE sessions.

790621A 10th June - 7th July & late July - 25th August & 12th September - 19th October:
Boulogne-Billancourt (near Paris), France, Pathé Marconi Studios. Producers:
The Glimmer Twins. Sound engineer: Chris Kimsey. Additional musicians:
Bobby Keys (sax)/Sugar Blue (harm)/Martin Gordon (bass; two days in
September)/Boz Scaggs (voc, gtr)

- Hang Fire VI (MJ/KR) -with piano added on version V
- Heaven I (MJ/KR) -early version with guide vocals

- Neighbours I (MJ/KR) -early version with guide vocals

Hmmm....well, being as pedantic as I know you can be, yours was a contraction of what Martin Elliott wrote - Martin Elliott wrote that Heaven was written for Tattoo You, you asserted the opposite, that is wasn't - the fact Martin Elliott's statement is looking like it is inaccurate is irrelevant, the fact is, you did contradict it. (So, it was a contradiction)

Strange though, I did search Heaven on Zentgraf's site and couldn't find Heaven I........(thanks for the direction........

Hope you weren't too offended or outraged by my contribution even though it was seemingly wrong..............grinning smiley

Anyone know where Nico Zentgraf gets his info?.............

(I don't know where Martin Elliott gets his.......

My main statement however, to Dandy, was accurate if Zentgraf is to relied on, there were sessions in 1980 and 1981 - albeit not full band sessions...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-23 22:17 by EddieByword.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: May 23, 2020 22:41

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
SomeGuy
Why would Mick Taylor not be playing on Brown Sugar? I don't know which part though, I assumed it was the acoustic guitar maybe. Both Zentgraf and Keno list him as playing on the Sticky Fingers version.

Because all the three guitars are Keith.

Taylor's lead guitar didn't make the record. Keith added a second electric (in addition to the open G guitar which plays the riff/main rhythm) and Bobby got the solo. Keith has stated numerous that he played the acoustic.

It's a wrong credit.

I’m not so quick to assume there are only three guitar parts. The electrics could be cobbled together. This was not a one take wonder, they worked on it for quite some time.

Quick? It's been 49 years! smiling smiley

Cobbled together, where? And how?

As for how they could credit wrongly, it wouldn't be the first time. Look at Exile smiling smiley

The new Exile lists everybody on every song.

The verses on BS could be a different part than the choruses. Remember Ya Yas? You know better, my friend.

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 23, 2020 22:43

Quote
EddieByword
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
DandelionPowderman

No band sessions in 1980 or 1981. Both are from the ER sessions.

You sure Dandy?.................according to Martin Elliott's book "Complete recording sessions" there were sessions in Paris: EMI Pathe Marconi and NYC - Electric lady - Atlantic studio between 11 Oct 1980 - 12 Nov 1980 and April - June 1981.......where Heaven was started (while waiting for Keith) and finished as was Neighbours......

Again, according to Martin Elliott's book all the other earlier stuff was also finished and/or remixed at these sessions......

The Stones have said many times over the years that nothing new was recorded for TATTOO YOU.

Chris Kimsey:

"Since I'd recorded a number of songs during Some Girls and Emotional Rescue that they'd never used, I assumed there must be other bits and pieces lying around," he explains. "So, I spent a couple of months going through all their tapes and I found these gems: 'Waiting On A Friend' and 'Tops' were from the Goat's Head Soup sessions; 'Slave' and 'Worried About You' were from Black & Blue; 'Start Me Up' was from Some Girls; and 'Hang Fire', 'Little T&A', 'Black Limousine', 'Neighbors', 'Heaven' and 'No Use In Crying' were from Emotional Rescue. I did rough mixes at Olympic of everything I'd found, sent them to the band members, and then began working on the tracks.

[www.soundonsound.com]

Interesting contradiction.

Martin Elliott says "The band did get back together in October with Chris Kimsey at the helm, Mick was playing some guitar chords which Chris accompanied on the piano. the other early arrivers, Charlie and Bill continued to work on the track. Bill, not only was on bass but also synthesiser. Before they knew it, the track, enhanced by studio techniques and of Chris Kimsey and Co. began to feel good".

Also, Zico Zentgraf's first mention of Heaven is 11th Oct. 1980............ [www.nzentgraf.de]

Nope. It's not really a contradiction, the Martin Elliott stuff, just wrong information.

1979 EMOTTIONAL RESCUE sessions.

790621A 10th June - 7th July & late July - 25th August & 12th September - 19th October:
Boulogne-Billancourt (near Paris), France, Pathé Marconi Studios. Producers:
The Glimmer Twins. Sound engineer: Chris Kimsey. Additional musicians:
Bobby Keys (sax)/Sugar Blue (harm)/Martin Gordon (bass; two days in
September)/Boz Scaggs (voc, gtr)

- Hang Fire VI (MJ/KR) -with piano added on version V
- Heaven I (MJ/KR) -early version with guide vocals

- Neighbours I (MJ/KR) -early version with guide vocals

Hmmm....well, being as pedantic as I know you can be, yours was a contraction of what Martin Elliott wrote - Martin Elliott wrote that Heaven was written for Tattoo You, you asserted the opposite, that is wasn't - the fact Martin Elliott's statement is looking like it is inaccurate is irrelevant, the fact is, you did contradict it. (So, it was a contradiction)

Strange though, I did search Heaven on Zentgraf's site and couldn't find Heaven I........(thanks for the direction........

Hope you weren't too offended or outraged by my contribution even though it was seemingly wrong..............grinning smiley

Anyone know where Nico Zentgraf gets his info?.............

(I don't know where Martin Elliott gets his.......

My main statement however, to Dandy, was accurate if Zentgraf is to relied on, there were sessions in 1980 and 1981 - albeit not full band sessions...

HAHAHAHAHA nooo, no problem, mon!

Re: Track Talk: Heaven
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 23, 2020 22:54

Going by Martin Elliott's book - it's like anything else: a book is written, new information comes to light, the book is obsolete.

There are a few other errors in his book as I recall.

Well, you know, I don't think there's anything bad in using stuff (from) previous sessions. We recorded 20, 25 tracks and if you go on and if I say to everyone, Well... the first tracks to be finished are the ones that are gonna be on the album - if a track's not finished or if people have got doubts about it, then we'll save it, we'll recut it, throw it out the window, or put it on a future album.

- Mick Jagger, 1982

It's just that those songs didn't seem to fit on any album until now. We tried to use them before but they didn't seem to work. They're good songs though. But you know every album has a lot of oldies on it, and has done for years. We've used, like, Sweet Virginia which was on Exile On Main Street. That was recorded from before Beggars Banquet (sic).

- Mick Jagger, 1981

Sometimes the problem is the other way around. Sometimes you don't have enough tracks. You still go through the same process of what actually ends up on a record. Emotional Rescue was an album made up of the songs that were the most advanced of the material we recorded in Paris. Tattoo You is the one that took a little longer to get together. Some tracks weren't quite ready, there wasn't enough room on Emotional Rescue, the music had to age just like good wine (laughs).

- Keith Richards, 1982


[timeisonourside.com]

Re: Heaven question
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 23, 2020 23:00

Quote
EddieByword
My main statement however, to Dandy, was accurate if Zentgraf is to relied on, there were sessions in 1980 and 1981 - albeit not full band sessions...

The Rolling Stones did not record any new tracks in 1980 or 1981.

The only sessions were Mick with various people (Sonny Rollins, Mike Carabello, Barry Sage, Chris Kimsey, the McLean sisters, Pete Townsend) doing overdubs in 1980 and 1981.

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