Mick said "Anarchy is the only slight glimmer of hope."
Where and under which circumstances did he say that? I guess 60-s. Did he mean it? Was he an anarchist?

Btw, isn't anarchy a middle class thing?
I don't recall ever meeting a working class anarchist.

I've never thought of anarchy as having class boundaries.

Can't say I've ever heard Mick saying this particular phrase, but could it have been around the time of SFM?

May have sounded good at the time but if you really want to know what it'd be like watch "Escape From New York".

That must have been in the late sixties when it was fashionable with left-wing views in Western Europe. Nowadays he's conservative (as far as I know). You're right, anarchism (and syndikalism/Trotskism/Marxism) is a pure middle class-thing, at least in these days. It was always been more frequent in Central Europe though. In Sweden we had a very well known syndikalist named Joel Emmanuel Hägglund "Joe Hill" who was executed by firing squad in Salt Lake City november 19, 1915. President Woodrow Wilson tried to save him, but in vain.

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proudmary
Mick said "Anarchy is the only slight glimmer of hope."

Where and under which circumstances did he say that? I guess 60-s.

Apparently in a 1967 interview:

"The Commandments say 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' and half the world is in training to annihilate the other half. Nobody would get me in uniform and off to Aden to kill a lot of people I've never met and have nothing against anyway. I know people say they are against wars and yet they go on fighting them. Millions of marvellous young men are killed and in five minutes everybody seems to have forgotten all about it. War stems from power-mad politicians and patriots."

"Anarchy is the only slight glimmer of hope. Not the popular conception of it - men in black cloaks lurching around with hidden bombs - but a freedom of every man personally for himself. There should be no such thing as private property. Anybody should be able to go where he likes and do what he likes. Politics, like the legal system, is dominated by old men. Old men who are also bugged by religion. And the law - the law's outdated and doesn't cater enough for individual cases."

"There should be no such thing as private property" - says the man who owns almost half the world! What strikes me is that in the late sixties he comes across as an intellectual. He has delicate taste in the fine arts, he recites Shelley, reads Bulgakov and likes to discuss political issues. It was Jagger who made me intrested in the likes of Shelley, Keats and Lord Byron. What happened with his intellectual curiosity later on?

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Stoneage
"There should be no such thing as private property" - says the man who owns almost half the world!

It's very hard to escape the system, even if you don't like it. Most people on this forum, even if they are not rich, will be wealthier than most people in third world countries. Should we feel guilty about that?! I think that the call for personal freedom is the most important part of the quote.

Mick got a close up look at anarchy at Altamont, and it was probably there that he decided he didn't like it so much after all.

He was probably refering to Proudhon (an anarchist) who said "Property is theft". Property means means of production in marxist terminology. Not peronal belongings.

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TippyToe
Mick got a close up look at anarchy at Altamont, and it was probably there that he decided he didn't like it so much after all.

THIS. ^^^^^^

***********************************************************
"What I'm doing is a sexual thing. I dance and all dancing is a replacement for sex". - Mick Jagger

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lsbz

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proudmary
Mick said "Anarchy is the only slight glimmer of hope."

Where and under which circumstances did he say that? I guess 60-s.

Apparently in a 1967 interview:

"The Commandments say 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' and half the world is in training to annihilate the other half. Nobody would get me in uniform and off to Aden to kill a lot of people I've never met and have nothing against anyway. I know people say they are against wars and yet they go on fighting them. Millions of marvellous young men are killed and in five minutes everybody seems to have forgotten all about it. War stems from power-mad politicians and patriots."

"Anarchy is the only slight glimmer of hope. Not the popular conception of it - men in black cloaks lurching around with hidden bombs - but a freedom of every man personally for himself. There should be no such thing as private property. Anybody should be able to go where he likes and do what he likes. Politics, like the legal system, is dominated by old men. Old men who are also bugged by religion. And the law - the law's outdated and doesn't cater enough for individual cases."

Thanks a lot,lsbz, I've never read this full quote. In the 60-s he had interesting ideas and wasn't shy to say it out loud - I mean on record. What happens to him in the 70-s? I think he is still the same man with strong opinions but preffers to seem shallow.


It's very hard to escape the system, even if you don't like it. Most people on this forum, even if they are not rich, will be wealthier than most people in third world countries. Should we feel guilty about that?! I think that the call for personal freedom is the most important part of the quote.

I agree with you

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shadooby
May have sounded good at the time but if you really want to know what it'd be like watch "Escape From New York".

For your political education : anarchy means absence of autority coming FROM ABOVE(the State, the judges the policemen etc). In a land where anarchy prevails order will be enforced by citizens themselves. It happened in parts of Spain in 1936 after the Republic was proclaimed.

Anarchy does not equal mess or "dog eat dog" world.

I'm glad they didn't taped all the things I said when I was my 20's.............

__________________________

Sorry to interrupt with a John Lennon quote from Imagine:
Imagine there's no heaven - it's EASY if you try (= religion)
Imagine there's no countries - it isN'T HARD to do (= politics)
Imagine no possessions - I WONDER if you can (= property)

Very interesting!

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NICOS
I'm glad they didn't taped all the things I said when I was my 20's.............

...Quote...Mick Jagger......Out of Control 1997................."I was young...I was foolish....I was vain..."

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EddieByword

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NICOS
I'm glad they didn't taped all the things I said when I was my 20's.............

...Quote...Mick Jagger......Out of Control 1997................."I was young...I was foolish....I was vain..."

I don't see why he should be ashamed for what he said back then.I prefer that attitude from what they are today.

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StratoGR

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EddieByword

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NICOS
I'm glad they didn't taped all the things I said when I was my 20's.............

...Quote...Mick Jagger......Out of Control 1997................."I was young...I was foolish....I was vain..."

I don't see why he should be ashamed for what he said back then.I prefer that attitude from what they are today.

Not suggesting to ashamed of everything, but I agree with Shadooby earlier in the thread (RE. Escape from NYC)....to cope with real anarchy you'd need to be young,fit, and armed.(and extremely lucky) Basically you'd have to live your daily life like a marine in Iraq or Afghanistan just 'to get the shopping in'.....no thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-19 14:41 by EddieByword.

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shadooby
May have sounded good at the time but if you really want to know what it'd be like watch "Escape From New York".

The word anarchist has become lazy shorthand for anyone who wants to bring about disorder and upheaval. But an anarchist is really somebody who advocates the abolition of government and wants a social system based on voluntary co-operation

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proudmary

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shadooby
May have sounded good at the time but if you really want to know what it'd be like watch "Escape From New York".

The word anarchist has become lazy shorthand for anyone who wants to bring about disorder and upheaval. But an anarchist is really somebody who advocates the abolition of government and wants a social system based on voluntary co-operation

I understand your point about the bastardisation of the word anarchy, personally because it's such a common misuse I don't bother trying to contest it anymore and now think in terms of Autarchy for --- somebody who advocates the abolition of government and wants a social system based on voluntary co-operation----- the only problem with that as an ideal is that to succeed it requires everyone to be fair, rational and basically have a good heart.....well, to borrow and adapt an Ian Dury line.....there ain't half been some greedy bastards....(Granted, there are plenty of them infesting and in a lot of cases worldwide running the goverments too) so.................???

The crazy thing about anarchy is that it doesn't last. Almost always a form total government arises in it's place when people get tired of chaos. Voluntary contribution to the government? The real question is what happens when you don't want to contribute? To quote the who "meet the old boss, same as the new boss." I would agree with the anarchist that the best government is the weakest and least intrusive and the government and politicians should operate within boundaries and in fear of the people they govern. Ask Mao, Or Stalin if they agree.
Maybe I'm just a petty parochialist.

Go Dawgs!

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Stoneage
You're right, anarchism (and syndikalism/Trotskism/Marxism) is a pure middle class-thing, at least in these days.

I always thought anarchism is a Russian thing these days. Or a Italian thing, which is about the same.

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JJHMick
Sorry to interrupt with a John Lennon quote from Imagine:
Imagine there's no heaven - it's EASY if you try (= religion)
Imagine there's no countries - it isN'T HARD to do (= politics)
Imagine no possessions - I WONDER if you can (= property)

Very interesting!

Good interpretation, but the last line should be:

"Imagine no possessions - I WONDER if you can (= capitalism)"

Anarchism is a utopian ideology and like most utopian ideologies it likes to ignore the practical aspects But anarchism isn't just a left-wing ideology - there are plenty of right-wing anarchists too.
The idea of the free-market is seeped in anarchist ideology - that the state shouldn't interfere in business.

If John Lennon really wanted to give up possessions the. Why did he keep his guitars, home, and song writing credits? A pie in the sky dreams.

it depends on what he means by 'is'.

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nankerphlege
Voluntary contribution to the government? The real question is what happens when you don't want to contribute?

What's a contribution?! In my opinion, in any society anyone contributes; just by one's sheer existence. People are used to governments and others telling them what is useful, but often that is very doubtful. Who wants to conform to a society of which arms producers can be regarded as succesful economic members?!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-19 22:04 by lsbz.

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Kleermaker
I always thought anarchism is a Russian thing these days. Or a Italian thing, which is about the same

Anarchism is a random phenomena in Europe. They do tend to turn-up around big EU-meetings, often dressed in black and, sometimes, with balaclavas. They carry black and red standards with images of Bakunin, Kropotkin and even Marx. They almost destroyed Gothenburg when we had a EU-meeting here in Sweden in 2001. One of the anarchists were shot by the police and he was, as always,a university-student, son of a professor, living in his parents villa in Bellevue (an upper-class area) in Gothenburg.

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Stoneage

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Kleermaker
I always thought anarchism is a Russian thing these days. Or a Italian thing, which is about the same

Anarchism is a random phenomena in Europe. They do tend to turn-up around big EU-meetings, often dressed in black and, sometimes, with balaclavas. They carry black and red standards with images of Bakunin, Kropotkin and even Marx. They almost destroyed Gothenburg when we had a EU-meeting here in Sweden in 2001. One of the anarchists were shot by the police and he was, as always,a university-student, son of a professor, living in his parents villa in Bellevue (an upper-class area) in Gothenburg.

You mean the political, 'left' anarchism. Sad story anyway. As for Trotskism, I doubt if anyone knows what it really means. The same goes for 'Marxism'.

Mick once marched in support of Angela Davis, but when he saw other protesters carrying hammer-and-sickle flags, he went up to them and said, "Don't you idiots know that Angela Davis would be treated a lot worse in the Soviet Union than she is here?"

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Title5Take1
Mick once marched in support of Angela Davis, but when he saw other protesters carrying hammer-and-sickle flags, he went up to them and said, "Don't you idiots know that Angela Davis would be treated a lot worse in the Soviet Union than she is here?"

The anarchism is the Russian idea of couse but there is not something more opposite to anarchism than Soviet Union. Beleive me, I know it on personal experience



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-20 12:40 by proudmary.