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Of course. But it seems to be a bit like the Woodstock Festival. Many people in Europe who where teenagers in around '69 remember the Woodstock festival as being the end of the 60's, and being real important to them and part of their growing-up etc. Problem is that the movie wasn't released in theaters in Europe until 1973, and there was hardly any mention in the press of the festival before that. In Holland, many people refer to Woodstock while the Kralingen Festival probably had a bigger effect.
The same with the Doors, in my opinion. The connection of the Doors and Vietnam as many people remember it perhaps has more to do with movies like Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now, and the true break-through in Europe seemed to be due to the '91 Doors movie.
Mathijs
Which or what kind of "break-through in Europe" are you referring to ?
I definetly remember the Doors´influenece even in the late 70´s/80´s here in
Germany and I realized this as well when visiting people in France around the same time.
I guess the movie you mentioned above must be this awful one starring Val Kilmer,isn´t it ?
I would be surprised if anyone seriously likes this crap movie...not to speak
about that this one could have led to any "break-through"...
I agree that one should generally distrust sudden mass popularity. But I regret that deviant artists are often underrated, and are often even not really accepted by their own bands. I think that this has played a role in the fate of Brian Jones, Syd Barrett and Jim Morrison. Acts are just what they are; they should not be taken too seriously. Exaggeration has always been an important aspect of rock.
If one can't appreciate the Marilyn Monroe mausoleum anecdote from Al Graham that I quoted earlier in the thread, one probably can also not fully appreciate Jim Morrison as a singer.
And "retired" from performing soon after with "mutual agreement"?! I don't know.
[en.wikipedia.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-02 14:52 by lsbz.
I also remember the Oliver Stone movie being a real kick for The Doors/Morrison mass popularity here in Finland. Suddenly almost everyone seemed to dig Morrison and his romantic poetic shamanism. Before that - through the 80's - there was some kind of cult following but nothing big at all. The Doors were, among others, just another legendary 60's name. The people who dig them dig typically also, for example, Hendrix, Joplin, CCR, etc. Being such an elitist snob as I am, I lost my interest in The Doors in the very minute the movie hit the cinemas... I simply hated the Morrison hype... Haven't actually yet recovered of that...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-02 16:04 by Doxa.
No, it did not! A crap movie... >
<
(But the itle of the movie is a very good indication how significant the myth of Morrison was at the time... Jim Morrison is also the inspiration behind the image (and partly voice) of Ville Valo, the singer of HIM, Finnish group that has had some international success in a genre of 'love metal' or what a hell that is called for..).
- Doxa
I am afraid that my image of Morrison is deeply influenced by the depiction of Val Kilmer. I just couldn't stand the move. But in retrospect, it was all part of a need for vintage R&R stars -the Stones were touring Europe again, the Doors movie was out, I remember the Monterey movie with Hendrix and Joplin...there was a certain urge for '60's stars, and Morrison fitted right in, with his anti-Vietnam and anti-establishment attitude, which now in retrospect wasn't true at all.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-03 11:18 by Mathijs.
My sentiments echoed exactly. Very good singer, very good voice. But overall the poetry had an explicit stated purpose of attempting to sound poetic. Morrison did succeed occasionally but to me the poetry is quite hollow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-03 00:23 by wanderingspirit66.
Great quote BigAl it's about the feeling
__________________________
I did
You´re always surprising me,Sway...nevermind,I like it....
Desmore said by the time of the first album release no one in the band was friends with Jim anymore.
Sniff Sniff
Thanks. I was actually toying with the idea of putting together another book, 20 years on, incorporating the tons of interview material that didn't make it into the first book. I can't really decide if it's a great idea or a giant snooze.
I agree
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
rollmops
()
Date: January 1, 2011 18:14
I think the Doors (like the Sex Pistols) made their audiences react strongly and widly.Although some would say it was an act, I believe Jim Morrison was for real. His deep, monotonic voice and those hellish shrieks that he would belt out may not be technically correct but they worked on me and lots of others.
Rock and Roll,
Mops
Rock and Roll,
Mops
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 2, 2011 12:28
Quote
lsbzQuote
Mathijs
They do seem to be much bigger and important in the States than in Europe, where they didn't get big until the '91 movie.
I'm European and I certainly liked them years before 1991.
Of course. But it seems to be a bit like the Woodstock Festival. Many people in Europe who where teenagers in around '69 remember the Woodstock festival as being the end of the 60's, and being real important to them and part of their growing-up etc. Problem is that the movie wasn't released in theaters in Europe until 1973, and there was hardly any mention in the press of the festival before that. In Holland, many people refer to Woodstock while the Kralingen Festival probably had a bigger effect.
The same with the Doors, in my opinion. The connection of the Doors and Vietnam as many people remember it perhaps has more to do with movies like Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now, and the true break-through in Europe seemed to be due to the '91 Doors movie.
Mathijs
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
shortfatfanny
()
Date: January 2, 2011 13:15
Quote
Mathijs
...and the true break-through in Europe seemed to be due to the '91 Doors movie.
Which or what kind of "break-through in Europe" are you referring to ?
I definetly remember the Doors´influenece even in the late 70´s/80´s here in
Germany and I realized this as well when visiting people in France around the same time.
I guess the movie you mentioned above must be this awful one starring Val Kilmer,isn´t it ?
I would be surprised if anyone seriously likes this crap movie...not to speak
about that this one could have led to any "break-through"...
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
lsbz
()
Date: January 2, 2011 13:19
Quote
Mathijs
The connection of the Doors and Vietnam as many people remember it perhaps has more to do with movies like Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now, and the true break-through in Europe seemed to be due to the '91 Doors movie.
I agree that one should generally distrust sudden mass popularity. But I regret that deviant artists are often underrated, and are often even not really accepted by their own bands. I think that this has played a role in the fate of Brian Jones, Syd Barrett and Jim Morrison. Acts are just what they are; they should not be taken too seriously. Exaggeration has always been an important aspect of rock.
If one can't appreciate the Marilyn Monroe mausoleum anecdote from Al Graham that I quoted earlier in the thread, one probably can also not fully appreciate Jim Morrison as a singer.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: January 2, 2011 14:27
His recitative style could be pompous but luckily he changed the mood from glad to sadness and became a blues singer.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
lsbz
()
Date: January 2, 2011 14:47
Quote
Redhotcarpet
His recitative style could be pompous but luckily he changed the mood from glad to sadness and became a blues singer.
And "retired" from performing soon after with "mutual agreement"?! I don't know.
[en.wikipedia.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-02 14:52 by lsbz.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
jeff14
()
Date: January 2, 2011 14:47
I think that it is interesting that the group moved within genres rather quickly. The first and second albums were Morrisons acid drenched dreams while the next two moved in a lighter jazzier feel, and the last two were more rock and blues based. Plus Morrisons voice was shot by LA Woman.
Sugerman's bio is more interesting when he talks about Iggy Pop as everything about Morrison was pretty much a rehash.
Does anyone remember a book called "Burn Down The Night" by someone named Craig Strete. I think that it was slapped together at the point of the first Doors resurgence back in the early 80's. Strete met with Morrison before the Doors and it follows them through LA parties and graveyards with Strete and Morrison trading poetry. It feels like utter fiction as preDoor Jim's antics weren't really all that documented. The funny part is at the end of the book, the author supposidily committed suicide, so who wrote the book?
Sugerman's bio is more interesting when he talks about Iggy Pop as everything about Morrison was pretty much a rehash.
Does anyone remember a book called "Burn Down The Night" by someone named Craig Strete. I think that it was slapped together at the point of the first Doors resurgence back in the early 80's. Strete met with Morrison before the Doors and it follows them through LA parties and graveyards with Strete and Morrison trading poetry. It feels like utter fiction as preDoor Jim's antics weren't really all that documented. The funny part is at the end of the book, the author supposidily committed suicide, so who wrote the book?
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 2, 2011 16:02
Quote
Mathijs
Now, and the true break-through in Europe seemed to be due to the '91 Doors movie.
Mathijs
I also remember the Oliver Stone movie being a real kick for The Doors/Morrison mass popularity here in Finland. Suddenly almost everyone seemed to dig Morrison and his romantic poetic shamanism. Before that - through the 80's - there was some kind of cult following but nothing big at all. The Doors were, among others, just another legendary 60's name. The people who dig them dig typically also, for example, Hendrix, Joplin, CCR, etc. Being such an elitist snob as I am, I lost my interest in The Doors in the very minute the movie hit the cinemas... I simply hated the Morrison hype... Haven't actually yet recovered of that...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-02 16:04 by Doxa.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: January 2, 2011 17:42
[finnish.imdb.com]
And this Finnish movie didnt help you Doxa? Minä ja Morrison (Me and Morisson).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-02 17:42 by Redhotcarpet.
And this Finnish movie didnt help you Doxa? Minä ja Morrison (Me and Morisson).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-02 17:42 by Redhotcarpet.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 2, 2011 18:14
Quote
Redhotcarpet
[finnish.imdb.com]
And this Finnish movie didnt help you Doxa? Minä ja Morrison (Me and Morisson).
No, it did not! A crap movie... >
<(But the itle of the movie is a very good indication how significant the myth of Morrison was at the time... Jim Morrison is also the inspiration behind the image (and partly voice) of Ville Valo, the singer of HIM, Finnish group that has had some international success in a genre of 'love metal' or what a hell that is called for..).
- Doxa
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
proudmary
()
Date: January 2, 2011 21:55
Being such an elitist snob as I am, I lost my interest in The Doors in the very minute the movie hit the cinemas... I simply hated the Morrison hype... Haven't actually yet recovered of that...
- Doxa
Same here. There is talk about Hendrix movie - I'm terrified, don't want hate him too
- Doxa
Same here. There is talk about Hendrix movie - I'm terrified, don't want hate him too
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 2, 2011 23:25
Quote
DoxaQuote
Mathijs
Now, and the true break-through in Europe seemed to be due to the '91 Doors movie.
Mathijs
I also remember the Oliver Stone movie being a real kick for The Doors/Morrison mass popularity here in Finland. Suddenly almost everyone seemed to dig Morrison and his romantic poetic shamanism. Before that - through the 80's - there was some kind of cult following but nothing big at all. The Doors were, among others, just another legendary 60's name. The people who dig them dig typically also, for example, Hendrix, Joplin, CCR, etc. Being such an elitist snob as I am, I lost my interest in The Doors in the very minute the movie hit the cinemas... I simply hated the Morrison hype... Haven't actually yet recovered of that...
- Doxa
I am afraid that my image of Morrison is deeply influenced by the depiction of Val Kilmer. I just couldn't stand the move. But in retrospect, it was all part of a need for vintage R&R stars -the Stones were touring Europe again, the Doors movie was out, I remember the Monterey movie with Hendrix and Joplin...there was a certain urge for '60's stars, and Morrison fitted right in, with his anti-Vietnam and anti-establishment attitude, which now in retrospect wasn't true at all.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-03 11:18 by Mathijs.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
wanderingspirit66
()
Date: January 3, 2011 00:22
Quote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
Sounds like you are not the biggest Jim Morrison fan on earth, Mathijs (and I agree with the poetry judgement)...
- Doxa
Well...as said, they made some good albums (actually, they wrote some good pop songs, had a fantastic keyboard player, but drums and guitar are always quite mediocre), and Morrison was a decent singer with a good voice. But I just can’t stand his fake stage persona, mostly fueled by alcohol abuse, and I can’t stand his fake intellectualism, with deep thoughts and musings that are either utter nonsense, or again fueled by alcohol. And his poetry is just on amateur level, nothing more, nothing less.
It’s not a popular view, I know that, as he is in the James Dean / JFK / Janis Joplin field of people who has become more famous and revered after they where dead. But that’s what he is to me.
Mathijs
My sentiments echoed exactly. Very good singer, very good voice. But overall the poetry had an explicit stated purpose of attempting to sound poetic. Morrison did succeed occasionally but to me the poetry is quite hollow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-03 00:23 by wanderingspirit66.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: January 3, 2011 03:38
I don't care about the 'poetry' or even the lyrics (to an extentent). I just enjoy the sound and vibe of their mudsic. Light My Fire, Break On Through, Love Me Two Times, Unknown Soldier, Peace Frog... the list is endless.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-03 03:39 by Big Al.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-03 03:39 by Big Al.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: January 3, 2011 03:54
Quote
Big Al
I don't care about the 'poetry' or even the lyrics (to an extentent). I just enjoy the sound and vibe of their mudsic. Light My Fire, Break On Through, Love Me Two Times, Unknown Soldier, Peace Frog... the list is endless.
Great quote BigAl it's about the feeling
__________________________
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
deadegad
()
Date: January 3, 2011 04:25
I actually like the Oliver Stone movie, for the most part anyway.
Yes the sound and vibe of their music is what I also enjoy.
Yes the sound and vibe of their music is what I also enjoy.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
SwayStones
()
Date: January 3, 2011 10:50
Quote
shortfatfanny
[I would be surprised if anyone seriously likes this crap movie...not to speak
about that this one could have led to any "break-through"...
I did
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
shortfatfanny
()
Date: January 3, 2011 13:23
Quote
SwayStonesQuote
shortfatfanny
[I would be surprised if anyone seriously likes this crap movie...not to speak
about that this one could have led to any "break-through"...
I did
You´re always surprising me,Sway...nevermind,I like it....
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
pbutler111
()
Date: April 28, 2016 19:24
Is 6 years too long to take to respond to someone's posts? Just stumbled across this place yesterday and saw a few kind words bout my book, Angels Dance and Angels Die, and about me, all of which were appreciated. I don't know if any of the people who said any of those things are still hanging around but, if you are -- thanks!
Patricia Butler
Patricia Butler
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: April 28, 2016 19:36
I think some are still here.
It's fun though to read all those comments back, thanks for 'bumping'
It's fun though to read all those comments back, thanks for 'bumping'
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
Title5Take1
()
Date: April 28, 2016 23:14
I read Angels Dance and Angels Die belatedly from the library and was surprised its new info hadn't come to my attention sooner. Glad I happened across it.
I just finished Love Him Madly by Judy Huddleston (a 2013 book but apparently sort of a reworking of an earlier book). Huddleston's affair with Jim is related largely in the form of minutiae, but if you're a big fan of someone (as I am of the Doors and Jim) such minutiae can be quite interesting.
I just finished Love Him Madly by Judy Huddleston (a 2013 book but apparently sort of a reworking of an earlier book). Huddleston's affair with Jim is related largely in the form of minutiae, but if you're a big fan of someone (as I am of the Doors and Jim) such minutiae can be quite interesting.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
slakka
()
Date: May 1, 2016 21:59
Quote
ghostryder13
no one here gets out alive is a great read but there's alot of fiction mixed with fact. as well as ray manzarek's book light my fire. ray has a very selective memory . john densmore's riders on the storm is more accurate and a better read.
Desmore said by the time of the first album release no one in the band was friends with Jim anymore.
Sniff Sniff
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
pbutler111
()
Date: May 4, 2016 05:48
Quote
Title5Take1
I read Angels Dance and Angels Die belatedly from the library and was surprised its new info hadn't come to my attention sooner. Glad I happened across it.
I just finished Love Him Madly by Judy Huddleston (a 2013 book but apparently sort of a reworking of an earlier book). Huddleston's affair with Jim is related largely in the form of minutiae, but if you're a big fan of someone (as I am of the Doors and Jim) such minutiae can be quite interesting.
Thanks. I was actually toying with the idea of putting together another book, 20 years on, incorporating the tons of interview material that didn't make it into the first book. I can't really decide if it's a great idea or a giant snooze.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
berlinjive
()
Date: May 17, 2016 00:54
being 57, I've heard the Doors music since they came out. Big with my older brothers and sisters and a big chunk of my party music '70's....
when it came out the O.Stone movie was/is the only film I've ever got up and walked out of.
Having a bit of time lately i did some research of my own. Going past the album material was amazing. Some themes are repetitive but I'm impressed Jim had never any music training nor been in bands before... if i understand correctly.
If that's true he was special. What a singer! Very solid and natural for an "un-musical" person. Good pitch. If even 10% of the drug stories are true well, anybody who can sing whole concerts (on acid, or downers etc.) hats off to 'em. He also came up with his own brand of stage schtick. Grabbing from here and there to make something wholly original. For me, only Iggy can touch him. Ig has more to say and is a better writer. Jim #1 filled notebooks obsessively while Jim #2 waited till the last minute by all accounts. While Iggy had a lust for life the first Jim cared more about art and ideas. And a lust for booze. Jim #2 by his own admission never let any one thing or person get too much of a hold on him. THATs not very rock'n'roll. But ironically Ig along with Lemmy are 2 of my favorite Rock poets/philosophers/journalists. Morrison had that Celtic mysticism going...easy to take the piss on that, but hey, i think there's something to that bullshit.
Morrison may have been a lot of things but he was no fake. He had skin in the game. and he put his $ where his mouth was. I think he put kids onto "new" ideas the same way Bowie would a few years later.
Separating words from melody from voice from song from performance from context in Rock music will do no one a favor. Its an art form that is quite flimsy... but we like it. Morrison is no poet, but he was a shaman of sorts and lived an artists life. He was true to himself and his ideals even if it wasn't nice.
I think i got the gist of his trip but will still check out the Densmore and Ray books.
Have a good one, Greetings from Berlin!
when it came out the O.Stone movie was/is the only film I've ever got up and walked out of.
Having a bit of time lately i did some research of my own. Going past the album material was amazing. Some themes are repetitive but I'm impressed Jim had never any music training nor been in bands before... if i understand correctly.
If that's true he was special. What a singer! Very solid and natural for an "un-musical" person. Good pitch. If even 10% of the drug stories are true well, anybody who can sing whole concerts (on acid, or downers etc.) hats off to 'em. He also came up with his own brand of stage schtick. Grabbing from here and there to make something wholly original. For me, only Iggy can touch him. Ig has more to say and is a better writer. Jim #1 filled notebooks obsessively while Jim #2 waited till the last minute by all accounts. While Iggy had a lust for life the first Jim cared more about art and ideas. And a lust for booze. Jim #2 by his own admission never let any one thing or person get too much of a hold on him. THATs not very rock'n'roll. But ironically Ig along with Lemmy are 2 of my favorite Rock poets/philosophers/journalists. Morrison had that Celtic mysticism going...easy to take the piss on that, but hey, i think there's something to that bullshit.
Morrison may have been a lot of things but he was no fake. He had skin in the game. and he put his $ where his mouth was. I think he put kids onto "new" ideas the same way Bowie would a few years later.
Separating words from melody from voice from song from performance from context in Rock music will do no one a favor. Its an art form that is quite flimsy... but we like it. Morrison is no poet, but he was a shaman of sorts and lived an artists life. He was true to himself and his ideals even if it wasn't nice.
I think i got the gist of his trip but will still check out the Densmore and Ray books.
Have a good one, Greetings from Berlin!
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
noughties
()
Date: May 17, 2016 16:09
I´ve understood there was a hunger for 60´s R&B once the 80s was over. I only dread what that led to. All the crap band of the 90s. It also seems that Finland was especially receptive to The Doors.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
dgodkin
()
Date: May 17, 2016 22:35
love the doors the were together for 4 yrs that's it, if your driving down the highway on a rainy foggy night what better music to be listening than brother jim and the doors.since Morrison has been gone now for over 40 yrs. why is it that every time I see a interview with david Crosby hes always talking shit on jim,
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
noughties
()
Date: May 18, 2016 03:14
I´ve read Sugarman`s "No One Here Gets..", Densmore`s "Riders On The Storm" and Manzarek`s "Light My Fire". I think Densmore`s is the best one. OK, this was the first I read after so many years of nothing, and my mind was on a constant high. It`s sober, and doesn`t idolize Morrison. If your`re still curious after this, Sugarman`s book is an OK read. Finally I read Manzarek`s bio. -A bit too enthusiastic for it`s own good. -Very dominated of his personal views.
The four members made a unique sound. There were no need for a guitar god instead of Robby. -No need for any John Bonham kind of drummer either. They were a perfect match for Jim`s voice, but without Jim, they were nothing.
The four members made a unique sound. There were no need for a guitar god instead of Robby. -No need for any John Bonham kind of drummer either. They were a perfect match for Jim`s voice, but without Jim, they were nothing.
Re: Best Jim Morrison biography
Posted by:
SwayStones
()
Date: May 18, 2016 18:42
Quote
pike bishop
Danny Sugerman"s one is quite good,so is his autobiography.
I agree
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