What I mean is: are there stories to be told about how those wonderful collections of studio out-takes, jams and rehearsals escaped from the "vaults" and got into the hands of the fans? Anybody know?

In the case of The Beatles - perhaps the first and greatest of all 'escaped' out-takes - it was a case of an entrusted Abbey Road employee John Barrett making cassette copies of hours and hours of material from reel to reel masters.
John knew he was dying of cancer and told friends he was doing it to provide cash for his family after his demise.
These tapes started surfacing in the early 80s and led to the incredible Sessions bootleg and Ultra Rare Trax series plus many others which eventually pushed the remaining Beatles to issue the Anthology series.

With the Stones there are rumours that Ronnie and even Keith have been responsible for issuing unreleased studio recordings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-13 21:00 by Silver Dagger.

Theft, mostly.

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Silver Dagger
In the case of The Beatles - perhaps the first and greatest of all 'escaped' out-takes - it was a case of an entrusted Abbey Road employee John Barrett making cassette copies of hours and hours of material from reel to reel masters.
John knew he was dying of cancer and told friends he was doing it to provide cash for his family after his demise.
These tapes started surfacing in the early 80s and led to the incredible Sessions bootleg and Ultra Rare Trax series plus many others which eventually pushed the remaining Beatles to issue the Anthology series.

With the Stones there are rumours that Ronnie and even Keith have been responsible for issuing unreleased studio recordings.

I did not know about John Barrett. Very interesting.

I do believe the Sessions album was compliled by EMI and was going to be officially released but was quashed by the Beatles. Even the bootleg sleeve was very official looking. Most of these tracks later emerged on Anthology.

i wait for urbansteel to upload them ... that's how I thought they got out!!

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Silver Dagger
In the case of The Beatles - perhaps the first and greatest of all 'escaped' out-takes - it was a case of an entrusted Abbey Road employee John Barrett making cassette copies of hours and hours of material from reel to reel masters.
John knew he was dying of cancer and told friends he was doing it to provide cash for his family after his demise.
These tapes started surfacing in the early 80s and led to the incredible Sessions bootleg and Ultra Rare Trax series plus many others which eventually pushed the remaining Beatles to issue the Anthology series.

With the Stones there are rumours that Ronnie and even Keith have been responsible for issuing unreleased studio recordings.

Ronnie was certainly responsible for circulating the first slew of Dirty Work outtakes that surfaced in early '87 - and his stepson was apparently responsible for the deluge of Voodoo Lounge outtakes that surfaced in the mid 90s.

The ABB alternate mixes sessions that came out a couple of years ago circulated via myself after I got them from a guy on a filesharing site (soulseek, to be precise). He'd just uploaded them and told me how he'd come across them - he worked at a storage facility in New York which shared the same computer that was used by the people at Sterling Sound who had mastered the album. He just happened to be browsing the computer and saw a file marked 'Rolling Stones' and made a copy of what was there.

He didnt actually realise that the recordings had never circulated. Unfortunately, they only exist in mp3 format because his hard drive crashed and he'd lost the original files - fortunately he had made mp3 copies.

The Steel Wheels outtakes that first circulated in summer 2006 came when a friend of the widow of a Stones roadie (I assume it was Chuch Magee) contacted us at Rocks Off to tell us he'd been given copies of some uncirculated studio recordings which he wanted to share with Stones fans - so the material was then uploaded to our bit torrent site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-13 21:22 by Gazza.

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Gazza

Quote
Silver Dagger
In the case of The Beatles - perhaps the first and greatest of all 'escaped' out-takes - it was a case of an entrusted Abbey Road employee John Barrett making cassette copies of hours and hours of material from reel to reel masters.
John knew he was dying of cancer and told friends he was doing it to provide cash for his family after his demise.
These tapes started surfacing in the early 80s and led to the incredible Sessions bootleg and Ultra Rare Trax series plus many others which eventually pushed the remaining Beatles to issue the Anthology series.

With the Stones there are rumours that Ronnie and even Keith have been responsible for issuing unreleased studio recordings.

Ronnie was certainly responsible for circulating the first slew of Dirty Work outtakes that surfaced in early '87 - and his stepson was apparently responsible for the deluge of Voodoo Lounge outtakes that surfaced in the mid 90s.

The ABB alternate mixes sessions that came out a couple of years ago circulated via myself after I got them from a guy on a filesharing site (soulseek, to be precise). He'd just uploaded them and told me how he'd come across them - he worked at a storage facility in New York which shared the same computer that was used by the people at Sterling Sound who had mastered the album. He just happened to be browsing the computer and saw a file marked 'Rolling Stones' and made a copy of what was there.

He didnt actually realise that the recordings had never circulated. Unfortunately, they only exist in mp3 format because his hard drive crashed and he'd lost the original files - fortunately he had made mp3 copies.

The Steel Wheels outtakes that first circulated in summer 2006 came when a friend of the widow of a Stones roadie (I assume it was Chuch Magee) contacted us at Rocks Off to tell us he'd been given copies of some uncirculated studio recordings which he wanted to share with Stones fans - so the material was then uploaded to our bit torrent site.

Gazza, do you know the story behind Ronnie releasing the Dirty Work stuff, and his stepson with the Voodoo Lounge stuff? Why and how they did it?

Well, the Ronnie story was a gift as far as I recall. I wouldnt think such a thing was unprecedented. I got the story from the guy I got the tape from in March '87 (I wont name him as he's still an occasional contributor here). Supposedly he got HIS copy from a collector in LA who had been given the tape by Ronnie himself.

I think it was Mathijs who mentioned here a couple of years ago that Jamie Wood was the source for the VL stuff. Whether or not money changed hands, I wouldnt know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-13 23:04 by Gazza.

How do out-takes get out?

Someone decides he's gonna take out them

Still waiting for the day for true "Bridges To Babylon" outtakes to leak out.

One can only hope.

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Gazza
Well, the Ronnie story was a gift as far as I recall. I wouldnt think such a thing was unprecedented. I got the story from the guy I got the tape from in March '87 (I wont name him as he's still an occasional contributor here). Supposedly he got HIS copy from a collector in LA who had been given the tape by Ronnie himself.

I think it was Mathijs who mentioned here a couple of years ago that Jamie Wood was the source for the VL stuff. Whether or not money changed hands, I wouldnt know.

Thanks Gazza. While it's rather interesting that someone from here might be involved, I'm not really interested in names to begin with (especially since I don't really "know" anyone from here, and likely never will). I just wanted to know why Ronnie would do it. It sounds like Ronnie gave them to an acquaintance, with no implied intent on his part of them going any further. That acquaintance then passed them further along.

So Ronnie wasn't passing out private stuff for the purpose of it being bootlegged, am I correct about that?

The stepson's case on the other hand seems a lot more questionable, like he was doing something the Stones didn't appreciate. I'm guessing he wasn't acting so innocently.

How do out-takes get out? doesn't matter as long as they get out

__________________________

Things have pretty much gone inta lock-down since the massive Voodoo leak .....



ROCKMAN

Is it possible that the band itself lets them out to keep interest in the band during lengthy periods between official studio albums and tours.

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Rockman
Things have pretty much gone inta lock-down since the massive Voodoo leak .....

True, but theres also a few other factors.

Firstly, theyve recorded very little since then. A couple of days in Tokyo in 1995, a couple of months in late 96/early'97, two weeks in Paris in 2002 and then the ABB sessions, most of which took place at remote locations such as Jagger's home. The Stones have spent no more than about 3-4 months recording in the last 15 years.

Secondly, the VL sessions were their most sustained periods of recording since the mid 80s - and there are lots of material from the Dirty Work sessions as well.

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whiskey
Is it possible that the band itself lets them out to keep interest in the band during lengthy periods between official studio albums and tours.

If they do, theyre doing a pretty lousy job of it!

True, but theres also a few other factors.

follow ya Gazza ...just meant except for maybe ABB alternate
mixes not a thing from Bridges or Bang has fell through the sieve



ROCKMAN

Know pretty much about live-boots but very little about out-takes (have a few from the Exile-period). Heard that Voodoo-Brew and -stew shuld be really good. Which are the out-takes worth having? Does an out-takes greatest hits-compilation exist outthere?

I love those Voodoo boots, mainly the songs that were seemingly on tap for being finished but possibly weren't - the keyboard tune with the harmonica in it, the jazzy one It's Funny and then the Keith songs, ESPECIALLY You Got It Made.

Damn that should have been on the album.

And of course the Keith and Ronnie babble! That is possibly the most excellent part about it.

Of course, Keith doing the New Faces overdub is better than the song and we get all those blues!

It was especially interesting hearing an unedited Love Is Strong and figuring out where they made the edit for the little instrumental break...and where the edits were for You Got Me Rocking - even the LP version leaving in a few measures of Charlie's ribbon falling off the snare...

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Gazza

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whiskey
Is it possible that the band itself lets them out to keep interest in the band during lengthy periods between official studio albums and tours.

If they do, theyre doing a pretty lousy job of it!

Guess ya ain't heard the EOMS outake OFFICIAL relaeases eh'?

Thefts. They have copies of the sessions at their homes. During the dirty work sessions, every morning, Bill left the studios with tapes, copy of the session of the night. Sometimes, Keith too. They used TDK SA tapes.

Out-takes CDs is mostly 'Scheisse' but Dylans Oh Mercy-outtages named Mercy on us is very very good. I'm looking for outtakes around my fav.records 'Tonights the Night' with Neil Young or 'Astral Weeks' by Van Morrison. Anybody have them?

2 1 2 0

my opinion is that i wouldn't doubt that the stones give copies of outtakes to bootleggers to keep record companies from releasing them as new material

The story indeed was that Wood’s stepson, and I believe also Jagger’s son, made copies of tapes during the sessions for VL in Ireland and tried to sell them to journalists and fans. Jagger supposedly was mad as hell. To add, Jagger’s son also was a great way to buy front seat tickets for sold out shows….

Other stories I know of are Jimmy Miller making tape copies of Stones sessions for friends when he was doing production work in London in the early 90’s. Some of these tapes where also sold at Sotheby’s in ’94 (or thereabout). This is how we get the Black Box and Time Trip series of boots, and most of the Exile outtakes.

The Some Girls to Tattoo You outtakes we have available where copied by someone’s whose name I can not name here, mainly for friends, but also for the Stones themselves. Wood and Richards used to listen to copies in their hotel rooms and where either left or stolen.

The Woodstock ’78 outtakes where stolen with a trick: some bootleggers managed to enter the rehearsal room to replace a tape recorded ordered by Ian Stewart, and left with all the recordings.

Most soundboard tapes of live shows where taped because the Stones wanted to listen back to shows in their hotel rooms. These tapes where left, stolen, and copied by and for the roadies. A known collector and friend of Richards has all the ’81 and ’82 shows in mono soundboard quality, and part of that (part of the ’81 tour) was released on boot some years ago.

And as Gazza says, many tapes where simply stolen by studio personnel and copied further for fans. The Black and Blue sessions available on boot where stolen from the Mobile truck in Rotterdam for example.

It is known that Jagger tries to control tapes from recordings. A known story was from Lester Butler from the Red Devils. He was asked to sign a copy of the session the Red Devils did with Jagger. He was totally surprised as Jagger walked out the room with the reels under his arm, after he made sure second copies where deleted.

Mathijs

On the subject of theft I've heard that the reason only half the Wembley 82 video is available is that it was literally stolen by an opportunist thief from the mixing console at the front of the stage.

The show was apparently shot on two videos - and the band has the other one. Judging by the performance of the one that got out we're not missing much!

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ghostryder13
my opinion is that i wouldn't doubt that the stones give copies of outtakes to bootleggers to keep record companies from releasing them as new material

The record companies wouldnt have the power to do that - and as most of the outtakes are little more than run-throughs at best, they'd hardly consider them release worthy anyway.

They arent going to give music to bootleggers who will make money out of the venture, just to spite a record label from doing the same.

How do out-takes get out?


They are aren taken out of the studio or the band members pockets. Its self-explaining.

It is funny though that there were DATs running the whole time getting everything. All of those skeletal versions of the songs are great. You get to hear what went on the LP without it being finished.

So somebody was able to get ahold of the DATs and transfer them to CD, not a hard thing to do by any means. What's funny is the packaging of those box sets.

just too long without gems

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"