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Tumblin_Dice_07
Anyway, back to the Strats.......question for Mathijs or anybody else that has expirience with these instruments.....have you played or owned a Fender American Vintage '57 Strat or a Classic Player '50's Strat? Anybody that has, any feedback would be appreciated.


One of those two will be the next Strat I buy, just haven't decided which one yet. They have the same pickups. The Classic Player 50's is made in Mexico and has a V-shape neck with a 9.5 radius. The American Vintage '57 Strat is obviously made in America and has the V-shaped neck with a 7.25 radius. Of course the American Vintage costs about twice as much.......anyway, like I said, anybody with any expirience with either instrument, please chime in.

Its difficult to state anything objectively about these guitars, as eveything is very personal. But, I do not have good experience with the '57 American Vintage Strat. I have ownded 2, played countless, and I have always thought they where generic at best. Most of the time fairly heavy body wood, thick poly finish with just a layer of nitro, farly skinny necks with not too pronounced V-necks, and too small frets for my taste. They sound excellent though, so it truly is a matter of taste. My main gripe has always been the price -they are just too expensive for what you're getting.

I liked the Classic Player much more, especially snce you're getting what you're paid for, meaning it is great value for the money. It's well made, I liked the neck and build quality, the pickups sound great (though I rewired it to vintage immediatly instead of the weird wiring that is stock), I liked the frets and playability. All in all it is just a great guitar, if you don't mind the poly finish. And I don't mind, as long as the finish is very thin. I even prefer satin poly on necks over nitro, as its smoother to play. I would replace the pots and bridge though over time, the guitar can improve greatly from that.

Mathijs

If only the Stones could hire thus guy for the next tour...
[www.youtube.com]

Imagine what Sympathy or CYHMK would sound like!










[Disclaimer : this is an ironic post]

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DandelionPowderman

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Amsterdamned

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DandelionPowderman
Amsterdamned:

<For starters, Vandeburg, Petrucci and van Halen are no shred players,they are fast Rockers.>

Eddie Van Halen is not a shred player??

He was one of the guys defining shred playing:

<GuitarPlayer.com's article "Blast Into Hyperspace With The Otherworldly Power Of Shred" reviews the book Shred! and states that the pioneers were "Eddie Van Halen, Al Di Meola, and Ritchie Blackmore; iconic ’80s players like Yngwie Malmsteen, Dave Mustaine, Marty Friedman, Kirk Hammett, Vernon Reid, Jason Becker, Steve Vai, Tony MacAlpine, Walter Giardino, George Lynch, and Randy Rhoads; and contemporary guitarists like Gaspar Muntwyler or Dimebag Darrell."

Yup,get your point. Shredders to me are players that go 240 KM an hour taking sharp edges,not just driving straight ahead.



It's not the amount of notes,but the story they tell at the same speed that makes the difference to me.There's a clip floating on youtube, van Halen jamming with Holdsworth.
If you can trace it, you know what I mean. I like van Halen btw,he's great.
Btw,Django was the pioneer to me. Try him..
.
The shred neck story seems garbage to me.
I'm curious about your opinion?

Ha ha, I "tried" Django 20 years ago His albums are still some of the dearest I possess. The rest of the "shreds" I generally steer clear of.

I'm not a very big fan of Eddie Van Halen, to put it mildly. He's got nothing to tell me. Still, he is regarded as one of the pioneers. Too bad what he pioneered, imo, started to ruin rock'n'roll and taste as far as guitar playing goes.

Ironically the term Shredding was invented for him.
To me he's still a fast rocker.

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Mathijs

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Tumblin_Dice_07
Anyway, back to the Strats.......question for Mathijs or anybody else that has expirience with these instruments.....have you played or owned a Fender American Vintage '57 Strat or a Classic Player '50's Strat? Anybody that has, any feedback would be appreciated.


One of those two will be the next Strat I buy, just haven't decided which one yet. They have the same pickups. The Classic Player 50's is made in Mexico and has a V-shape neck with a 9.5 radius. The American Vintage '57 Strat is obviously made in America and has the V-shaped neck with a 7.25 radius. Of course the American Vintage costs about twice as much.......anyway, like I said, anybody with any expirience with either instrument, please chime in.

Its difficult to state anything objectively about these guitars, as eveything is very personal. But, I do not have good experience with the '57 American Vintage Strat. I have ownded 2, played countless, and I have always thought they where generic at best. Most of the time fairly heavy body wood, thick poly finish with just a layer of nitro, farly skinny necks with not too pronounced V-necks, and too small frets for my taste. They sound excellent though, so it truly is a matter of taste. My main gripe has always been the price -they are just too expensive for what you're getting.

I liked the Classic Player much more, especially snce you're getting what you're paid for, meaning it is great value for the money. It's well made, I liked the neck and build quality, the pickups sound great (though I rewired it to vintage immediatly instead of the weird wiring that is stock), I liked the frets and playability. All in all it is just a great guitar, if you don't mind the poly finish. And I don't mind, as long as the finish is very thin. I even prefer satin poly on necks over nitro, as its smoother to play. I would replace the pots and bridge though over time, the guitar can improve greatly from that.

Mathijs

Cool. I'd like to be able to play them and compare them side by side but finding a shop nearby that has either in stock, much less, both has proven a tough task. But thanks alot for your input.

I have owned one Fender American Vintage '57 Strat and currently own a CIJ '57 Strat. Since I sold the American Strat to a friend I could A/B the two. The neck profile and radius (7.25) are the same and the weight on both was fairly lite. The control pots on the American Strat were better but swapping them out for audio tapers really helped. The stock pickups on the Japanese Strat are OK but I think I will swap them for Seymour Duncans at some point. The finish on the American Strat looked like nitro which I prefer but the Japanese Strat is finished in ploy whihc I don't like as much A Strat is a wonderfully versatile guitar and well designed. At first the 7.25 neck was hard to get to used to as I was used to Les Pauls but the once I did I really got into it.

Mathijs rightly points out the the American Strat is overpriced for what you get so I would recommend you play as many MIM or MIJ Strats as you can find, buy the one that feels good to you and then at the least replace the control pots. That way you get a good guitar for less money. My tuppence anyway. Good luck and let us know what you end up with!

The thicker the neck the better tone. More wood to resonate. To me the thickness of the neck n strats don't slow me down but the thicker neck seems to add mor bass and response to the guitar.

Go Dawgs!

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ChrisM
I have owned one Fender American Vintage '57 Strat and currently own a CIJ '57 Strat. Since I sold the American Strat to a friend I could A/B the two. The neck profile and radius (7.25) are the same and the weight on both was fairly lite. The control pots on the American Strat were better but swapping them out for audio tapers really helped. The stock pickups on the Japanese Strat are OK but I think I will swap them for Seymour Duncans at some point. The finish on the American Strat looked like nitro which I prefer but the Japanese Strat is finished in ploy whihc I don't like as much A Strat is a wonderfully versatile guitar and well designed. At first the 7.25 neck was hard to get to used to as I was used to Les Pauls but the once I did I really got into it.

Mathijs rightly points out the the American Strat is overpriced for what you get so I would recommend you play as many MIM or MIJ Strats as you can find, buy the one that feels good to you and then at the least replace the control pots. That way you get a good guitar for less money. My tuppence anyway. Good luck and let us know what you end up with!

Thanks for your input. I'm probably gonna go with the Classic Player 50's Strat. It has the same pickups as the American Vintage '57 Strat and costs half as much. When you speak of Japanese Strats, what are you speaking of? I've heard alot of people mention Japanese Strats and Teles. Was there a period of time when Fender had production in Japan?

Yes. Started in the eighties with the first of the Squiers. Other companies in Japan were making arguably better copies of classic Fenders than Fender USA were at the time. As far as I know, Fender still make guitars in Japan. The mid-eighties Japanese built Strats and Teles are now quite sought after.

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teleblaster
Yes. Started in the eighties with the first of the Squiers. Other companies in Japan were making arguably better copies of classic Fenders than Fender USA were at the time. As far as I know, Fender still make guitars in Japan. The mid-eighties Japanese built Strats and Teles are now quite sought after.

And Fenders are still made there. Fender Japan headquarters is near Ryougoku station in the Sumida district Tokyo. The are hard to find here but you can buy online from places like Ikebashii Music. I got a real cool '52 reissue Tele from them for under $500.00.

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ChrisM

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teleblaster
Yes. Started in the eighties with the first of the Squiers. Other companies in Japan were making arguably better copies of classic Fenders than Fender USA were at the time. As far as I know, Fender still make guitars in Japan. The mid-eighties Japanese built Strats and Teles are now quite sought after.

And Fenders are still made there. Fender Japan headquarters is near Ryougoku station in the Sumida district Tokyo. The are hard to find here but you can buy online from places like Ikebashii Music. I got a real cool '52 reissue Tele from them for under $500.00.

Wow.....I knew early Squier's were built in Japan but didn't know that Fender's were still made there. Do you feel that they're better than the Mexican made Fender's and how do they compare to the American made Fenders?

Depends who you talk with. Seriously, some swear by the Japanese models and some hate them! Generally speaking, the USA models have the best wood, finish and hardware, including pickups. They also cost a lot more than Mexican and Japanese models. Try before you buy would be the best advice - I've tried some Mexican Strats and Teles that were really nice - lovely, light and resonant and some USA models that were pretty uninspiring. I live in UK and see Japanese models on ebay all the time - new from Japan (and very tempting they look) and used models on sale locally. The bottom line is that they are all two bits of wood bolted together. Get one that feels comfortable and that you like the looks of (yes, that's important) and you're more than halfway there. I've usually been happy with stock pickups, but that's the most effective upgrade you can make if you feel your guitar's lacking in the "Oomph" department.

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teleblaster
Depends who you talk with. Seriously, some swear by the Japanese models and some hate them! Generally speaking, the USA models have the best wood, finish and hardware, including pickups. They also cost a lot more than Mexican and Japanese models. Try before you buy would be the best advice - I've tried some Mexican Strats and Teles that were really nice - lovely, light and resonant and some USA models that were pretty uninspiring. I live in UK and see Japanese models on ebay all the time - new from Japan (and very tempting they look) and used models on sale locally. The bottom line is that they are all two bits of wood bolted together. Get one that feels comfortable and that you like the looks of (yes, that's important) and you're more than halfway there. I've usually been happy with stock pickups, but that's the most effective upgrade you can make if you feel your guitar's lacking in the "Oomph" department.

Yeah I know all this. I'm not a beginner by any means, just unfamiliar with Japanese Fenders. But I do appreciate your input.

For about 10 years I played Mexican Fenders instead of Americans and Epiphones instead of Gibsons simply because I couldn't afford any better. In the last few years I've started trying to upgrade my gear. I put Gibson Burstbuckers in my Epi Les Paul, installed Vintage Noiseless pickups into a Mex Standard Strat, and replaced all my other guitars (except an Epi Firebird that will soon get a pickup upgrade) with an American Standard Strat, a Road Worn 50's Strat, an American Special Tele, and Gibson ES-335. I'm a Strat guy though and I'd like to have at least one more.....or two....or ten.....I'm sure you know how it is.

Oh I know how it is all right. I get regular bouts of GAS (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome). I don't NEED any more guitars, but still have to have them. I'm well covered in terms of electric and acoustic. Mainly use a Telecaster (currently a US52RI). Got a US standard Strat (but would like a pre-CBS styled one) and a Gibson faded double cut which is like a Les Paul Special with a cheap finish and is a great rock'n'roll guitar. Also got a PRS SE soapbar which I've used as back up to the Gibson. I play a lot of acoustic and currently alternate between a Martin D-18 and my old battle-scarred Gibson J-40 (had it for over 30 years). Got a little Martin picker, a resonator, a cheaper dread (for flying - I have a distrust of baggage handlers around acoustic guitars). Couple of mandolins, a banjo, harmonicas, etc...

Wait a minute. NO humbuckers at present...Mmmmmm...I think I feel a new guitar coming on.

Hint: when my partner asks how many guitars I've got / need, I ask how many SHOES she needs!

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teleblaster
Yes. Started in the eighties with the first of the Squiers. Other companies in Japan were making arguably better copies of classic Fenders than Fender USA were at the time. As far as I know, Fender still make guitars in Japan. The mid-eighties Japanese built Strats and Teles are now quite sought after.

+ 1

I still use my Squier Strat from the early eighties regularly. In fact, it's still the best guitar I own.

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teleblaster
Oh I know how it is all right. I get regular bouts of GAS (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome). I don't NEED any more guitars, but still have to have them. I'm well covered in terms of electric and acoustic. Mainly use a Telecaster (currently a US52RI). Got a US standard Strat (but would like a pre-CBS styled one) and a Gibson faded double cut which is like a Les Paul Special with a cheap finish and is a great rock'n'roll guitar. Also got a PRS SE soapbar which I've used as back up to the Gibson. I play a lot of acoustic and currently alternate between a Martin D-18 and my old battle-scarred Gibson J-40 (had it for over 30 years). Got a little Martin picker, a resonator, a cheaper dread (for flying - I have a distrust of baggage handlers around acoustic guitars). Couple of mandolins, a banjo, harmonicas, etc...

Wait a minute. NO humbuckers at present...Mmmmmm...I think I feel a new guitar coming on.

Hint: when my partner asks how many guitars I've got / need, I ask how many SHOES she needs!

Lots of nice gear man. I'm a lil jealous What kind of pickups in the Gibson doublecutaway? P90's? A double cutaway Les Paul Special...and/or Junior for that matter....is on my "One Day I Will Own One" list.

The only problem I have had with Japanese Fenders is that the control pots are not audio tapers so I end up swapping them out. Mind you I encountered this same problem on US made and expensive '58 reissue Gibson Les Paul. Inexplicable in my view to use anything but in audio applications...

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Tumblin_Dice_07

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teleblaster
Oh I know how it is all right. I get regular bouts of GAS (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome). I don't NEED any more guitars, but still have to have them. I'm well covered in terms of electric and acoustic. Mainly use a Telecaster (currently a US52RI). Got a US standard Strat (but would like a pre-CBS styled one) and a Gibson faded double cut which is like a Les Paul Special with a cheap finish and is a great rock'n'roll guitar. Also got a PRS SE soapbar which I've used as back up to the Gibson. I play a lot of acoustic and currently alternate between a Martin D-18 and my old battle-scarred Gibson J-40 (had it for over 30 years). Got a little Martin picker, a resonator, a cheaper dread (for flying - I have a distrust of baggage handlers around acoustic guitars). Couple of mandolins, a banjo, harmonicas, etc...

Wait a minute. NO humbuckers at present...Mmmmmm...I think I feel a new guitar coming on.

Hint: when my partner asks how many guitars I've got / need, I ask how many SHOES she needs!

Lots of nice gear man. I'm a lil jealous What kind of pickups in the Gibson doublecutaway? P90's? A double cutaway Les Paul Special...and/or Junior for that matter....is on my "One Day I Will Own One" list.

Yes, a pair of P-90s. For a Gibson, it was very cheap. I paid £400 new after trying out the seven of them that were in stock. That must have been about six years ago. No hard case, but a gig bag. Not the easiest guitar to find a good fitting case for, in fact (a Les Paul case is too deep). These guitars still crop up on ebay - watch out for the tune-o-matic bridge and stud tailpiece rather than the wraparound bridge on the originals and subsequent reissues - and remember not to pay over the odds This was a cost-cutting instrument in terms of finish ("faded / worn" - sort of like a light relic), but the woods and hardware are top notch and the neck is a dream to play. Oh, and it sounds GREAT.

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ChrisM
The only problem I have had with Japanese Fenders is that the control pots are not audio tapers so I end up swapping them out. Mind you I encountered this same problem on US made and expensive '58 reissue Gibson Les Paul. Inexplicable in my view to use anything but in audio applications...

I personally feel the wood and craftmanship on Japanese Fender instruments surpasses that of Mex and US Fender guitars, but the hardware isn't of the same quality. The pots, bridge and pickups all are fairly cheap, and upgrading does do wonders. But, there is a Japanese line of instruments with US hardware available for the Japanese market, easily ordered through internet.

Mathijs

Been playing a '56 Relic Strat. Incredible. Years and years I played only Strats; but I would just pull an affordable guitar off the rack, check that it stayed intune, hoped it was either sunburst or white, and had a strap. Always saw them as a tool. Then a couple years ago I completely went to Gibson and Gretsch; like big fat guitars with sustain and heavy sound.
I saw some clip a while back on youtube. a guy was doing a demo of maybe a song, or a stompbox...and he was playing a gorgeous Strat, an old one. Rarely had I heard such a beautiful sound; in every way.
I saved and sold and traded; and got that good Strat.
A very good friend of mine, much of a musician and guitar connoisseur swears by his Jazzmaster; I don't know much about them.

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Palace Revolution 2000
Been playing a '56 Relic Strat. Incredible. Years and years I played only Strats; but I would just pull an affordable guitar off the rack, check that it stayed intune, hoped it was either sunburst or white, and had a strap. Always saw them as a tool. Then a couple years ago I completely went to Gibson and Gretsch; like big fat guitars with sustain and heavy sound.
I saw some clip a while back on youtube. a guy was doing a demo of maybe a song, or a stompbox...and he was playing a gorgeous Strat, an old one. Rarely had I heard such a beautiful sound; in every way.
I saved and sold and traded; and got that good Strat.
A very good friend of mine, much of a musician and guitar connoisseur swears by his Jazzmaster; I don't know much about them.

Is the Strat a relic or a Closet Classic?

It's a Strat Relic. I am not sure what a Closet Classic is, TD07.

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Palace Revolution 2000
It's a Strat Relic. I am not sure what a Closet Classic is, TD07.

Fender has three different "stages" of those Time Machine series guitars.....one is the "relic" where it looks beat up, another is the Closet Classic, where it's supposed to look like it's been kept in a closet since '56 or whenever...and NOS..which stands for New Old Stock....meaning it's supposed to look like a guitar fresh from the factory with no wear.

Reason I ask is because I ran across a '56 Strat Relic in a store.....it was priced at around $2500. I didn't play it or closely inspect it but at first look, the relic job didn't look much different than the relic job's on the Road Worn series of guitars. I'd love to have one of those '56 Strats from the Time Machine Series but I think I would rather go for a Closet Classic or NOS than the Relic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-27 09:11 by Tumblin_Dice_07.

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Mathijs
the pickups sound great (though I rewired it to vintage immediatly instead of the weird wiring that is stock),

Mathijs

Mathijs, what do you mean about the wiring? What's the difference in "vintage" and the way the stock wiring?

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Tumblin_Dice_07

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Mathijs
the pickups sound great (though I rewired it to vintage immediatly instead of the weird wiring that is stock),

Mathijs

Mathijs, what do you mean about the wiring? What's the difference in "vintage" and the way the stock wiring?

The stock wiring on these guitars had the neck and bridge pickup combined in the fourth position, whereas standard is the middle and neck pickup combined in fourth position.

Mathijs

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Mathijs


The stock wiring on these guitars had the neck and bridge pickup combined in the fourth position, whereas standard is the middle and neck pickup combined in fourth position.

Mathijs

Wow........I don't understand why they would do that.

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Tumblin_Dice_07

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Palace Revolution 2000
It's a Strat Relic. I am not sure what a Closet Classic is, TD07.

Fender has three different "stages" of those Time Machine series guitars.....one is the "relic" where it looks beat up, another is the Closet Classic, where it's supposed to look like it's been kept in a closet since '56 or whenever...and NOS..which stands for New Old Stock....meaning it's supposed to look like a guitar fresh from the factory with no wear.

Reason I ask is because I ran across a '56 Strat Relic in a store.....it was priced at around $2500. I didn't play it or closely inspect it but at first look, the relic job didn't look much different than the relic job's on the Road Worn series of guitars. I'd love to have one of those '56 Strats from the Time Machine Series but I think I would rather go for a Closet Classic or NOS than the Relic.

TD, thanks for that lesson. I tell you: I love guitars; I sleep with them. But I have never been that good at checking and knowing about the technical aspects. I did not know that Fender's Time Machine line also had the Closet and NOS. Or at least I did not know that they were called that. Mine is the beat up one; the pre-beat up one. And I confess that is the only drawback; if I could have gotten it un-beat I would have. But it was the only one there, and I guess I assumed that was what I was getting that day.

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Tumblin_Dice_07

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Mathijs


The stock wiring on these guitars had the neck and bridge pickup combined in the fourth position, whereas standard is the middle and neck pickup combined in fourth position.

Mathijs

Wow........I don't understand why they would do that.

The vintage wiring gives you two out-of-phase sounds on the second and fourth position, and this new wiring gives you one OOP sound on the second, and one strong lead sound on the fourth position. According to Fender, the new wiring just offers more sound options.

Mathijs

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Palace Revolution 2000


TD, thanks for that lesson. I tell you: I love guitars; I sleep with them. But I have never been that good at checking and knowing about the technical aspects. I did not know that Fender's Time Machine line also had the Closet and NOS. Or at least I did not know that they were called that. Mine is the beat up one; the pre-beat up one. And I confess that is the only drawback; if I could have gotten it un-beat I would have. But it was the only one there, and I guess I assumed that was what I was getting that day.

Yeah thats me....I'd probably buy it if that was the only way I could get it. I have one of those Road Worn series guitars, the 50's Strat, and I would honestly rather have it without the relic job.

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Mathijs

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Tumblin_Dice_07

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Mathijs


The stock wiring on these guitars had the neck and bridge pickup combined in the fourth position, whereas standard is the middle and neck pickup combined in fourth position.

Mathijs

Wow........I don't understand why they would do that.

The vintage wiring gives you two out-of-phase sounds on the second and fourth position, and this new wiring gives you one OOP sound on the second, and one strong lead sound on the fourth position. According to Fender, the new wiring just offers more sound options.

Mathijs

I went ahead and ordered one of these guitars. According to two different stores that I talked to, Fender is way behind on all of the American Vintage series guitars. Something to do with the painting process. They told me all about it but I won't go into detail. Anyway, they said it would probably be late Feb. before I could get the '57 Strat RI so I went for the Classic Player instead. I don't care for the idea of the different wiring but the AV '57 Strat comes with a 3 way switch (the 5 way-switch kit is included) so I would have had to change it out anyway. I might as well buy a soldering gun and learn to use it.

Yeah that blows me away too, what Mathijs told us about the wiring. To stick that 'strong lead' sound in there, is IMO just another nail in the coffin towards ultimate Guitar Hero dictatorship. The two OOP settings lean towards the concept of subtlety; something sorely lacking in new rock.