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This is hopeless. Because I wasn't around in 1965 I cannot say that "Satisfaction" is better song as "Mixed Emotions"? Because I wasn't around in 1968 I cannot say that Jimi Hendrix is more significant guitar player as Y. Malmsteen? You try to reduce the music to its socio-political-cultural historical context with a strong and weakly justified premise that one cannot grasp anything if one does not have first-person direct knowledge. Go on, take that argumentative line and see what happens.
You haven't still answered my question.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-18 14:47 by Doxa.
I agree with that summary. That's part of what I'm trying to say.
The other part is this "collapse during the 80s myth" (The Stones collapsed artistically already with TSMR and IORR). The change in the 80s was simply a normal adaption to the times, no collapse.
Yes you can. You can also say that Mixed Emotions is better than Country Honk och Jig Saw Puzzle - if you think so. But this Collapse in 80s-model that very elegantly divides the Stones career into a first great part and the second Vegas part, it's so simplified that it lacks any explanative power at all. It does not match reality and I think you believe in it simply because you don't know what it was like back then.
Listening to Brussel Affair, Handsome Girls och Hampton 81 and looking at posters is not enough.
Doxa and Bärs, the way you two are going ... I can further suggest that when you enquire about this room, maybe ask about their weekly rate ?
[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]
Although I do agree with you Jeroen, I much more prefer the humorous approach
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
That will be great indeed
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 18, 2010 14:46
Quote
Bärs
About the quality:
You glorify again. They made a lot of poor music in the 60s and 70s and early 80s aswell, things that never mattered. What was different though is that the tops were higher in 64-73 than later, but the great 4 was made in just a few years and in 1971 their creative peak was over. What I don't understand is the anger because they can't reach that level again, which they have not been able to do for 40 years! (Yes, I know about SG but it's not in the same league when we talk about legacy.) I think that the results during the golden era was possible to achive only then, in that particular time and that social and cultural setting. Rock and pop music is so dependent on external factors like who you work with, who you are friends with, what is "hot", who's still alive, who's sleeping with who, who lives where etc. that these circumstances never can be recreated by willpower.
This is hopeless. Because I wasn't around in 1965 I cannot say that "Satisfaction" is better song as "Mixed Emotions"? Because I wasn't around in 1968 I cannot say that Jimi Hendrix is more significant guitar player as Y. Malmsteen? You try to reduce the music to its socio-political-cultural historical context with a strong and weakly justified premise that one cannot grasp anything if one does not have first-person direct knowledge. Go on, take that argumentative line and see what happens.
You haven't still answered my question.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-18 14:47 by Doxa.
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Bärs
()
Date: November 18, 2010 14:46
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think Bärs is saying that if we weren't there, we should be more careful with generalizing the different "eras" - that each of those periods of time had its ups and downs. In fact, so much that it's impossible to categorize them the way you do.
But I could be wrong...
And I don't necessarily disagree with you, either.
I agree with that summary. That's part of what I'm trying to say.
The other part is this "collapse during the 80s myth" (The Stones collapsed artistically already with TSMR and IORR). The change in the 80s was simply a normal adaption to the times, no collapse.
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: November 18, 2010 14:52
So who of you is Keith and who is Markus?
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Bärs
()
Date: November 18, 2010 15:07
Quote
DoxaQuote
Bärs
About the quality:
You glorify again. They made a lot of poor music in the 60s and 70s and early 80s aswell, things that never mattered. What was different though is that the tops were higher in 64-73 than later, but the great 4 was made in just a few years and in 1971 their creative peak was over. What I don't understand is the anger because they can't reach that level again, which they have not been able to do for 40 years! (Yes, I know about SG but it's not in the same league when we talk about legacy.) I think that the results during the golden era was possible to achive only then, in that particular time and that social and cultural setting. Rock and pop music is so dependent on external factors like who you work with, who you are friends with, what is "hot", who's still alive, who's sleeping with who, who lives where etc. that these circumstances never can be recreated by willpower.
This is hopeless. Because I wasn't around in 1965 I cannot say that "Satisfaction" is better song as "Mixed Emotions"?
Yes you can. You can also say that Mixed Emotions is better than Country Honk och Jig Saw Puzzle - if you think so. But this Collapse in 80s-model that very elegantly divides the Stones career into a first great part and the second Vegas part, it's so simplified that it lacks any explanative power at all. It does not match reality and I think you believe in it simply because you don't know what it was like back then.
Listening to Brussel Affair, Handsome Girls och Hampton 81 and looking at posters is not enough.
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Svartmer
()
Date: November 18, 2010 15:10
Bärs & Doxa, you´re lucky if you get out of this thread alive...
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Bärs
()
Date: November 18, 2010 15:34
Another possibilty is that Doxa simply WANTS to believe in the 80s-Collapse Hypothesis for some unknown reason. Then the question is: why?
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
paulywaul
()
Date: November 18, 2010 16:50
Quote
BeastQuote
paulywaulQuote
Rolling Hansie
Hey Doxa and Bärs, may I suggest the two of you get a room
Post of the week
Doxa and Bärs, the way you two are going ... I can further suggest that when you enquire about this room, maybe ask about their weekly rate ?
[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: November 18, 2010 17:00
is this terrible nonsense crap thred still going on??
jeroen
jeroen
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: November 18, 2010 17:05
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 18, 2010 17:07
Who's the bulldog? 
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-18 17:08 by DandelionPowderman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-18 17:08 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: November 18, 2010 17:57
Quote
corriecas
is this terrible nonsense crap thred still going on??
Although I do agree with you Jeroen, I much more prefer the humorous approach
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: November 18, 2010 18:32
Rolling Hansie,
i agree, sorry.
lets laugh when the Stones will hit the stage in 2011/2012?????
jeroen
i agree, sorry.
lets laugh when the Stones will hit the stage in 2011/2012?????
jeroen
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: November 18, 2010 18:47
Quote
corriecas
lets laugh when the Stones will hit the stage in 2011/2012
That will be great indeed
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Bärs
()
Date: November 18, 2010 19:00
If The Stones would have hit the road 1989 with a rough tour like 1978 with Mick running around playing drunk asking "Where's the balcony?", they would've been dead meat after the first show. Their adaption to a new level of professionality and sophistication was crucial for the survival in that socio-cultural environment. Thanks to that transformation we got Keith's finest moments as a guitarist on record, blending sublime acoustic playing with "heavy" influenced electric playing in the same show.
Thank God for the Las Vegas era.
Thank God for the Las Vegas era.
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
bernardandersonII
()
Date: November 18, 2010 19:28
i agree. i remember hearing some bootleg of a show from the 70s or maybe early 80s with mick saying something along the lines of "sorry we're late, we were up late @#$%& last night". he would NEVER say something like that now. part of it being he's grown up a bit, doesn't drink or do drugs as much, but also because these days the stones are a corporation run by a bunch of suits who care about nothing but $$$. hell, wasn't the verse from Some Girls about black girls wanting to get @#$%& all night not even sung in Shine A Light? or was it edited out? either way, it was pretty disappointing and not very "rock and roll".Quote
Bärs
If The Stones would have hit the road 1989 with a rough tour like 1978 with Mick running around playing drunk asking "Where's the balcony?", they would've been dead meat after the first show. Their adaption to a new level of professionality and sophistication was crucial for the survival in that socio-cultural environment.
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
Bärs
()
Date: November 18, 2010 20:15
Yes, of course it would be funnier if he would stick to the original lyrics. But singing about black women as slaves and sluts is not acceptable today, and they have to adapt. Either do that or disband. (Remember that they censored their lyrics already in the 60s.) Appearantly some would have liked them to disband instead of adapting to the socio-cultural environment of the 80s, but The Stones themselves had other visions. Their commitment to their band shows that playing their songs live is exactly what they want to do with their lives. We should be greatful for that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-18 20:17 by Bärs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-18 20:17 by Bärs.
Re: Keith kicks out Swedish journalist Markus Larsson
Posted by:
bart-man
()
Date: November 19, 2010 23:01
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