Brian was Curly, Mick Taylor, Shemp -- which makes Woody...Joe?

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Wry Cooter
Brian was Curly, Mick Taylor, Shemp -- which makes Woody...Joe?

Larry, of course.

Per 71Tele: Have you seen him in Rock & Roll Circus? He was completely out of it and probably not even plugged into the mix most of the time. He does rally for No Expectations, but half the time I think that's an overdub. Whether he could still play or not, he was not functioning with the group anymore, as one can clearly see in that film (which was his last performance with the Stones).[/quote]

Also, he doesn't seem to know when to stop on No Expectations. He's going to keep playing his solo after it's done. Brian had to be one of the most exasperating individuals to deal with. He seems to be fine, running around, having fun at the Rock and Roll circus. Then he gets up there with the group and he's a zombie. Maybe he got loaded before their performance to deal with his anxiety, or he was being passive aggressive. That same passive aggressiveness was exhibited by his non-appearance at studio dates, but he wouldn't leave the group on his own. They appear to have done him a favor by cutting him loose. What a strange guy. They knew he could contribute, see No Expectations, but he wouldn't straighten up enough to concentrate. He alienated everyone in the group by the end. George Harrison can say that he just needed a little more love, but he didn't have to deal with the guy. At least George's rhythm guitarist got down to business, even if you had to put up with his Japanese wife.

It would be interesting to know if Brian's problems were actual mental unbalance, a personality disorder, of if he was just an a-hole.

She's so complicated.......................

>At least George's rhythm guitarist got down to business, even if you had to put up with his Japanese wife.


If you had anything interesting to say before this it was overshadowed by your charmless xenophobia.

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24FPS
At least George's rhythm guitarist got down to business, even if you had to put up with his Japanese wife.

That rhythm guitarist "got down to business" except when there was a George Harrison song to work on, when he would usually inexplicably absent himself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-05 17:24 by 71Tele.

The Kansas City concert with Mick "Overrated" Taylor from 1982 happened in 1981.

So, you went to see the Stones in '76 and thought they sounded like a Stones cover band with a struggling lead guitarist....

I can only surmise that you then believe that the Stones peaked during the MT years and that everything else has been hit and miss, never living up to what you consider to be the best years of the band.

I will tell you that the reason the Stones were great in '72/'73 was more because of Mick and Keith than MT. I will tell you that the Stones were every bit as great, in '75,'76, '78' and '81 and you will disagree with me. I will tell you that the Rolling Stones never sound like a Rolling Stones cover band and that they have played hundreds of amazing shows since '89. And, you will still tell me that unless they sound like they did with MT, they are simply not as good.

And I will question your love of the Rolling Stones and you will scoff, and I will ask you why you scoff and you will tell me because you loved them when MT was in the band and they haven't sounded nearly as good to you since he quit 36 years ago.

Hmmm.

Yes, i believe Brian was certainly very difficult to work with. Even in the very early days there were occasions where the rest of the Stones had to perform concerts without him for whatever reason. He was very hard to work out as he was an incredibly complexed character, but i believe Mick and Keith's dominance in what he perceived to be his group, also played a large factor. Brian may not have been the lead singer, but in the Stones early days, he was a striking presence, and in live performances it was natural for the audience's eyes to gravitate towards Brian because of his striking blond hair, and his meticulous sense of style. The fact Mick and Keith took over his band, and became the chief songwiriters must have hurt incredibly. I believe Brian was incredibly sensitive, and not altogether in the best of health. He suffered from asthma badly at times too, and if you believe some, he was bordering on schizophrenia. The 'Rock 'N' Roll Circus' footage shows Brian almost unrecognisable to how he appeared just a year before, he seems so out of it. I love his wonderful slide guitar playing on 'No Expectations' off 'Beggars Banquet' because it appears so beautifully sensitive and fragile. Even Mick Taylor with all his technical ability, would have a hard task in trying to better it, at least from it existing from a genuine emotion standpoint. It was Brian's last important contribution to a Stones album, and it was utterly brilliant. It was pleasing he managed to hold it together long enough to deliver the goods. However, the rest of 'Beggars Banquet' in the main belonged to Keith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-05 09:05 by Edward Twining.

Well, not only you Edward and me and many others were charmed by "No Expectations" (and BEGGARS BANQUET over-all):






Another, recent version, better sound... I feel almost sentimental in wittnessing Taylor playing so heartfully a 'Brian Jones' tune... I thought the intro is a mistake but he seemingly goes out of tune with purpose (but don't see why...)... the version sounds like a Dylan song, actually. And in fact, the band ends up sounding like a Taylor era Stones!...a great interpretation! Wow!





- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-05 09:52 by Doxa.

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saulsurvivor
The Kansas City concert with Mick "Overrated" Taylor from 1982 happened in 1981.

So, you went to see the Stones in '76 and thought they sounded like a Stones cover band with a struggling lead guitarist....

I can only surmise that you then believe that the Stones peaked during the MT years and that everything else has been hit and miss, never living up to what you consider to be the best years of the band.

I will tell you that the reason the Stones were great in '72/'73 was more because of Mick and Keith than MT. I will tell you that the Stones were every bit as great, in '75,'76, '78' and '81 and you will disagree with me. I will tell you that the Rolling Stones never sound like a Rolling Stones cover band and that they have played hundreds of amazing shows since '89. And, you will still tell me that unless they sound like they did with MT, they are simply not as good.

And I will question your love of the Rolling Stones and you will scoff, and I will ask you why you scoff and you will tell me because you loved them when MT was in the band and they haven't sounded nearly as good to you since he quit 36 years ago.

Hmmm.

.. . u should definetly get out of the house.more often. do you have an ipod? download dance little sister. come on let me see that smile. come on big guy. lets see it...dont cover your...OH THERE IT IS!!! beautiful!! time to turn a frown upside down! . . . . . ur rokkin now aincha mr. gwouchy?!

<True, and Taylor always accused by haters here of not being able to play rhythm. Rubbish.><71tele>

People are a bit jealous I think.He was a great rhythm player too.
He did his thing on talent,no booth licker.
He just walked away.
I loved the guys playing.
So did the rest of the Stones.
He gave the Stones a boost no other musician did or will ever do.
No "pundit" on this board can talk that away,no matter how humiliating or erudit they try to be
to people that recognize Taylors contribution,both on stage as well as in the studio.

Shit happens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-05 11:35 by Amsterdamned.

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saulsurvivor
The Kansas City concert with Mick "Overrated" Taylor from 1982 happened in 1981.

So, you went to see the Stones in '76 and thought they sounded like a Stones cover band with a struggling lead guitarist....

I can only surmise that you then believe that the Stones peaked during the MT years and that everything else has been hit and miss, never living up to what you consider to be the best years of the band.

I will tell you that the reason the Stones were great in '72/'73 was more because of Mick and Keith than MT. I will tell you that the Stones were every bit as great, in '75,'76, '78' and '81 and you will disagree with me. I will tell you that the Rolling Stones never sound like a Rolling Stones cover band and that they have played hundreds of amazing shows since '89. And, you will still tell me that unless they sound like they did with MT, they are simply not as good.

And I will question your love of the Rolling Stones and you will scoff, and I will ask you why you scoff and you will tell me because you loved them when MT was in the band and they haven't sounded nearly as good to you since he quit 36 years ago.

Hmmm.

Indeed, 'Kansas' with Mick Melody Taylor happened in 81. I know. Just a typo and corrected. Are you suggesting that I'm not a 'true' Rolling Stones fan? Well, I've got a mind of my own, to quote a line from MM. Live the RS reached their absolute peak with Taylor. The legendary 69 - 73 tours do prove that indisputably. Was that by coincidence or because of Mick M. T's contribution? Of course the latter. As for studio albums for me all albums from Aftermath on up to and including GHS are masterpieces. And no, I don't have a love relationship with The Rolling Stones. Not even with Mozart. And yes, I do have all their official (live and studio) albums without Mick M. Taylor.

Never mind, Tele 71. Listen instead those Taylor clips I posted, especially the second one. It is always something magical in the air when Taylor plays a Stones tune. There is a kind of special connection behind the surface. Once a Rolling Stone, always a Rolling Stone.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-05 17:42 by Doxa.

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Doxa
Never mind, Tele 71. Listen instead those Taylor clips I posted, especially the second one. It is always something magical in the air when Taylor plays a Stones tune. There is a kind of special connection behind the surface. Once a Rolling Stone, always a Rolling Stone.

- Doxa

Will do, Doxa! Always appreciate reading your well-argued posts, by the way.

IM Brian Jones

Two other versions of No Expectations. The first one by The Rolling Stones, LA January 18, 1973, the second (acoustic) one a rehearsal version by Mick Taylor and Erwin Nijhoff, taped by a Dutch radio station.

1)




2) From 1.38 until 5.20






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-05 20:06 by kleermaker.

To not to forget the 'original' hero here...





and another great sample of Brian's sensitive touch from the same period ...





- Doxa

Talk, talk, talk all day, nobody, but nobody, played a more emotional slide than Brian. Taylor was a gymnast, Brian was in another dimension.

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24FPS
Talk, talk, talk all day, nobody, but nobody, played a more emotional slide than Brian. Taylor was a gymnast, Brian was in another dimension.

I think describing Taylor as a "gymnast" does not do his emotive playing justice, but I would agree that each of these players brought something special to the mix. They are so different, I rather dislike comparing them.

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71Tele

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24FPS
Talk, talk, talk all day, nobody, but nobody, played a more emotional slide than Brian. Taylor was a gymnast, Brian was in another dimension.

I think describing Taylor as a "gymnast" does not do his emotive playing justice, but I would agree that each of these players brought something special to the mix. They are so different, I rather dislike comparing them.

Personally I love the acoustic version, even though it's only a rehearsal. But it's very well played. Yes, "emotive playing" is a good qualification for both Brian and Mick. This is what they had in common: both exceptional musicians and Rolling Stones.

Yes, Doxa, thanks for those clips. I think 'Beggars Banquet' may very well be the favourite album of both Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor, and i find it very hard to argue with that opinion, with perhaps possibly only 'Exile On Main Street' proving a true rival. I don't think any of those later versions really rival the original version of 'No Expectations' from 'Beggars Banquet', although they all possess their own individual charms. Mick Taylor's forte is always going to be his quitar playing, for sure, and there is rarely a time that i hear him playing when i don't feel moved to a degree, Mick has that wonderful quality in his playing, even today. Of course, Brian Jones was a different type of guitar player to Mick, less of a virtuoso perhaps, although he was also capable of the ability to move the listener, under the right circumstances, and when he felt fully committed in his playing. Maybe it is true that Keith's relationship with Brian musically was closer to that of his relationship with Ronnie, than it ever was with Mick Taylor, when the roles became more pronounced. However, Brian also proved to be a highly impressive multi instrumentalist, certainly after entering the 66 period (as well as in the early days having on occasions the role of harmonica player). Really, Brian offered an abundance of talent, where often diverse options were always open to the Stones. I think the beauty of 'Aftermath' is that the Stones didn't take the most obvious route within many of the songs arrangements, where being a little different was something to aspire to. Perhaps, to a degree, that is also a reflection of the attitude of that time generally, when almost anything within popular music was deemed possible (not that the Stones went quite that far, mind). Certainly, in retrospect, Brian appears to have been the right man at the right time with his varied musical ambitions, just like Mick Taylor would later prove to be, when the Stones decided to follow a more blues/rock route. Both Brian Jones and Mick Taylor in musical terms, reflected the times perfectly.

I've never understood why people argue and quibble on these kinds of sites. It's just our opinions and everybody has one. Yes, It's Only Rock and Roll. I like Brian (personal preference) and I like Mick Taylor (when he was on he took the band to its zenith), but I'm not going to fight anyone over it. The arguing and accusations take the fun out of it. Who cares if someone has a zillion identities(if that's even true)? No one wins or loses on these sites, just a great exchange of information and ideas. Great photos, rare videos and obscure tracks. Sounds good to me.

By the way, George Harrison evolved into my second favorite 'emotive' slide player. I believe he picked it up from Brian? No? Oh well, two misunderstood Pisces geniuses playing through their souls. Anybody want to argue? I'll knock you out.

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24FPS
I've never understood why people argue and quibble on these kinds of sites. It's just our opinions and everybody has one. Yes, It's Only Rock and Roll. I like Brian (personal preference) and I like Mick Taylor (when he was on he took the band to its zenith), but I'm not going to fight anyone over it. The arguing and accusations take the fun out of it. Who cares if someone has a zillion identities(if that's even true)? No one wins or loses on these sites, just a great exchange of information and ideas. Great photos, rare videos and obscure tracks. Sounds good to me.

By the way, George Harrison evolved into my second favorite 'emotive' slide player. I believe he picked it up from Brian? No? Oh well, two misunderstood Pisces geniuses playing through their souls. Anybody want to argue? I'll knock you out.

The sad fact of the matter is that as long as there are males on the planet there will always be wars.

Quote
24FPS
Talk, talk, talk all day, nobody, but nobody, played a more emotional slide than Brian. Taylor was a gymnast, Brian was in another dimension.

You can say that.

.......women only cause love wars .....



ROCKMAN

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
saulsurvivor
The Kansas City concert with Mick "Overrated" Taylor from 1982 happened in 1981.

So, you went to see the Stones in '76 and thought they sounded like a Stones cover band with a struggling lead guitarist....

I can only surmise that you then believe that the Stones peaked during the MT years and that everything else has been hit and miss, never living up to what you consider to be the best years of the band.

I will tell you that the reason the Stones were great in '72/'73 was more because of Mick and Keith than MT. I will tell you that the Stones were every bit as great, in '75,'76, '78' and '81 and you will disagree with me. I will tell you that the Rolling Stones never sound like a Rolling Stones cover band and that they have played hundreds of amazing shows since '89. And, you will still tell me that unless they sound like they did with MT, they are simply not as good.

And I will question your love of the Rolling Stones and you will scoff, and I will ask you why you scoff and you will tell me because you loved them when MT was in the band and they haven't sounded nearly as good to you since he quit 36 years ago.

Hmmm.

Indeed, 'Kansas' with Mick Melody Taylor happened in 81. I know. Just a typo and corrected. Are you suggesting that I'm not a 'true' Rolling Stones fan? Well, I've got a mind of my own, to quote a line from MM. Live the RS reached their absolute peak with Taylor. The legendary 69 - 73 tours do prove that indisputably. Was that by coincidence or because of Mick M. T's contribution? Of course the latter. As for studio albums for me all albums from Aftermath on up to and including GHS are masterpieces. And no, I don't have a love relationship with The Rolling Stones. Not even with Mozart. And yes, I do have all their official (live and studio) albums without Mick M. Taylor.

Jeezzz...Does your wife know about this? I mean, do you masturbate when thinking about Taylor?

Mathijs

i know i do. silver train is runnin oh yeah

I think we all need to shut up and get Howling Wolf on stage!

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NoBozos
I think we all need to shut up and get Howling Wolf on stage!

Finally, the voice of reason. There is NEVER a bad time for the Wolf.

I wonder if this was the first time Howlin' Wolf appeared on national TV in America? I don't remember seeing Muddy Waters or any of the Blues giants on American television in the 1960s. Thank you, Brian Jones.

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Mathijs

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kleermaker

Quote
saulsurvivor
The Kansas City concert with Mick "Overrated" Taylor from 1982 happened in 1981.

So, you went to see the Stones in '76 and thought they sounded like a Stones cover band with a struggling lead guitarist....

I can only surmise that you then believe that the Stones peaked during the MT years and that everything else has been hit and miss, never living up to what you consider to be the best years of the band.

I will tell you that the reason the Stones were great in '72/'73 was more because of Mick and Keith than MT. I will tell you that the Stones were every bit as great, in '75,'76, '78' and '81 and you will disagree with me. I will tell you that the Rolling Stones never sound like a Rolling Stones cover band and that they have played hundreds of amazing shows since '89. And, you will still tell me that unless they sound like they did with MT, they are simply not as good.

And I will question your love of the Rolling Stones and you will scoff, and I will ask you why you scoff and you will tell me because you loved them when MT was in the band and they haven't sounded nearly as good to you since he quit 36 years ago.

Hmmm.

Indeed, 'Kansas' with Mick Melody Taylor happened in 81. I know. Just a typo and corrected. Are you suggesting that I'm not a 'true' Rolling Stones fan? Well, I've got a mind of my own, to quote a line from MM. Live the RS reached their absolute peak with Taylor. The legendary 69 - 73 tours do prove that indisputably. Was that by coincidence or because of Mick M. T's contribution? Of course the latter. As for studio albums for me all albums from Aftermath on up to and including GHS are masterpieces. And no, I don't have a love relationship with The Rolling Stones. Not even with Mozart. And yes, I do have all their official (live and studio) albums without Mick M. Taylor.

Jeezzz...Does your wife know about this? I mean, do you masturbate when thinking about Taylor?

Mathijs

<Jeezzz...Does your wife know about this? I mean, do you masturbate when thinking about Taylor?

Mathijs>

Well...according to Tony Sanchez, Mick Taylor & Mick Jagger where caught in bed together
by Taylor's former wife, Rose Millar. She was not amused .

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Amsterdamned
Well...according to Tony Sanchez, Mick Taylor & Mick Jagger where caught in bed together by Taylor's former wife, Rose Millar. She was not amused .

Thanks for showing your sense of humor again Amsterdamned. What a relief to this thread

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Keep On Rolling