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Re: Scarlet
Posted by: rbk ()
Date: August 7, 2020 16:43

Quote
FoolToCry
The acustic guitar sounds like a Mick overdub from 2020....

...as does the vocal. You can hear a bit of 1974 Mick underneath.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: August 7, 2020 17:02

100% of Mick's vocals are from 2020, Keith's backing vocals are from 1974, which were the original and only vocals in the song back then.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: exhpart ()
Date: August 7, 2020 17:51

Quote
Rip This
My ONLY criticism of the Paul Mescal video for Scarlet is that he didn't strip down to show us some more of...him....he's a hottie.

Sexist. Can we watch the girl in Criss Cross Man again now?

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: johnypar ()
Date: August 7, 2020 17:54

"
just don't get why there is "featuring paul Mescal" in the official title of the video? he contributed also the music besides video acting? I suppose not

find it funny, like the stones are doing the promo for the young actor.
and we didn't get featuring Guindilla Ontanaya for Criss Cross (would be highly appreciated thoughspinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: August 7, 2020 17:58

Quote
georgelicks
100% of Mick's vocals are from 2020, Keith's backing vocals are from 1974, which were the original and only vocals in the song back then.

Thanks georgelicks..
I like the first cut best.. the rawness of Mick's vocals mixed w Keith's '74 backing vocals really works well in capturing the sound of the era.
Nice to have the cleaned up single version though.. also very well done.

Mick mentioned that he was finishing up some vocals on some other songs from their partially completed new album..
Perhaps they'll drop a couple of these while we continue to wait for the finished product. Will be interesting to see.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: August 7, 2020 18:35

Quote
exhpart
Quote
Rip This
My ONLY criticism of the Paul Mescal video for Scarlet is that he didn't strip down to show us some more of...him....he's a hottie.

Sexist. Can we watch the girl in Criss Cross Man again now?

GUILTY!...rofl....

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: rebelrebel ()
Date: August 7, 2020 18:50

Quote
Christiaan
Capture of the interview. Not great, sorry if there are some pop-ups and hickups

[youtu.be]

Many thanks for posting - couldn't find it elsewhere. Nice little chat though it seems to end abruptly.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 7, 2020 19:47

Quote
georgelicks
100% of Mick's vocals are from 2020, Keith's backing vocals are from 1974, which were the original and only vocals in the song back then.

Again, it would be really cool to hear the original version sans Mick's 2020 vocals, and that's not a bash at Mick. Keith on lead vocals w/Jimmy Page and some other excellent musicians...talk about a supergroup.
As Mick said "It wasn't really a Rolling Stones record..." and he doesn't remember much about it other than he might have been there at some point in '74, so chances are it was never intended as a Stones song...until now.
I do recall reading about this tune in the past though as if it was some long lost gem, but whether it was in the context of a lost Stones song or a lost Keith demo w/Page, can't recall. When the new version was recently released, there were questions regarding Mick's vocals and if some of them were from '74 (leading some to believe it was an actual Stones demo), yet now we know all of Micks vocals are brand new and as he said "It wasn't really a Rolling Stones record...". So evidently now it is, but still have a hard time considering it a Stones tune with all of the oddball history. At least Plundered (for example), prior to it's new vocals and overdubs, was always an outtake from the Stones themselves c. Exile era w/most (all?) band members involved, and the same goes for some of the other tunes that were doctored up for other Deluxe reissues (Some Girls), as well as some of the tunes on Tattoo You. But aside from the finished tune itself, it has an interesting story at least, and it's been kind of interesting to see them (Mick) pull out all the stops to promote it. Hopefully they'll have the same type of energy and focus on the promotion aspect if and when they ever finish a new album...

So now Mick says he's working on new material (again) and supposedly finishing up songs for the new album, yet just a few weeks ago he said:

“We have got to get together and do a couple more sessions, I think.
We are not really going to get together right now". TalkTalk

Sounds "promising", and based on the timeline thus far, they'll have it ready by 2025.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 7, 2020 20:20

Both videos (Scarlet and Criss Cross) are made by ad agencies. Maybe Jagger have approved a synopsis. Maybe not. Ad agencies always target younger people. After 45 you don't exist in their world.
They chose a female pin-up for the first video and a male for the second (Scarlet). From a marketing standpoint the second choice was wise. An actor who's "hot" for the moment
(even though he is probably unknown for people over 45 [but they do not count] and in the USA). And female (where a man is the sex object) sexism is not politically incorrect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-07 20:23 by Stoneage.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: August 7, 2020 20:25

Keith brings a track to Mick, who finishes it 35 years later.
Gee, and Keith is said to take forever!

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: August 7, 2020 20:56

Quote
Four Stone Walls
Quote
Chris Fountain
Quote
Four Stone Walls
Many different versions but still the interesting thing for me is it's genesis.

Listened again to first version again and again am really convinced it's a Ronnie song. All his hallmarks. And his style of his first album. A definite Faces feel to it. Loose. I strongly suspect that Keith and he messed about on this and that the lead parts were originally his. The drumming is like Newmark would do.

Keith with downtime in October '74 pulled in some players to lay it down. No Woody, so Page. No Newmark and Weeks either.

Mick ' where's the Party's Jagger might have been there in '73 or '74 when it being attempted first. But Keith was the house, basement, live-in band mate. Was there an original tape that Keith had access to in late '74?


No offense. To be honest it doesn't remind me of a solely Ron Wood riff. Thanks for the comments but I don't hear Ms Judy's Farm, Stay With Me, Angel, or even I can Feel the fire in this song.

All said, it is really a hodge -podge of any or everything crossing Led Zepplin notable riffs along with the Stones".

None taken. I was thinking of his style on his girl um. But also like tunes called Tell Everyone, but anyway the loos and relaxed style.

Cheers.

No offense, I agree, it sounds really like a Ron Wood song to me as well. Especially the intro riffs.

Re: Scarlet
Date: August 7, 2020 21:09

Quote
Stoneage
Both videos (Scarlet and Criss Cross) are made by ad agencies. Maybe Jagger have approved a synopsis. Maybe not. Ad agencies always target younger people. After 45 you don't exist in their world.
They chose a female pin-up for the first video and a male for the second (Scarlet). From a marketing standpoint the second choice was wise. An actor who's "hot" for the moment
(even though he is probably unknown for people over 45 [but they do not count] and in the USA). And female (where a man is the sex object) sexism is not politically incorrect.

He's not unknown for people over 45. Are you joking? Haven't you seen Normal People? smiling smiley

Criss Cross was made by an artist, not an ad agency.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 7, 2020 21:14

Fair enough, an artist who makes ads for ad agencies. Actually, I haven't seen "Normal People".

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: donvis ()
Date: August 7, 2020 21:16

I thought that was a horrible video compared to crisscross

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: August 7, 2020 23:18

Quote
Stoneage
Both videos (Scarlet and Criss Cross) are made by ad agencies. Maybe Jagger have approved a synopsis. Maybe not. Ad agencies always target younger people. After 45 you don't exist in their world.
They chose a female pin-up for the first video and a male for the second (Scarlet). From a marketing standpoint the second choice was wise. An actor who's "hot" for the moment
(even though he is probably unknown for people over 45 [but they do not count] and in the USA). And female (where a man is the sex object) sexism is not politically incorrect.

you are probably right for scarlet, criss cross video looks a bit different: 1) there is a director, diana kunst, young but already with some other off the track videos for rosalia and others, also for madonna, 2) the video is made of material shoot by her that is as old as 2015 and she describes it as a kind of "video diary" of her model friend, the spanish model,
so the production of the 2 videos seems very different as criss ross looks much more as an artistic project taken up by the stones for promotion while the scarlet one looks much more as a typical adv as you describe.

to dandy: yes I for sure am off das zeitgeist grinning smiley smileys with beer



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-07 23:59 by maumau.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: glimmertwin1 ()
Date: August 7, 2020 23:40

+1

The Rolling Stones - Criss Cross (Dir. Cut) on Vimeo:

[vimeo.com]

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 8, 2020 01:16

Okey, videos aside (they are just promotion tools). I would rank Scarlet first among the three new songs before Criss Cross and Living in a Ghost Town.
Sure, it's outtake material but it has a good hook. And almost anything from that period is better than the post 83 era.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: August 8, 2020 02:16

Quote
donvis
I thought that was a horrible video compared to crisscross

Horrible, not impressed by the actor. Reminded me of a poor Tom Cruise impression from Risky Business

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: August 8, 2020 04:29

I'm guessing you are closing in on 60?....cause the video went over your head....

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: August 8, 2020 07:27

Quote
Rip This
I'm guessing you are closing in on 60?....cause the video went over your head....

Haha spot on(+1). Watching the video I don’t feel like I’m missing anything...

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: August 8, 2020 08:19

If you don't like the new video...you can choose the others...

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

Re: Scarlet
Date: August 8, 2020 14:26

Quote
Stoneage
Okey, videos aside (they are just promotion tools). I would rank Scarlet first among the three new songs before Criss Cross and Living in a Ghost Town.
Sure, it's outtake material but it has a good hook. And almost anything from that period is better than the post 83 era.

Oh no. I like Between the rock and a hard place, you got me rocking, out of tears, saint of me, out of control, biggest mistake, laugh I nearly died, stealing my heart, can't be seen and many other post 83 songs on the same level as 1970s albums.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 8, 2020 19:15

Quote
jumpingjackflash5
Quote
Stoneage
Okey, videos aside (they are just promotion tools). I would rank Scarlet first among the three new songs before Criss Cross and Living in a Ghost Town.
Sure, it's outtake material but it has a good hook. And almost anything from that period is better than the post 83 era.

Oh no. I like Between the rock and a hard place, you got me rocking, out of tears, saint of me, out of control, biggest mistake, laugh I nearly died, stealing my heart, can't be seen and many other post 83 songs on the same level as 1970s albums.

Maybe so, JJ Flash 5. But in seventies the band was still "hot" (or whatever adjective you may use). Relevant is another word used here - I don't know if that is the right word either.
That was seldom the case post 83. Maybe because they paused the band for seven years after that? I don't know...

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 8, 2020 19:34

Quote
Stoneage
Okey, videos aside (they are just promotion tools). I would rank Scarlet first among the three new songs before Criss Cross and Living in a Ghost Town.
Sure, it's outtake material but it has a good hook. And almost anything from that period is better than the post 83 era.

The most disappointing thing about Scarlet IMHO, is that it is a great hook, and had so much more potential that wasn't developed. The vocal, while ok doesn't rise to the level of the music.

It just seems lazy.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 8, 2020 19:46

Might have been better as a slower acoustic ballad ala Wild Horses or Angie. Hard to say really, but seems the chorus would have worked better had it been more subtle.
Had Keith given more time and thought to it back in '74, it might have evolved that way, but instead it was shelved as unusable for decades.
And given the Page factor, seems they were kind of stuck with the loud/chaotic vibe when revisiting it this year, and for better or worse, that's what they settled with.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: micawber ()
Date: August 8, 2020 20:17

This could have been a much bigger hit than Angie. But for unknown reasons (maybe that Mick wasn't involved) it was shelved and never worked on it again until now. If this had been given the "some more sessions" treatment, it would have become a really great song. The hook is great, the rest is chaotic, sloppy and boring. Don't like it much.

An ok demo, as Criss Cross is, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-08 20:18 by micawber.

Re: Scarlet
Date: August 8, 2020 22:08

Quote
micawber
This could have been a much bigger hit than Angie. But for unknown reasons (maybe that Mick wasn't involved) it was shelved and never worked on it again until now. If this had been given the "some more sessions" treatment, it would have become a really great song. The hook is great, the rest is chaotic, sloppy and boring. Don't like it much.

An ok demo, as Criss Cross is, too.

YesI agree with some treatment this could have been a huge hit back then.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: August 8, 2020 22:23

I know this is probably sacrilege, but what if they had given this track to a young rock and roll singer. A session man, so to speak.
Mick is 75, his voice doesn't have the same quality and he's mostly doing mannerisms now.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: August 8, 2020 22:49

Quote
wonderboy
I know this is probably sacrilege, but what if they had given this track to a young rock and roll singer. A session man, so to speak.
Mick is 75, his voice doesn't have the same quality and he's mostly doing mannerisms now.

The first cut had most all of us diehards wondering which parts where the young Mick and which were the old.
Turned out it was all "old" Mick.. winking smiley

So, no.. I don't think the vocalist was the issue cool smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-08 22:50 by MisterDDDD.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: roundnround ()
Date: August 9, 2020 00:25

video: [www.youtube.com]

Keith's intro riff sounds a lot like Payback by James Brown. It does sound more like something Ronnie would have played in those days... The riff is funky but doesn't really fit with the melodic chorus and guitar lines by Jimmy Page... They are playing two different songs...

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