I think SOME us us WANT to like it so much, we're in NEED of something, anything by The Stones, that we're almost talking ourselves into liking it...


Come on Rod ... get ya hand off it ...



ROCKMAN

C'mon people...let's make this compilation and play it really LOUD!!! Let the good vibes roll!!!

Scarlet
[youtu.be]

Criss Cross
[youtu.be]

I'm not signifying
[youtu.be]

Plundered my soul
[youtu.be]

Pass the wine
[youtu.be]

Living in the heart of love
[youtu.be]

Separately
[youtu.be]

All down the line (acoustic version)
[youtu.be]

All the rage
...is coming!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 10:49 by KRiffhard.

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Rockman
HHHHaaaaa yeah well there's a
fair bit of that goes on around here .....

ME get my hand off it??? :-)

Rod

Well Rod ... at the moment
probably safer than drivin down ta Hay St ...



ROCKMAN

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Stoneage
If Ronnie wasn't there (which seems a bit strange since they recorded in his basement) and the lyrics were added afterwards: Was Keith the only Stone to participate on that song?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?

Like pointed out by others, basically "It's Only Rock'n'Roll" is pretty much a similar case. There was only one Stone (Mick) making the backing track, and of the others, Keith over-dubbed his guitars later (actually re-played most of Ronnie's parts). Ronnie wasn't a Stone yet, so he doesn't count. No Charlie, Bill or Taylor there. And they even made a leading single of the album out of it.

I think IORR and "Scarlet" are also similar in the sense that both Mick and Keith, no matter what and with whom they did at the time, had the Stones First policy in mind. That is, if they were heavily involved in creating/recording something, no matter with whom, they had a potential Stones interest there - if the stuff is good enough, it would be used for a Stones release. If decided so, it is up to their judgment how much it needs worked further (by, for example, the rest of the band). In the case of IORR only Keith was needed to make it 'Stonesy' enough. In the case of "Till The Next Time" - something Mick supposedly created with Carly Simon - it needed a lot of work by the rest (seemingly as much that Mick Taylor thought he deserved a writing credit). "Scarlet"" didn't make it, nor did "Can You Feel The Fire" or "The Sure One You Need". Who knows, had Jimmy Page a solo album in mind at the time, had "Scarlet" made it (although I have the feeling that it was basically a Keith Richards run session/calling the shots, and Jimmy was just a guess there, joining the fun, etc. Keith, and thereby the Stones, 'own' it)

I think it is a question of individual taste in judging what makes an official Stones recording a 'real' sounding Stones recording or something else (a fake?). For some people there is no 'real' Stones since Brian was gone. For some people not since Bill's gone. For some people it isn't Stones if there is not Jagger singing there. For some if there is no distinctive guitar by Keith. For some people BLUE & LONESOME isn't a proper Stones album since there are no Jagger/Richards originals. For some people THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES is not real Stones for pure musical reasons. And so and so on. So one can draw a line between an essential or real or genuine Stones and something else, and even defend that claim by whatever arguments. And be as purist as one likes based on that.

The band itself has never been purist, and their rich recorded history is full of whatever kind of experiments and many different people contributing to the final outcome. I guess one can abstract some sort of 'essential Stones' from all of that base, but I guess that still varies from person to person (and the comparision between studio and live sound isn't that easy, since many times those been like totally different animals, and resulting from different ideals, aims and circumstances). And surely both Mick and Keith have some sort of idea what the Stones should sound like, having all that experience: a result of whatever experiments the have had, and seeing the natural boundaries of their abilities. Knowing in which they are good at and in where not so much.

I think there is no use in picking up an individual song and making much claims about its 'Stonesy' factor. "Play With Fire" is a result of a jam in studio containing just Mick and Keith of the band, and from the time when the Stones weren't just a Mick and Keith show. But I guess that doesn't much bother us, not even toughest Brian Jones -era fanatics. "As Tears Go By" is also just Mick and Keith with totally different sounding musicians than the Stones. Then we have all those individual songs from the 'Golden Age' (that seems to define a 'typical' Stones sound) in where either Mick or Keith are missing from action, and sometimes even Charlie Watts. But that doesn't make albums such as LET IT BLEED, STICKY FINGERS or EXILE ON MAIN STREET any weaker. We can handle, I hope, an individual track missing some of those guys, if that serves the song or the album as a whole. We like, say, "You Can't Always Get What You Want", "Moonlight Mile" or "Happy" as recordings. But think of the whole album made from the model of those songs: a whole Stones album in which Mick doesn't sing lead vocals or Keith is not playing guitar or Charlie Watts not in drums. Or a whole Stones album based on the personnel and sound of, say, "Heaven" or "Just Wanna See His Face"... But at least for me those tracks are essential pieces of TATTOO YOU and EXILE to sound what they sound like.

This reminds me of hearing "Plundered My Soul" first time. What hit me strong was the 'feel' of the backing track, that of the way Charlie, Keith, Bill and Nicky interacting and creating such a laid-back 'typical' Stones groove (two Micks were just icing the cake there). My ears said 'that's real Stones!'. But what it actually was was just recognizing a sound that I have missed a long time, something they haven't really been able to/wanted to repeat much for decades. But that was just me liking the band as it sounded back then (as its best as in "Tumbling Dice"), me having a nostalgia for that sound. But that isn't more 'real' Stones than whatever, say, A BIGGER BANG has. They just happen to sound different in different times/eras - and within those as well.

All that said, to me "Scarlet" has such a strong Mick and Keith presence that it cannot be anything but a Rolling Stones recording. Even typical. Jimmy Page can do whatever he wants, but he is a second fiddle there (and he could be anyone, but Keef not). And not just the Page contribution, there surely is something non-typical going on there (the not-so-swinging drums, the busy bass), but it is the Glimmer Twins who dominate there. They own it. That's what my ears say.

- Doxa



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 14:09 by Doxa.

Doxa great writing. I do have a lot of outtakes, for sure not all there are. But what I always was wondering, the song Plundered My Soul, I hadn’t heard before the official l release. Not as an outtake with lyrics nor as an instrumental. Did you or anybody knew the song before official release? And under which title? Most of the outtakes that came on the boxset of Exile On Main St. where knew under the title as they came on the official release.
I do like the song very much.

Pretty sure Plundered My Soul had been unheard prior to 2010.

Christiaan, as far as I know no one had heard anything of, or in any form of, "Plundered" before the official release. Nor of "Following The River". In both cases, there seemingly was only a very basic backing track existing. I recall them saying that their leading idea was to discover tracks not familiar from bootlegs. At that time, Don Was also mentioned "Scarlet" (as this thread proves).

It could be that there really isn't any such truely hidden, secret gems to be found more in their vaults. At least from the golden days. And with "Plundered" and "Following the River" they (particularly Mick) seemingly needed to work hard to come up with a finished song. That was something Mick himself was vocal about at the time. Probably more than for TATTOO YOU even (the backing tracks being in a more rough form)...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 14:45 by Doxa.

Video James had the instrumental PMS.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Video James had the instrumental PMS.

Haha, I was initially about to write "no one (except some people like Video James maybe)"... I should have known better...

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa
Christiaan, as far as I know no one had heard anything of, or in any form of, "Plundered" before the official release. Nor of "Following The River". In both cases, there seemingly was only a very basic backing track existing. I recall them saying that their leading idea was to discover tracks not familiar from bootlegs. At that time, Don Was also mentioned "Scarlet" (as this thread proves).

It could be that there really isn't any such truely hidden, secret gems to be found more in their vaults. At least from the golden days. And with "Plundered" and "Following the River" they (particularly Mick) seemingly needed to work hard to come up with a finished song. That was something Mick himself was vocal about at the time. Probably more than for TATTOO YOU even (the backing tracks being in a more rough form)...

- Doxa

I realize Following The River is not universally liked, but once again Jagger really made some magic there IMO.

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KRiffhard

Quote
quietbeatle

Quote
Rockman
Cant figure out what all the fuss is about
Its a great song ...loose feel .... Enjoy it

Right on. People act like they are being personally affronted. What is that?
Great song. So happy they gave it to us.

There are some experts in negativity on this forum! They analyze every detail and always find negative aspects.

Then why are they here I wonder? What exactly could The Rolling Stones give them to make them happy? Obviously nothing they do will be good enough. Doom and Gloom/Plundered My Soul/Ghost Town/Criss Cross/Scarlet/GHS Box Set. All different and yet all suck? I think you are right, people just like to get on the innerwebs and whine and be negative.

I love this song. Makes me feel sad

Still loving it!

Don't really care if it is pure Stones or not.

It was not a problem with Memo for Turner or Too Many Cooks, just to name a few.

Good music is good music!

C

I like Scarlet and Criss Cross better than anything on a Bigger Bang other than Oh No Not You Again.But others may have a different opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 18:04 by Taylor1.

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Maindefender


I realize Following The River is not universally liked, but once again Jagger really made some magic there IMO.

Well, I also belong to the minority of liking the outcome. It touches me. I think Mick made a great job with it.

- Doxa

Quote
Four Stone Walls
Anyway, it doesn't belong on a Goats Head Soup reissue.

Next?!

Come on man! Don't be all constrained by those 4 stone walls!

At first, many posts past, I thought this song belonged on EOMS. Since then - after further consideration, Emotional Rescue is the correct home for this catchy tune.

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quietbeatle

Quote
Rockman
Cant figure out what all the fuss is about
Its a great song ...loose feel .... Enjoy it

Right on. People act like they are being personally affronted. What is that?
Great song. So happy they gave it to us.

'they' is Mick.

Mick recreated it for 'his' project. To have something interesting/ attractive to make something of the reissue.

He 's done a good job.

A job.


Would, like many of us, like to hear the original.

Are we mushrooms?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 23:12 by Four Stone Walls.

Reading this I can't help thinking about what happened to Mick Taylor? Did he really quit right off or was he gradually left out?
Seems like Ronnie, in a way, made himself indispensable early on. Like on IORR. Just speculating...

To be fair, what we DON'T know is whether Mick was involved in some way in any creative inception of this song Chex Ronnie, before Keith recorded it later that year.

Or whether this was always Keith's baby (or maybe his and Ronnie's - Ahhh)

My guess is that IORR was Ronnie's song. Then one might speculate why he didn't make any fuzz when Jagger and Richards claimed it theirs...

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
Four Stone Walls
Anyway, it doesn't belong on a Goats Head Soup reissue.

Next?!

Come on man! Don't be all constrained by those 4 stone walls!

Oh, Hi

It was a joke. ... but it doesn't.

You bet, got no ceiling.

Why with Micks’s obsession the last 30 years to try and replicate live what the song sounds like on record did they never do that withIORR? I always have hated the speeded up live version.Is it because the studio version sound too much like Bang the Gong?

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KRiffhard

Quote
quietbeatle

Quote
Rockman
Cant figure out what all the fuss is about
Its a great song ...loose feel .... Enjoy it

Right on. People act like they are being personally affronted. What is that?
Great song. So happy they gave it to us.

There are some experts in negativity on this forum! They analyze every detail and always find negative aspects.

For the most part, I tend to see a fair and proper balance between the "positivity" and the "negativity" from many posters here who have a critical viewpoint, including myself.
For example there's fantastic Criss Cross vs. the bumbling/meandering/aimless patched together Scarlet which seems a stretch to even be labeled a Stones song imo.

Realistically, I don't think there's anyone whose 100% continuously negative around here, otherwise they might get the boot from bv. If anything, there's some who are always 100% positive about anything Stones related (no matter how ridiculous) - even Lets Work! Or the overpriced merch! Or Ronnie's colorful doodles. It's all great to them! But really, is everything Stones related to be praised and loved almost to an irrational/overzealous level?
I suppose for some they are infallible and untouchable, and it's not a big deal they feel that way, but for most of us part of the charm and strength and uniqueness of the Rolling Stones is they aren't always perfect - they are humans like all of us, not imaginary Superheroes who can do no wrong. One year they'll release a piece of crap of a tune like Emotional Rescue, and the next year they'll do a full recovery with the release of Tattoo You. That's the way it is - the ups and down with the Rolling Stones, and that's what makes this forum great - to be able to discuss both the positive AND the negative aspects of the band...the good, the bad, and the ugly...warts and all.

So now wondering ...whatever happened to Scarlet? It's been less than a week and it seemingly has disappeared already from all of the press and the general public?
What started out with a massive bang of publicity, with headlines screaming NEW STONES FEATURING JIMMY PAGE practically everywhere you look, has all of the sudden ended in somewhat of a whimper.
To be fair the same happened with the superior Criss Cross, but maybe it's a sign that the general public/real world outside of IORR doesn't really give a crap about some outdated "treasures" that have been dug up and scraped from the barrel. I have a feeling the real world/general public would appreciate and accept a brand new album of originals vs. this dredging up of ancient artifacts and Ghost Town showed some of that acceptance.
So maybe after this GHS Deluxe bombardment is finally over, they can finally get back to work on something fresh and new...might take a few more years to complete a full album, but instead maybe they'll just release singles as they're completed.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I need some Rocky Dijon's positive vibrations!!!
Rocky, where are you?!

Quote
Hairball
So now wondering ...whatever happened to Scarlet? It's been less than a week and it seemingly has disappeared already from all of the press and the general public?
What started out with a massive bang of publicity, with headlines screaming NEW STONES FEATURING JIMMY PAGE practically everywhere you look, has all of the sudden ended in somewhat of a whimper.
To be fair the same happened with the superior Criss Cross, but maybe it's a sign that the general public/real world outside of IORR doesn't really give a crap about some outdated "treasures" that have been dug up and scraped from the barrel. I have a feeling the real world/general public would appreciate and accept a brand new album of originals vs. this dredging up of ancient artifacts and Ghost Town showed some of that acceptance

Rock music and it's audience is getting smaller as we speak, the old fans are dying and the new ones could care less about outtakes from 45-50 years ago, the radio won't play a song from 1974, Ghost Town sounds fresh and current and it got airplay and some media atention, it worked great for a rock song in 2020.

Sadly, the Stones waited too long to release outtakes, 20-25 years ago the audience was still there (see Beatles anthology series, 3 #1 albums in a row), big selling physical albums and rock was still strong.

Now in 2020, half of the rock audience from 1995 is dead, album sales are 5% of the 1995 sales, 90% of the market is streaming and rock music is now a cult genre.

Times have changed.

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Stoneage
My guess is that IORR was Ronnie's song. Then one might speculate why he didn't make any fuzz when Jagger and Richards claimed it theirs...

Mick gave Ronnie 'I can feel the fire'. The story is that they did a swap.

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Stoneage
My guess is that IORR was Ronnie's song. Then one might speculate why he didn't make any fuzz when Jagger and Richards claimed it theirs...

He got what he wanted in the end.