Tell Me :
Talk
Because nobody remembers anything. Bill Wyman would have, but he wasn't present. Jimmy Page is pretending to remember, he's not as frank as he was in that 1986 interview in admitting that
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 11:37 by Erik_Snow.
Just like title 5, needed to come out someday somewhere
Bill is sloppy at times himself
I think Mick and Keith would remember if Mick Taylor wrote Criss Cross with his bass lines or not. While listening to the bass I find that hard to believe
They're also perfectly able to recognise Keith's backing vocals, and wouldn't mix them up with Rick Grech's.
Almost as bad as the Exile anniversary credits, where all the band members were credited with their usual instruments on every song.
Unnecessary sloppy.
I agree with everything you said except this. What was changed? Jagger was pretty open about putting new vocals and guitars on some of the tracks. Half of Exile was recorded (at least the backing tracks) before France, so those included songs were part of the material that wasn't used. Except for maybe Title 5, which was a waste of a song IMO.
It is now
I pointed that fact out earlier, and my answer was 'not really'...it's all questionable at best.
But slap some Jagger 2020 vocals on it, and evidently they can call it a Stones song with many fans falling for it.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Not strange, as Keith lived there - in his garden.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 21:37 by DandelionPowderman.
Yup.
Gotta get up prettttty early in the mornin' to get one by y'all
If only there was some type of precedence.. or many lists and several threads of all "The Rolling Stones" songs that didn't involve all the members.. Good catch.. It's Only Rock And Roll.
[ultimateclassicrock.com]
Nothing new really in Stonesworld. Had to be inspired by Keith to get clearance as a Stones track at the end of the day.
You sound mad.
You mad, bro??
Right-y-o, but that's not the case here. Has there ever been any "Rolling Stones" songs that initially only featured ONE member (in this case Keith w/some established outside musicians),
and then over 45 years later another band member adds something and then it's magically released as a "Rolling Stones" song? I don't think so. Personally, I think this has set a new precedent, and maybe has opened a can of worms...next thing you know any oddity that was recorded by a single member decades ago (whether as a demo, something for an outside project, or even just farting around in the studio alone) and that was never intended for the Stones, can now have another member add something today decades later, and all of the sudden it's a Rolling Stones song. Considering it was only Keith, Page, Grech, and Rowlands, (and Ian) playing in Ronnies basement, something tells me this was never intended to be a Stones track - at least not back when they were initially jamming on it. Why include Page when they could have used Taylor?
On the bright side, maybe some day they'll resurrect some of Brian's experimental noodlings, add some new Mick vocals, and we can have a new Stones song featuring Brian over 50 years after he passed away!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 23:30 by Hairball.
NO
Oh good.
Cause you sound mad.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: July 27, 2020 11:12
Anyway, it doesn't belong on a Goats Head Soup reissue.
Next?!
Next?!
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: July 27, 2020 11:31
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgelicks
The vocals are from 2020, I don't know how some people don't hear it, Mick didn't sing like that in 1974.
Keith vocals are from 1974, most of Mick's new vocals are very well double tracked with Keith, it works great and that's why some people can be confused.
The credits were the confusing part for me.
Why do they present wrong credits again and again?
Because nobody remembers anything. Bill Wyman would have, but he wasn't present. Jimmy Page is pretending to remember, he's not as frank as he was in that 1986 interview in admitting that
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 11:37 by Erik_Snow.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: July 27, 2020 11:35
...even when writing on the tape-box right afterwards they can't remember, they're not even certain they're there right now holding a pen
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: July 27, 2020 11:45
Quote
Four Stone Walls
Anyway, it doesn't belong on a Goats Head Soup reissue.
Next?!
Just like title 5, needed to come out someday somewhere
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
peoplewitheyes
()
Date: July 27, 2020 12:17
I find it odd that some people are surprised that the Stones and their mates can't remember all the correct credits etc.
Can you remember all the details of drunken nights half a century ago?
Hell, often the following morning everything is a little hazy, and especially with no cell phone pictures to nudge the memory.
Can you remember all the details of drunken nights half a century ago?
Hell, often the following morning everything is a little hazy, and especially with no cell phone pictures to nudge the memory.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: July 27, 2020 14:02
the more listens, the better this track sounds...
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: July 27, 2020 14:11
Jimmy’s partner is called Scarlett, no? Perhaps his enthusiasm for this outtake is clouded somewhat!
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 27, 2020 14:28
Quote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgelicks
The vocals are from 2020, I don't know how some people don't hear it, Mick didn't sing like that in 1974.
Keith vocals are from 1974, most of Mick's new vocals are very well double tracked with Keith, it works great and that's why some people can be confused.
The credits were the confusing part for me.
Why do they present wrong credits again and again?
Because nobody remembers anything. Bill Wyman would have, but he wasn't present. Jimmy Page is pretending to remember, he's not as frank as he was in that 1986 interview in admitting that
Bill is sloppy at times himself
I think Mick and Keith would remember if Mick Taylor wrote Criss Cross with his bass lines or not. While listening to the bass I find that hard to believe
They're also perfectly able to recognise Keith's backing vocals, and wouldn't mix them up with Rick Grech's.
Almost as bad as the Exile anniversary credits, where all the band members were credited with their usual instruments on every song.
Unnecessary sloppy.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: July 27, 2020 15:22
Bill Wyman is listed as vocals and bass on Criss Cross. Then they attribute vocals to the bassist on Scarlet. Common theme?
My theory to the Exile reissue is that they looked at the original credits where the band members are listed on their respective instruments and just attributed it blindly to each song.
Don Was had access to everything, so the new songs seem correct on the Exile reissue.
My theory to the Exile reissue is that they looked at the original credits where the band members are listed on their respective instruments and just attributed it blindly to each song.
Don Was had access to everything, so the new songs seem correct on the Exile reissue.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: July 27, 2020 15:53
Have just listened to that Mick Jagger radio breakfast interview.
It's like listening to Boris Johnson wrt to bullshit factor 11.
I still think it has a Ronnie basement feel though (1974 Mick, not '73, you were there occasionally).
I now think this might even be Ronnie riff, it's so lovely and upbeat. It's possible that Keith played that riff while Ronnie played the lead parts that Jimmy played in October. They sound very Ronnie to me, though at the end there are some lovely Page bits reminiscent of something off Houses of the Holy.
Speculating - but not bulshitting!
p.s. am I wrong that Ronnie's 'Own album' recordings were in '74? I always thought so because his live gigs happened that year and I thought they followed soon after the recordings. Though perhaps in '73 and again in '74?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 16:00 by Four Stone Walls.
It's like listening to Boris Johnson wrt to bullshit factor 11.
I still think it has a Ronnie basement feel though (1974 Mick, not '73, you were there occasionally).
I now think this might even be Ronnie riff, it's so lovely and upbeat. It's possible that Keith played that riff while Ronnie played the lead parts that Jimmy played in October. They sound very Ronnie to me, though at the end there are some lovely Page bits reminiscent of something off Houses of the Holy.
Speculating - but not bulshitting!
p.s. am I wrong that Ronnie's 'Own album' recordings were in '74? I always thought so because his live gigs happened that year and I thought they followed soon after the recordings. Though perhaps in '73 and again in '74?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 16:00 by Four Stone Walls.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Topi
()
Date: July 27, 2020 16:13
Yes, 1974. (Source: Nico Zentgraf's website [www.nzentgraf.de])
Ronnie's not credited on "Scarlet", and he apparently was on tour with the Faces in Europe when it was recorded (source: same as above)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 16:16 by Topi.
Ronnie's not credited on "Scarlet", and he apparently was on tour with the Faces in Europe when it was recorded (source: same as above)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 16:16 by Topi.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: July 27, 2020 18:59
No he isn't, and thanks for the confirmation.
Scarlet is not mentioned as one of the recorded songs but that doesn't mean they didn't t play it?
Wasn't the song IORR jammed at these sessions? It isn't mentioned. And it was recorded mainly there (with later overdubs) - which is pretty good going cos wasn't it released in July?
Cheers.
Scarlet is not mentioned as one of the recorded songs but that doesn't mean they didn't t play it?
Wasn't the song IORR jammed at these sessions? It isn't mentioned. And it was recorded mainly there (with later overdubs) - which is pretty good going cos wasn't it released in July?
Cheers.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
georgemcdonnell314
()
Date: July 27, 2020 19:21
None of us really know when the song first came about as none of us were there. It may have just been an idea during the GHS recordings and they brought it back at a later time to see if they could make something out of it.
Also, none of us can be sure if the writing on the photo of the master tape is legit. This could easily have been photoshopped to whatever they wanted us to believe.
Look what they did with some of the tracks on the Exile reissue it is obvious that things were changed for us to believe they were from Exile when in fact they were not.
What does matter is that they have given us an unreleased song which has a groove from the 70's and for that reason we should all be grateful.
They could have given us nothing!
Keep in mind it is all of this guessing that has kept their names in the headlines over the years.
Also, none of us can be sure if the writing on the photo of the master tape is legit. This could easily have been photoshopped to whatever they wanted us to believe.
Look what they did with some of the tracks on the Exile reissue it is obvious that things were changed for us to believe they were from Exile when in fact they were not.
What does matter is that they have given us an unreleased song which has a groove from the 70's and for that reason we should all be grateful.
They could have given us nothing!
Keep in mind it is all of this guessing that has kept their names in the headlines over the years.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: July 27, 2020 19:50
If Ronnie wasn't there (which seems a bit strange since they recorded in his basement) and the lyrics were added afterwards: Was Keith the only Stone to participate on that song?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: July 27, 2020 19:53
Quote
georgemcdonnell314
Look what they did with some of the tracks on the Exile reissue it is obvious that things were changed for us to believe they were from Exile when in fact they were not.
I agree with everything you said except this. What was changed? Jagger was pretty open about putting new vocals and guitars on some of the tracks. Half of Exile was recorded (at least the backing tracks) before France, so those included songs were part of the material that wasn't used. Except for maybe Title 5, which was a waste of a song IMO.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: July 27, 2020 19:56
Quote
Rip This
the more listens, the better this track sounds...
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: July 27, 2020 20:07
Plundered my soul
Pass the Wine
I'm not signfying
Criss Cross
Scarlet
All the rage
Living in the heart of love
Separately
...a classic album!!!
Pass the Wine
I'm not signfying
Criss Cross
Scarlet
All the rage
Living in the heart of love
Separately
...a classic album!!!
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: July 27, 2020 20:07
Quote
Stoneage
If Ronnie wasn't there (which seems a bit strange since they recorded in his basement) and the lyrics were added afterwards: Was Keith the only Stone to participate on that song?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?
It is now
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 27, 2020 21:04
Quote
Stoneage
If Ronnie wasn't there (which seems a bit strange since they recorded in his basement) and the lyrics were added afterwards: Was Keith the only Stone to participate on that song?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?
I pointed that fact out earlier, and my answer was 'not really'...it's all questionable at best.
But slap some Jagger 2020 vocals on it, and evidently they can call it a Stones song with many fans falling for it.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 27, 2020 21:36
Quote
Stoneage
If Ronnie wasn't there (which seems a bit strange since they recorded in his basement) and the lyrics were added afterwards: Was Keith the only Stone to participate on that song?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?
Not strange, as Keith lived there - in his garden.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 21:37 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: July 27, 2020 21:40
Quote
HairballQuote
Stoneage
If Ronnie wasn't there (which seems a bit strange since they recorded in his basement) and the lyrics were added afterwards: Was Keith the only Stone to participate on that song?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?
I pointed that fact out earlier, and my answer was 'not really'...it's all questionable at best.
But slap some Jagger 2020 vocals on it, and evidently they can call it a Stones song with many fans falling for it.
Yup.
Gotta get up prettttty early in the mornin' to get one by y'all
If only there was some type of precedence.. or many lists and several threads of all "The Rolling Stones" songs that didn't involve all the members.. Good catch
.. It's Only Rock And Roll.[ultimateclassicrock.com]
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: July 27, 2020 22:01
I don't KNOW if it was attempted/created or recorded in dear old Ron's basement ( with a twiglet up his nose perhaps) but it sure has that feel and hence my instinct on first hearing it, although 'knowing' from previous banter, that the known recorded version was done by Keith, Jimmy, Rick, Stu and the drummer man etc in October '74.
Since then I've thought that this track has a Ronnie feel and also have learned that MPJ says it was done in said basement. But we don't need to believe him really (or me).
Was the whole thing a spontaneous Keith creation in summer/autumn '74. It's possible. There's a man who knows. Infact Ron and others might know.
Until he signifies I'll stick with my basement theory.
It seems only to be tracks that were on Ronnie's albums that are on Zentgraaf's list. Cos IORR ain't on it ( on it, on it,no, it ain't).
Since then I've thought that this track has a Ronnie feel and also have learned that MPJ says it was done in said basement. But we don't need to believe him really (or me).
Was the whole thing a spontaneous Keith creation in summer/autumn '74. It's possible. There's a man who knows. Infact Ron and others might know.
Until he signifies I'll stick with my basement theory.
It seems only to be tracks that were on Ronnie's albums that are on Zentgraaf's list. Cos IORR ain't on it ( on it, on it,no, it ain't).
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Topi
()
Date: July 27, 2020 22:22
IORR was first recorded in December 1973 as per Zentgraf.
Where?
You guessed right: Ronnie's basement. With Kenney Jones and David Bowie.
[www.nzentgraf.de]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 22:27 by Topi.
Where?
You guessed right: Ronnie's basement. With Kenney Jones and David Bowie.
[www.nzentgraf.de]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 22:27 by Topi.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: July 27, 2020 22:47
Quote
HairballQuote
Stoneage
If Ronnie wasn't there (which seems a bit strange since they recorded in his basement) and the lyrics were added afterwards: Was Keith the only Stone to participate on that song?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?
I pointed that fact out earlier, and my answer was 'not really'...it's all questionable at best.
But slap some Jagger 2020 vocals on it, and evidently they can call it a Stones song with many fans falling for it.
Nothing new really in Stonesworld. Had to be inspired by Keith to get clearance as a Stones track at the end of the day.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 27, 2020 23:10
Maybe Keith and Jimmy should make an album together, they gell together surprisingly well, get a few guest singers in on a few tracks, Keith take care of the rest, beats waiting forever for a lousy Stones Jagger solo album.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: July 27, 2020 23:16
Quote
stone4ever
Maybe Keith and Jimmy should make an album together, they gell together surprisingly well, get a few guest singers in on a few tracks, Keith take care of the rest, beats waiting forever for a lousy Stones Jagger solo album.
You sound mad.
You mad, bro??
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 27, 2020 23:27
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
HairballQuote
Stoneage
If Ronnie wasn't there (which seems a bit strange since they recorded in his basement) and the lyrics were added afterwards: Was Keith the only Stone to participate on that song?
And in that case - is it a Rolling Stones song then?
I pointed that fact out earlier, and my answer was 'not really'...it's all questionable at best.
But slap some Jagger 2020 vocals on it, and evidently they can call it a Stones song with many fans falling for it.
Yup.
Gotta get up prettttty early in the mornin' to get one by y'all
If only there was some type of precedence.. or many lists and several threads of all "The Rolling Stones" songs that didn't involve all the members.. Good catch
[ultimateclassicrock.com]
Right-y-o, but that's not the case here. Has there ever been any "Rolling Stones" songs that initially only featured ONE member (in this case Keith w/some established outside musicians),
and then over 45 years later another band member adds something and then it's magically released as a "Rolling Stones" song? I don't think so. Personally, I think this has set a new precedent, and maybe has opened a can of worms...next thing you know any oddity that was recorded by a single member decades ago (whether as a demo, something for an outside project, or even just farting around in the studio alone) and that was never intended for the Stones, can now have another member add something today decades later, and all of the sudden it's a Rolling Stones song. Considering it was only Keith, Page, Grech, and Rowlands, (and Ian) playing in Ronnies basement, something tells me this was never intended to be a Stones track - at least not back when they were initially jamming on it. Why include Page when they could have used Taylor?
On the bright side, maybe some day they'll resurrect some of Brian's experimental noodlings, add some new Mick vocals, and we can have a new Stones song featuring Brian over 50 years after he passed away!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-27 23:30 by Hairball.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 28, 2020 00:04
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
stone4ever
Maybe Keith and Jimmy should make an album together, they gell together surprisingly well, get a few guest singers in on a few tracks, Keith take care of the rest, beats waiting forever for a lousy Stones Jagger solo album.
You sound mad.
You mad, bro??
NO
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: July 28, 2020 00:09
Quote
stone4everQuote
MisterDDDDQuote
stone4ever
Maybe Keith and Jimmy should make an album together, they gell together surprisingly well, get a few guest singers in on a few tracks, Keith take care of the rest, beats waiting forever for a lousy Stones Jagger solo album.
You sound mad.
You mad, bro??
NO
Oh good.
Cause you sound mad.
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