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Re: Scarlet
Date: July 12, 2020 22:35

Quote
Hairball
Quote
MelBelli
Quote
Hairball
Could be some very subtle use of the wah wah in Taylor's main solo on Heartbreaker (as if he has it completely stepped down on), as well as the lead towards the end...

Yes, this.

thumbs up

Could have been what Keith was referring to then.

If it's a wah in the solo at all, it's so modest that it would be a bit strange to say "Taylor on wah"?

Anyways, there should be no doubt about the dominant wah in this tune, who played it and on which instrument smiling smiley

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: JordyLicks96 ()
Date: July 12, 2020 22:41

Quote
Mathijs
The snippet of Scarlet has new Jagger vocals.....

And the wah on Criss Cross is a clavinet, not a guitar wah. Taylor playes bass.

Mathijs

Very hard to tell from the snippet but I don't think those are new Jagger vocals. Of course I could very well be wrong but I don't think he's doing new vocals for these reissues anymore like EXILE and SOME GIRLS. If so, "Scarlet" would be the only song with new vocals on it.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 12, 2020 23:13

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
MelBelli
Quote
Hairball
Could be some very subtle use of the wah wah in Taylor's main solo on Heartbreaker (as if he has it completely stepped down on), as well as the lead towards the end...

Yes, this.

thumbs up

Could have been what Keith was referring to then.

If it's a wah in the solo at all, it's so modest that it would be a bit strange to say "Taylor on wah"?

Anyways, there should be no doubt about the dominant wah in this tune, who played it and on which instrument smiling smiley

You'd have to take that up with Keith who said ''Heartbreaker has Billy Preston on keybords, Mick Taylor on wah wah, and me on bass.'' back in '73.
Could be there was much more Taylor wah wah when they were actually working on it, and the final cut was much more subtle, but the fact is MT played wah wah to some degree according to Keith.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: July 12, 2020 23:16

Re Heartbreaker, I'll have to listen again and can't at present, but although it starts off with Preston's clavinet I think there's also wah guitar and there's a guitar during the verses which is likely Taylor - same guitar unwahed?- Keith said that he played bass on this one ( in a TV interview with him and Taylor, both fairly stoned/high) Edit - Keith said he played bass on 100 Years Ago. Not sure about Heartbreaker but I think it's him there too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-12 23:42 by Four Stone Walls.

Re: Scarlet
Date: July 12, 2020 23:30

Quote
Hairball
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
MelBelli
Quote
Hairball
Could be some very subtle use of the wah wah in Taylor's main solo on Heartbreaker (as if he has it completely stepped down on), as well as the lead towards the end...

Yes, this.

thumbs up

Could have been what Keith was referring to then.

If it's a wah in the solo at all, it's so modest that it would be a bit strange to say "Taylor on wah"?

Anyways, there should be no doubt about the dominant wah in this tune, who played it and on which instrument smiling smiley

You'd have to take that up with Keith who said ''Heartbreaker has Billy Preston on keybords, Mick Taylor on wah wah, and me on bass.'' back in '73.
Could be there was much more Taylor wah wah when they were actually working on it, and the final cut was much more subtle, but the fact is MT played wah wah to some degree according to Keith.

The discussion here was whether the wah wah-sound on Heartbreaker was Preston or Taylor. Is Taylor's guitar the first thing that comes to mind for you, then?

Taylor's guitar is not a 'wah wah-track' just because he steps on the pedal for a couple of seconds (if he indeed did it at all).

I suspect people mix it up with some of the live versions here.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 12, 2020 23:42

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
MelBelli
Quote
Hairball
Could be some very subtle use of the wah wah in Taylor's main solo on Heartbreaker (as if he has it completely stepped down on), as well as the lead towards the end...

Yes, this.

thumbs up

Could have been what Keith was referring to then.

If it's a wah in the solo at all, it's so modest that it would be a bit strange to say "Taylor on wah"?

Anyways, there should be no doubt about the dominant wah in this tune, who played it and on which instrument smiling smiley

You'd have to take that up with Keith who said ''Heartbreaker has Billy Preston on keybords, Mick Taylor on wah wah, and me on bass.'' back in '73.
Could be there was much more Taylor wah wah when they were actually working on it, and the final cut was much more subtle, but the fact is MT played wah wah to some degree according to Keith.

The discussion here was whether the wah wah-sound on Heartbreaker was Preston or Taylor. Is Taylor's guitar the first thing that comes to mind for you, then?

Taylor's guitar is not a 'wah wah-track' just because he steps on the pedal for a couple of seconds (if he indeed did it at all).

I suspect people mix it up with some of the live versions here.

Right, but I was just responding to you saying "It's shocking if Keith believed it was Taylor on wah wah" when Keith could have been referring to some subtle guitar wah wah vs. something you're referring to.
That quote really doesn't sound so strange or "shocking" to me as Keith was there, he said it in '73, and it's probably more accurate than someone speculating nearly 50 years after the fact.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-12 23:42 by Hairball.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: July 12, 2020 23:49

I do think Keith knew what he meant and what he was saying ( this is nothing personal!). I do remember listening to it a lot in '73 and trying to distinguish wah guitar which I thought was present and Preston's clavinet which clearly is.

I also have respect for what Mathjis says usually.

Isn't Taylor's solo guitar the same as the one during the verses and then using Wah-wah in intro, choruses and outro?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-13 12:24 by Four Stone Walls.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: July 13, 2020 00:45

Can someone please post the song?

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: July 13, 2020 01:21

I’m not the expert like Dandelion P. is when it comes to distinguishing a wah wah guitar from a clavinet , but to my layman’s ears the wah wahguitar Ron Wood plays on the live Out of Control doesn’t sound that different from the Heartbreaker wah wah.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Turner ()
Date: July 14, 2020 01:07







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-14 01:16 by Turner.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Lien ()
Date: July 15, 2020 11:24

Quote
JordyLicks96
Quote
Mathijs
The snippet of Scarlet has new Jagger vocals.....

And the wah on Criss Cross is a clavinet, not a guitar wah. Taylor playes bass.

Mathijs

Very hard to tell from the snippet but I don't think those are new Jagger vocals. Of course I could very well be wrong but I don't think he's doing new vocals for these reissues anymore like EXILE and SOME GIRLS. If so, "Scarlet" would be the only song with new vocals on it.

Keith did the vocals on the 'original' From a previous post ; " The song was called "Scarlet," and it
featured both Jimmy and Keith on guitar, with Keith providing vocals.
It also featured Ric Grech, formerly of Traffic, on bass."

Re: Scarlet
Date: July 15, 2020 12:46

Quote
Hairball
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
MelBelli
Quote
Hairball
Could be some very subtle use of the wah wah in Taylor's main solo on Heartbreaker (as if he has it completely stepped down on), as well as the lead towards the end...

Yes, this.

thumbs up

Could have been what Keith was referring to then.

If it's a wah in the solo at all, it's so modest that it would be a bit strange to say "Taylor on wah"?

Anyways, there should be no doubt about the dominant wah in this tune, who played it and on which instrument smiling smiley

You'd have to take that up with Keith who said ''Heartbreaker has Billy Preston on keybords, Mick Taylor on wah wah, and me on bass.'' back in '73.
Could be there was much more Taylor wah wah when they were actually working on it, and the final cut was much more subtle, but the fact is MT played wah wah to some degree according to Keith.

And it could be that Keith wasn't around when they cut it, and added his bass later. Maybe he actually believed the wah was Taylor? Who knows?

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: July 15, 2020 15:42

Quote
Taylor1
I’m not the expert like Dandelion P. is when it comes to distinguishing a wah wah guitar from a clavinet , but to my layman’s ears the wah wahguitar Ron Wood plays on the live Out of Control doesn’t sound that different from the Heartbreaker wah wah.

thats awful

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: July 15, 2020 16:17

Quote
Rip This
Quote
Taylor1
I’m not the expert like Dandelion P. is when it comes to distinguishing a wah wah guitar from a clavinet , but to my layman’s ears the wah wahguitar Ron Wood plays on the live Out of Control doesn’t sound that different from the Heartbreaker wah wah.

thats awful

Yes, I also find it awful that I don't have such good ears to distinguish stuff as Dandie...grinning smiley

- Doxa

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: July 15, 2020 16:27

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
MelBelli
Quote
Hairball
Could be some very subtle use of the wah wah in Taylor's main solo on Heartbreaker (as if he has it completely stepped down on), as well as the lead towards the end...

Yes, this.

thumbs up

Could have been what Keith was referring to then.

If it's a wah in the solo at all, it's so modest that it would be a bit strange to say "Taylor on wah"?

Anyways, there should be no doubt about the dominant wah in this tune, who played it and on which instrument smiling smiley

You'd have to take that up with Keith who said ''Heartbreaker has Billy Preston on keybords, Mick Taylor on wah wah, and me on bass.'' back in '73.
Could be there was much more Taylor wah wah when they were actually working on it, and the final cut was much more subtle, but the fact is MT played wah wah to some degree according to Keith.

The discussion here was whether the wah wah-sound on Heartbreaker was Preston or Taylor. Is Taylor's guitar the first thing that comes to mind for you, then?

Taylor's guitar is not a 'wah wah-track' just because he steps on the pedal for a couple of seconds (if he indeed did it at all).

I suspect people mix it up with some of the live versions here.

I thought the discussion here was re Scarlet

Rod

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 15, 2020 17:01

Just had a listen on headphones to Heartbreaker - if there's guitar wah-wah on this song it's subtle but I don't hear any wah-wahing going on guitar wise, just the clavinet. I thought the solo had some but it doesn't. Or if it does he doesn't move the pedal. There is some noise during the guitar solo in Heartbreaker early on that sounds like a bad cord.

There's some kind of effect going on with some guitars. The "solo" in Mr D has it. It's not phase, hard to tell if it's a Leslie but it has a phase-esque presence to it.

Mr D has some funky sounds in it. There's a lot going on in that song. Wah-wah is not one of them it seems.

100 Years Ago has wah-wah guitar.

Coming Down Again has wah-wah guitar.

Can You Hear The Magic has a lot of funk going on. Certainly sounds like the clavinet is going through a Leslie with a bit of wah like in Heartbreaker.

Through The Lonely Nights starts with wah-wah guitar. The acoustic sounds killer.

The lead in Tops has the same presence that's in Heartbreaker.


Heartbreaker has Billy Preston on keyboards, Mick Taylor on wah-wah, and me on bass.

- Keith Richards, 1973
[timeisonourside.com]



I played quite a bit of bass on the album too. I played bass on Dancing with Mr. D. (...) I played bass on that song Coming Down Again. I played bass on Can You Hear the Music too.

- Mick Taylor, 1979

[timeisonourside.com]

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: July 15, 2020 18:36

Quote
Topi
Quote
massmick
I believe Scarlet is song #9 titled Dancing In The Light on The Lost Sessions Vol 1 Sweet Black Angel Empress Valley Supreme disc. It is an instrumental there. That's what my ears say.
Also on a bunch more including Trident demos.
Supposed from Nov 72 Electra Studios LA along with Potted Shrimp, Alladins Story and Leather Jacket.

Not saying Zentgraf's database is 100% correct, but there is no mention of them even having been at Elektra Studios in LA in 1972 and no mention of "Potted Shrimp" "Aladdin Story" or "Leather Jacket" recorded that year.

Potted Shrimp is dated earlier, 1970, while Aladdin Story is mentioned in 1969. Leather Jacket is from 1970 as well. All at Olympic Sound Studios.

Elektra Studios was used to finish Let It Bleed in 1969.

Aladdin Story could have started in 1969, but Jim Price is credited on there playing vibraphone and he didn’t play on anything else that early.

It either:

1- Stems from 1969 and Jimmy Miller brought it out of the archives for Exile and it had some overdubs

2- Was recorded later with Price on the basic tracks. Sticky Fingers sessions, perhaps

3- Was recorded in LA in 1972.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: July 15, 2020 18:43

Okay, four pages now. Is there a snippet of this song? Something to listen to? Where?

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: July 15, 2020 18:50

That Richards quote sounds like he meant to say “100 Years Ago” where it’s obvious he’s playing bass, Preston on clav, and Taylor on wah.

Taylor sounds like he’s playing through a Leslie on Heartbreaker and Mr. D. He’s got that fuzzy sustained sound on Hear the Music and he has that wah/Leslie combo on Fast Talking. That fuzzy thing is going on in Lonely Nights as well.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: July 15, 2020 20:03

Where can one hear this song?

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 15, 2020 20:14

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
Topi
Quote
massmick
I believe Scarlet is song #9 titled Dancing In The Light on The Lost Sessions Vol 1 Sweet Black Angel Empress Valley Supreme disc. It is an instrumental there. That's what my ears say.
Also on a bunch more including Trident demos.
Supposed from Nov 72 Electra Studios LA along with Potted Shrimp, Alladins Story and Leather Jacket.

Not saying Zentgraf's database is 100% correct, but there is no mention of them even having been at Elektra Studios in LA in 1972 and no mention of "Potted Shrimp" "Aladdin Story" or "Leather Jacket" recorded that year.

Potted Shrimp is dated earlier, 1970, while Aladdin Story is mentioned in 1969. Leather Jacket is from 1970 as well. All at Olympic Sound Studios.

Elektra Studios was used to finish Let It Bleed in 1969.

Aladdin Story could have started in 1969, but Jim Price is credited on there playing vibraphone and he didn’t play on anything else that early.

It either:

1- Stems from 1969 and Jimmy Miller brought it out of the archives for Exile and it had some overdubs

2- Was recorded later with Price on the basic tracks. Sticky Fingers sessions, perhaps

3- Was recorded in LA in 1972.

It wouldn't be a surprise if they did that, worked on it later. They've done that here and there with various songs.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 15, 2020 20:46

Quote
Chris Fountain
Where can one hear this song?

Nowhere yet, if you're talking about Scarlet.

Only five seconds of it can be heard here: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-15 20:50 by Topi.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: July 15, 2020 20:49

Quote
Topi
Quote
Chris Fountain
Where can one hear this song?

Nowhere yet, if you're talking about Scarlet.

If no one has heard it -then what is thread about?

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 15, 2020 20:52

What are threads about? winking smiley Speculation! People got side-tracked a little, talking about Heartbreaker and stuff.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 15, 2020 21:45

Quote
Topi
What are threads about? winking smiley Speculation! People got side-tracked a little, talking about Heartbreaker and stuff.

Yeah, well, you know... details!

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 15, 2020 21:56

It's interesting to talk about a song nobody has heard! What fun would it be to talk about one that everybody has heard? winking smiley

When you think about it, it's the same thing when the band is about to announce a tour and/or just before the tickets go ln sale. That usually creates the most buzz here. After the tickets have been sold, things get more quiet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-15 21:57 by Topi.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: July 15, 2020 22:17

Quote
Topi
It's interesting to talk about a song nobody has heard! What fun would it be to talk about one that everybody has heard? winking smiley

When you think about it, it's the same thing when the band is about to announce a tour and/or just before the tickets go ln sale. That usually creates the most buzz here. After the tickets have been sold, things get more quiet.

After that excellent analysis - I know Scarlet is great with some wah wah and GHS sound spinning smiley sticking its tongue out



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-15 22:27 by Chris Fountain.

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: July 15, 2020 23:33

Quote
Chris Fountain
Quote
Topi
Quote
Chris Fountain
Where can one hear this song?

Nowhere yet, if you're talking about Scarlet.

If no one has heard it -then what is thread about?

Can't wait to read all the negative comments......smiling bouncing smiley

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: July 16, 2020 00:22

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
massmick
I guess I'm just trying to make excuses for my ears. It really is just a tiny blurb...but they went right to DITL in a heartbeat. It would be nice to actually see parts of these guys lives that isnt stored as data somewhere...
Rock on!

Well, actually the similarity between DITL and Scarlet struck me too when I first heard the short clip, but it's the groove, not the exact chord structure from what I could make out from the few seconds.

Wait are you talking the same DITL that was released in 2010 [youtu.be] or a mistitled instrumental on a bootleg ?

As for Keith singing the original Scarlet, it's possible, but there was info posted several times before that Mick had worked on a song called Scarlet in the 70s in an exotic location...ah yes in Rio [ianstewartsixthstone.blogspot.com]

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Re: Scarlet
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 16, 2020 09:56

I believe massmick was indeed talking about DITL and how similar it sounds to the 5-second clip of "Scarlet".

(Of course, Jimmy Page is not on DITL...)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-16 10:15 by Topi.

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