It's long been assumed and accepted that Child of the Moon was attempted during Their Satanic Majesties Request sessions and that the versions with acoustic guitar included on The Satanic Sessions double box sets as well as a few other bootlegs are those 1967 recordings.

However, a few things seem to imply that those Child of the Moon outtake recordings are actually from early 1968 Beggars Banquet sessions.

Here's why I think they are from 1968...

* First of all there's the tuning of the acoustic guitar, it's tuned to open D. Keith has said that he did not utilize open tunings on recordings until Beggars Banquet sessions.

* Secondly Mick is singing along providing a guide vocal. On all of the other 1967 outtakes included on the box sets Mick does not do this, but this is something they did do during making of Beggars Banquet.

* Thirdly at the end of the Child of the Moon outtake on the 3rd disc of the Satanic Sessions box set we hear a voice that sounds American, it sounds like Jimmy Miller.

There's a few other hints such as Nicky's piano part and Charlie's drumming. On both Child of the Moon and Jigsaw Puzzle outtakes Charlie's drumming is more focused and defined compared to how he played during the 1967 sessions. Even though he's playing with brushes on the outtakes of Child of the Moon, he's playing a version of one of the classic beats he was to use quite a number of times during 1968 - 1969, Gimme Shelter comes to mind. Although hinted at before, he never really played it so tightly until 1968.

I'm not sure where Nico Zentgraf etc get their information(seems they assume a lot just like us), but given the above points I think the Child of the Moon outtakes are from 1968, not 1967.

Watcha fink?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-27 14:36 by His Majesty.

There is an edit at 1:23, and bass line is not typical of Wyman. I think it is from BTB sessions

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KeithNacho
There is an edit at 1:23, and bass line is not typical of Wyman. I think it is from BTB sessions

There is no bassline, it's an Hohner electric piano and whoever is playing it is playing lines that are clearly close to how the eventual bassline came to be on the released version. Possibly Bill or Brian!?

An edit? There's more than one outtake and they are all part of an ongoing session, everyone is playing at same time, no overdubs on the outtakes. Maybe you've heard one that's been edited by someone else?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-27 14:33 by His Majesty.

His Majesty - you are truly the Sherlock Holmes of IORR. I, for one, take my hat off to your detective work. I think you're on to something here. Time to send in the forensic team.

HERCULES POIROT is much better

Yes, I need to get a life!

Perhaps Child of the Moon acoustic guitar outtakes included on the Satanic Sessions box sets date from this session.

680317A 17th March - 3rd April: London, Olympic Sound Studios (partially without BJ).
Producer: Jimmy Miller. Sound engineer: Eddie Kramer.
- Child Of The Moon II (MJ/KR) -29th March, unverified acoustic version
- Child Of The Moon III (MJ/KR) -Nicky Hopkins on piano and organ, Rocky
Dijon on percussion; backing track of IV
- Child Of The Moon IV (MJ/KR) -Nicky Hopkins on piano and organ, Jimmy
Miller on backing vocals, Rocky Dijon on percussion; 7“ version

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KeithNacho
HERCULES POIROT is much better

Sherlock was a better musician! He played a mean violin and probably would have loved to jam along to Country Honk.

Yeah, and there were not only tobacco in his pipe..a real rock'n'roller Sir Sherlock...

I always loved this song. Thanks for the info on it HM!

Interesting...
Long before the Satanic boxes came out, I remember reading somewhere that it was first tried as an acoustic song during the March 1968 sessions.

The probable line up:
Mick - faint guide vocals
Keith - acoustic guitar
Nicky - piano
Charlie - drums
Brian or Bill - electric piano (takes 11 & 12)

What was with the (RMK) thing with this song?

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Lynd8
What was with the (RMK) thing with this song?

Noone knows for sure and please lets not turn this in to yet another of those RMK speculation threads.

RMK- Royalties Mick n Keith

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His Majesty

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Lynd8
What was with the (RMK) thing with this song?

Noone knows for sure and please lets not turn this in to yet another of those RMK speculation threads.

If Peter Noone has known all this time, someone should ask him!

Great post His Majesty, wonderful to read because you obviously have a good ear for breaking down musical time references. And fun to read from such an obvious fan.

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Silver Dagger
His Majesty - you are truly the Sherlock Holmes of IORR. I, for one, take my hat off to your detective work. I think you're on to something here. Time to send in the forensic team.

It's all about deduction, my friend.

Quote
His Majesty
It's long been assumed and accepted that Child of the Moon was attempted during Their Satanic Majesties Request sessions and that the versions with acoustic guitar included on The Satanic Sessions double box sets as well as a few other bootlegs are those 1967 recordings.

However, a few things seem to imply that those Child of the Moon outtake recordings are actually from early 1968 Beggars Banquet sessions.

Here's why I think they are from 1968...

* First of all there's the tuning of the acoustic guitar, it's tuned to open D. Keith has said that he did not utilize open tunings on recordings until Beggars Banquet sessions.

* Secondly Mick is singing along providing a guide vocal. On all of the other 1967 outtakes included on the box sets Mick does not do this, but this is something they did do during making of Beggars Banquet.

* Thirdly at the end of the Child of the Moon outtake on the 3rd disc of the Satanic Sessions box set we hear a voice that sounds American, it sounds like Jimmy Miller.

There's a few other hints such as Nicky's piano part and Charlie's drumming. On both Child of the Moon and Jigsaw Puzzle outtakes Charlie's drumming is more focused and defined compared to how he played during the 1967 sessions. Even though he's playing with brushes on the outtakes of Child of the Moon, he's playing a version of one of the classic beats he was to use quite a number of times during 1968 - 1969, Gimme Shelter comes to mind. Although hinted at before, he never really played it so tightly until 1968.

I'm not sure where Nico Zentgraf etc get their information(seems they assume a lot just like us), but given the above points I think the Child of the Moon outtakes are from 1968, not 1967.

Watcha fink?

Actually, when the bootleg was released it was already known that COTM and JSP were not from the Satanic sessions, but from a later date. All these tapes, including SRVP, From the Vault etc, with all the BB, LIB and Gimme Shelter movie outtakes, as well as all the SF and Exile outtakes that are known actually all came from Jimmy Miller, who made copies for friends when he lived in London in '92 - '93. Some tapes allegedly were sold through Sotheby's, but most came straight from Miller. As far as I know COTM and JSP takes all come from March '68, the first actual sessions with Miller.

Mathijs

Ah, that first part should read I've long assumed and accepted... then.

Going by other peoples posts over the years I was not alone in that assumption though.

Thanks for the info Mathijs.

Is there a way to hear this version online anywhere?

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Mathijs
Actually, when the bootleg was released it was already known that COTM and JSP were not from the Satanic sessions, but from a later date. All these tapes, including SRVP, From the Vault etc, with all the BB, LIB and Gimme Shelter movie outtakes, as well as all the SF and Exile outtakes that are known actually all came from Jimmy Miller, who made copies for friends when he lived in London in '92 - '93. Some tapes allegedly were sold through Sotheby's, but most came straight from Miller. As far as I know COTM and JSP takes all come from March '68, the first actual sessions with Miller.

Mathijs

Many thanks for this information!

One of my favorite Mick vocals. Psychedlic down right!

Mathijs was the Satanic Sessions box set the first bootleg to feature the acoustic Child of the Moon outtakes? I first read about the box sets in Record Collector, I think in 1997.

Pretty sure the Satanic box was the first release of this COTM.

Where can one hear these outakes?

JSP?

__________________________

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NICOS
JSP?

Jigsaw Puzzle.

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poor immigrant
Is there a way to hear this version online anywhere?

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Jimmie
Where can one hear these outakes?

Have a look here, not sure if the download links are still active though.

Where's that joint? - The Satanic Sessions HQ

[www.iorr.org]

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His Majesty

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NICOS
JSP?

Jigsaw Puzzle.

One of my favorites and I couldn't puzzled it out !!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________________

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His Majesty
Mathijs was the Satanic Sessions box set the first bootleg to feature the acoustic Child of the Moon outtakes? I first read about the box sets in Record Collector, I think in 1997.

I think so...I do remember there where some more vinyl and CD releases in late '96 or so with some takes not on the box set. But I don't think COTM was on these as well. I also don't think there's more COTM takes other than on the box set.

But keep in mind no one was really interested in any of this stuff as all was instrumental!

Mathijs

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Mathijs
But keep in mind no one was really interested in any of this stuff as all was instrumental!

Mathijs

Wow, it's some of the most revealing and recordings out there!