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Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: April 24, 2010 15:36

Quote
Amsterdamned
I promised not to talk about it.

You've broken the promise already then.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: April 24, 2010 16:19

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His Majesty
Quote
Amsterdamned
I promised not to talk about it.

You've broken the promise already then.

Be grateful to A., now you know the truth.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: pmk251 ()
Date: April 24, 2010 18:30

If A says it's so, I believe it. I am not hearing Keith on this track. I thought perhaps the opening strumming was Jagger, but either way it does not feel like Keith to me. Gee, Jagger and Taylor in the studio together without Keith. It is not like that has not ever happened before. It is an interesting event to reflect on. Seems like old times for those two?

The track feels cobbled together to me, but I would not mind hearing a fresh start performance of it.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: April 24, 2010 19:23

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Amsterdamned
I promised not to talk about it.

You've broken the promise already then.

Nowinking smiley

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: April 24, 2010 20:03

"so who is this source you have? , sorry but I don't really put any stock into an 'unamed source', the rhythm sounds like 70's Keith and he is listed on the credits"
Quote
Ket"

I promised not to talk about it.[/quote=Amsterdamned]

You've broken the promise already then.[/quote= his Majesty]

No,to be more precise on both sides.Please stick to the context!
The rest of the story is insignificant to me.Taylor is still a great part of the Stones
sound,and he proved it.He brings back the old genuine sound that is dearly missed by many Stoneslovers, and bashed by some people here.


Iam doing Taylor justice. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Filip020169 ()
Date: April 24, 2010 20:09

Quote
skipstone
There's one spot, some little lick and a riff, that sounds completely different from the rest of the track. Just that one spot.


I noticed that too.
I think most of the lead was laid down at the original recording, but some 'fills' probably are new.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-24 20:20 by Filip020169.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: April 24, 2010 20:11

Quote
pmk251
If A says it's so, I believe it. I am not hearing Keith on this track. I thought perhaps the opening strumming was Jagger, but either way it does not feel like Keith to me. Gee, Jagger and Taylor in the studio together without Keith. It is not like that has not ever happened before. It is an interesting event to reflect on. Seems like old times for those two?

The track feels cobbled together to me, but I would not mind hearing a fresh start performance of it.

Credits say Keith and I see no reason to doubt it. There seem to be two rhythm guitars on the track - one of them played by Keith.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: April 24, 2010 20:13

Quote
Amsterdamned

Iam doing Taylor justice. Nothing wrong with that.

On the contrary. I read a comment on YT. Someone said something like: " I'm pretty sure that 200 years ahead people will listen to these timeless unsurpassed songs
into their spaceships! Taylor transported these classics tracks into
space-litterary & metaphorical-"

History has proven that that comment was spot on.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: skelly ()
Date: April 24, 2010 21:03

Quote
Glam Descendant
Mick Jagger, Mick Taylor reunite in studio after 36 years

2010-03-22 10:20:00

Singer Mick Jagger is set to reunite with former 'Rolling Stones' bandmember Mick Taylor in the studio - 36 years after the guitarist left the group.
Taylor joined the rockers in 1969, replacing Brian Jones in the line-up, but he left the group five years later in 1974 after allegedly falling out with Jagger and guitarist Keith Richards.
However, they are reportedly headed into the studio to work on a new re-mastered version of the Stones' 1972 album 'Exile On Main Street', reports contactmusic.com.
According to a source, Taylor is providing 'new guitar licks' to one of the songs on the album.
The source adds, 'He said he's been in the studio with Mick Jagger.

Good post. If it's true then there's the answer. Maybe it will be revealed in the documentary?

I think I've bust a button on my trousers....

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: fuman ()
Date: April 24, 2010 21:16

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Ket
Quote
Amsterdamned
Quote
kissinc***incannes
Quote
Amsterdamned
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cc
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Amsterdamned
Quote
cc
if it's jagger on the open-G riffing guitar, is it old or new? If it's new, then what parts of the track are old?

It's Taylor left and right on this release,slip of the mouse in my previous post.

well, regardless--if the guitars are new, what existed in 1971?

Who cares?Taylor did this job,lead and rhythm,left and right.If the old tape was ok they would have released it a long time ago.

so if get what you're saying here then essentially mick and/or was came across this track in the vaults but either the tape was in poor condition or the original recording was in bad shape. so they cleaned up what they could with pro tools, but even so the original tape it was probably just a skeletal outline of the track (bass, drum, piano, horns) and then the two mick's overdubbed guitar and vox respectively, with keith adding a bit of acoustic for that "lift" to the sound he often speak about. is that a pretty accurate description of how PMS evolved?


I don't know in what shape the original tape was,but Mick T did the lead and rhythm,.I got this from a well informed source.
BTW Taylor is capable enough to sound like Keith,winking smiley
Here I draw the line.

so who is this source you have? , sorry but I don't really put any stock into an 'unamed source', the rhythm sounds like 70's Keith and he is listed on the credits.

I don't hear Keith on PMS.
Can you post the time within PMS, where you think you hear Keith?
Thanks !!

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Rik ()
Date: April 24, 2010 21:20

maybe keith has pms

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: April 25, 2010 03:24

Quote
kleermaker


Be grateful to A., now you know the truth.

I don't care about the track, nor the supposed truth about who played the guitar parts. smiling smiley

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: micwer ()
Date: April 25, 2010 04:43

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
kleermaker


Be grateful to A., now you know the truth.

I don't care about the track, nor the supposed truth about who played the guitar parts. smiling smiley

Then why do you waste your time commenting on it?

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: April 25, 2010 05:21

Quote
micwer

Then why do you waste your time commenting on it?

A couple of posts is hardly a waste of time.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: oldkr ()
Date: April 25, 2010 06:36

keith gets paid whether its mick t or not. mick t gets a couple of grand as a session man. who ultimately wins?

OLDKR

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: James Kirk ()
Date: April 25, 2010 06:56

BRAND NEW!!!

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: April 26, 2010 15:50

After listening to this a bit more closely I have changed my mind, I think it's NEW Mick Taylor !
It sounds to me it's a fairly uninterested MT playing...but still as fluid as ever.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: April 26, 2010 17:35

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Thru and Thru
Quote
Gazza
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skelly
I believe that if Mick Taylor had been working on a Stones project in 2009 we would know about it. .

We do. Someone (I forget who) broke the story several weeks ago that he'd added some overdubs. There were a few cynics at the time, but it turned out he was almost certanly right.

And in this day and age with the magic of pro tools its quite easy for someone to be involved on a record without going near a studio or the music industry being aware of it.

I could swear Jagger himself talked about "bringing in" MT for some overdubs in an interview he gave recently, I can't remember exactly when or where but I know I did read it somewhere, possibly on Shidoobee.

Might be wrong, but I dont specifically recall any interview where he actually admitted to that.

As Don Was was totally evasive about it in all the interviews HE has done, refusing to confirm or deny it as if it was some kind of state secret, it would render his caution absolutely pointless if Jagger simply went ahead and confirmed it.

Personal opinion, to answer the original question - New.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: WeLoveYou ()
Date: April 26, 2010 17:38

The more I listen to it, the more I can hear vintage Taylor (circa 1972/1973). It's not a flashy part, his fretboard dexterity is lesser these days, but you do get a few glimpses of the old Taylor, especially in the last minute the song. I still believe it's new, but I love the fact that you can hear the old Taylor magic coming through. You have to listen - on first listening his playing doesn't sound like anything special...but listen carefully and there are some clever skillful runs in there.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: April 26, 2010 21:50

I believe you, Amsterdamned. Nobody's credit says "acoustic guitar", so it's probably Keith on acoustic.

Who knows, this could be an old Jagger/Taylor track, like Sway or Winter. Could even be from the GHS sessions, but I still believe Jagger knows better than to put a late '72 outtake on an Exile disc. But it would be nice to get all this settled publicly by someone in the Stones.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: April 27, 2010 00:29

The notion that Taylor plays the open G rythm track is utter crap. No matter how 'well-informed' or 'secretive' it all is, but that's not Taylor on the rythm guitar, nor is it Jagger. That's Keith, and it is recorded during GHS sessions.

Mathijs

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: April 27, 2010 00:45

Quote
Mathijs
The notion that Taylor plays the open G rythm track is utter crap. No matter how 'well-informed' or 'secretive' it all is, but that's not Taylor on the rythm guitar, nor is it Jagger. That's Keith, and it is recorded during GHS sessions.

Mathijs

How can you be so sure?

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: April 27, 2010 05:40

Quote
Mathijs
The notion that Taylor plays the open G rythm track is utter crap. No matter how 'well-informed' or 'secretive' it all is, but that's not Taylor on the rythm guitar, nor is it Jagger. That's Keith, and it is recorded during GHS sessions.

Mathijs

you should also say that it is your opinion....you make out as you know for sure or were there when the song was recorded!

but I agree, it's Keith on acoustic.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: James Kirk ()
Date: April 27, 2010 06:01

It's obviously a new guitar bit. It's also clearly a new vocal by Jagger. I don't understand why they are attempting to pass this off (nobody will confirm or deny) as anything, but a brand new song.

I'm sure that the very basic track was started in the early 70's, but there is no way that this isn't a nearly 100% new track. What's wrong with that? I think what they have done (gone back + finished off a 40 year old song) is pretty interesting and the results were very good.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: April 27, 2010 12:33

It's obvious the rhythm guitar, bass and drums where recorded together and not separate. There's this push-pull interlocking between bass and drums and guitar and drums that's impossible to record as an overdub. Then there's the sound of bass, drums and guitar which is just typical late '72 / early '73 Stones, and impossible to recreate 40 years later. Compare the sound of the open G guitar to the sound of Tops: it's identical. Then there's the little riffs being played by Keith: it's typical exploring of the possibilities of the open G spectrum, as Keith did on so many songs of the day (TD, Save Me, Tops). Check the live versions of TD from '72 with the riffs he plays on PMS: they are all in the same vein.

Last, Taylor is a fantastic lead player, but has always been a mediocre rythm player. There's just not a chance in this world Taylor could ever lay down such a smooth rhythm guitar (nor could Keith after '77 for that matter).

There's a lot more going on with the rhythm guitar that you would think on first listen, and that is what has made Richards and the Stones famous.

Mathijs
Ps it is actually quite irritating someone wants to boost oneself by saying “I have a source telling me…” while all factual evidence is missing. If you believe in conspiracies a remark like that suffices I guess…

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Addicted ()
Date: April 27, 2010 13:05

Thanks for putting things right, Mathijs.
It seems the taylorites are willing to go go great trouble, and big lies, to give their hero credit for something he didn't do.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: CMan ()
Date: April 27, 2010 14:52

Hi all, I'm new to this board & this is my very first post here. Forgive me if this has already been covered, but the vocal toward the end IS Keith, right? And it's vintage Keith, right? (to me, it sounds more like early '80s Keith, but it's still vintage Keith nonetheless) So that would mean Keith sang a guide vocal when the track was recorded originally, and part of it was kept on the final mix...and if Keith was signing a guide vocal back then, it means it was a "Keith" song, and therefore Keith would definitely have played guitar on it, right? And is there really an acoustic guitar on this track? Maybe I'd need to listen through headphones instead of just computer speakers to hear it, but I haven't yet.

Thanks,
Craig

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: saulsurvivor ()
Date: April 27, 2010 14:57

For what it's worth, (insert snarky comment here) in this months Guitar World interview, Keith says that MT didn't contribute anything new to any of the bonus tracks.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: April 27, 2010 14:59

Quote
Mathijs
It's obvious the rhythm guitar, bass and drums where recorded together and not separate. There's this push-pull interlocking between bass and drums and guitar and drums that's impossible to record as an overdub. Then there's the sound of bass, drums and guitar which is just typical late '72 / early '73 Stones, and impossible to recreate 40 years later. Compare the sound of the open G guitar to the sound of Tops: it's identical. Then there's the little riffs being played by Keith: it's typical exploring of the possibilities of the open G spectrum, as Keith did on so many songs of the day (TD, Save Me, Tops). Check the live versions of TD from '72 with the riffs he plays on PMS: they are all in the same vein.

Last, Taylor is a fantastic lead player, but has always been a mediocre rythm player. There's just not a chance in this world Taylor could ever lay down such a smooth rhythm guitar (nor could Keith after '77 for that matter).

There's a lot more going on with the rhythm guitar that you would think on first listen, and that is what has made Richards and the Stones famous.

Mathijs
Ps it is actually quite irritating someone wants to boost oneself by saying “I have a source telling me…” while all factual evidence is missing. If you believe in conspiracies a remark like that suffices I guess…
i agree 100% that is keith richards on rhythm , you can hear keith's distinctive sound .at first i thought taylor's lead was new but i have to agree with Mathijs that this was already in the can from before .ditto for the remark about tops .that is exactly the style and vein of taylor's lead same style like the riff from tops .Mathijs you are worth your weight in gold with this EXPERT analysis !!!!!!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-27 15:04 by The Greek.

Re: M. TAYLOR's Contribution To PMS : Old or New ?
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: April 27, 2010 15:09

You guys believe anything anyone says here...
I don't take Mathijs account as the definite truth just because he sounds so sure.
But I agree it sounds like Keith, but I also think it could be Taylor. He is not a bad rhythm player, just less distinctive than Keith.

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