Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
DandelionPowderman
If Matt played the piano, how did he make the piano sound that way? It sounds old, even for 1971, imo.

Not saying it's Nicky, but I always thought it was.

It could be Nicky. It just never sounded vintage to my ears. The thing is when I ask an alleged source if Clifford plays on it and he compliments me for working it out and tells me Clifford "enhanced" the track so Mick had a proper melody to build a song, I believe him. He could be telling the truth or he could be stringing me along by telling me something that will sound credible to me.

This is new info to me too, kudos to RockyD for checking. I have always assumed it was vintage piano and vintage Nicky throughout. However, I have questioned the elements surrounding the piano, the guitars, even parts of the drums...(oh, here we go!) But I have no inside info. Some editing and looping is probably/obviously in play here, but any harmonic enhancing? To these ears, the only place someone can edit in something newer than the original is midway through the chorus, a lot of other stuff is happening there. I think we would easily have detected foul play in the verse. Perhaps Matt did some sampling / pitching/ editing of the original in the chorus, but this is just guessing. We will probably never know. And let me add, I have never heard Nickys original piano piece that Following was based on, "Whistling Wally" or whatever it was called. Anybody have that?

Quote
RobberBride

Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
DandelionPowderman
If Matt played the piano, how did he make the piano sound that way? It sounds old, even for 1971, imo.

Not saying it's Nicky, but I always thought it was.

It could be Nicky. It just never sounded vintage to my ears. The thing is when I ask an alleged source if Clifford plays on it and he compliments me for working it out and tells me Clifford "enhanced" the track so Mick had a proper melody to build a song, I believe him. He could be telling the truth or he could be stringing me along by telling me something that will sound credible to me.

This is new info to me too, kudos to RockyD for checking. I have always assumed it was vintage piano and vintage Nicky throughout. However, I have questioned the elements surrounding the piano, the guitars, even parts of the drums...(oh, here we go!) But I have no inside info. Some editing and looping is probably/obviously in play here, but any harmonic enhancing? To these ears, the only place someone can edit in something newer than the original is midway through the chorus, a lot of other stuff is happening there. I think we would easily have detected foul play in the verse. Perhaps Matt did some sampling / pitching/ editing of the original in the chorus, but this is just guessing. We will probably never know. And let me add, I have never heard Nickys original piano piece that Following was based on, "Whistling Wally" or whatever it was called. Anybody have that?

Jagger said to The Sunday Times May 9, 2010 of the Nicky Hopkins original piano-led track: "I've always liked it, but I never quite knew what was going to happen to it."
Source: [www.songfacts.com]

Quote
TravelinMan
I must have missed it, is his name on the credits?

I believe Matt is credited with production assistance or some such. Nothing noting he plays keyboards.

Quote
Hairball
Never really liked Plundered My Soul because of the vocals - both the lead and backup - they just sound wrong for some reason.
I did buy a couple of the 7" vinyl singles on Record Store Day, and the best part of it was All Down the Line as the B-side,
Nice cover art also:

Is the B-side the newer alternate version or the version from the original record?

Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
DandelionPowderman
If Matt played the piano, how did he make the piano sound that way? It sounds old, even for 1971, imo.

Not saying it's Nicky, but I always thought it was.

It could be Nicky. It just never sounded vintage to my ears. The thing is when I ask an alleged source if Clifford plays on it and he compliments me for working it out and tells me Clifford "enhanced" the track so Mick had a proper melody to build a song, I believe him. He could be telling the truth or he could be stringing me along by telling me something that will sound credible to me.

The recording sounds vintage to my ears. You asked if Matt played the piano, right? Because he probably also plays the mellotron strings?

There are countless ways how Matt C probably was involved in making that track happen. Who knows how warbly the original tape was? Pitch control, EQ-ing original instruments back into existence. I'm sure there were passages where things were beyond usable, and they just had to jump in and punch something in.
Thing is - it all sounds very like it was done in service of making it as authentic and original as can be. And IMO they succeeded.

I could be completely wrong and Mick's lyrics and his (and Lisa and Cindy's) vocals may be the only new elements apart from the strings. The piano sounded more "new" than vintage to me which was why I questioned it. I'm not sure a mellotron was used (I rather doubt it) since David Campbell is credited on the album for strings. Same gentleman who arranged strings for "Out of Tears."

I agree about the piano not sounding like Nicky on a Grand. But this may be an electric piano.

I don't have the deluxe version in front of me, what is the personnel listed for Plundered?? They seem to have noted newer personnel where applicable.

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I agree about the piano not sounding like Nicky on a Grand. But this may be an electric piano.

To me it sounds like a badly recorded piano, most likely in a big room.

I remember the first time I heard it. I reacted to the recording quality of the piano - like the mics were placed too far away, or something.

But people have fooled me with these things before

For what it's worth, from timeisonourside.com

The original tape was pretty sparse... I just started from nothing on that. The core tape of it was the piano and the drums, bass, and guitar. There was no top line or lyric. I started from scratch - I mean, that's what I do, and I've done it many times before. And it's daunting in the beginning, but after a while you get into it.
- Mick Jagger, 2010


On Following the River, the vocal was there but (Mick) knew what he wanted to do with the words - he just never got around to it. So he sang it again. And in one case there is a great ballad that never had lyrics. He wrote it and finished it.
- Don Was, 2010


It's a good feeling when it all comes together. There's a track on (the album) called Following the River, which is a ballad. It's a got beautiful piano on it, which I didn't play. And I'd heard this before but it didn't have any lyrics at all. It had a beautiful - I could hear different melodies but I didn't know how I was going to get the melody to fit with this already existing track, which is very heavily piano. And when it came together, when I was sort of - I was just singing onto it, I was putting it on the stereo and I was singing along, trying out different melody lines and trying out different words. And when it actually came together, it's a very good moment, you know? There's a moment - there's a frustration, there's a build-up of this [makes discouraged face], and then try, try, try, try, and there's a moment when it really comes together for you.
- Mick Jagger, 2010

Quote
Maindefender
I don't have the deluxe version in front of me, what is the personnel listed for Plundered?? They seem to have noted newer personnel where applicable.

MJ-vocals, gtr, perc, KR-gtr, CW-dr, MT-gtr, BW-bass, Bobby Keys-sax, Nicky Hopkins-piano, Lisa Fischer, Cindy Michelle-bg voc

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
Hairball
Never really liked Plundered My Soul because of the vocals - both the lead and backup - they just sound wrong for some reason.
I did buy a couple of the 7" vinyl singles on Record Store Day, and the best part of it was All Down the Line as the B-side,
Nice cover art also:

Is the B-side the newer alternate version or the version from the original record?

It’s the standard version. The could have upped sales by including the alternate take or the old b-side mono mix. However, both versions are out there, so no complaining from here.

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
Hairball
Never really liked Plundered My Soul because of the vocals - both the lead and backup - they just sound wrong for some reason.
I did buy a couple of the 7" vinyl singles on Record Store Day, and the best part of it was All Down the Line as the B-side,
Nice cover art also:

Is the B-side the newer alternate version or the version from the original record?

Original, remastered.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I could be completely wrong and Mick's lyrics and his (and Lisa and Cindy's) vocals may be the only new elements apart from the strings. The piano sounded more "new" than vintage to me which was why I questioned it. I'm not sure a mellotron was used (I rather doubt it) since David Campbell is credited on the album for strings. Same gentleman who arranged strings for "Out of Tears."

David Campbell is Beck Hansen’s dad. Matt Clifford could have processed the piano digitally, and altered the timing, making it sound less vintage and less Nicky.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-24 00:28 by TeddyB1018.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I agree about the piano not sounding like Nicky on a Grand. But this may be an electric piano.

To me it sounds like a badly recorded piano, most likely in a big room.

I remember the first time I heard it. I reacted to the recording quality of the piano - like the mics were placed too far away, or something.

But people have fooled me with these things before

That piano could be a Wurlitzer, could be a Uprite or Grand not recorded well, or it could have got lost on deteriorating tape; it could have been recorded very badly to begin with.
And w/ today's technology you can do so much that it almost doesn't matter - all you need is a signal of some sort.
Knowing certain work principals of the Stones, and their camp, it stands to reason that they try to keep it pretty organic. I would assume Matt C, or HIS team would all adhere to that.

Sorry - I just realized I literally repeated my own earlier post. Climbing the walls...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-24 01:32 by Palace Revolution 2000.

One track I was hoping might appear on this set was the "Rip This Joint" early version with Keith on vocals. But it's listed as an unverified track on Nico's site so it may not even exist. Would have been nice though...

Quote
TeddyB1018

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I could be completely wrong and Mick's lyrics and his (and Lisa and Cindy's) vocals may be the only new elements apart from the strings. The piano sounded more "new" than vintage to me which was why I questioned it. I'm not sure a mellotron was used (I rather doubt it) since David Campbell is credited on the album for strings. Same gentleman who arranged strings for "Out of Tears."

David Campbell is Beck Hansen’s dad. Matt Clifford could have processed the piano digitally, and altered the timing, making it sound less vintage and less Nicky.

Thank you. That would make sense to the alleged Matt "enhanced" the piano so Mick could find a melody to build the song on rather than the overdub I concluded the statement to mean. Didn't know that about David Campbell. Interesting.

Mick and Keith said that originally Sophia Loren was much longer than the released Pass The Wine.Is there a bootleg of the long version circulating

It doesn't circulate through normal channels. There are people who say they've heard it, but you have to be one of them to get to hear it.

…. …. greedy bastards ….



ROCKMAN

Quote
Rocky Dijon
It doesn't circulate through normal channels. There are people who say they've heard it, but you have to be one of them to get to hear it.

There are people who claim to have heard "English Summer", but are not able to describe how it actually sounds apart from being a "lost masterpiece", while on commonly circulating tracks they're able to recognize a glitched guitar note buried deep in the mix... I'm not able to dispute all these stories, but there are a lot of weirdos out there also in Stones world, so in the end, hearing is believing.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Overall, I would have been happier if the disc had been:

1. Pass the Wine
2. Plundered My Soul
3. I'm Not Signifying (with horns mixed properly and no blues harp overdub)
4. All Down the Line (acoustic)
5. All Down the Line (electric outtake)
6. Get a Line on You
7. Fragile
8. Good Time Women
9. Hillside Blues
10. Traveling Man
11. Exile on Main Street Blues (circulating edit)

That is a good set.

Quote
retired_dog
My problem with the bonus disc is not whether Matt or Nicky played on a tune or if Matt enhanced Nicky's playing with overdubs or whether Mick's blues harp does not sound like 1972 - these are minor details for me because other issues are far more apparent in my book:

1. The choice of material in general - see Rocky's list as an example of a far more satisfying set,

2. Mick's strained, overstretched and unnatural sounding vocal delivery on certain tracks like Dancing In The Light and Following The River which sounds miles away from his 1972 vocal coolness (obviously either unnoticed by the producer or due to the producer lacking the balls to tell him), and,

3. in addition to 2. the fact that Mick's vocals are way to high in the mix of all tracks that have "recently recorded" vocals, totally unlike the way they were mixed on the original album.

All in all, more indicators that Don Was is not the right producer for this band.

Why can the fans see it but the band can’t? The guy just flat out sucks.i did an entire thread on the voodoo outtakes and how I could pick a random fan off this board and they could’ve produced a better record than the one we got.
The best live band on the planet and for years now they just get lost in the studio.

Why didn’t they put on the Exile Deluxe the long version of Sophia Loreninstead of crap like Title7 that had nothing to do with the Exile sessions .And Hillside Blues would have been a lot better than So Divine,which sounds like the Stones repeating the Paint It Black riff through a boring dirge

Quote
padre69
I just compared the 2010 vinyl to my Artisian version and I actually like the 2010 more. Doesn’t sound brickwalled to my ears, nut I hear bass and piano better, which is nice.

Because vinyl can't be brickwalled. All digital formats of the LP are brickwalled.

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
padre69
I just compared the 2010 vinyl to my Artisian version and I actually like the 2010 more. Doesn’t sound brickwalled to my ears, nut I hear bass and piano better, which is nice.

Because vinyl can't be brickwalled. All digital formats of the LP are brickwalled.

I sold my 2010 version precisely because it WAS brick-walled. Especially noticeable in the lack of air in the bass and drum parts that were recorded in separate rooms in the Nell Cote basement.I A/B'ed it with the copy I got for my 15th birthday (I'm 62 now) and that reissue was on eBay the same night.

Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
TravelinMan
I must have missed it, is his name on the credits?

I believe Matt is credited with production assistance or some such. Nothing noting he plays keyboards.

Nowhere have I seen Matt credited. Just Don Was, Jimmy Miller and The Glimmer Twins.

Quote
rbk

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
padre69
I just compared the 2010 vinyl to my Artisian version and I actually like the 2010 more. Doesn’t sound brickwalled to my ears, nut I hear bass and piano better, which is nice.

Because vinyl can't be brickwalled. All digital formats of the LP are brickwalled.

I sold my 2010 version precisely because it WAS brick-walled. Especially noticeable in the lack of air in the bass and drum parts that were recorded in separate rooms in the Nell Cote basement.I A/B'ed it with the copy I got for my 15th birthday (I'm 62 now) and that reissue was on eBay the same night.

Hmmm. A slight slip of memory - vinyl can indeed be brickwalled - at least what you hear can be - the signal source, which is the digital master/remaster that is brickwalled; the input to vinyl is lower.

Because vinyl can't be physically brickwalled - it wouldn't be playable.

Which gets back to the thing about people buying vinyl reissues because they think it sounds better is just their complete ignorance since it's all digital sourced now. So people enjoy the task of flipping the vinyl - save yer money and just press pause instead.

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Thing is - it all sounds very like it was done in service of making it as authentic and original as can be.

Shame Mick did not think the same when adding his new vocals!