Hi all...surfin' the web here at work...came upon website of Wayne Perkins [www.wayneperkins.com] ...lots of photos, including one of him & Keith. Never seen photo of those 2 together before. Probably taken circa March 1975?
[http://www.wayneperkins.com/Photos.htm] Scroll down.

keep on rockin'..

Yes! Great!

Is it a new one, I cheked his page not so long ago. Maybe there are more photos out there...Cool.

Yes, a missed chance for Keith & the R Stones!

Is Wayne related to Carl Perkins?

Another one disappointed from the Stones . .

It's been very hard for him.
A great player and the Stones had made him believe to be their new boy.
He had already been living in England with Keith who tried his best to make him a Stone ( by dragging Perkins into the drug world).

Then suddenly during another studiosession in Munich Ronnie arrived and it was all over for poor Wayne!

Must have been a trauma for years . .

I'm certainly a fan of Wayne Perkins' playing, but nobody dragged him into the drug world. He chose. Its the same with the issue of songwriting credits, if Brian, Bill, Mick Taylor, Gram Parsons, etc. were naive enough to be ripped off by Mick and Keith more than once, they got what they deserved. They chose to be doormats and to work with people who did not respect them. Anyone in the Stones' sphere who came out a drug addict can't blame the Stones although I'm sure they'd prefer to blame others for their problems because its so much easier to say "They're bad people" than it is to say "I let myself get ripped off or I decided to become a junkie, too." Charlie Watts may be the only individual in their circle to take accountability for his substance abuse problems. Ry Cooder was the only one bright enough to say "These guys are ripping me off, I will never work with them again." I'm not defending Mick and Keith's honor here, but it gets tiresome to see people using them as an alibi for their own weaknesses and bad decisions. I can believe Mick and Keith are or were rotten human beings, there's certainly enough evidence, but I don't buy into the lie that sensitive artists need to be protected and aren't big enough to be held accountable for their own actions.

Originally I didn't mean my posting too serious.

But I have to say in this case I don't find it that easy.

Perkins was brought over to England. Then he was "socialized" by Keith.
Who had him living at his house, playin music and introducing him to his "surroundings" and slowly into drugs too.
Then sudenly he was sent home.

Well, that's the biz and that's the Stones!
But I would have been upset too.

So...who really is playing on Start Me Up? Is that Ronnie? Since it's a Black And Blue leftover, it would be easy enough to guess it might be Wayne Perkins or Harvey...or Ronnie. As it is with Worried About You and Slave even.

I can't recall at this moment. I know there are tons of websites devoted to this kind of thing but there are some that are either wrong or...what we need is some official thing - A BOX SET!? - to set all the who's straight.

I think on Jump Back it says Ronnie...but even that has some of the details wrong about who is on what track...

"Yes, a missed chance for Keith & the R Stones!"

Ahh, but look at the haircut! Would never have done.......

its keith and woodie on START ME UP!

>> Charlie Watts may be the only individual in their circle to take accountability for his substance abuse problems. <,

interesting statement, Rocky Dijon. i know lots of "Brian followers" who blame the Glimmer Twins for his substance problems;
did Brian himself ever say anything like that? similarly, can i recall Mick T himself ever saying anything like that?
[scratching head] i'm not sure. maybe i haven't been paying attention.

hi all..takin' a break at work here...

I don't know if the question was serious or not but to answer: "Is Wayne related to Carl Perkins?" --Not to my knowledge! (But who knows if you started researching the geneology!?)

As for Wayne Perkins taking over Mick Taylor's position in the band, I've read over the years that Wayne & Keith worked together for about a month (or 2 -3 weeks) at the "Wick" in England (Feb - Mar 75).

On p. 231 of the Victor Brockis biography of Keith, Brockis quotes Richards: "I had Perkins living with me for over a month. He came to Munich as the Stones' guitar player. But Mick felt that we should try out somebody else -- Harvey Mandel. Then Ronnie Wood walked in...".

I've read before that (then) RSR pres. Marshall Chess leaked the news that Perkins did indeed have the job. It sounds like Perkins actually replaced Taylor for a month or so before Ronnie walked in, but it was never officially revealed to the public.

The released Rolling Stones tracks on which Wayne Perkins appears are: Hand of Fate, Fool To Cry, Memory Motel and Worried About You, all cut in Munich, 1975.

Check out Nico Zentgraph's pages for more details.

Wayne Perkins...an incredible player.

So I was crabby this morning...its been a rough day at work. At least I didn't blame the Glimmer Twins...

but you should have!. They've been treating you as a doormat for years.

But most here would consider that an honour.

Depends on how they wipe their feet and what's on them.

Congrats, Four Stone Walls, you successfully skewered both sides with one remark. Cheers!

Quote
skipstone
So...who really is playing on Start Me Up? Is that Ronnie? Since it's a Black And Blue leftover

SMU is not a B&B leftover. First recordings are from '77. And the guitars are as Keith & Ronnie as can be, no mistaking there.

Mathijs

There is allegedly a B&B session reel with a brief version of the SMU riff running only a few seconds. This was found a low quality tape that circulated in the early 1980s on vinyl. I've not heard it, but I've seen references to it. Someone who has everything may be able to confirm. Nico also lists it on his site, I believe.

>>> Charlie Watts may be the only individual in their circle to take accountability for his substance abuse problems. <,


Nonsense, that's a ridiculously sweeping statement. Mick Taylor has always claimed he didn't get heavily involved in drugs until after he left the Stones and he certainly never blamed anyone but himself. (Even if it's untrue, he's consistently accepted the blame). For that matter, Marianne Faithfull has always taken accountability for her own actions as well.

Quote
Four Stone Walls
but you should have!. They've been treating you as a doormat for years.

But most here would consider that an honour.

Depends on how they wipe their feet and what's on them.

Lol, yeah

I think the Glimmers has to be @#$%& or "lizzards" if you like - it's not nice but they have to be that. Sad about Perkins though. Sounds like he had the job.

I think anyone is responsible for its life... it is so much easy to put the blame on others. You can be dragged by others, but you haven chosen to be dragged.

I know it is sometimes hard to accept, but it is the way to escape from drug addiction and so many danger you can face in your life. Wathever is your past, you have to face it and to be responsible (which doesn't mean you should blame yourself.. ).

I would say : Amen !! (I am talking like a preacher... it's funny and it shows I am getting old...).

What a drag it is getting old.. (Mother's little helper, Aftermath).

Ummmm.....

First off, if you listen to Start Me Up, it does not have the same cymbals or drum sounds as Some Girls - tibre wise or, in particular, one certain cymbal wise. Second...

750325A 25th March - 4th April: Munich, Germany Musicland Studios. Producer: The Glimmer
Twins. Sound engineer: Keith Harwood.
Additional musicians: Billy Preston (p, org)/Ollie Brown (perc, cowbell)/Wayne Perkins
(gtr)/Harvey Mandel (gtr)/RW (gtr, bvoc; 30.3. - 4.4.75)
- Cellophane Trousers I (MJ/KR) -instrumental (uses Too Tough-riff)
- Cellophane Trousers II (MJ/KR) -version I with additional lead guitar
- Crazy Mama III (MJ/KR) -RW on guitar and backing vocals, Billy Preston on piano
and backing vocals, Ollie Brown on cowbell; backing track recorded on the 29th
March, Black And Blue-version
- Crazy Mama IV (MJ/KR) -RW on guitar and backing vocals, Billy Preston on piano
and backing vocals, Ollie Brown on cowbell; edited Sucking In The 70’s-version
- Hand Of Fate I (MJ/KR) -Wayne Perkins on guitar, Ollie Brown on percussion; early
version with partly different lyrics
- Hand Of Fate II (MJ/KR) - RW on backing vocals, Wayne Perkins on guitar, Billy
Preston on piano, Ollie Brown on percussion; backing track recorded on the 25th
March, Black And Blue-version
- Hey Negrita I (MJ/KR) -RW on guitar; early version
- Hey Negrita II (MJ/KR) - RW on guitar and backing vocals, Billy Preston on organ,
piano and backing vocals; recorded on the 2nd April, Black And Blue-version
- Hot Stuff I (MJ/KR) -; STU and Ollie Brown on percussion, Harvey Mandel on
guitar, Billy Preston on piano; instrumental backing track
- Hot Stuff II (MJ/KR) - RW on backing vocals, STU and Ollie Brown on percussion,
Harvey Mandel on guitar, Billy Preston on piano; backing track recorded on the
30th March, Black And Blue-version
- I Love Ladies (MJ/KR)
- Memory Motel I (MJ/KR) - Wayne Perkins and Harvey Mandel on guitars,
Billy Preston on synthesizer; instrumental, lacking some overdubs
- Memory Motel II (MJ/KR) - RW on backing vocals, Wayne Perkins and Harvey
Mandel on guitars, Billy Preston on synthesizer and backing vocals; backing track
recorded on the 31st March, Black And Blue-version
- Munich Reggae (MJ/KR)
- Start Me Up I (MJ/KR) -Reggae-version, under title Never Stop
Note: Some overdubs by RW were done in December 1975, some overdubs by Billy
Preston and Ollie E. Brown were done in October 1975.

Hey Glam Descendant, a ridiculously sweeping statement would have been if I said "Charlie Watts is the only individual in their circle to take accountability for his his substance abuse problems" as a definitive statement. I said he may be, that's far from a generalization. I welcome your information that Mr. Taylor has always owned up to his own mistakes, its just a pity so many of his fans think he should use others as an excuse.

Thanks, skipstone. Indeed SMU started life as a reggae track in '75. I have a copy somewhere. And it's very similar, if not the same as, the soundtrack behind that backstage '81 clip that someone posted recently.

I meant to type timbre....

It's very obvious it's pre-SG just by listening to the drums - the tone, overall. Just like you can tell Tops is from the GHS sessions. Even Keith has said, quite a few times, that it was done 5 years prior to TY. Sure, Mick may have added to it but that bottom, it's Black And Blue era.

Quote
skipstone
Ummmm.....

First off, if you listen to Start Me Up, it does not have the same cymbals or drum sounds as Some Girls - tibre wise or, in particular, one certain cymbal wise. Second...

Sorry, I disagree. First, the only claim for SMU being from '75 is from bootleggers, who released vinyl boots with mixes of '75 to '79 recordings. These bootleggers claimed SMU was from '75.

Second, Chris Kimsey was the one who recorded all the takes of SMU, including the reggea version, and he was the one who went through all the tapes and find the basic track for the later released version. Kimsey claims that all version were from Pathe Marconi, early 1978.

Last, on all versions known of this song you can hear the Kimsey/Pathe Marconi production: the cracking snare (not the '75 sound of Charlie), the dry kick, the new China symbol Charlie started using in '77, Bill's Travis Bean bass, and most important: Keith's guitar is that Mesa/Boogie Mk I sound, so typical for '77 to '81 recordings by Kimsey.

Mathijs

I agree with Mathijs, ever since first hearing Never Stop; I thought it was from 77-78, not 1975 - soundwise and moodwise; it's doesn't sound like the Black & Blue sessions

the wayne perkins solo on Hand Of Fate is one of the best on any Stones studio album IMO