Tell Me :
Talk
ROFLMAO, you've never listen to "Nowhere Man, In My Life, Happiness is a Warm Gun or Twist & Shout" then, some of the MOST Powerful Rock Vocals Ever, EVER
It was #12 in England and stayed on the charts 16 weeks.
Sure Ive heard almost every Lennon song on every street corner,and one thing we share: Ive laughed my ***
out too.
i agree that paul mccartney is very underrated but john surely is not overrated and surely a genius.
that hippie and peace thing also irritates me but he still was just awesome.
and please show me a songwriter like john lennon on any corner.
Paul was the guy who came up with the intersting chord progressions,
To me he was the genius,he came up with all those nice diminished,augmented an minor 6 and 7 chords, the strength of the beatles music imo.Lennon nor Harrison (maybe) could play one of those ,let alone compose on that level.
The way
Lennon played the guitar and sung ..come and visit Amsterdam or NY and open your ears.., you'll find out.But not everybody is lucky..and once more:nothing against Lennon as a human,he deserved his fame.
Enjoy his music.In the end it's a matter of taste...
Agreed, Paul is way more a musician than was John.
Maybe I'am only interested in harmonic density rather than songs, that's all.
George was the second Beatle to me,after Paul. And he could play the guitar!
agreed, I think Harrison is a very underrated songwriter, many of those songs you listed were every bit as good as Lennon/Macca ones from the same period.
ok, i take it back then. those songs are indeed fantastic. but still john and paul i would rate higher.
I would say: half a genius, and I consider George as the nicest guy of them all.
But it's funny, 'quarelling' about the fab four here, who's better than who etc.
The big difference between Beatles and Stones: Beatles primarily a pop-band, Stones primarily a rock/blues-band. But both did also a bit of what the other did.
My dear Amsterdamned, we were almost married, but I'm glad it didn't really happen
Concerning the Stones I almost always agree with you and I appreciate your posts very much, but I really can't follow you concerning Lennon.
Lennon obviously had a big mother-complex (Ono was his surrogate mother in anothte sense rather than his wife/lover) and I never considered him as a nice person, at least that's my impression, because I never met the man. I also didn't have any sympathy for the man's hair- and bedpeace nonsense in the Hilton Hotel in Amsterdam. Just cheap in my now (since Behroez has corrected me) HUMBLE opinion. I also don't feel any sympathy to Paul, he's too corny and has nothing to say. But they are/were songwriters and musicians. So let's judge them as such.
John: a very limited guitar player, able to use more instruments (piano), but no instrumentalist. Just a songwriter.
Paul: just another bassist, and prominent to hear because he was a topdog in the band. But also mainly a songwriter.
Now take a listen to these two songs:
- Penny Lane
- Strawberry fields
My pick would be Strawberry fields, way more intrigueing. Paul's compositions are mostly middle of the road songs (on SGT. Pepper for instance).
But come on guys, let's leave the Beatles alone. They're history (oeps, the Stones nearly or totally too). But to Get back (little joke) to the topic:
it's obvious to me that Jagger had great respect for John and didn't show his usual arrogance he had in those days when he was in his company. Refreshing and funny to see. The other side of 'big mouth'.
I think we better don't use the word 'genius' too easily. How many geniuses do we have then in pop music? In classical music only about three (Bach, Mozart and Schubert). In pop music tens or hundreds? I guess not.
I meant: bassists are necessary, though not decisive. He may be a wonderful bassist, I don't know, but even if so, then it's not that important to the music.
+1, very important bassist. everybody copies him once in a while, still today.
how many bassist have a hofner bass? without paul no one would.
Well you gave me the slight impression that you know me..
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
mickschix
()
Date: February 6, 2010 23:54
I'm glass that SWISS and WHITEM8 have also heard of this...thanks for the back-up, mates!
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: February 7, 2010 01:21
I feel sorry Lennon was shot, please don't misunderstand me..
But as a musician to me he was just one of those many overrated singer songwriters with a hippy message playing three chords you find on every corner of the street. mc Cartney was the musical and harmonic brain behind the the Beatles,
Jagger was 50% of the Stones.
I'am talking about Jagger-Lennon and their impact on the Stones and the Beatles.I cannot see why Keith admired Lennon as a musician.Once more,as a human being:nothing
wrong about John.
But as a musician to me he was just one of those many overrated singer songwriters with a hippy message playing three chords you find on every corner of the street. mc Cartney was the musical and harmonic brain behind the the Beatles,
Jagger was 50% of the Stones.
I'am talking about Jagger-Lennon and their impact on the Stones and the Beatles.I cannot see why Keith admired Lennon as a musician.Once more,as a human being:nothing
wrong about John.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
gripweed
()
Date: February 7, 2010 02:35
Quote
Amsterdamned
I feel sorry Lennon was shot, please don't misunderstand me..
But as a musician to me he was just one of those many overrated singer songwriters with a hippy message playing three chords you find on every corner of the street.
ROFLMAO, you've never listen to "Nowhere Man, In My Life, Happiness is a Warm Gun or Twist & Shout" then, some of the MOST Powerful Rock Vocals Ever, EVER
Re: The Department of Historical Accuracy
Posted by:
fuwa
()
Date: February 7, 2010 05:46
Quote
with sssoulQuote
behroez
[I Wanna Be Your Man] passed by the rest of the world totally unnoticed, in the rest of the world
people had never heard of it untill it was released as a kind of obscure curiosa on compilation albums.
er ... it was released in the US as the b-side to Not Fade Away in march 1964,
and it definitely didn't go "unnoticed".
It was #12 in England and stayed on the charts 16 weeks.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: February 7, 2010 12:29
Quote
gripweedQuote
Amsterdamned
I feel sorry Lennon was shot, please don't misunderstand me..
But as a musician to me he was just one of those many overrated singer songwriters with a hippy message playing three chords you find on every corner of the street.
ROFLMAO, you've never listen to "Nowhere Man, In My Life, Happiness is a Warm Gun or Twist & Shout" then, some of the MOST Powerful Rock Vocals Ever, EVER
Sure Ive heard almost every Lennon song on every street corner,and one thing we share: Ive laughed my ***
out too.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: February 7, 2010 14:12
Quote
Amsterdamned
I feel sorry Lennon was shot, please don't misunderstand me..
But as a musician to me he was just one of those many overrated singer songwriters with a hippy message playing three chords you find on every corner of the street. mc Cartney was the musical and harmonic brain behind the the Beatles,
Jagger was 50% of the Stones.
I'am talking about Jagger-Lennon and their impact on the Stones and the Beatles.I cannot see why Keith admired Lennon as a musician.Once more,as a human being:nothing
wrong about John.
i agree that paul mccartney is very underrated but john surely is not overrated and surely a genius.
that hippie and peace thing also irritates me but he still was just awesome.
and please show me a songwriter like john lennon on any corner.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: February 7, 2010 14:50
Quote
stoneswashed77Quote
Amsterdamned
I feel sorry Lennon was shot, please don't misunderstand me..
But as a musician to me he was just one of those many overrated singer songwriters with a hippy message playing three chords you find on every corner of the street. mc Cartney was the musical and harmonic brain behind the the Beatles,
Jagger was 50% of the Stones.
I'am talking about Jagger-Lennon and their impact on the Stones and the Beatles.I cannot see why Keith admired Lennon as a musician.Once more,as a human being:nothing
wrong about John.
i agree that paul mccartney is very underrated but john surely is not overrated and surely a genius.
that hippie and peace thing also irritates me but he still was just awesome.
and please show me a songwriter like john lennon on any corner.
Paul was the guy who came up with the intersting chord progressions,
To me he was the genius,he came up with all those nice diminished,augmented an minor 6 and 7 chords, the strength of the beatles music imo.Lennon nor Harrison (maybe) could play one of those ,let alone compose on that level.
The way
Lennon played the guitar and sung ..come and visit Amsterdam or NY and open your ears.., you'll find out.But not everybody is lucky..and once more:nothing against Lennon as a human,he deserved his fame.
Enjoy his music.In the end it's a matter of taste...
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: February 7, 2010 16:34
of course paul mccartney is way more a musician than was john.
but you can write 10 min songs containing no more than one chord and still be genius.
in art it is the idea that counts. there are many who can cover beatles songs really well. but who can write those tunes as well. i would say no one.
but you can write 10 min songs containing no more than one chord and still be genius.
in art it is the idea that counts. there are many who can cover beatles songs really well. but who can write those tunes as well. i would say no one.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
mickschix
()
Date: February 7, 2010 18:39
John's anger over his mother's untimely death was a real source of his creativity and you can hear it in his voice. ( Of course MOTHER is the best example) I don't think that you can minimize his genius, that's just my opinion. His wit was unsurpassed...that cutting ironic edginess was unique and that pure rock voice...there was no one like Lennon. Paul perhaps played more instruments than John and had a more universal appeal, some call his music pop. Again, two different huge talents and I would have to say EQUALLY talented yet very different styles. I totally disagree with the statement that you can find a talent like John on any street corner in Amsterdam. If that were the case, we'd see more artists going global that came from Amsterdam.
I agree with you STONEWASHED! You just cannot say John was over-rated, IMO.
I agree with you STONEWASHED! You just cannot say John was over-rated, IMO.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: February 7, 2010 18:54
Quote
stoneswashed77
of course paul mccartney is way more a musician than was john.
but you can write 10 min songs containing no more than one chord and still be genius.
in art it is the idea that counts. there are many who can cover beatles songs really well. but who can write those tunes as well. i would say no one.
Agreed, Paul is way more a musician than was John.
Maybe I'am only interested in harmonic density rather than songs, that's all.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Rocknroll1969
()
Date: February 7, 2010 19:11
Both Lennon and McCartney wrote some songs with very Interesting chord changes.
If you want to talk about 3 chords songs, The Stones have the Most 3 chord songs but most of them are Great 3 chord songs.
If you want to talk about 3 chords songs, The Stones have the Most 3 chord songs but most of them are Great 3 chord songs.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
kingkirby
()
Date: February 7, 2010 22:07
The debate about who's a bigger genius: Lennon or McCartney is unwinnable, surely...
Ultimately the power of the Beatles was having three genuine musical geniuses in one band - egging each other on, working on each other's songs, pushing the finished product to a place none of them could have got to alone.
Although there are many great moments in George, John & Pauls' Solo work, there'll never be anything to match what they did together...
Ultimately the power of the Beatles was having three genuine musical geniuses in one band - egging each other on, working on each other's songs, pushing the finished product to a place none of them could have got to alone.
Although there are many great moments in George, John & Pauls' Solo work, there'll never be anything to match what they did together...
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: February 7, 2010 23:22
i said something similar in another thread.
i think the beatles had 2 and 1/2 genius musicians.
guess who i consider only half.
i think the beatles had 2 and 1/2 genius musicians.
guess who i consider only half.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: February 8, 2010 03:48
Quote
mickschix
I'm glass that SWISS and WHITEM8 have also heard of this...thanks for the back-up, mates![/quote/]
Actually, I am a psychologist, and one of my areas of study is sexuality. There are ample reading opportunities, and film, that dwelve into the issue of boarding schools and sexuality. It is interesting to note that Kim Philby and his compatriots who were double agents were products of English boarding schools and the controversy of their homosexuality. A great movie about this is Another Country. Very thought provoking.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
kingkirby
()
Date: February 8, 2010 13:23
Stonewashed, are you only marking George as half a genius? Look at the Beatles songs he wrote:
I Need You
If I Needed Someone
Love You To
Taxman
Only A Northern Song
Within You Without You
It's All Too Much
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Savoy Truffle
Something
Here Comes The Sun
If he'd written all those with another band, we'd rate them as one of the best of the era...
I Need You
If I Needed Someone
Love You To
Taxman
Only A Northern Song
Within You Without You
It's All Too Much
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Savoy Truffle
Something
Here Comes The Sun
If he'd written all those with another band, we'd rate them as one of the best of the era...
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: February 8, 2010 13:42
Quote
kingkirby
Stonewashed, are you only marking George as half a genius? Look at the Beatles songs he wrote:
I Need You
If I Needed Someone
Love You To
Taxman
Only A Northern Song
Within You Without You
It's All Too Much
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Savoy Truffle
Something
Here Comes The Sun
If he'd written all those with another band, we'd rate them as one of the best of the era...
George was the second Beatle to me,after Paul. And he could play the guitar!
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Ket
()
Date: February 8, 2010 13:48
Quote
kingkirby
Stonewashed, are you only marking George as half a genius? Look at the Beatles songs he wrote:
I Need You
If I Needed Someone
Love You To
Taxman
Only A Northern Song
Within You Without You
It's All Too Much
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Savoy Truffle
Something
Here Comes The Sun
If he'd written all those with another band, we'd rate them as one of the best of the era...
agreed, I think Harrison is a very underrated songwriter, many of those songs you listed were every bit as good as Lennon/Macca ones from the same period.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 8, 2010 13:51
Only a genius can write a song like Strawberry Fields forever, imo. There are even more than one chord in there, too
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: February 8, 2010 16:08
Quote
kingkirby
Stonewashed, are you only marking George as half a genius? Look at the Beatles songs he wrote:
I Need You
If I Needed Someone
Love You To
Taxman
Only A Northern Song
Within You Without You
It's All Too Much
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Savoy Truffle
Something
Here Comes The Sun
If he'd written all those with another band, we'd rate them as one of the best of the era...
ok, i take it back then. those songs are indeed fantastic. but still john and paul i would rate higher.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: February 8, 2010 18:42
Quote
stoneswashed77Quote
kingkirby
Stonewashed, are you only marking George as half a genius? Look at the Beatles songs he wrote:
I Need You
If I Needed Someone
Love You To
Taxman
Only A Northern Song
Within You Without You
It's All Too Much
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Savoy Truffle
Something
Here Comes The Sun
If he'd written all those with another band, we'd rate them as one of the best of the era...
ok, i take it back then. those songs are indeed fantastic. but still john and paul i would rate higher.
I would say: half a genius, and I consider George as the nicest guy of them all.
But it's funny, 'quarelling' about the fab four here, who's better than who etc.
The big difference between Beatles and Stones: Beatles primarily a pop-band, Stones primarily a rock/blues-band. But both did also a bit of what the other did.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
bernardanderson
()
Date: February 8, 2010 18:57
but could john have written that song without the assistance of mind-altering drugs? hmm...Quote
DandelionPowderman
Only a genius can write a song like Strawberry Fields forever, imo.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: February 8, 2010 19:00
Quote
AmsterdamnedQuote
kingkirby
Stonewashed, are you only marking George as half a genius? Look at the Beatles songs he wrote:
I Need You
If I Needed Someone
Love You To
Taxman
Only A Northern Song
Within You Without You
It's All Too Much
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Savoy Truffle
Something
Here Comes The Sun
If he'd written all those with another band, we'd rate them as one of the best of the era...
George was the second Beatle to me,after Paul. And he could play the guitar!
My dear Amsterdamned, we were almost married, but I'm glad it didn't really happen
Concerning the Stones I almost always agree with you and I appreciate your posts very much, but I really can't follow you concerning Lennon.
Lennon obviously had a big mother-complex (Ono was his surrogate mother in anothte sense rather than his wife/lover) and I never considered him as a nice person, at least that's my impression, because I never met the man. I also didn't have any sympathy for the man's hair- and bedpeace nonsense in the Hilton Hotel in Amsterdam. Just cheap in my now (since Behroez has corrected me) HUMBLE opinion. I also don't feel any sympathy to Paul, he's too corny and has nothing to say. But they are/were songwriters and musicians. So let's judge them as such.
John: a very limited guitar player, able to use more instruments (piano), but no instrumentalist. Just a songwriter.
Paul: just another bassist, and prominent to hear because he was a topdog in the band. But also mainly a songwriter.
Now take a listen to these two songs:
- Penny Lane
- Strawberry fields
My pick would be Strawberry fields, way more intrigueing. Paul's compositions are mostly middle of the road songs (on SGT. Pepper for instance).
But come on guys, let's leave the Beatles alone. They're history (oeps, the Stones nearly or totally too
). But to Get back (little joke) to the topic:it's obvious to me that Jagger had great respect for John and didn't show his usual arrogance he had in those days when he was in his company. Refreshing and funny to see. The other side of 'big mouth'.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
mickschix
()
Date: February 8, 2010 19:19
Gee, could the 1/2 a genius be GEORGE HARRISON?? I think he has earned himself the genius status. He was way under-rated!!! All Things Must Pass is a materpiece, IMO.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: February 8, 2010 19:34
Quote
mickschix
Gee, could the 1/2 a genius be GEORGE HARRISON?? I think he has earned himself the genius status. He was way under-rated!!! All Things Must Pass is a materpiece, IMO.
I think we better don't use the word 'genius' too easily. How many geniuses do we have then in pop music? In classical music only about three (Bach, Mozart and Schubert). In pop music tens or hundreds? I guess not.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
bernardanderson
()
Date: February 8, 2010 19:38
whoa. paul is "just another bassist"?!!? that is ridiculous. he wrote some really creative and brilliant bass parts. very melodic. i would argue that bill wyman was "just another bassist". but paul? give me a break.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: February 8, 2010 19:44
Quote
bernardanderson
whoa. paul is "just another bassist"?!!? that is ridiculous. he wrote some really creative and brilliant bass parts. very melodic. i would argue that bill wyman was "just another bassist". but paul? give me a break.
I meant: bassists are necessary, though not decisive. He may be a wonderful bassist, I don't know, but even if so, then it's not that important to the music.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: February 8, 2010 19:45
Quote
bernardanderson
whoa. paul is "just another bassist"?!!? that is ridiculous. he wrote some really creative and brilliant bass parts. very melodic. i would argue that bill wyman was "just another bassist". but paul? give me a break.
+1, very important bassist. everybody copies him once in a while, still today.
how many bassist have a hofner bass? without paul no one would.
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: February 8, 2010 22:10
"My dear Amsterdamned, we were almost married, but I'm glad it didn't really happenConcerning the Stones I almost always agree with you and I appreciate your posts very much, but I really can't follow you concerning Lennon."_Kleermaker-
I am not concerning Lennon,
All I want to say is that I don't like his voice & guitar playing.You can here the difference between Paul's compositional share and Lennon's as far as the Beatles are concerned.I prefer Paul's,that's all!
And maybe I'am spoiled,I prefer players like mc Laughlin and Holdsworth.
Let everybody enjoy Lennon !
btw,Who the devil are you??
I am not concerning Lennon,
All I want to say is that I don't like his voice & guitar playing.You can here the difference between Paul's compositional share and Lennon's as far as the Beatles are concerned.I prefer Paul's,that's all!
And maybe I'am spoiled,I prefer players like mc Laughlin and Holdsworth.
Let everybody enjoy Lennon !
btw,Who the devil are you??
Re: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: February 8, 2010 23:33
"but I really can't follow you concerning Lennon." quote kleermaker
"I am not concerning Lennon" quote Amsterdamned
Here we have a language misunderstanding! I meant "as for/as to" were I said "concerning".
"btw,Who the devil are you??" quote Amsterdamned
But Amsterdamned, I also don't know who you are! Most of us here don't know each other I guess. Why are you asking that? I'm just an ordinary guy who likes the music of the Stones and saw them three times (73 when I was a teenager, 76, 82), so I'm just an aging fool, that's all
. No need to say that I like the Taylor-era most
"I am not concerning Lennon" quote Amsterdamned
Here we have a language misunderstanding! I meant "as for/as to" were I said "concerning".
"btw,Who the devil are you??" quote Amsterdamned
But Amsterdamned, I also don't know who you are! Most of us here don't know each other I guess. Why are you asking that? I'm just an ordinary guy who likes the music of the Stones and saw them three times (73 when I was a teenager, 76, 82), so I'm just an aging fool, that's all
. No need to say that I like the Taylor-era mostRe: JAGGER-LENNON relationship
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: February 8, 2010 23:55
Quote
kleermaker
"
"btw,Who the devil are you??" quote Amsterdamned
But Amsterdamned, I also don't know who you are! Most of us here don't know each other I guess. Why are you asking that?
Well you gave me the slight impression that you know me..
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