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phd
The only mistake Taylor made was to leave.
Kerist!!I wouldnt want to be in a studio with you all night,plus a few other "Technical style playing" posts in this thread,I would put my boot into the amp after an hour and go and get drunk.Quote
otonneau
Another point: I cannot agree that Taylor is a soloist in the jazz tradition. To me, what defines a jazzman is primarily his ability to play with the bars (I don't really know how to say this in English); not to have every solo phrase start on the 1st time and finish on the 6th or 8th. That kind of rhythmic stiffness is why eventually I get bored with rock music and especially rock soloists in general. Well I find it very very rare for Taylor to take any freedom at all with rhythmic patterns. So he remains a blues/rock player and nothing else for me, no matter how long and "lyrical" his phrases may be. On the other hand, Wood is fantastically agile in the way he works around the rhythmic structure - and again, the jazziest moment of the Stones' history for me is the interplay between the guitars in beast of Burden.
Ronnie is WAY under weight,he is not in shape,he looks painfully thin!!Jagger is what you call thin but in good shape.Quote
windmelody
Does anybody know what kind of sports Ronnie wood does? He must do something, because he his figure is really in shape.I do not want to become to shallow, but Wood's look fits into the Stones, as Charlie Watts recently pointed out.
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Mathijs
Taylor was a fantastic lead guitarist and a pretty bad rhythm player, Wood was a good lead guitarist and a great rythm player. Taylor is not a composer, Wood wrote some great tracks, including the best post-Exile Stones album of the '70's with I've Got My Own Album to Do. With Wood the Stones became a much better band, with Charlie peaking in '75 and Bill in '81. With Taylor the Stones would not have survived the punk explosion. Taylor can't sing, Wood was a great singer. Taylor has become a fat drunk and Wood still looks like a true R&R outlaw.
When the Stones picked Taylor they could have pickid from a list of Great Blues Lead Guitarists. And all these guitarists would have played some great solo's on Sway and CYHMK, Exile would have been Exile, and the '72 tour would have been no different at all.
With Wood, they only could pick him as he is a true Rolling Stone. And that's what makes him special.
Mathijs
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MARSBAR
This is going nowhere!!Forget personalities,who fitted in,who is a real Rolling Stone type guitarist,who wrote songs,who can sing or not....IF it all comes down to who,out of Keith,Ronnie or Taylor who is by far....and I mean by far the tastier, more skilled,technically light years ahead player its Taylor.This is a fact and nothing to do with all of the above except the skill,and im positive,absolutly positive Ronnie and Keith would agree.
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Mathijs
"Taylor was a fantastic lead guitarist and a pretty bad rhythm player, Wood was a good lead guitarist and a great rythm player. Taylor is not a composer, Wood wrote some great tracks, including the best post-Exile Stones album of the '70's with I've Got My Own Album to D0."
Taylor was and is a great lead guitarist and a very very good rhytym player. Wood at best is "competent" but one of the most uninteresting guitarists around. Taylor may not have composed much since leaving the Stones, but in the context of the Stones, he co-wrote an album's worth of great songs. That list (Winter, Moonlight Mile, Sway, Hide your Love, 100 years ago...) would iself make one of the great albums by the Rolling Stones.
"With Wood the Stones became a much better band,"
NO..absolutely NOT..this is quite absurd. I like a lot of the post 75 work but it is quite obvious to anyone that the only reason the Stones deserve the title of the Worlds greatest Rock n Roll band is becasue of their output from 68-73. Nothing else truly matters.
"With Taylor the Stones would not have survived the punk explosion."
Correct. The Stones survived becsause of Ron Wood; but they became a worse band for it. Keith became a lazier guitarist because of it. Taylor not only pushed Richards but he also motivated Jagger to write a different type of Stones song and extended Jagger's vocal range.
"Taylor can't sing, Wood was a great singer."
Great... seriously...and in the context of the Stones who gives a damn whether Wood or Taylor could sing?
"Taylor has become a fat drunk and Wood still looks like a true R&R outlaw."
You hit the nail on the head.. Wood "looks" like a R&R outlaw. Instead of a fat drunk, Ronnie is is a thin drunk joker.
"When the Stones picked Taylor they could have pickid from a list of Great Blues Lead Guitarists. And all these guitarists would have played some great solo's on Sway and CYHMK, Exile would have been Exile, and the '72 tour would have been no different at all."
Perhaps true -- but equally true of Ronnie Wood -- If the Stones had picked any other guitarist, then Black and Blue would be the same, as would Some Girls and ER and Tattoo you and Undercover and Dirty Work. Ronnie looked looked Keith's long lost twin...thats its.
"With Wood, they only could pick him as he is a true Rolling Stone. And that's what makes him special."
If clowing around the stage, posing for mug shots and blowing smoke rings in the air with Keith is what it takes to be a true Rolling Stone, then Ronnie is "the man".
There is nothing special in terms of Ronnie Wood. What is amazing is how "not special" his guitar playing and musicianship are. The only thing unique about Ronnie Wood is that he always did and continues to look the part.
The Stones needed a competent guitarist that looked that part, would not overshadow Keith and just play along. The got Ronnie. He saved the Stones. The Stones brought out the worst in Ronnie Wood and Wood brought out the worst of the Stones. The Stones image was always important; in picking Ronnie Wood, the Stones signaled that image mattered more than the music.
The Stones were good for Taylor. Taylor was good for the Stones. Sadly neither realized it at that time.
Nothing to do with LEAD playing..just a more skilled player,nothing to do with YAsYas or any albums or whatever,forget analyzing everything Im talking in just plain skill as a guitarist,c'mon!!! They both have long experience playing..I bet any rock guitarist if asked the question who is the more skilled player would answer Taylor.Quote
otonneauQuote
MARSBAR
This is going nowhere!!Forget personalities,who fitted in,who is a real Rolling Stone type guitarist,who wrote songs,who can sing or not....IF it all comes down to who,out of Keith,Ronnie or Taylor who is by far....and I mean by far the tastier, more skilled,technically light years ahead player its Taylor.This is a fact and nothing to do with all of the above except the skill,and im positive,absolutly positive Ronnie and Keith would agree.
Well i don't think it's a fact at all. I think it just says something about your conception of a lead guitarist. Or maybe it's just that there is a conception of LEAD playing that I find musically uninteresting.
If you have a conception of a "lead" guitarist as someone who provides melodic work integrated to the work of the group, then Taylor is at times excellent, (as exemplified by Ya Ya where his work is amazing), but too often he drifts away on his own path and then I couldn't care less how many notes he strings together. On the other hand, Wood is sometimes (not always!) an amazing team player.
I could say that both Ronnie and Taylor have exceptional moments of interaction with keith, but Taylor sometimes drifts into an annoying isolation, and Ronnie often degenerates into complete nonsense. I would never deny that while Ronnie is often horrid, Taylor never was (although based on some videos posted here he can be nowadays): so there was a reliability that Taylor had and Ronnie doesn't. But that does not make me conclude that Taylor's peak moments are better than those of Ronnie, and as a matter of fact there are Ronnie moments that I prefer over anything Taylor ever did.
Taylor wouldnt have to listen to his partners,they would have to listen to him,I wouldnt say Woods or Taylor are musically interesting,but I bet if both players played with other top musicians in any music format you want Taylor would be perfectly comfortable and much more noticable than Ronnie on stage playing wise.(Except slide guitar of course)Quote
otonneau
But... only in such a narrow sense of 'skills' that it does not matter. For instance, if you think of jazz musicians, many many trumpet players are more skilled than Miles Davis (they can play faster, go higher and lower and have a more even tone, etc) but they are not as musically interesting as him. Taylor is more skilled than Wood, in the same sense that Sam Cooke is more skilled than Jagger or Philly Jo Jones than Watts, but that's far from essential, don't you think? Especially in rock.
Everybody would agree with you on the strictly technical level; but I bet I would not be alone in saying that musically, Wood's idiosyncracies, versatility and amazing capacity to listen to his partners make him a more interesting musician than Taylor, who ranks perhaps in the top 10 of the standard guitar hero classification. And it is all the more sad that Woody, because of other issues, has so rarely fully exploited his musical gifts.
Ill buy you a drink at the next concert><Quote
otonneau
I think we understand each other well and value different things: you say that Taylor's partners would have to listen to him rather than the contrary - well exactly! That's a flaw in my book, although i can understand it's a strength in yours. To each his own!
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otonneau
But... only in such a narrow sense of 'skills' that it does not matter. For instance, if you think of jazz musicians, many many trumpet players are more skilled than Miles Davis (they can play faster, go higher and lower and have a more even tone, etc) but they are not as musically interesting as him. Taylor is more skilled than Wood, in the same sense that Sam Cooke is more skilled than Jagger or Philly Jo Jones than Watts, but that's far from essential, don't you think? Especially in rock.
Everybody would agree with you on the strictly technical level; but I bet I would not be alone in saying that musically, Wood's idiosyncracies, versatility and amazing capacity to listen to his partners make him a more interesting musician than Taylor, who ranks perhaps in the top 10 of the standard guitar hero classification. And it is all the more sad that Woody, because of other issues, has so rarely fully exploited his musical gifts.
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wanderingspirit66
I like a lot of the post 75 work but it is quite obvious to anyone that the only reason the Stones deserve the title of the Worlds greatest Rock n Roll band is becasue of their output from 68-73. Nothing else truly matters.
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wanderingspirit66
The Stones brought out the worst in Ronnie Wood and Wood brought out the worst of the Stones.
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Mathijs
Taylor was a fantastic lead guitarist and a pretty bad rhythm player
Mathijs
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Mathijs
Taylor was a fantastic lead guitarist and a pretty bad rhythm player, Wood was a good lead guitarist and a great rythm player. Taylor is not a composer, Wood wrote some great tracks, including the best post-Exile Stones album of the '70's with I've Got My Own Album to Do. With Wood the Stones became a much better band, with Charlie peaking in '75 and Bill in '81. With Taylor the Stones would not have survived the punk explosion. Taylor can't sing, Wood was a great singer. Taylor has become a fat drunk and Wood still looks like a true R&R outlaw.
When the Stones picked Taylor they could have pickid from a list of Great Blues Lead Guitarists. And all these guitarists would have played some great solo's on Sway and CYHMK, Exile would have been Exile, and the '72 tour would have been no different at all.
With Wood, they only could pick him as he is a true Rolling Stone. And that's what makes him special.
Mathijs
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wanderingspirit66
The Stones were good for Taylor. Taylor was good for the Stones. Sadly neither realized it at that time.
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AmsterdamnedQuote
wanderingspirit66
The Stones were good for Taylor. Taylor was good for the Stones. Sadly neither realized it at that time.
I think Jagger and Richards realized it.. Keih was very angry when Taylor left while Jagger tried to persuade Taylor to stay...
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otonneau
I think we understand each other well and value different things: you say that Taylor's partners would have to listen to him rather than the contrary - well exactly! That's a flaw in my book, although i can understand it's a strength in yours. To each his own!
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ablett
Boring boring boring, this stuff is killing a once great board. Over taken with a few obsessed with the past. Taylor left over 30 years ago, has never expressed a desire to return so move on and grow up.....
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AmsterdamnedQuote
ablett
Boring boring boring, this stuff is killing a once great board. Over taken with a few obsessed with the past. Taylor left over 30 years ago, has never expressed a desire to return so move on and grow up.....
Boring?? The Taylor-Wood discussions evoke the most passionate posts on iorr.org.