Tell Me :
Talk
Not sure about this. Did he really fire his top-notch band, or did he simply have TWO separate bands; one band for recording and a completely different bunch of guys that he toured with? I saw him twice; Nov. 1980 and Oct. 1981. On both occasions it was the "relative hacks" that he played with, but don't the "top notch" guys play on his final album, 1981's "King Bee?" I'd like more information on this if you can provide it. On a related note, I attended a show in 1984 by "The Legendary Blues Band". These were the "top-notch" guys who played on Muddy's latter-day albums, not the guys I had seen him play with. Why they didn't just call themselves "The Muddy Waters Band" I'll never know (unless someone can tell me). They only sold about 30 tickets. I'm sure they could have sold a few more if they had used Muddy's name.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-21 02:18 by tatters.
A great version, yes!
Anyone know if there is a video version of this song he did with Mike Bloomfield which appears on the Muddy vs. the Wolf CD?
Wikipedia says Muddy was playing fewer gigs because of poor health. In order to make up for their lost earnings, the band wanted to be paid more for each of the few gigs that they did play. Muddy refused, so the enitre band QUIT. Not sure if that's the TRUE story, but somehow, it makes more sense, and seems more likely, than the idea of Muddy FIRING the entire band.
The funny thing is, that if you take a look at Muddy's tour history at muddywaters.com, it appears that he toured almost CONSTANTLY, right through to the end of 1981, so the Wiki story about "fewer gigs" doesn't seem to make any sense.
[www.muddywaters.com]
I don't know. Would you fire a valued employee because he asked for a raise?, or would your valued employee quit because he asked for a raise and you refused to give him one? Which of these two scenarios seems more likely?
This one?
Pinetop: Hey, Mud. Me and the guys been talking. We got bills to pay. We're gonna need a little more cash.
Muddy: Sorry, man. Can't do it.
Pinetop: Okay. I see how it is. We do all the work. We're onstage for the full 90 minutes. You come out and join us for THIRTY minutes. Act like a guest star at your own concert, and you won't give us a raise? @#$%& you, man. I quit. We ALL quit!
Or this one?
Pinetop: Hey, Mud. Me and the guys been talking. We got bills to pay. We're gonna need a little more cash.
Muddy: You ungrateful son of a bitch! Get the @#$%& out of my sight! You're fired! You're ALL fired!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-21 16:37 by tatters.
that one
if you saw him with margolin, then you saw the other great players with him: luther, pinetop, big eyes, fuzz jones, etc...
muddy and johnny did some great stuff together in that era...a collection of studio outtakes from some of those sessions was recently released....not quite up to snuff with the best two studio releases from that period (hard again & i'm ready), but still worth checking out....
many imitators - including his adopted son, johnny winter - but nobody has ever quite matched that tone - he pretty much played the same licks on all the same slow blues tunes, but each one had its own personality....check out "Howlin' Wolf" from "Muddy Mississippi Waters Live" - especially the second 12 bars, when he cranks it up a notch - if that don't raise the hair on the nape of your neck, you are probably dead already....
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
Back Of My Palm
()
Date: January 20, 2010 17:45
Here is a goosebumper with the suggestive OH YEAH-magic we know from da' Rambler
Denmark 1968..
Denmark 1968..
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: January 21, 2010 02:15
Quote
T&AQuote
71TeleQuote
T&AQuote
71Tele
Fortunately I got to see Muddy from the right in front of the stage and got to meet him later. He was The Man, as far as I'm concerned.
got to see him "point blank" twice in his later years - the first one was the last tour before he fired his band....that show was one of my all-time faves, if not #1....
When was this T&A? Which band did he fire? I met him in the parking lot after the show. He was all by himself. He graciously accepted a cassette tape of one of my songs from me. He was a real gent, and that show changed my life. By theway, Sonny terry & Brownie McGee opened for him. They hated each other, and had their stools on complete opposite ends of the stage. But they were great!
he fired his top-notch band - pinetop, calvin jones, big eyes, bob margolin, jerry portnoy, luther johnson - in a fit of anger circa 1981...replaced them with a bunch of relative "hacks".
Not sure about this. Did he really fire his top-notch band, or did he simply have TWO separate bands; one band for recording and a completely different bunch of guys that he toured with? I saw him twice; Nov. 1980 and Oct. 1981. On both occasions it was the "relative hacks" that he played with, but don't the "top notch" guys play on his final album, 1981's "King Bee?" I'd like more information on this if you can provide it. On a related note, I attended a show in 1984 by "The Legendary Blues Band". These were the "top-notch" guys who played on Muddy's latter-day albums, not the guys I had seen him play with. Why they didn't just call themselves "The Muddy Waters Band" I'll never know (unless someone can tell me). They only sold about 30 tickets. I'm sure they could have sold a few more if they had used Muddy's name.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-21 02:18 by tatters.
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 21, 2010 03:01
he definitely fired them - it's well-documented in his biographies and whatnot. he fired them after king bee was recorded....
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 21, 2010 03:25
The first time I saw him he had Luther "Guitar Junior" Johnson on guitar (I stood right in front of his amp - treble turned all the way up, bass turned all the way down), Pinetop Perkins on piano, Jerry Portnoy on harmonica, Willie "Big Eyes" Smith on drums. Can't remember and bassist. The next time I saw him Johnson wasn't with him. I believe the band quit in a money dispute.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-21 03:41 by 71Tele.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-21 03:41 by 71Tele.
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
BluzDude
()
Date: January 21, 2010 04:13
Quote
Back Of My Palm
Here is a goosebumper with the suggestive OH YEAH-magic we know from da' Rambler
Denmark 1968..
A great version, yes!
Anyone know if there is a video version of this song he did with Mike Bloomfield which appears on the Muddy vs. the Wolf CD?
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: January 21, 2010 05:15
Quote
T&A
he definitely fired them - it's well-documented in his biographies and whatnot. he fired them after king bee was recorded....
Wikipedia says Muddy was playing fewer gigs because of poor health. In order to make up for their lost earnings, the band wanted to be paid more for each of the few gigs that they did play. Muddy refused, so the enitre band QUIT. Not sure if that's the TRUE story, but somehow, it makes more sense, and seems more likely, than the idea of Muddy FIRING the entire band.
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
texas fan
()
Date: January 21, 2010 05:27
Without looking it up, the bass player may have been Calvin Jones. I believe the guitarist I saw after Johnson was Bob Margolin, but that change was before '81 wasn't it?
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: January 21, 2010 05:31
Quote
tattersQuote
T&A
he definitely fired them - it's well-documented in his biographies and whatnot. he fired them after king bee was recorded....
Wikipedia says Muddy was playing fewer gigs because of poor health. In order to make up for their lost earnings, the band wanted to be paid more for each of the few gigs that they did play. Muddy refused, so the enitre band QUIT. Not sure if that's the TRUE story, but somehow, it makes more sense, and seems more likely, than the idea of Muddy FIRING the entire band.
The funny thing is, that if you take a look at Muddy's tour history at muddywaters.com, it appears that he toured almost CONSTANTLY, right through to the end of 1981, so the Wiki story about "fewer gigs" doesn't seem to make any sense.
[www.muddywaters.com]
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: January 21, 2010 15:57
he fired them according to all the accounts i've read - and, yeah, it was about money.....and, no i don't believe he had multiple touing outfits - he had a band that evolved slightly through the seventies...but then stay intact until the firing. that last band he toured with was just not very good....especially after seeing him with those "legendary" players....
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: January 21, 2010 16:35
Quote
StonesTod
he fired them according to all the accounts i've read - and, yeah, it was about money.....and, no i don't believe he had multiple touing outfits - he had a band that evolved slightly through the seventies...but then stay intact until the firing. that last band he toured with was just not very good....especially after seeing him with those "legendary" players....
I don't know. Would you fire a valued employee because he asked for a raise?, or would your valued employee quit because he asked for a raise and you refused to give him one? Which of these two scenarios seems more likely?
This one?
Pinetop: Hey, Mud. Me and the guys been talking. We got bills to pay. We're gonna need a little more cash.
Muddy: Sorry, man. Can't do it.
Pinetop: Okay. I see how it is. We do all the work. We're onstage for the full 90 minutes. You come out and join us for THIRTY minutes. Act like a guest star at your own concert, and you won't give us a raise? @#$%& you, man. I quit. We ALL quit!
Or this one?
Pinetop: Hey, Mud. Me and the guys been talking. We got bills to pay. We're gonna need a little more cash.
Muddy: You ungrateful son of a bitch! Get the @#$%& out of my sight! You're fired! You're ALL fired!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-21 16:37 by tatters.
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 21, 2010 17:12
Quote
tatters
Pinetop: Hey, Mud. Me and the guys been talking. We got bills to pay. We're gonna need a little more cash.
Muddy: You ungrateful son of a bitch! Get the @#$%& out of my sight! You're fired! You're ALL fired!
that one
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: January 21, 2010 17:32
i saw muddy waters at jb scotts it was 80 or 81 and the one band memeber that i rememeber was bob margolin on the guitar .oh by the way muddy was on fire that night .a memeory burned into my brain and soul .the blues done right by the master himself .i wish i could go back in a time machine circa 1977 to see muddy waters, james cotton, and johnny winter(which johnny winter produced himself and which johnny in addition to his six string wizardry and production skills is credited on the album for miscellaneous yelling) when the three of them toured in support of muddy's hard again (love that title) .man what a blast down memory lane thinking about this show 28 years ago
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-21 17:37 by The Greek.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-21 17:37 by The Greek.
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 21, 2010 17:41
Quote
The Greek
i saw muddy waters at jb scotts it was 80 or 81 and the one band memeber that i rememeber was bob margolin on the guitar .oh by the way muddy was on fire that night .a memeory burned into my brain and soul .the blues done right by the master himself .i wish i could go back in a time machine circa 1977 to see muddy waters, james cotton, and johnny winter(which johnny winter produced himself and which johnny in addition to his six string wizardry and production skills is credited on the album for miscellaneous yelling) when the three of them toured in support of muddy's hard again (love that title) .man what a blast down memory lane thinking about this show 28 years ago
if you saw him with margolin, then you saw the other great players with him: luther, pinetop, big eyes, fuzz jones, etc...
muddy and johnny did some great stuff together in that era...a collection of studio outtakes from some of those sessions was recently released....not quite up to snuff with the best two studio releases from that period (hard again & i'm ready), but still worth checking out....
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 21, 2010 17:48
There was nothing, and I mean nothing, I have ever seen like the sight of Muddy Waters standing directly in front of me wailing away with that little pinkie slide and a huge smile on his face. That sound. Shivers up my spine. I will take Muddy playing microtones on one string over all the blues virtuosos in the world any day.
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 21, 2010 17:51
Quote
71Tele
There was nothing, and I mean nothing, I have ever seen like the sight of Muddy Waters standing directly in front of me wailing away with that little pinkie slide and a huge smile on his face. That sound. Shivers up my spine. I will take Muddy playing microtones on one string over all the blues virtuosos in the world any day.
many imitators - including his adopted son, johnny winter - but nobody has ever quite matched that tone - he pretty much played the same licks on all the same slow blues tunes, but each one had its own personality....check out "Howlin' Wolf" from "Muddy Mississippi Waters Live" - especially the second 12 bars, when he cranks it up a notch - if that don't raise the hair on the nape of your neck, you are probably dead already....
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: January 21, 2010 18:01
Quote
T&AQuote
The Greek
i saw muddy waters at jb scotts it was 80 or 81 and the one band memeber that i rememeber was bob margolin on the guitar .oh by the way muddy was on fire that night .a memeory burned into my brain and soul .the blues done right by the master himself .i wish i could go back in a time machine circa 1977 to see muddy waters, james cotton, and johnny winter(which johnny winter produced himself and which johnny in addition to his six string wizardry and production skills is credited on the album for miscellaneous yelling) when the three of them toured in support of muddy's hard again (love that title) .man what a blast down memory lane thinking about this show 28 years ago
if you saw him with margolin, then you saw the other great players with him: luther, pinetop, big eyes, fuzz jones, etc... you know me i am a big guitar freak so i knew bob margolin and thought it was pinetop but i did not want to put my foot in my mouth so early in the morning . i did get to see pinetop with keef in 1988 at the brendan byrne arena also with waddy wachtel on the six string and it was keef birthday so we were hoping maybe mick or some other guests were gonna show which did not happen anyway but it was a great night of music
muddy and johnny did some great stuff together in that era...a collection of studio outtakes from some of those sessions was recently released....not quite up to snuff with the best two studio releases from that period (hard again & i'm ready), but still worth checking out....
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: April 4, 2010 16:32
Bump. Good thread about Muddy from a couple months ago.
Re: "OT": Muddy
Posted by:
inopeng
()
Date: April 4, 2010 17:32
I saw Muddy nine time in the two years or so before he died and one of the members of his last band was really cool and even gave me a few blues lessons at his house.
"Hacks" is a strong word to describe the last band, though there was a weak link musically - Lovie Lee the pianist. He hammed it up when he performed, was a really nice guy, but he sometimes played out of key and was no Pinetop.
The other guys were good, among them John Primer, Luther Allison's son, Ray "Killer" Allison on drums, and Rick Kreher who went on to play with a really good local band, Studebaker John and the Hawks.
One member of the old band was something of an instigator with the others concerning money and they eventually called Muddy's bluff along the lines of you need us as much as we need you. Stupid move - Muddy made some calls and had a new band.
In his later years, he moved to the Chicago suburb of Westmont, nothing fancy but he really loved the small-town feel and, according to his widow, he talked about the town and how much she would like living there as he pursued her. She is a real sweetheart.
Lastly, being from Chicago, I went to Muddy's wake and it was shocking to me at the time how small became from the cancer. But he was still Muddy Waters, larger than life.
"Hacks" is a strong word to describe the last band, though there was a weak link musically - Lovie Lee the pianist. He hammed it up when he performed, was a really nice guy, but he sometimes played out of key and was no Pinetop.
The other guys were good, among them John Primer, Luther Allison's son, Ray "Killer" Allison on drums, and Rick Kreher who went on to play with a really good local band, Studebaker John and the Hawks.
One member of the old band was something of an instigator with the others concerning money and they eventually called Muddy's bluff along the lines of you need us as much as we need you. Stupid move - Muddy made some calls and had a new band.
In his later years, he moved to the Chicago suburb of Westmont, nothing fancy but he really loved the small-town feel and, according to his widow, he talked about the town and how much she would like living there as he pursued her. She is a real sweetheart.
Lastly, being from Chicago, I went to Muddy's wake and it was shocking to me at the time how small became from the cancer. But he was still Muddy Waters, larger than life.
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