Tell Me :
Talk
Keith and Mick had 200 watt HIWATT head in to 4 4x12 cabs each, seems Bill had 2 HIWATT heads, 4 cabs. Guess the 2nd head could have been backup.
LOUD!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-14 17:24 by His Majesty.
Keith quote " A good distortion is to have two amps going at once, one is clean and the other overdriven"
I always thought the CYHMK tone had a bit of FUZZ on it as well.
Not 'Satisfaction' amount but some definite FUZZ.
Concerning the Ampegs -the SVT's they used for the '69 tour where bass amps with the bias all turned up, leading to this encredible burned-out sound. Only problem was that Richards blew a SVT every night. The sound of the '69 tour isn't much different to the '70 tour, but the '71 tour is much cleaner, mainly due to just turning down the SVT's due to the smaller scale of the venues (and even revrting to Fender Twin amps). For the '72 tour the SVT's where changed to V-9's, which are SVT's with a changed pre-amp circuitry to fit guitars instead of bass. This is the amp they would use until '78. Personally I love the sound of the SVT's. Listen to the 7/9/75 show, it's just encredibly raw and loud.
Concerning CYHMK -no one knows for sure what guitar and amp he used, but there's elements of fuzz and transistor in the sound that could lead to the Vox Supreme amp he used since '67. There's also hints of a speaker breaking up, like you can have with small amps like the WEM branded amps they used for rehearsels, and then there's the hint of the Ampeg Dan Armstrong guitar. It's very mid-heavy and compressed, focussed while still sounding brittle. My guess now would be the DA through a crancked 10 or 15 watt WEM amp.
Mathijs
I've always wondered what the function was of the VOX AC30 was behind Taylor. As far as I know it wasn't there for the opening bands, so it must be specifically for Taylor.
Mathijs
Great info, mathjis, as always! So are you saying that Keith & Tasylor were running through Ampeg BASS amps in '69? That certainly would explain the unique sound of that tour, which has never been repeated (I know the story that they were originall going to bring Suns, but couldn't get them through customs).
It would be nice to get KR on record as to the origin of his CYHMK sound on Sticky Fingers - if he remembers.
Yep, they where bass amps, not guitar amps! I have to say there's one more difference between the '69 and '70 Ampegs the Stones used compared to the V9/SVT amps of 72 - 78: the '69 SVT's used 6146B Power tubes, the V9 models used 6550 tubes.
The Stones actually wanted to tour with HiWatt amps in '69, but these amps couldn't pass customs in time. Ampeg came to rescue.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-16 12:44 by Mathijs.
Maybe for Jaggers mic, maybe for harmonica!?
No sign that Mick Taylor is plugged in to the Vox, his curly leads go straight in to the HIWATT.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-14 22:50 by His Majesty.
Hmm, I doubt that. Main reason being the band was recording live in the studio and a Champ would not have been loud enough. I don't think it quite has the Champ tone either...Keith, can you settle this please?
It could be direct to the console...it doesnt sound like an amp to me
DUDE. What does VOLUME have to do with recording live in a studio? Have you ever recorded with a band live in a studio? Doesn't have the Champ tone? Certainly you are not being serious...
1. Please don't call me "Dude". I hate that word, and it's not my name.
2. Yes, I have recorded in the studio plenty of times.
3. Based on what I know about how that session was recorded, a Fender Champ would not have had the power to cut through the drums. Yes, it's possible if it was mic'd and they were using headphones that would work, but I doubt they did this particular track that way, given what else I have read about the session. And volume is relevant in the studio when you have a whole band playing at the same time, which is how this track was recorded.
4. If you have some evidence to support the claim that it was a Champ please enlighten us.
Absolutely. The volume of the amp isn't as crucial as where the fader sits vis a vis the rest of the other stuff recorded. So you can run a low wattage amp flat out because a) the engineer is going to love you because you haven't bust his $3000 ribbon mic and b) at flat out you can "play" a low wattage amp and c) the volume of the amp is at a sensible level without too much 'bleed" into the other mics.
NickB
You can't always get what you want.....
www.myspace.com/thesonkings
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Amused
()
Date: January 14, 2010 16:59
Beggars Banquet... when he plays Jiving Sister Fanny in One Plus One movie... with that bluesy fills... it's my favorite. ultimate & definitive is 1969 sound, though.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
KeithNacho
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:04
Late 70s -----------MXR Phase and Analog delays..............
Distortion on too tough
Distortion on too tough
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:14
The tone on the solo in Sympathy For The Devil..the album version..can't think of a meaner more visceral guitar tone. guess for the purpose of this thread it's his live tone.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:21
Quote
WeLoveYou
The Hyde Pk sound was also good (what amps were used..marshalls into hiwatt speakers?).
Keith and Mick had 200 watt HIWATT head in to 4 4x12 cabs each, seems Bill had 2 HIWATT heads, 4 cabs. Guess the 2nd head could have been backup.
LOUD!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-14 17:24 by His Majesty.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:33
Begs the question if they got that great sound in '69 with the Ampegs and continued to use Ampegs, why did they never get that sound again?
Also, does anyone think an effect was used on CYHMK? The guitar is far more overdriven than anything else on that album. Has KR ever addressed this?
Also, does anyone think an effect was used on CYHMK? The guitar is far more overdriven than anything else on that album. Has KR ever addressed this?
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Loudei
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:42
Quote
71Tele
Begs the question if they got that great sound in '69 with the Ampegs and continued to use Ampegs, why did they never get that sound again?
Also, does anyone think an effect was used on CYHMK? The guitar is far more overdriven than anything else on that album. Has KR ever addressed this?
Keith quote " A good distortion is to have two amps going at once, one is clean and the other overdriven"
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
WeLoveYou
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:42
Yes... Go Go is great, a real earthy monster tone
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:44
Quote
71Tele
Begs the question if they got that great sound in '69 with the Ampegs and continued to use Ampegs, why did they never get that sound again?
Also, does anyone think an effect was used on CYHMK? The guitar is far more overdriven than anything else on that album. Has KR ever addressed this?
I always thought the CYHMK tone had a bit of FUZZ on it as well.
Not 'Satisfaction' amount but some definite FUZZ.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
StonesFanatic
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:45
For me it's that nasty, slightly overdriven tone he had live in '69 and '72
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Cafaro
()
Date: January 14, 2010 17:50
Live: anything up until 1990. Overall, pretty lame after that.
Studio: I like it all depending on the song with the exception of Steel Wheels where I didn't care for it at all. Soulless and faceless.
Studio: I like it all depending on the song with the exception of Steel Wheels where I didn't care for it at all. Soulless and faceless.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: January 14, 2010 19:44
STUDIO
Parachute Woman
Jigsaw Puzzle
Gimme Shelter
Monkey Man
Brown Sugar
Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Rocks Off
Soul Survivor
Dancing With Mr D
Star Star
If You Can't Rock Me
Hey Negrita
Crazy Mama
Slave
Worried About You
Let Me Go
She's So Cold
All About You
Hang Fire
Neighbours
She Was Hot
Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love)
One Hit (To The Body)
Almost Hear You Sigh
Love Is Strong
Flip The Switch
Lowdown
Thief In The Night
You Don't Have To Mean It
Rough Justice
It Won't Take Long
Dangerous Beauty
She Saw Me Coming
LIVE
Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out! - yes, the entire album
Honky Tonk Woman - Love You Live
1981 Tour - as goofy as it sounds, it was nasty and good - Under My Thumb, Time Is On My Side, Just My Imagination are all fantastic.
Voodoo Lounge Tour - Shattered was exceptional. Tumbling Dice.
Licks - Monkey Man, Midnight Rambler, Street Fighting Man
Parachute Woman
Jigsaw Puzzle
Gimme Shelter
Monkey Man
Brown Sugar
Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Rocks Off
Soul Survivor
Dancing With Mr D
Star Star
If You Can't Rock Me
Hey Negrita
Crazy Mama
Slave
Worried About You
Let Me Go
She's So Cold
All About You
Hang Fire
Neighbours
She Was Hot
Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love)
One Hit (To The Body)
Almost Hear You Sigh
Love Is Strong
Flip The Switch
Lowdown
Thief In The Night
You Don't Have To Mean It
Rough Justice
It Won't Take Long
Dangerous Beauty
She Saw Me Coming
LIVE
Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out! - yes, the entire album
Honky Tonk Woman - Love You Live
1981 Tour - as goofy as it sounds, it was nasty and good - Under My Thumb, Time Is On My Side, Just My Imagination are all fantastic.
Voodoo Lounge Tour - Shattered was exceptional. Tumbling Dice.
Licks - Monkey Man, Midnight Rambler, Street Fighting Man
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
guitarbastard
()
Date: January 14, 2010 20:06
i really love his sound on "i'm going down" and "highwire"...and oh...i think his sound is great on DW (although i dont like the album too much)
i' dont like the SG/ER/TY period too much (guitarsound wise)
i' dont like the SG/ER/TY period too much (guitarsound wise)
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 14, 2010 20:30
Quote
71Tele
Begs the question if they got that great sound in '69 with the Ampegs and continued to use Ampegs, why did they never get that sound again?
Also, does anyone think an effect was used on CYHMK? The guitar is far more overdriven than anything else on that album. Has KR ever addressed this?
Concerning the Ampegs -the SVT's they used for the '69 tour where bass amps with the bias all turned up, leading to this encredible burned-out sound. Only problem was that Richards blew a SVT every night. The sound of the '69 tour isn't much different to the '70 tour, but the '71 tour is much cleaner, mainly due to just turning down the SVT's due to the smaller scale of the venues (and even revrting to Fender Twin amps). For the '72 tour the SVT's where changed to V-9's, which are SVT's with a changed pre-amp circuitry to fit guitars instead of bass. This is the amp they would use until '78. Personally I love the sound of the SVT's. Listen to the 7/9/75 show, it's just encredibly raw and loud.
Concerning CYHMK -no one knows for sure what guitar and amp he used, but there's elements of fuzz and transistor in the sound that could lead to the Vox Supreme amp he used since '67. There's also hints of a speaker breaking up, like you can have with small amps like the WEM branded amps they used for rehearsels, and then there's the hint of the Ampeg Dan Armstrong guitar. It's very mid-heavy and compressed, focussed while still sounding brittle. My guess now would be the DA through a crancked 10 or 15 watt WEM amp.
Mathijs
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 14, 2010 20:39
Quote
His MajestyQuote
WeLoveYou
The Hyde Pk sound was also good (what amps were used..marshalls into hiwatt speakers?).
Keith and Mick had 200 watt HIWATT head in to 4 4x12 cabs each, seems Bill had 2 HIWATT heads, 4 cabs. Guess the 2nd head could have been backup.
LOUD!!!
I've always wondered what the function was of the VOX AC30 was behind Taylor. As far as I know it wasn't there for the opening bands, so it must be specifically for Taylor.
Mathijs
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 14, 2010 20:51
Quote
MathijsQuote
71Tele
Begs the question if they got that great sound in '69 with the Ampegs and continued to use Ampegs, why did they never get that sound again?
Also, does anyone think an effect was used on CYHMK? The guitar is far more overdriven than anything else on that album. Has KR ever addressed this?
Concerning the Ampegs -the SVT's they used for the '69 tour where bass amps with the bias all turned up, leading to this encredible burned-out sound. Only problem was that Richards blew a SVT every night. The sound of the '69 tour isn't much different to the '70 tour, but the '71 tour is much cleaner, mainly due to just turning down the SVT's due to the smaller scale of the venues (and even revrting to Fender Twin amps). For the '72 tour the SVT's where changed to V-9's, which are SVT's with a changed pre-amp circuitry to fit guitars instead of bass. This is the amp they would use until '78. Personally I love the sound of the SVT's. Listen to the 7/9/75 show, it's just encredibly raw and loud.
Concerning CYHMK -no one knows for sure what guitar and amp he used, but there's elements of fuzz and transistor in the sound that could lead to the Vox Supreme amp he used since '67. There's also hints of a speaker breaking up, like you can have with small amps like the WEM branded amps they used for rehearsels, and then there's the hint of the Ampeg Dan Armstrong guitar. It's very mid-heavy and compressed, focussed while still sounding brittle. My guess now would be the DA through a crancked 10 or 15 watt WEM amp.
Mathijs
Great info, mathjis, as always! So are you saying that Keith & Tasylor were running through Ampeg BASS amps in '69? That certainly would explain the unique sound of that tour, which has never been repeated (I know the story that they were originall going to bring Suns, but couldn't get them through customs).
It would be nice to get KR on record as to the origin of his CYHMK sound on Sticky Fingers - if he remembers.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: January 14, 2010 21:08
on cyhmk off sticky fingers ,mick taylor played his solo on a viceroy brown gibson 345(guitar player interview 1979)
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
nankerphlege
()
Date: January 14, 2010 21:33
Quote
Loudei
Keith's greatest tone ever was heard at the El Mocambo gig 1977. Not far behind is his Winos 88' tour sound.
I also want to point out that it is very hard and very unlikely to hear at home what actually happened live onstage. The closest I ever got to the stage was in 97 at the orange bowl in Miami, right in front of Keith's amps and I tell ya, I never heard that tone on a tape or cd or dvd in my life... awesome. So who knows for sure?
loudei;
I agree. I was in a similar situation during ABB. His tone sounded warmer, dirtier, and overall better than had ever heard on cd, bootleg, whatever post ampeg. I was amazes at the difference.
Go Dawgs!
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 14, 2010 21:59
Quote
71Tele
Great info, mathjis, as always! So are you saying that Keith & Tasylor were running through Ampeg BASS amps in '69? That certainly would explain the unique sound of that tour, which has never been repeated (I know the story that they were originall going to bring Suns, but couldn't get them through customs).
Yep, they where bass amps, not guitar amps! I have to say there's one more difference between the '69 and '70 Ampegs the Stones used compared to the V9/SVT amps of 72 - 78: the '69 SVT's used 6146B Power tubes, the V9 models used 6550 tubes.
The Stones actually wanted to tour with HiWatt amps in '69, but these amps couldn't pass customs in time. Ampeg came to rescue.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-16 12:44 by Mathijs.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: January 14, 2010 22:17
Here's the story of the Ampeg guitars
C
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-14 22:18 by liddas.
C
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-14 22:18 by liddas.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: January 14, 2010 22:21
Actually I was convinced I had the page on the SVTs from the same (great) book, but since I was wrong, be satisfied with the story of the guitars!
C
C
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 14, 2010 22:46
Quote
Mathijs
I've always wondered what the function was of the VOX AC30 was behind Taylor. As far as I know it wasn't there for the opening bands, so it must be specifically for Taylor.
Mathijs
Maybe for Jaggers mic, maybe for harmonica!?
No sign that Mick Taylor is plugged in to the Vox, his curly leads go straight in to the HIWATT.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-14 22:50 by His Majesty.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: January 15, 2010 00:01
I've always thought that CYHMK was Keith cranked up to 10 through a Champ.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 15, 2010 00:17
Quote
skipstone
I've always thought that CYHMK was Keith cranked up to 10 through a Champ.
Hmm, I doubt that. Main reason being the band was recording live in the studio and a Champ would not have been loud enough. I don't think it quite has the Champ tone either...Keith, can you settle this please?
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
Loudei
()
Date: January 15, 2010 00:20
Quote
71TeleQuote
skipstone
I've always thought that CYHMK was Keith cranked up to 10 through a Champ.
Hmm, I doubt that. Main reason being the band was recording live in the studio and a Champ would not have been loud enough. I don't think it quite has the Champ tone either...Keith, can you settle this please?
It could be direct to the console...it doesnt sound like an amp to me
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
NickB
()
Date: January 15, 2010 01:00
CYHMK sounds like Keith is playing through a lot wattage amp cranked right up. Remember that wattage is a logarithmic scale and therefore a small wattage amp of say 10 watts can be very loud. The guitar sound does sound quite compressed which to my ears makes me believe that the amp was run flat out. That could be though compression added at the mixing stage to make it sit correctly in the mix. Whatever it sounds mighty good and even better when you crank it on your stereo.
NickB
You can't always get what you want.....
www.myspace.com/thesonkings
NickB
You can't always get what you want.....
www.myspace.com/thesonkings
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: January 15, 2010 01:55
Quote
71TeleQuote
skipstone
I've always thought that CYHMK was Keith cranked up to 10 through a Champ.
Hmm, I doubt that. Main reason being the band was recording live in the studio and a Champ would not have been loud enough. I don't think it quite has the Champ tone either...Keith, can you settle this please?
DUDE. What does VOLUME have to do with recording live in a studio? Have you ever recorded with a band live in a studio? Doesn't have the Champ tone? Certainly you are not being serious...
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 15, 2010 02:00
Quote
skipstoneQuote
71TeleQuote
skipstone
I've always thought that CYHMK was Keith cranked up to 10 through a Champ.
Hmm, I doubt that. Main reason being the band was recording live in the studio and a Champ would not have been loud enough. I don't think it quite has the Champ tone either...Keith, can you settle this please?
DUDE. What does VOLUME have to do with recording live in a studio? Have you ever recorded with a band live in a studio? Doesn't have the Champ tone? Certainly you are not being serious...
1. Please don't call me "Dude". I hate that word, and it's not my name.
2. Yes, I have recorded in the studio plenty of times.
3. Based on what I know about how that session was recorded, a Fender Champ would not have had the power to cut through the drums. Yes, it's possible if it was mic'd and they were using headphones that would work, but I doubt they did this particular track that way, given what else I have read about the session. And volume is relevant in the studio when you have a whole band playing at the same time, which is how this track was recorded.
4. If you have some evidence to support the claim that it was a Champ please enlighten us.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
NickB
()
Date: January 15, 2010 02:01
Quote
skipstoneQuote
71TeleQuote
skipstone
I've always thought that CYHMK was Keith cranked up to 10 through a Champ.
Hmm, I doubt that. Main reason being the band was recording live in the studio and a Champ would not have been loud enough. I don't think it quite has the Champ tone either...Keith, can you settle this please?
DUDE. What does VOLUME have to do with recording live in a studio? Have you ever recorded with a band live in a studio? Doesn't have the Champ tone? Certainly you are not being serious...
Absolutely. The volume of the amp isn't as crucial as where the fader sits vis a vis the rest of the other stuff recorded. So you can run a low wattage amp flat out because a) the engineer is going to love you because you haven't bust his $3000 ribbon mic and b) at flat out you can "play" a low wattage amp and c) the volume of the amp is at a sensible level without too much 'bleed" into the other mics.
NickB
You can't always get what you want.....
www.myspace.com/thesonkings
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 15, 2010 02:07
<< Absolutely. The volume of the amp isn't as crucial as where the fader sits vis a vis the rest of the other stuff recorded. So you can run a low wattage amp flat out because a) the engineer is going to love you because you haven't bust his $3000 ribbon mic and b) at flat out you can "play" a low wattage amp and c) the volume of the amp is at a sensible level without too much 'bleed" into the other mics. >>
Yes. That is correct. But the band was playing live at the time the track was recorded, and it is my opinion that Richards would not have been using a Champ in that situation. I wasn't talking about needing a loud amp to get that tone, I was saying he wouldn't have likely been using such a low-wattage amp to play with the band in a live context. OK?
Sorry I wasn't more clear.
Yes. That is correct. But the band was playing live at the time the track was recorded, and it is my opinion that Richards would not have been using a Champ in that situation. I wasn't talking about needing a loud amp to get that tone, I was saying he wouldn't have likely been using such a low-wattage amp to play with the band in a live context. OK?
Sorry I wasn't more clear.
Re: Fave Keith tone?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: January 15, 2010 02:11
Alright there 71Tele. It's amazing you are offended by being called "dude". And I see you can't handle friendly online exasperation.
"4. If you have some evidence to support the claim that it was a Champ please enlighten us."
Evidence - KEITH RICHARDS from MANY guitar magazine interviews. He has talked highly of the Fender Champ more so than any other amp in the history of the Stones' recording sessions. He's made it clear he's used a Champ A LOT. Fact? FFuck if I know. But it's logical that it was a Champ. Your, er, language to suggest that it wasn't or couldn't be is just ridiculous. You sound as if you know for a fact that recording live in a studio means no headphones and that volume is more important or however it is you are thinking of it.
"4. If you have some evidence to support the claim that it was a Champ please enlighten us."
Evidence - KEITH RICHARDS from MANY guitar magazine interviews. He has talked highly of the Fender Champ more so than any other amp in the history of the Stones' recording sessions. He's made it clear he's used a Champ A LOT. Fact? FFuck if I know. But it's logical that it was a Champ. Your, er, language to suggest that it wasn't or couldn't be is just ridiculous. You sound as if you know for a fact that recording live in a studio means no headphones and that volume is more important or however it is you are thinking of it.
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