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otonneau
Hey Doxa I did not use the word "freak"! I just thought it was wrong to formulate things as "Dylan is still relevant/stirs controversy" etc. It is indeed a bit of a mystery, the diehard thing - but not so much of a mystery; the author himself has a few plausible explanations - Dylan was there at crucial times, you grew up with him, a lot is projected unto him
etc.
I only listed my personal tastes because you hinted at the argument 'people who don't get dylan are prejudiced about what art is", which I find even more annoying than what the author terms the "Dylan roots theory". So I thought it relevant to say that one can definitely dislike Dylan's RECENT output without being somesort of ignorant or snob or elitist (all these terms, however contradictory, are often used).
Generally, I think when people don't like Dylan they are often treated with scorn by Dylan diehard who often come accross as is they had access to some sort of revelation. I never had this impression with you however.
So - it is a complete mystery to me how one can like the NET and Together through life, not to mention the Christmas album; but it's a begign mystery, you are welcome to it and no freak in my eyes!
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Doxa
otenneau, I don't know if you tentatively or not do not get my point, but I try to once again describe it by other means.
The problem with the attitude you and the writer of the article is that you don't accept the people who are fond of Dylan as respectable, rational partners of conversation. You said that very plainly in the first post you replied to me. It is not that you are just stating your 'free' opinions, but that you don't value at all the subjective side of the things. You do not have any kind of 'principle of charity' in your mind. I find that very arrogant. To say it equal arrogantly, it doesn't matter what a hec you mean by 'art', if you know the whole thing from Proust to John Holmes, how much more interesting new art (according to you) there is. No, those things doesn't matter; it is you just stating your personal opinions as facts. Seemingly, it does bother you the fact that quite many people happen to find Bob Dylan relevant and interesting. Why does bother you? Because you personally don't 'get it', and because you personally don't get it - to see what is so great in Dylan - you seem to think there is something wrong with the people who seem to 'get it'. Like I don't 'get it' heavy metal in any its variations and genres, but I don't need to try to tell that to heavy metal fans. I can not understand what is the motivation behind, if not convert, but to show the idiocy of us, the 'die-hard Dylan believers' or what you might call us. Why is it such an important thing to cry out loud?
Now, I don't believe the target you have is Dylan fans actually. It is Dylan. Because you think Dylan is shit, you find it amusing or pervert that someone is fond of his stuff. From this base I think a fruithful, equal conversation between you and I is unlikely possible.
For example, I don't understand how anyone can say that "with all the art being created these days, wonderful new stuff, to pay such importance to old-fashioned renditions of cheesy christmas songs by a man who lost his voice". Well, I don't find the Xmas album such a big deal - and I have reviewed it elsewhere - but what Dylan does - in to my eyes, in my aesthetic world - is something NO-ONE ELSE does - he is walking the road I find extremely exciting. What he does is unique, extraordinary. It is fascinating to see where he is leading us now, what he is doing next.
Some retrospect to explain my 'Dylan fanaticism'.... For years – from 1986 to 1997 - I thought his muse was gone (OH MERCY was a strange exception), and especially through the 90’s he was just a man with a incredible past but uninteresting presence (like the uncreative, Las Vegas-Stones have been for me a long time). But then he released TIME OUT OF MIND and that hit me hard. Even today it is perhaps the album I have most listened in my life (with TATTOO YOU I guess). With that album, I renovate my love with Dylan, but I realized that the name of the game had changed, and the things I got used to with ‘old’ Dylan, didn’t count anymore. But I found this ‘new’, matured, broken-voiced Dylan fascinating one, and I’ve been a fan of his ever since. (It is s sort of 'gestalt-shift' I have hoped the Stones would give me some day, but unfortunately it has not (yet) happened.) I don’t care if Dylan writes any goddamn masterful, high-class and praised poetry with brand-new metaphors and language-games (I never did that such a big thing in Dylan ever, in fact), nor to make innovative fresh melodies, or sings like he did in 1965 or 1975, or even 1985, but I hear him as an artist who talks me, moves me, effects me. With a plain simple phrase, articulated by a broken voice, he talks me more than all, say, Bono’s prayers and tunes taken together. That’s the kind of unique impact I don’t get from any other musician. So incredible connection. I think Dylan has a touch no one else has. That's the impression I find the most precious in any expereience of art I have. Dylan speaks to me as, say, Joan Miro, one of my other very favourites, does.
As a live act he got me back around 2000 when I after a long reflection dared to go to se him (namely I had so bad experiences of that in the past). As a singer, I think what Dylan of the late times have done has gone to the direction that no one has before him. He breaks the standards and boundaries and conventional music or singing is all about. His voice has been broke quite a long now, and perhaps quite many would advice him to retire because his instrument is gone, but I'm happy that he still continues. No matter what happens. To me his voice is pure avant-garde. Together with his well-oiled band - in fact, one of the best live band there is - he convinces me everytime I happen to see him. To be true, I am quite short of words in describing the effect he does for me. That's art.
- Doxa
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Gazza
>To Gazza & Doxa...I respect your admiration for Dylan etc.... but to some extent (not good or bad) you are
sort of what the author is describing (Doxa wrote - " No matter what happens...." ) .
Sorry, but thats simply not true. I've already said on this thread that many of Dylans shows and albums for years on end were mediocre to awful.
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Gazza
I can easily acknowledge mediocrity when I see it. I'd be more concerned about the sort of people who cant accept the fact that fans of an artist who THEY think is consistently awful can have ANY enjoyment from their music whatsoever.
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sweet neo con
I just re-read the article....
HB - about half way thru it appears as though the author
might have been playing "devil's advocate" ...but i don't think he was.
There are often times when it seems that the author sees himself as
an abused Dylan fan.
And then there are other times when he (author) is simply being cynical and
attempting to hold a mirror up to devout followers.
I again enjoyed the article and its perspective.
To me it's sort of a wake-up call to people/fans that put other artists/politician etc... on
such a high pedestal that they can do no wrong..that their sh*t doesnt stink. Reminding them
that they put their pants on one leg at a time & fart like the rest of us.
I don't think that's bad. I think it's a refreshing perspective.
I admire Dylan...........but I am also not fooled by him.
I think the Robbie Robertson quote was very telling.
To Gazza & Doxa...I respect your admiration for Dylan etc.... but to some extent (not good or bad) you are
sort of what the author is describing (Doxa wrote - " No matter what happens...." ) .
Past experiences strongly influencing future experiences. It's only natural.
You have new found appreciation for his "broken voice" etc.... would you have the
same appreciation for a no-name without the history of Bob Dylan? My point (like the authors) is that
we are all guilty of rationalization & excusing things in order to embrace them.
I know from reading your posts about the Rolling Stones (& Dylan Christmas album) that (for the most part) you can
recognize stinkers...so it surprises me that in some ways it appears that you are a little
insulted & offended by the author's premise. The author gives specific examples of poor efforts, plagarization
and possible examples of Dylan's contempt for his audience. Neither we nor the author know Dylan's true motives...but it is
interesting to speculate.
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Doxa
[In a way Dylan is like Charlie Watts - the most ‘normal’ of them all, but one needs goddamn strong character to be one.
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Beelyboy
"No More Auction Block" the genesis and melody for blowin in the wind??
cool info. did not know that