I'm not sure why, but the wife and I both wanted to see the Michael Jackson film, "This Is It". Much to my amazement, I loved every minute of it. When Michael was riding up and down in that cherry picker, I couldn't help but think about Jagger, who had the same idea so many years before. In fact, a lot of it reminded me of the Stones. The two big differences being, that Jackson never seems to loose control the way Jagger often does. Secondly, there is something to be said for having a loyal bunch of players behind you, year after year. Sure the Stones play bum notes, but they push Jagger in a way that Jackson's group of pros never do. But, all that aside, Jagger, Jackson, Jolson, and James Brown-the four greatest live entertainers to ever tread the boards.

Yeah, from all the footage I've seen it really looks like he was gonna put on a great show. Thing is, he got stuck in a moment he couldn't get out of - he let distractions take over his life. So many performers have gotten off track and never gotten back on again From Kurt Cobain to Jim Morrison....Nature of the beast I suppose....

I want to see it too. Any evidence that he''s not as weird as he portrayed himself to be?
Sometimes he acted like naive child and sometimes you'd see a glimpse that maybe it was
an act. Did you notice anything in THIS IS IT? Is the MJ from the Martin Brashear interviews the
true MJ? Re: his personality...Were you surprised by anything in THIS IS IT. Is the movie
mostly performances and interviews with MJ's friends & family...or do we see Jackson interact
with staff, promoters, technicians, dancers etc..and other adults?


IORR............but I like it!

What comes across is his intelligence, which frankly is the last thing I expected. I always guessed that Jackson might have another speaking voice than that high pitched, singsongy thing he used so often in public. He did have another one-lower in pitch, commanding, respectful. He comes across as the least weird performer you've ever seen. He interacts with musicians, choreographers, and the rest of the crew in the most articulate, disciplined way imaginable. Clearly, he was a conceptual, as well as a performing genius. His directions to his keyboard player, particularly were a revelation. Clearly, they were talking one player to another. Finally, I can think of only one other performer who seemed to enjoy working with a good looking woman as much as Jackson does here.

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sweet neo con
I want to see it too. Any evidence that he''s not as weird as he portrayed himself to be?
Sometimes he acted like naive child and sometimes you'd see a glimpse that maybe it was
an act. Did you notice anything in THIS IS IT? Is the MJ from the Martin Brashear interviews the
true MJ? Re: his personality...Were you surprised by anything in THIS IS IT. Is the movie
mostly performances and interviews with MJ's friends & family...or do we see Jackson interact
with staff, promoters, technicians, dancers etc..and other adults?

SNC, Dude, the guy wasn't cut out for show biz, he was too thin skinned, too sensitive for the circus. I knew a guy that knew Jackson, worked with him. You wanna know who Michael Jackson was? He was just a singer and human with flaws, like me and (maybe) you. You think ANYONE is very real in interviews? Maybe John Lennon was.....



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-02 00:46 by HelterSkelter.

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HelterSkelter
Leave your E-mail and I'll answer your questions about MJ...

Why not answer his questions here in the thread where he asked them?

I saw the movie a couple of days ago . No question about it he was a musical genius ! Just the way he knew his songs , all the little details the way he moved and sang . Just like Charlie Watts said the only other great frontman other than Mick is Michael Jackson . I loved the movie ! I always got the feeling that Michael wanted that honor of " highest grossing concert " that The Stones carried . Sad,Sad,Sad.

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TippyToe

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HelterSkelter
Leave your E-mail and I'll answer your questions about MJ...

Why not answer his questions here in the thread where he asked them?

Well, what's he wanna know? I really could have cared less about people's sex lives and drug usage and other gossip shit, I have my own life to think about. My general statement was from what I know MJ was a pretty normal guy basically....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-02 00:44 by HelterSkelter.

Thanks Moosman..I think you answered my question. Interesting. I'll give my opinion after I see the movie.

Helter wrote: "You think ANYONE is very real in interviews? Maybe John Lennon was....."

I understand your point...but if he's "thin-skinned" overly sensitive guy as you say....that promotes
himself as a weird person (sleeping in oxygen tank, elephant man bones & wedding stunts) why
would a "normal guy" as Helter called him....want to portray himself as a peter pan that has
sleepovers with young boys..especially when his sexuality is in question and there has been
accusations of molestation. Best and healthiest thing he could have done..if he was "normal"
was to present himself to the press and public as a confident adult musical genius. He was totally
opposite in the Martin Brashear special...a fragile man-child who was clueless about the real
world and adult behavior.

Hey TippyToe... re: Helter's constant demand for my email address....

I think he wants to get some things off his chest without getting booted by bv again.

I've told him..anything he has to say to me he can say here....
Probably just wants to tell me how the US sucks and Roman Polanski is his idol.
WHat will be...will be.


IORR............but I like it!

helter....why do you keep editing your posts? my edits are to ADD more info
or CORRECT TYPOS...you delete paragraphs. Just wondering.


IORR............but I like it!

Isn't Robbie Williams the biggest stage-act these days? and Frankie Boy before that? I'm talkin microphone-singers with hired musicians.

2 1 2 0

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Come On
Isn't Robbie Williams the biggest stage-act these days? and Frankie Boy before that? I'm talkin microphone-singers with hired musicians.

how can you compare MJ to robbie williams????
MJ is the greatest performer ever, he changed music forever!

Patrick W, the stones lighting guy was working on the project and is shown in the film briefly.

will be going thursday 17,30
with my 10 year old granddaughter..

"one two three A B C"

will be going thursday 17,30
with my 10 year old granddaughter..

Staff Members have determined this a worthwhile flick. Actually "behind the scenes footage" is more interesting than actual concert scenes in some cases. This is no exception. Also important, time with gd is invaluable.

cc: L.O.
cc: Commissioner

I went to it last Sunday with my girlfriend and kids.
We loved it. He came across to me as if he was ready and willing to do the shows.

Funny was that it reminded the four of us of Greece, since we played MJ A LOT during our trip to Lefkas this summer because it was the only CD on sale on the Beach. :-)

" absolutement Roger mercy beaucoup je suis tres .. happy..
esp : time with gd is invaluable. over and out"

Saw it and loved it too. His charisma is unbelievable; wierdo skinny guy hits stage and becomes slick sexy gracious performer. Magic! He does not even need to be fast; he just has that special thing. The version of Human Nature alone is worth going.

Unnecessary to mention perhaps, but this blew Shine a Light away as far as I'm concerned. And funnily, the fact that it was a mix of three-four cameras made it even better; low key, long shots rather than the Scorsese epileptic camera switches - that's how music should be filmed, without trying too hard.

Besides the band is amazing! And there's a super hot blonde guitar player who does customary tongue-in-cheek metal which is fun and sex.

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otonneau
Saw it and loved it too..

i plan on seeing it..and from clips i've seen...i'll probably like it.

but let's not forget that we are only seeing what the jackson family wants us to
see. ....Michael in the best light possible. a memorial to a legend. i've always wanted to
give MJackson the benefit of the doubt (about his weirdness & accusations etc..)
but he made it difficult. I really hope to be convinced that he's not as weird
as he led us to believe.


IORR............but I like it!

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sweet neo con
but let's not forget that we are only seeing what the jackson family wants us to
see. ....Michael in the best light possible. a memorial to a legend. i've always wanted to
give MJackson the benefit of the doubt (about his weirdness & accusations etc..)
but he made it difficult. I really hope to be convinced that he's not as weird
as he led us to believe.

What is weird? This is what I would suggest SNC, forget about MJ (don't worry about his personal lifestyle, has NOTHING to do with you) (your Bud just trying to help out)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-04 07:10 by HelterSkelter.

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lounisproduction


how can you compare MJ to robbie williams????
MJ is the greatest performer ever, he changed music forever!

Without going all negative, but "greatest ever"? He's just the latest ever. Musically, Jackson had his five year flurry when his work really mattered, just like the other important performers that came before him.

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HelterSkelter

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sweet neo con
but let's not forget that we are only seeing what the jackson family wants us to
see. ....Michael in the best light possible. a memorial to a legend. i've always wanted to
give MJackson the benefit of the doubt (about his weirdness & accusations etc..)
but he made it difficult. I really hope to be convinced that he's not as weird
as he led us to believe.

What is weird? This is what I would suggest SNC, forget about MJ (don't worry about his personal lifestyle, has NOTHING to do with you) (your Bud just trying to help out)

Helter, I know what you're saying....to separate his music from the personal stuff.
For the most part..I do. I am ABLE to like his music...and I do.
There is no denying his great talent.
That does not mean that I can't take interest in his public image.
These days the performers' personal lives are promoted as much (or more) as their talent.

Not fair to say ignore ("nothing to do with you" ) Neverland sleepovers, Oxygen tanks, Elephant Man bones,
Bubbles the Chimp, molestation charges, peter pan syndrome, plastic surgery, diana ross fixation, macaully culkin,
skin bleaching etc etc etc... It is known that some of this was orchestrated weirdness to keep public interest
and the rest of it is probably a result of the nuttiness of his upbringing (joe jackson /child stardom...no childhood etc..).

My ultimate point: how much of what we saw of MJackson was real and how much was bullsh*t.
Is he really the peter pan/man-child that he seemed to be....or was he MORE adult than we give him credit for.

I've seen interviews where he seems like a clueless child and others where he seems more savvy.
Just wondering..to what degree has he pulled the wool over our eyes...and asked moosman which
MJackson he saw in THIS IS IT....man-child or a confident & shrewd adult performer(?)

I think my original question was pretty clear.

Helter...if we are simply to dismiss everything by saying (as you said) "don't worry..has nothing
to do with you"...that's ridiculous. Personally, I want to know if $$ I spend on a cd is going into
the bank account of a child molester.
I could say to you...don't worry about Roman Polanski...why defend him...nothing to do with you.
And on & on & on etc...

SPeaking for myself..I'm not "worried"..just curious.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-04 13:57 by sweet neo con.

SweetNeoCon, I think you miss the point of the movie. Nobody pretended it should tell the truth on MJ's private life or anything like that. And I don't think it has much to do with the Jackson family either. It is quite simply bits of rehearsals patched together to give an idea of what the shows would have been - a mix of a few cameras made by the guy who was in charge of designing the show - a music film, nothing more, nothing less. No point at all going all conspiratory about it. And that's what's great; I surely never would have gone to see a "memorial to a legend" as you put it.

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otonneau
SweetNeoCon, I think you miss the point of the movie. Nobody pretended it should tell the truth on MJ's private life or anything like that. And I don't think it has much to do with the Jackson family either. It is quite simply bits of rehearsals patched together to give an idea of what the shows would have been - a mix of a few cameras made by the guy who was in charge of designing the show - a music film, nothing more, nothing less. No point at all going all conspiratory about it. And that's what's great; I surely never would have gone to see a "memorial to a legend" as you put it.

Thanks. Haven't seen it yet. I knew that the rehearsals would be the majority of the film...and wondered
if the MJ seen was different the than one we saw in the Martin Brashear interviews.....and then I got off
on a tangent answering specific questions from Helter. Moosman's 2nd post on this thread answered my question.

Not trying to be "conspiratorial"...just trying to make sense of MJ's public image....& reminding
people that Jackson's family probably had final say on how he was portrayed (editing). Anything said or
done in rehearsal that might be odd (if there was any) was probably not included. MJ in best light.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-04 14:42 by sweet neo con.

Well of course MJ in best light. A movie on the Stones will show them in best light. Or rather any entertainer is there to show you something entertaining. It's not like we're the judge or jury or psychologist or priest and they must confess to us, is it? No entertainer has any duty to show anything else but what he wants us to see.

Of course there are issues about Jackson as a person - although to be fair I think they are simply too complicated to be dealt with on the net, or in any film whatsoever. And for the record I think in the Bashir documentary, Bashir comes accross as a petty, malevolent, tabloïd sh*t-seeking vulture. And I also think Jackson, nuts as he may be, comes accross as polite, articulate and far from being the wacko that Bashir wants to expose. To have a man like Bashir expose a man like Jackson is to make a puritanical hypocritical Tom-the-peeper into a judge.

Reminds me of a fun quote from film-director Billy Wilder:

"A lot of people think that we in Hollywood spend our time snuffing salad bowls full of cocaine, lazying around swimming pools, drinking champagne, being driven in limos and making love to gorgeous women. All of that is true - may you die of envy!"

Not saying that Jackson never did anything wrong - just saying that the criticism against him was often ill-informed voyeurism for which I have no sympathy.

Even though it was 0100am in Leicester Square, the film was certainly worth seeing to see how, what would have been an amazing show, was put together. It is also worth bearing in mind that it was never intended for release, the hundreds of hours of footage was for Michael's personal collection and only subsequent events resulted in the film being made. Of course, only his best moments are featured and whether he could have put together one high octane 2 hour show is debatable, let alone 50....

Oh yes, and Orianthi, the blonde lead guitarist really does go for it on 'Beat It' and 'Black or White'!

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otonneau
Well of course MJ in best light. A movie on the Stones will show them in best light. Or rather any entertainer is there to show you something entertaining. It's not like we're the judge or jury or psychologist or priest and they must confess to us, is it? No entertainer has any duty to show anything else but what he wants us to see.

Of course there are issues about Jackson as a person - although to be fair I think they are simply too complicated to be dealt with on the net, or in any film whatsoever. And for the record I think in the Bashir documentary, Bashir comes accross as a petty, malevolent, tabloïd sh*t-seeking vulture. And I also think Jackson, nuts as he may be, comes accross as polite, articulate and far from being the wacko that Bashir wants to expose. To have a man like Bashir expose a man like Jackson is to make a puritanical hypocritical Tom-the-peeper into a judge.

Not saying that Jackson never did anything wrong - just saying that the criticism against him was often ill-informed voyeurism for which I have no sympathy.

Fair enough.

Re: "best light" - I agree with you.
Re: " It's not like we're the judge or jury or psychologist or priest and they must confess to us, is it?"

True, but most of us don't like to be duped...played as fools. I don't take everything at face value.
(seems that some people accept being spoon-fed sugar-coated stories about their fave celebrities)

Re: Martin Bashir - i can't disagree with you about his motives...but Jackson's own words & actions
speak for themselves (odd behavior & odd answers).

Please understand...i'm not arguing with anyone or saying you're wrong & I'm right. I don't know.
It's been tough to get a handle on the real MJackson.... & I wondered which MJ was present
at the '09 rehearsals. Sounds like he was very professional & adult-like.


IORR............but I like it!

IORR............but I like it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-04 18:52 by sweet neo con.

SNC, it's very easy, cause I live in LA County and the LA District attorney is the one going after Polanski at this very late date and guess who's money he is using? Yes sir SNC, MINE, my tax money - and this circus is costing A TON !!! To protect us from what?!?! Can't you see it's just a SHOW?!?! Please don't be so Naive. Polanski threatens NO ONE, the DA is probably much more of a mess than RP ever was (I know most Americans don't understand you should get things back for your tax money but I happen to get that concept). Polanski is 76, the girl/victim has PLEADED and BEGGED numerous times to drop it and let him go (recently she said she has received over 500 phone calls so far - at all hours of the night - from everybody from Larry King to Oprah to every major newspaper around. She lives in Hawaii with her children and husband and just wants to be left alone.... plus with Hawaii's 3 - west coast - to 6 - east coast - hour time change I can see how her phone calls can be at horrible hours when one is sleeping - or trying to). Polanski has paid dearly. His career would have been much different, much better, had he been able to come to LA regularly. He spent time in jail, he has horrible regrets and guilt. Ever hear of compassion? Let's look at your life, the little dark secrets.....

As far as Jackson goes his father verbally and physically abused him for years, he talked down to him ALL THE TIME and slapped him around. The more I learn the sadder the whole story gets. The man was OBVIOUSLY a very troubled soul. But his UNIQUE talent has now, Through MJ making it and then getting out of the way through an almost self inflicted death, set all his family up for a life of massive wealth and riches - no work, just let the cheques float in. You watch what happens, it's gonna be sick !!! I have some family like that (on a much smaller scale of course). We were used big time so I have a small idea how it feels - huh, Daddy JOE JACKSON, what a slime ball !!! MJ was damaged goods from the get go, he NEVER had a chance (I've heard some VERY sad stories since his death about what he had to go through. My opinion of him has TOTALLY changed. A very pained troubled soul and I really feel for him and his basically very sad life....) You study serious parental abuse and you'll start to understand a lot of the "strange behavior" stuff. Man, you EVER hear of COMPASSION, FORGIVENESS, UNDERSTANDING? What god made you the judge? You wanna judge so much go stand in front of some mirrors and take a good look.....

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HelterSkelter
SNC, it's very easy, cause I live in LA County and the LA District attorney is the one going after Polanski at this very late date and guess who's money he is using? Yes sir SNC, MINE, my tax money - and this circus is costing A TON !!! To protect us from what?!?! Can't you see it's just a SHOW?!?! Please don't be so Naive. Polanski threatens NO ONE, the DA is probably much more of a mess than RP ever was (I know most Americans don't understand you should get things back for your tax money but I happen to get that concept). Polanski is 76, the girl/victim has PLEADED and BEGGED numerous times to drop it and let him go (recently she said she has received over 500 phone calls so far - at all hours of the night - from everybody from Larry King to Oprah to every major newspaper around. She lives in Hawaii with her children and husband and just wants to be left alone.... plus with Hawaii's 3 - west coast - to 6 - east coast - hour time change I can see how her phone calls can be at horrible hours when one is sleeping - or trying to). Polanski has paid dearly. His career would have been much different, much better, had he been able to come to LA regularly. He spent time in jail, he has horrible regrets and guilt. Ever hear of compassion? Let's look at your life, the little dark secrets.....

As far as Jackson goes his father verbally and physically abused him for years, he talked down to him ALL THE TIME and slapped him around. The more I learn the sadder the whole story gets. The man was OBVIOUSLY a very troubled soul. But his UNIQUE talent has now, Through MJ making it and then getting out of the way through an almost self inflicted death, set all his family up for a life of massive wealth and riches - no work, just let the cheques float in. You watch what happens, it's gonna be sick !!! I have some family like that (on a much smaller scale of course). We were used big time so I have a small idea how it feels - huh, Daddy JOE JACKSON, what a slime ball !!! MJ was damaged goods from the get go, he NEVER had a chance (I've heard some VERY sad stories since his death about what he had to go through. My opinion of him has TOTALLY changed. A very pained troubled soul and I really feel for him and his basically very sad life....) You study serious parental abuse and you'll start to understand a lot of the "strange behavior" stuff. Man, you EVER hear of COMPASSION, FORGIVENESS, UNDERSTANDING? What god made you the judge? You wanna judge so much go stand in front of some mirrors and take a good look.....

first of all..regarding Polanski....there's nothing you can say that will get me to let him off the hook.
secondly...regarding MJackson. i totally understand that joe jackson f*cked him up.
it's very sad...i've said that. that's obvious. if he's guilty of horrific crimes...that doesn't excuse him.
if you read my posts on this thread..i'm not accusing him of anything..just commenting on the dual
personalities...and have even said i want to give MJ the benefit of the doubt..looking for something
that will convince me he's not abusing kids...and question your description of MJ as "normal".

re: compassion............Polanski (& MJ - if he's guilty) didn't show any compassion
to their victims...no reason for me to show compassion to Polanski (or MJ - if guilty).

and I'm happy to report that I don't have any "little dark secrets".

re: judging

you and your other alias (MicksBrain) have done quite a bit of that over the years.


IORR............but I like it!