That's my question: why the strongest Stones market is providing bad sales nowadays, even though (a) the band is backing it up with the tour, (b) it is the first Stones album for 8 years, (c) it is quite a good album in Stonesian terms?

The best albums sold about 4-5 million copies in 2005, while ABB did less than 400 000. It might be the worst numbers ever for a new Stones studio album. There is no dramatic difference elsewhere (it sells alright worldwide, two weeks internationatal chart topper, etc.), but in US ABB seems to flop. What has happened? Can anyone provide any good explanations for this phenomenon?

- Doxa

Marketing maybe?

give it time; it's too early to pronounce ABB sales dead already. I expect the Super Bowl to provide a BIG jump as well. (If they're not so cowardly that they dont play material from ABB - if this happens they are beyond hope as a 'creative' force)

Moreover, considering that there has been almost NO radio support in the US, gold sales really aren't that bad.

The Superbowl will do that, so I agree with Nikkibong. When they announced Horsens ABB went back into # 30 on the Danish chart. Stones CD sales in Horsens was up by 400% the day after the ticket sale.

JumpingKentFlash

The US has way too many wiggers.

The business has changed. The best American bands ie Wilco, Pearl Jam, the Strokes, Beck, all sell in 500,000 range. It's frustrating but times change. There is still a market but it's people like us who keep the traditions and respect true rock n roll.

Like Marquess suggested there is something wrong done with marketing, probably. Perhaps Super Bowl will help a bit, but jeez, there was a time that the Stones didn't any @#$%& Super Bowl or Soap Operas to promote their albums! Sometimes releasing the album or the tour supporting it was enough to do the marketing trick! The Stones seems to do quite 'cheap' deals nowadays (the posing with car is so embarrassing that is not even fun anymore - contra hilarous Dylan and the women's underwear ad!). For me it looks like the band has the leading policy going there where the route is easiest.

Nikkibong wrote:

"Moreover, considering that there has been almost NO radio support in the US, gold sales really aren't that bad."

Well, perhaps that's one of the main reasons for its relative failure: no radio play. There seems to be no place ("air") for new Stones material; namely under which category you would put that? It's not 'classic rock' or 'oldies' yet... Yeah, probably the business has changed. like Stanbooth said, and the type of music Stones represents do not fit anywhere (perhaps here in Europe the radio stations are not that categorized yet, even though the play lists are critizied everywhere). Given this fact, I think it is even technically impossible for The Stones to do any 'anthems' or new 'hot rocks' - the songs that everyone recognize immediatelly - nowadays because the songs cannot be heard anywhere (not even in The Stones concerts). It looks like that Jagger has realized that some time ago (10 years?), and not really put too much effort and creative energy for the new Stones material. It's not worth that. After 8 years silence, ABB was done by using minimal energy. Also quite telling is Jagger's attitude towards the promotion and thereby the sales. No proper videos to promote the singles (where they would be seen?). In a recent interview he seemed not to mind at all the relative low sales of ABB. He lets things like Live Licks to be released for sure knowing that it will sell next to nothing. The only thing he seems to be interested is the touring - the big money is over there. Perhaps as a clever business man, Jagger has reflected the change of the market and don't waste his bullets in empty targets.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-01-02 15:18 by Doxa.

The poor radio support may partly be due to "Sweet Neo Con". The Republicans have a heavy influence in the media, and use this ruthlessly, with little or no regard for free speech.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-01-02 19:22 by Ringo.

Because our credit cards are maxed out.

1st little or no air play.
2. most young kids like rap and crap like that.
3. many stones freaks are either dead or too old to buy cd's.(how many died or too old in the last 8 years)
4. many more sales but i bet at least 1,000,000.00 units would have sold but were downloaded...for free!
5. no album for 8 years and a lot of kids only know of them as a old peoples band and don't even give it a listen..if the stones had released great albums at least every 3 years they be on the radio a lot more and more kids may want to give it a chance. they are not hot anymore...so please release a new one soon!

6.....don't get mad...but i don't think they have a real single...not one to catch the kids... not like brown sugar, start me up, angie,etc...nothing to grab todays kids...the album may be the best since some girls, but it doesn't have a miss you on the entire bang album!

It's crap

"You look like a leper dressed as Sergeant Pepper"

sorry, but if they don't get air play the stones are smart and lucky to get on
soaps, super bowl and car companies to get their word out....
the only other thing i would have done is give a c.d. with every ticket..then the stones would have sold at least 1.2 million c.ds in the usa...

The reason is because in the US radio is so concerned with playing only the classics when it comes to older bands and they don't really care about the new stuff so thats why it did not have high sales. But I guess as far as ticket sales the formula works because they have and still are selling plenty of them.

who cares about "america"?, there are a lot of countries in America, Canada, Panama, Chile, Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela, can you tell me what country are you talking about?

I have been hearing more radio play lately, far more than when it first came out

It is an entirely new and untried Genre:

"Classic oldies bands putting out new material"...


How many bands fit that profile and how are THEIR SALES DOING ?? You really can't compare one genre to another, much more realistic to compare bands in this same genre to each other...

And how many such bands are there ?? Perhaps:

1) Roger Waters and his new "opera" CD... how's that selling ?

2) Fogerty's Deja Vu, how did it sell ?

3) Macca's latest... Chaos & Creation (a treatise on quantum physics?) how's it selling?

4) Springsteen's latest bundle of 20 or so songs... there's one every year, how's it selling ?

5) Allman Brothers, Hittin' the Note... how did it sell ?

6) Even Bon Jovi's latest... Have a Nice Day... they aren't as "oldie" as the Stones, but their last release probably isn't selling so well


I don't track ratings and sales, but I'd make a small wager NONE of these "New CD's by old classic bands" sold very well

"It's just that demon life has got me in it's sway..."

Steven Wrote:
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> The US has way too many wiggers.


Yep.

A lot of people are into rap and techno today.

Im not too sad about rap, but techno is sad.

A lot of people are also asking: Why should we fill the pockets of four sixty year old men who are already worth 600 mil apiece?

sad.

McCartney, Springsteen and Bon Jovi sold well.
I even think Springsteen and Bon Jovi made it to #1 in the first week.

Rooster & Born On The Bayou said pretty much all I intended to say - I can't think of a major (meaning legends & still superstars, who reached top 3 in Billboard, & still doing bigger tours than almost anyone) album from the past year that received less airplay...So the soap (which I intentionally skipped), Football game, ads w/ idiots trying to sell, what, mortages?, while Virtually attending a Stones show for a minute are alternatives to no one playing the damned thing...Actually ABB will likely reach a half million in US sales within the next couple weeks - 28,500 sold last week, 48,000 to go. I'm frankly slightly surprised, & happy, ABB's maintained some momentum during the 4 weeks since the first leg of the tour ended. Actually, it's doing better than it was a month ago. Not that I attribute this steady if hardly phenomenal sales to the release of the "special expanded edition" - if folks thought it was a dog, they wouldn't be inclined to buy it twice, would they? There is a sense - subjective, based on chats with friends & strangers - that ABB is garnering positive (& good old fashioned) word-of-mouth. I wasn't quick to call it their best since Tattoo, becasuse I really like most of Dirty Work, Voodoo, Babylon, & Stripped - but the album repays repeat listens, & seems to me stronger now than back in September. Maybe the '06 leg of the US tour will keep sales steady - would help if they never indulge in the perverse decision to occasionally drop from 4 to 3 (I'd prefer 5 - 6) new ones per show. Fogerty, like most artists with a fan base but not hit singles, did pretty good opening week - a pattern not unique to middle aged/old rockers, as countless hip hop titles (notwithstanding Kanye West or Eminem) tumble down the charts & disappear after a few weeks.
And I'd add the last two superb Robert Plant titles to BOTB's list, as good as any of his post-Zep work - not much airplay, some key TV exposure, & "Mighty Rearranger" dropped from a debut # 22 down to # 84 in his 2nd week. I'm sure there are scores of other examples, including - before their recent multiplat 'comebacks' - Green Day, Santana, Mariah Carey just to name three who come to mind.

The internet. Limewire, WinMX, any other file sharing program. You can knock 500,000 album sales out just due to the web.

Milo NYC
It aint no capital crime

<<McCartney, Springsteen and Bon Jovi sold well.
I even think Springsteen and Bon Jovi made it to #1 in the first week.>>

McCartney sold less, Sprinsteen probably more but not in europe, Bon Jovi(even though the album is mainstream crap) didn't make #1 in the US and the sales are dissapointing as well in the US.
I didn't buy ABB, why should I? To bring up sales figures? To make the Stones even richer (162 mio for the tour alone last year)? to help the record company? I want the music and I try to get it where I can and as free as I can.

Just most of Stones fans generation will download free nowadays

Star Wrote:
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> Just most of Stones fans generation will download
> free nowadays


you think? I would have thought that most downloaders would be younger than the average Stones audience. yet many of those artists who appeal to younger audiences far outsell the Stones.

the album has sold better in many other countries than it has in the US, yet theyve only been playing in the US so far. If anything, you would have expected sales in the US to have been proportionally much greater than in other markets because of the media and public exposure the tour gives them.

the problem seems more of a US one than it does in many other places. Downloading is a worldwide phenomenon, after all.

people's buying habits are just different in each country for various reasons. The Stones are able to sell expensive concert tickets easier in the US than anywhere else, yet their album sales are slower than in many other markets.

That would suggest that in general in the US they are seen as a nostalgia act (a problem not helped by not having a record in 8 years) which gives them more of an appeal to the sort of affluent, middle aged audience who dont buy a lot of new music. Its also a knock on effect of the fact that their ticket prices went through the roof in the US a few years before they did so in other markets, which excludes a lot of younger record-buying fans in the process. They're increasingly being seen as a nostalgia act in Europe as well, but not quite in the same level as is the case in America just yet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-01-03 13:00 by Gazza.

People at large, are probably, only interested, in the back catalogue,
(i.e "Greatest Hits"), and not the new stuff.

>> (162 mio for the tour alone last year)? <<

162 million is the gross, not what the Stones made.

it's curious that some of us love the fact that the Stones have made themselves so hugely rich,
and others seem to regard it as some kind of hostile act on their part.
not looking for a fight, just curious: these cats started off with nothing but their love for the music and their talent,
navigated miles and miles unimaginable oh-lordy and became so big that they changed the meaning of the word forever.
i personally get an enormous kick out of that - and also feel real aware that if they weren't rich we wouldn't have them anymore
(and no i don't mean they're doing it just for the money).
so i'm glad to pay them for their music. i'm delighted when their records sell well -
it adds to their glory *and* to the hope that their next record contracts will be too good to turn down.

plus there's that sick-making vision of state-sponsored musicians being all we have left when enough people stop paying for music.


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-01-03 13:24 by with sssoul.

@#$%& blues Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I didn't buy ABB, why should I? To bring up sales
> figures? To make the Stones even richer (162 mio
> for the tour alone last year)? to help the record
> company? I want the music and I try to get it
> where I can and as free as I can.

Because going to the record store, buying a new album of your favorite band, go home, listening to it, check out the artwork is something I always look forward to. I remember when I bought my stones albums and when I listen to them now it takes me back to the time when I bought and heard them for the first time.
Great experience!

You buy books, you buy a ticket to go to the cinema, why not buy your cds?
I actually never listen to cd-r's. It's like I don't own those albums. I MUST own them.

Artists aren't charity workers also.

I spent enough money on them already, I nowadays rather spend my money on <<those who starts off with nothing but their love for the music and their talent>>. The artwork of the new album is by the way just bad, they could have hired a good young designer, have payed him well to do it right.
And regarding >>charity>>, they should give something, may be the littlebit what is left from >>162 gross<< to give to young musicians to keep rock'n roll alive.
I love them but they don't need our financial support anymore.

If you're a fan, the one thing you are suppose to do is buy the albums. It just wouldn't feel right... I can't imagine having ABB on a cd-r.
And if the stones don't have love for the music anymore, they wouldn't record anymore.
It's not our business how much money they have. You're a fan ==> you buy the albums. They're priced the same as other albums. Concert tickets is another subject.

I have no problems with downloading. But downloading every track of an album and burn them on a disc is sad.
Paying 18€ for new music of The Stones can't be too much.

The US record-buying public are obviously not impressed by the singles they've heard so far off the album.

I'm not myself.

Ringo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The poor radio support may partly be due to "Sweet
> Neo Con". The Republicans have a heavy influence
> in the media, and use this ruthlessly, with little
> or no regard for free speech.
>
Utter nonsense. Fox News gave much free publicity to ABB because of the Sweet Neo Con song. You have to blame the lack of radio play for the album because of the changing nature of the radio market in 2005.