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moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: otonneau ()
Date: October 10, 2009 17:34

Funny, much as I love the Stones, I am never actually moved by their songs - and I rarely feel that they themselves are moved as they perform them. Let me explain. I could roughly outline three relations I have with musicians:

The moving movers (Irma Thomas, Otis Redding, Billie Holiday, Dylan); I can't believe it would be possible for them to sing like this if they didn"t mean it. Their own emotion gets to me.

The unmoved movers (Sam Cooke!!); Sam Cooke can draw tears from me in one word, and I mean one! "Baby won't you please come home", "These foolish things". Yet I don't think HE is moved, he is the consumate pro, exemplary savoir-faire in rendering and communicating emtions, while himself remaining at a distance.

(digression: a girl once told me that Sam Cooke was the kind of guy who you know does not mean it, and he knows that you know he doesn't mean it, but you give in nonethelss)

The unmoving unmovers (Stones, Ella Fitzgerad): I admire an immense savoir-faire yet again; and it's a genuine thrill to feel their energy, their love of music, their sheer pleasure to play; but the actual emotion that the song should convey is ultimately irrelevant. Altogether, the Stones is for me very intellectual (a second-degree appreciation of a job perfectly done, especially in the studio) or directly physical (the quick of energy and life, especially on stage), but rarely emotional (the specific feelings of melancholy, or jealousy, or bitterness, or loneliness etc).

This could have more to do with Jagger than we others.

One exception though: Think i'm going mad.

Does that echo anybody else's experience?

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: October 10, 2009 17:48

Hey, it's only rock-n-roll !


Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: Bärs ()
Date: October 10, 2009 19:53

This is very intellectual:


You call yourself a Christian
I think that you're a hypocrite
You say you are a patriot
I think that you're a crock of shit

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: October 10, 2009 20:59

I like the idea that a large group of certain people call themselves Christians and act like they are perfect, harmless, intelligent innocent people when in fact it's quite the opposite. It's a huge assumption that they have. It's very amusing.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: crazymama ()
Date: October 10, 2009 21:11

Some songs were moving me to tears, especially in live-versions, like

Wild horses in Dübendorf 2006,
Memory Motel in Leipzig 1998
or the Intro of Sweet Virginia in Nijmegen 2007.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: sweetcharmedlife ()
Date: October 10, 2009 21:15




Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: otonneau ()
Date: October 10, 2009 21:26

"You gotta move" is actually for me a prime example of a song that, done by the Stones, is not moving. Great exercise in exploring blues music, but very very intellectual: all the rawness that was rooted in religious feeling is turned into calculated stylistic effects. No religiosity whatsoever, not even any fear or threat.

Of course, that's very personal.

And it's not a flaw: actually, the reason why I love the Stones over most British blues boom bands is that they never (rarely) try to compete with the originals on emotional grounds (which would be a lost battle). They assume their english aesthetic distanciation.

But that's surely too intellectual, huh? Anyway... just thought I'd open a stones-related thread, you know...

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: Bärs ()
Date: October 10, 2009 21:52

Ther is a distance between them and their lyrics which I think is the result of the humour that's almost always there. It's not a silly self-centered humour like The Beatles, but it's a discrete, friendly humour that conveys affection. Far Away Eyes is at the surface a mock country/religious song, but on a deeper level it's an honest country/religious song. I think You Got To Move perhaps belongs in the same category. I think that the humour is their method to approach genres where they can't compete with the "real" thing on, as you say, emotional grounds, but their approach is still serious and honest.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Date: October 11, 2009 02:24

I've always felt that the most moving live vocal rendition of a song was 'That's How Strong My Love Is' from the Live Licks tour. Even Keith was visibly impressed with Mick's delivery.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: otonneau ()
Date: October 11, 2009 03:33

Bärs, I completely agree! Very well put... The humour is the factor missing in my equation. Also on stage, especially in later years, I love the Stones for that: they are in charge, ultimate stars, and yet so FUNNY.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: squando ()
Date: October 11, 2009 13:06

I agree in general otonneau. Although when I have songs like YGMR and "Angie" cranking I feel moved big time. I think Mick is in the studio performance of "Angie". Live I can't say I've ever considered him moved by a song. I think he sees them as a neccesary by product of performing for the most part. He acts out THSMLI and OOC very well but I see it as only acting. And he ain't the best at that. smiling smiley

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: sweet neo con ()
Date: October 11, 2009 14:55

Quote
skipstone
I like the idea that a large group of certain people call themselves Christians and act like they are perfect, harmless, intelligent innocent people when in fact it's quite the opposite. It's a huge assumption that they have. It's very amusing.

What? I don't know of ONE Christian that thinks they are "perfect"...in fact it is the opposite..they are humble.
It is those people that feel threatened by people with morals & beliefs that are insecure with their own beliefs. IMHO


IORR............but I like it!

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: October 11, 2009 15:06

Quote
sweet neo con
Quote
skipstone
I like the idea that a large group of certain people call themselves Christians and act like they are perfect, harmless, intelligent innocent people when in fact it's quite the opposite. It's a huge assumption that they have. It's very amusing.

What? I don't know of ONE Christian that thinks they are "perfect"...in fact it is the opposite..they are humble.
It is those people that feel threatened by people with morals & beliefs that are insecure with their own beliefs. IMHO

It depends on the individual.
I know a few people who I would trust my life with, but then I work with a guy who is always touting his Christian ways, but in reality is one of the most back-stabbing and hypocritical people I've ever known.
The dude can't figure out why he doesn't get the respect he thinks he deserves. Go figure.


Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: October 11, 2009 16:21

Quote
Edith Grove
Quote
sweet neo con
Quote
skipstone
I like the idea that a large group of certain people call themselves Christians and act like they are perfect, harmless, intelligent innocent people when in fact it's quite the opposite. It's a huge assumption that they have. It's very amusing.

What? I don't know of ONE Christian that thinks they are "perfect"...in fact it is the opposite..they are humble.
It is those people that feel threatened by people with morals & beliefs that are insecure with their own beliefs. IMHO

It depends on the individual.
I know a few people who I would trust my life with, but then I work with a guy who is always touting his Christian ways, but in reality is one of the most back-stabbing and hypocritical people I've ever known.
The dude can't figure out why he doesn't get the respect he thinks he deserves. Go figure.

If Church or Synagogoue, Mosque, Buddah, Hindu makes you happy then participate. L.O. will not, however, accept any brainwashing or political activities by these organizations.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: October 11, 2009 20:09

...just saying........the Stones are a band that makes you wanna dance.,.....if that's not movement....I don't know what is.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: sweetcharmedlife ()
Date: October 11, 2009 20:20




It moved.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Date: October 11, 2009 21:16

It's a "deep" post Otonneau. The Stones are just to cool to move me to tears. They move me just as deeply, but not in that way. I can get choked up watching "Sophie's Choice" e.g. but when I get as moved as can be by the Stones it is a chilled to the bone, it is a positive feeling thru and thru. The fact that Jagger and the Stones do NOT show much is exactly part of what gives me the chills.
The whole beginning of "Ladies & Gents" when they come out, and every frame, every blip my eyes dart to is drenched in so much ultra coolness that I am just frozen , and in awe. Jagger bumping like that, and smacking some imaginary gum. Keith with those streaks and rotten teeth shaking his head. But it is everything else too: the fact that I know Charlie is a jazz drummer, and should be above all this, but gives it his all musically, and his whole life, it just is so great. Because it proves to me that they all know how good they are; how much respect each has for the other. Taylor soloing and Jagger looking at him in amazement. Bobby shaking the tambourine during JJF in the finale, his eyes glued on Jagger.
This is just ONE example.
there are musical moments that move me in a major way. But take e.g.
Take Mahler's 5th , and it is something that will make you literally cry.
Then take Jagger starting those raps towards the end of B&B's "Hot Stuff".
Both leave me speechless, and I think at day's end, the Stones' impression lives with me deeper.

Re: moving, moved, or else?
Posted by: otonneau ()
Date: October 12, 2009 00:20

PalaceRevolution, love the way you put it.



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