Could the "Virgin Mary " doll be someone else ?

Swaystones, bonjour, tres chere,

if you ask me. she could be anyone, it's just that someone named her Virgin Mary and all took it for granted.

What I don't get is why Mr John Sealander calls that doll Jemima. All record I found of Jemima was that she was Job's first daughter. So? And about that white head cover, that's been a standard headdress with living memory.

Now I feel that slowly we'll have to call in the advice of the doll creators/ artists themselves. Can we find a way to them?

Aunt Jemima is a brand name in the United States; the logo's been updated to something less racist,
but it used to be a "mammy" type character with a red-and-white bandanna on her head.
i couldn't find the old logo itself on line but the wikipedia page gives a general idea: [en.wikipedia.org]
the writer who mentioned that character doesn't seem have taken a very good look at the inflatable on the VL stage,
and i'm not at all sure he means the Virgin-Mary-looking one.

and that commandment (which is not uniquely Jewish - it's a commandment in Christianity as well)
is generally understood as "don't make/worship idols", not as a ban on images altogther.

i asked this (sort of) back on page one, but were all the inflatables inflated at the same time?
the photos of them in daylight show a different configuration than the shots taken during the show.
maybe the dice appeared during a different song



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-13 18:02 by with sssoul.

<<<Aunt Jemima is a brand of pancake syrup etc in the United States;
the logo included a "mammy" type character with a red-and-white bandanna on her head. >>>


I knew that already .Didn't you read my post above ?

Quote
SwayStones
.Of course I didn't know who was "Aount Gemima " so I've googled the name ,and as I couldn't be the trademark for pancakes ,


What do you think ?

<<<and that commandment (which is not uniquely Jewish - it's a commandment in Christianity as well)>>>



You must be kidding !!! It's a commandment from the the Old Testament .

Isaiah 42

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory I will not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

The catholics churches are full of Jesus and Virgin Marie 's statues ,paintings ,cult of the angels...etc .
In churches ,theere are graven images of Mary wich is idolitry. They also show Jesus on the cross in all their churches.



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-13 18:34 by SwayStones.

Aunt Jemima is a brand name in the United States.

Yes, sssoul, sorry, I was blinded by rainbows, but now I see. Thanks. That John Sealander guy meant that pancake flour etc brand of Aunt Jemima's and not Job's daughter from the Bible.

Here's a nice collection of pics.

[images.google.de]

Here's Aunt Jemima.

Maybe the dice appeared during a different song.

That'd fit to Tumbling Dice, then.

(Something wrong with my IT, I have to post in bits.)

Quote
dead.flowers
Here's Aunt Jemima.

But but ...I can't see this doll on the stage....
Can you tell me where it is ?



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

... i know where the commandment is from, SwayStones. the text of the decalogue is in Exodus,
and it's the same famous ten commandments that Christianity has.
there are slight differences in the way different religions number them, but it's the same ten.
(Christianity has quite a lot in common with Judaism, you know ... )

and actually that particular photo is Hattie McDaniel, who played the character Mammy in Gone With the Wind -
there are various incarnations of the Aunt Jemima on that page of images, though.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-13 19:17 by with sssoul.

>> But but ...I can't see this doll on the stage....confused smiley
Can you tell me where it is ? <<

it is not on the Voodoo Lounge stage. the writer you were quoting seems to have been joking,
and obviously didn't get a good look at the figures.

>> I knew that already .Didn't you read my post above ? <<

Swaystones, i was responding to dead.flowers, who apparently didn't notice the pancake connection -
i hope that's okay with you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-13 18:41 by with sssoul.

Quote
dead.flowers
Could the "Virgin Mary " doll be someone else ?

Swaystones, bonjour, tres chere,

.Now I feel that slowly we'll have to call in the advice of the doll creators/ artists themselves. Can we find a way to them?

Should we call "Brilliant Stages Ltd" ? If I remember well ,they engineered and supplied The VL back wall of the stage...

Don't count me in ,I wouldn't dare to "google " inflatable dolls ....



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

.



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-13 18:49 by SwayStones.

I believe the person to ask is Mark Fischer
He designed the whole stuff, he's the one who might know

I will check if there's something about the VL decor in his book

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

Should we call "Brilliant Stages Ltd" ? If I remember well ,they engineered and supplied The VL back wall of the stage...

Would you like to follow that up, Swaystones.

And, sssoul, thanks for your hint to the pancake connection. Since I am neither a native speaker nor from the States, Mr Sealanders Aunt Jemima joke simply didn't reach me.

glad i helped, dead.flowers - meanwhile i did a little further research and ... well, see my edited post above:
[images.google.de] does include a few versions of the Aunt Jemima logo,
but that photo of Hattie McDaniel is a different incarnation of the "Mammy" stereotype.

I knew a guy who went undercover in the pancake connection; lived, breathed, slept with them for months. He came out a changed man.

glad i helped, dead.flowers - meanwhile i did a little further research and ... well, see my edited post above:
[images.google.de] does include a few versions of the Aunt Jemima logo,
but that photo of Hattie McDaniel is a different incarnation of the "Mammy" stereotype.

Well, I hardly dare to ask Hattie Who???

I know we must stick to the board political correctness, but the bottom left pic on tthe first page of that image collection is rather hilarious.

>> Hattie Who??? <<

sorry! see my earlier post: Hattie McDaniel is the actress who played the Mammy character
in the film Gone With the Wind. but to get back (at least sort of!) to the topic at hand:

>> That'd fit to Tumbling Dice, then. <<

yes, that's what i was thinking. i'll see if any of the VL footage i have clarifies anything ...

I checked in Mark Fischer's book and here's the quote :

"12 inflatables that could be deployed under 30 seconds.
The bizarre cast included Durga, a Black Friar, Baron Samedi, a goat's head, an alarm clock, Elvis, a cobra, the Madonna, a one-armed baby and various assorted beads."

Now we know

Here's Durga :


A black friar is a dominican priest.

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

cool - thanks Doc!

and just for easy reference, here are the photos of the stage from page 1:





- both courtesy of the people who posted them the first time :E

Quote
with sssoul

i asked this (sort of) back on page one, but were all the inflatables inflated at the same time?
the photos of them in daylight show a different configuration than the shots taken during the show.
maybe the dice appeared during a different song

Here's a theory: there were probably 3 stages on tour. What if they were not equally equiped? These last pics you refer to are not necessarily shot in the same stadium.

Wow, thanks for the research, Doc, and the beautiful pic of Durga.

Here's a theory: there were probably 3 stages on tour. What if they were not equally equiped? These last pics you refer to are not necessarily shot in the same stadium.

That'll explain, Limbo,

And, it's not the Dalai Lama but a one-armed baby.

>> a one-armed baby <<

yep - except that in both photos it sure appears to have two arms (at least the way i'm looking at it).
it's funny that i hadn't noticed the alarm clock or the (inflatable) cobra,
but after reading the quote from Fischer they're suddenly quite visible.

WHAT ABOUT THE LAMP!!!???

... what about it? (and are you shouting about one of the inflatables in one of the photos, or ... ?)

Ha ha. No, I've never seen it. Mick has talked about it. Voodoo tour. Has anyone seen it? From what Mick said it was on stage for the first few shows. OK so it's not an inflatable but it was a stage prop, hence why I'm attempting to find out about it since this does involve the Voodoo stage. And someone mentioned the cage from the NS tour.

I have a question: could it have been that there were different levels of decoration? Like - if they were in NYC or LA they had everyone up there; but in Wisconsin, maybe just pulled the Pope and a couple of Elvises out?
reason I ask is I saw them in Jersey, Little Rock, (I think), Atalanta, and somehwere else. And I just don't recall those dolls every show.

I don't think so...
Due to the size of the stage, they had 3 structures but I believe they only use one sound and light system, one screen and one decor.

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

Quote
with sssoul
>> a one-armed baby <<
<<it's funny that i hadn't noticed the alarm clock or the (inflatable) cobra,
>>>

yep - except that in both photos it sure appears to have two arms (at least the way i'm looking at it).
it's funny that i hadn't noticed the alarm clock or the (inflatable) cobra,
but after reading the quote from Fischer they're suddenly quite visible.

Yes ,I do agree agree with you ,withssoul ,the baby has got two arms.
I can see the clockwork but what's about the inflatable cobra ??

I can't see it ...
Help needed ..



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Quote
Doc
I checked in Mark Fischer's book and here's the quote :

"12 inflatables that could be deployed under 30 seconds.
The bizarre cast included Durga, a Black Friar, Baron Samedi, a goat's head, an alarm clock, Elvis, a cobra, the Madonna, a one-armed baby and various assorted bea

Many thanks, Doc !



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

At the time, they were a bit of a laugh.

...I stress, at the time.