Winning Ulgy doesn't know what tongue in cheek is (Dear Doctor) and thinks Rock And A Hard Place is a better song than Dear Doctor.

That pretty much says it all. Bad music is what is good, not good music. But don't cry Winning Ulgy, you can join ranks with Taylor Era and go work at McDonald's, since that is your sort of insult on here.

What's amazing is that Dear Doctor is a fantastic song that is obviously a funny story with a great melody and great lyrics. Oh yeah - and a dumb voice.

Unlike...whatever it is Winning Ugly thinks is good. Oh and by the way I'm an educated degenerate that doesn't use such third grade insults to start some sort of quasi-insulting post. I don't need to say why or what I think makes the songs better - they just are. It's obvious. And you are obvious.

I almost hate to say this........
But I quite liked Winning Ugly!


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
skipstone
Beggars, even though founded with the acoustic guitar, is a rock'n'roll album deeply based in blues, not so much "the blues" but just blues.

With experimental psychedelic touches! The more unusual instruments are only part of that, it's not just that those instruments are being used, it's how they are used, same with the more traditional rock music instruments at times.

For example, there's electric slide guitar, but it's hardly being used in a traditional way(the slide and mellotron on JP isn't psychedelic?), same with the ol acoustic guitar on Street Fighting Man, total experimental thinking behind that.

The more straight ahead tracks on Beggars soften the experimental nature of tracks like Jigsaw Puzzle and Street Fighting Man, but at the same time also give them power. Tis a masterpiece of sequencing, arranging and production, where the unusual sits happily with the traditional.

Cut out the flowery dressing on satanic and what followed in 1968 is already essentially in place in 1967. There are many common musical threads between the 2 years and albums.

Have you listened to the satanic sessions box sets?

Anyway, I won't go down the name calling road and will just agree to disagree with you.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2009-08-09 23:06 by His Majesty.

I really like the notion that the session recordings of an album are closer to revealing the "real" vision of the band; that the released album is more the "product" with the dressings etc. E.g I lost sight of this with "Steel Wheels"; had to hear the SW Sessions to bring back to mind that this is, and will always be the Stones, a blues band.
Satanic Session Box Set shows a band hard at work; playing basically British type R&B rock. I have to come back to the producer angle again: I wonder, had Jimmy Miller arrived one album earlier - what "Satanic" would have become. IMO Satanic does not lack songs at all; could've used a bossman.
I think "Banquet" has a god bit of experimentation on it. I hear it in the more traditional songs; maybe it is the very rootsiness, that is daring in itself. "Prodigal Son" stripped bare, "No Expectations" - naked, the recording technique of acoustic guitar that Keith was pushing on SFM- but "Parachute Woman" sounds even more raw and compressed.
"Symapthy" is of course genius. What really gets me about this song is how sparse it is. No way they could ever do a song like this today. They'd overdo it, with session percussionists, xtra guitars etc. SFTD is what ? Charlie on kick and rimshots, Bill on shakers, Rocky on congas. Nicky on the piano, Keith on Bass. Keith's solo. So it is essentially percussion plus Bass and a piano. (ooh ooh) Amazing.

The responses to the original post in this thread have shown that people hear the same music differently. By that I mean that what we hear is "filtered" because of our individual make-up.

I happen to disagree with Edward Twining's suggestion that Beggars Banquet might be the Stones' greatest album but if he would lend me his ears, I'd be able to get even more out of it. Of course, I'd get less from my personal favourite.

Interesting as it is to discuss this topic, all I can say is: each to his own.

I like Winning Ulgy too - just not for this crap here.

Ha ha - His Majesty, you are a stubborn git!

Obviously we come from different skools in music. Where you hear psychedelic on Beggars I hear...just instruments. I guess we'd have to ask the band about it. I doubt they think of it as that way.

It really doesn't matter. It's a fuucking great album no matter what any trog says about some songs on it.

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

"Symapthy" is of course genius.

Truly is!

For sure most people would have killed that song even back then with too much guitars or something.

Quote
skipstone
Ha ha - His Majesty, you are a stubborn git!

Obviously we come from different skools in music. Where you hear psychedelic on Beggars I hear...just instruments. I guess we'd have to ask the band about it. I doubt they think of it as that way.

It really doesn't matter. It's a fuucking great album no matter what any trog says about some songs on it.

Stubborn? For sure! Only because I believe in what i'm saying and think that the box set etc back it up. I'm not just trying to be awkward for kicks or anything like that.

I totally agree with you on the last bit!

Then I guess we're both stubborn gits.

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

SFTD is what ? Charlie on kick and rimshots, Bill on shakers, Rocky on congas. Nicky on the piano, Keith on Bass. Keith's solo. So it is essentially percussion plus Bass and a piano. (ooh ooh) Amazing.

Not forgetting the best (electric) guitar solo of all time.
Short, sweet and completely right!


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
skipstone
Then I guess we're both stubborn gits.

It's the only way to be!

I agree with His Majesty that there is a natural development/progression between Satanic and Beggars, and not a sudden change. (Never mind if it´s called psychedelic or not!)
Try this track order: She´s A Rainbow / 2000 Light Years / Citadel / Child Of The Moon / Pay Your Dues / Jumpin´ Jack Flash / Jigsaw Puzzle.

I believe that Jimmy Miller did influence the sound of Beggars onwards,
but perhaps the most significiant factor is/was the musical "maturing" of Keith Richards and that he and Mick wrote their greatest songs in the next few years.

I'm glad I'm not alone in hearing this connection between Their Satanic Majesties Request and Beggars Banquet! Or make that more 1967 - 1968.

It makes more sense when you listen to the sessions and outtakes rather than just the albums themselves.

How about Aftermath ? It has never been cited.

My list :

1. Sticky Fingers
2. Aftermath
3. Black and Blue
3. Love You live
4. Exile (beautiful songs, awful songs)
5. Emotionnal rescue
6. Beggars banquet...

Hope no-one objects if I throw a slightly random question into the discussion, but does anyone know the location of the 'toilet' cover? Or was it simply an artistic set-up?

ROCKMAN

Thanks, Rockman - it always reminds me of a particularly dingy downstairs 'Gents' in a pub I used to frequent in the Kings Road, Chelsea......which has long since been refurbished and (supposedly) improved!

With reference to Winning Ugly's comments about the Stones 66-67 period being their worst - the one thing i love about the sixties was the fact there appeared a greater opportunity to diversify your sound and be creative, without the spectre of commercialism forever casting a long shadow. I think in more recent years popular music has become too catagorised, and in many ways trivialised as artists are forever trying to corner the market of their own niche. Maybe the music the Stones created in 66-67 didn't always suit them as well as it might, but at least the Stones (and other artists) were not shackled to a template and expected to keep churning out variations on the same musical theme. 66-67 was endlessly fascinating, as well for the Stones occasionally not always fulfilling. It wasn't until 1968 that they managed to make music they appeared fully confident with, at least over the course of an album.