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Grison
With all respect to the critics and idolism I would like to drop a few lines.

1) If the Stones would do like proposed 3 indigo shows it would be a money making thing for Ticketmaster and ebayers. How on earth would they be able to distribute it to the "SUperfans"? So rather leave it out.

2) The Stones began to vary the setlists gradually in 1989 and by 2003 we got like 30 different songs in 3 shows if you have been lucky to get the 3plot concert.

3) Bigger Bang did also bring up songs. And of course they will hold the 10 warhorses to keep the audience going. I would have loved to see a different show at least the last night at O2, but it did not happen. Still I got the song SHE WAS HOT which was just great.

4) There is no band despite warhorse shows which had the chance to last for more than four decades now.

If they go, I mean if they really would go, again on Tour you will face warhorses again. So either get used to it or criticise without obligation.

Even if I did not see as many shows as BV I am thankful for every minute of each show I was able to spend to see my favourite band.

<<< If the Stones would do like proposed 3 indigo shows it would be a money making thing for Ticketmaster and ebayers. How on earth would they be able to distribute it to the "SUperfans"? >>>

Well, in order to limit the damage and unfairness or downright exploitation that would be caused by ebayers, re-sellers/scalpers/those out to exploit ... they'd have to give it some thought and get a little creative. In other words, make a little bit of an "effort" to actually help the larger proportion of the tickets get into the right hands, so to say. Any harm in asking them to make that kind of an effort, instead of just coasting and eternally taking the easy option ?

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ablett
"mediocre sold-out world tour"

Contradiction aint it?

no.

It's not a contradiction because...it won't and wouldn't sell out. Bang didn't.

but ain't is a contraction if that's any consolation....

I am just cynical. You can not teach an old dog to sit down. So asking Mick to release unfinished art simply does not appeal to him or his PR people. I do understand. He make art and he decide what art should be made public.

This goes for everything they do actually. If there is a picture they don't like (their PR people) then it will not be approved. It is all about branding and image. Alice Cooper without makeup is not Alice Cooper. The Stones without all of this hard to get hold of stuff is not the Rolling Stones. After 47 years I think we have to accept that. We may of course not like it, we may hate it, but I have had two dogs, they did never listen to me when it came to sitting down, because they had a mind of their own when it came to such matters. May be I was on tour too often...

Bjornulf

obviously it doesn't appeal to him. mick does what he wants....wow, what a concept. but that hardly contradicts the notion that he's out of touch with the fans....

LOL Bjornulf. Very good story about your dogs

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

i would think it worthwhile for the band to release 10/10 quality versions of a live Europe/Aussie 1973 show/dvd or US Tour 1972 lost live album/re-vamped Ladies & gents....don't think it too worthwhile to release unfinished studio stuff.

BV - your comments may come back to haunt you once the great man can't be arsed touring and making easy cash off people (teenagers/early 20s) who haven't seen the Stones perform. I'd like to know how many people would pay a further $200 to watch the band play again should they tour in the future ..?! It will be Live Licks version 3...

Lets face it, bv & ablett & every any other Stones "superfan" will go and pay for any Stones show and be impressed no matter how much it sucked (god help the people who disagree), would pay for any Stones turd burger and enjoy it & any Stones bit of dirty laundry, but other "real fans" want some classic live unreleased gem, polished and circulated properly...not just as a lazy bootleg....

"t's not a contradiction because...it won't and wouldn't sell out. Bang didn't."

Bang didn't sell out?

"It has become the highest grossing tour of all time with $558,255,524 earned"

I'd say a success? If the stones live is such a dreadful proposition these days why have all the tours since 1989 been the highest grossing? If it was that dire joe public wouldn't bother eh???

Just because they have impressive gross sales, doesn't necessarily mean it was good musically. Look at all the shitty hollywood movies that have impressive sales.
Yes, it may be successful financially, but who will remember mediocre movies or tours one year or a few years removed?
Here's a list of some good and shitty movies.

[en.wikipedia.org]

"Just because they have impressive gross sales, doesn't necessarily mean it was good musically"

I'm not saying that. I'm replying to someone stating that the tour wasn't a success.

And pre 'the fall' I'd say the tour was very good.

These threads always come along when nothings happening.

Random thoughts:

1. I'm not sure it's important for an artist to stay in touch with the fans. I don't see how an effort to know and implement what the fans want would result in better art -- in fact, it seems more likely to compromise the art.

2. A number of the people that complain about the band losing touch are actually not fans of the current band-- they are former fans, so their complaint really is that the band is out of touch with its former fans. These former fans typically want more Mick Taylor (not that there's anything wrong with that) and less Chuck, etc, so they are impossible to please with anything other than releasing the archives.

3. Yes, there are probably 10 or so shows I'd love to have in perfect soundboard. However, as to the outtakes -- while there are some really enjoyable or interesting moments there for the hard core fans, my opinion is the band has made pretty good choices over the years about what to release.

4. For those that go on about how horrible the band is now, many of us prefer what they did before, but there is nothing particularly insightful about pointing out over and over that some skills decline with age.

5. Yes, I would go see them again -- they still do a great show, especially if you compare them to what else is available rather than what they did 35-40 years ago. Recently, I watched an Arcade Fire show filmed for television and really enjoyed it -- I thought the music was thoughtful and inventive, and the show was lively and entertaining. The next day I watched Shine a Light, which I had seen in the theater and found somewhat disappointing. But, in comparing the performance in Shine a Light to Arcade Fire's performance, it was obvious that the Stones, even at this age on that night, were operating on a much higher level than the young ones in terms of energy, entertainment and, yes, musicianship.

Here is all you need for Brussels 1973...original KBFH tapes...
Also pictured are the 1978 tapes.



JR

Re: Stones not in touch with their fans
Posted by: ablett ()
Date: May 5, 2009 19:03


It wouldn't be that quite a few million enjoyed the ABB tour apart from you two?

- Well, yeah, a few million because most of them probably never saw the Stones before, and waet to see them as an artifact, like going to a museum to see some fossils or going to see a Panda at the Zoo before they go extinct. Don't get me wrong, I love the Stones, but the band soley exists and has since 1981 or so as a corporation, not a band.

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Taylor Era
Re: Stones not in touch with their fans
Posted by: ablett ()
Date: May 5, 2009 19:03


It wouldn't be that quite a few million enjoyed the ABB tour apart from you two?

- Well, yeah, a few million because most of them probably never saw the Stones before, and waet to see them as an artifact, like going to a museum to see some fossils or going to see a Panda at the Zoo before they go extinct. Don't get me wrong, I love the Stones, but the band soley exists and has since 1981 or so as a corporation, not a band.

I agree. Here's a contributing point. If any of your friends won the lottery do you think they would share?? Think twice if you're ever in their position.

Reality Check: Keith is not gonna come over and cook you breakfast and do the dishes, Mick ain't gonna wash and fold your laundry, and Charlie is not gonna change the oil in your car, and Ronnie is not gonna mow the lawn. They gave us a lot of music, lived their lives in the public eye for how many years, and they make time for their families, quiet time, etc. They're trying to have a life in addition to the band. I can see how they would love their own time, on their own terms. Wouldn't we all.

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MKjan
Reality Check: Keith is not gonna come over and cook you breakfast and do the dishes, Mick ain't gonna wash and fold your laundry, and Charlie is not gonna change the oil in your car, and Ronnie is not gonna mow the lawn. They gave us a lot of music, lived their lives in the public eye for how many years, and they make time for their families, quiet time, etc. They're trying to have a life in addition to the band. I can see how they would love their own time, on their own terms. Wouldn't we all.

so, sounds like you'd agree with the subject line statement?

"Well, yeah, a few million because most of them probably never saw the Stones before, and waet to see them as an artifact, like going to a museum"

I hear this time after time on these threads. If thats was the case how come the stones can put on a massive tour every couple of years? Surely you don't think its fresh punters everytime? Or is it the case that other than a few 'hardcores' the Stones are enjoyed to a very large degree by joe public and their fans

no

Thanks for that concise and intelligent answer!

Says it all really.....

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ablett
Thanks for that concise and intelligent answer!

Says it all really.....

In my book music has at least something to do with art. The success of their greatest hits amongst their increasingly pedestrian live audiences does not really surprise, a lot of those people only know a handful of Stones songs.

The artifact - like going to a museum comparison is definitely not too far off the mark.

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StonesTod

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MKjan
Reality Check: Keith is not gonna come over and cook you breakfast and do the dishes, Mick ain't gonna wash and fold your laundry, and Charlie is not gonna change the oil in your car, and Ronnie is not gonna mow the lawn. They gave us a lot of music, lived their lives in the public eye for how many years, and they make time for their families, quiet time, etc. They're trying to have a life in addition to the band. I can see how they would love their own time, on their own terms. Wouldn't we all.

so, sounds like you'd agree with the subject line statement?

I agree they have a crappy RS's website, and I would rather they play a more varied setlist, and not sure what the real reason is that more stuff isn't released. I am not sure if this means they don't care, I think it's easy to say they don't care if you feel they owe you. I have a wish list of what I would like to see from them, but if it doesn't happen, it's not a personal slight for me.

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bv
I don't agree. They have regorded certain songs and they are their original art. Any rehearsals and unfinished songs are not for the publig. An artist should be free to relese or rerect a work, and it is the sole right of the artist to protect his/her works. I have all the Stones unfinished works and I am lucky to be able to listen to them as a specially interested fan, but I can't see why they should release 40 minutes of Sympathy For The Devil recordings or 100 alternate takes with premature unfinished songs from a certain album. They choose how they should be viewede in the market. They do not want the radio to play anything unfinished. Simple as that.

The latest tour A Bigger Bang was voted most popular tour ever, and most of the songs as voted on in the IORR Stones poll was listing the songs the Stones did perform on that tour, so I do not agree on the statement about them not performing popular songs.

I never go to RS.com but they are a band you know, not a web site. I bet Keith don't have a PC. Why should they care about the web? I would rather see them live than see them on a web site trying to sell me records I do already have.

They care about the fans for sure and I have been experiencing that since my very first contact with them many many years ago.

BV....you are so correct. I think the boys do care for their fans. If they didn't they would wrap it up and say finished. But they continue to tour to see their fans.

oh, and here i was stupidly thinking they were touring to make millions of dollars....

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StonesTod
oh, and here i was stupidly thinking they were touring to make millions of dollars....

you poor misguided fool, you!

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alimente

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StonesTod
oh, and here i was stupidly thinking they were touring to make millions of dollars....

you poor misguided fool, you!

i feel better knowing it's because they are in touch with me and just wanna give back for all that i've given them....

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tippy2toes

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bv
I don't agree. They have regorded certain songs and they are their original art. Any rehearsals and unfinished songs are not for the publig. An artist should be free to relese or rerect a work, and it is the sole right of the artist to protect his/her works. I have all the Stones unfinished works and I am lucky to be able to listen to them as a specially interested fan, but I can't see why they should release 40 minutes of Sympathy For The Devil recordings or 100 alternate takes with premature unfinished songs from a certain album. They choose how they should be viewede in the market. They do not want the radio to play anything unfinished. Simple as that.

The latest tour A Bigger Bang was voted most popular tour ever, and most of the songs as voted on in the IORR Stones poll was listing the songs the Stones did perform on that tour, so I do not agree on the statement about them not performing popular songs.

I never go to RS.com but they are a band you know, not a web site. I bet Keith don't have a PC. Why should they care about the web? I would rather see them live than see them on a web site trying to sell me records I do already have.

They care about the fans for sure and I have been experiencing that since my very first contact with them many many years ago.

BV....you are so correct. I think the boys do care for their fans. If they didn't they would wrap it up and say finished. But they continue to tour to see their fans.

I agree. I think they play so many warhorses because they don't want to disappoint anyone, it's not that they don't care.

I'm not sure how to rate how "in touch" they are with their fans, but I get the impression that they're in touch with themselves, and that's all I really care about.

My dog who never cared about sitting down, just like Mick, don't really follow up on what fans demand him to do:



He was guarding the IORR T-shirts. The most loyal dog and friend you could have, but he did not like to be asked to sit down. That is why he is luying down in front of the shirts...

Bjornulf

I believe RARITIES (as flawed as it was) acted as a sort of test balloon for these waters; sadly, I think with the unenthusiastic response, the band will probably respond likewise.

Love your dog BV, Keif's spirit guide for sure!

Yeah, folks, chill...I am sure when they do "retire" we will get the goods.