Tell Me :
Talk
Wasn't the rock and roll more or less a bastard child of the white kids imitating black artists. The Stones, with some of their British contempories - invented the whole idea of a rock band - no matter what Americans say - even though they wouldn't even classify themselves as one at the time. They were never a really "good" cover band at all, fortunately (I mean if you really think the blues in terms of the masters themselves: Muddy Waters, Elmore James...)
I think "I Wanna Be your Man" is a great example of how a rock band sound like: a stupid pop song played with no hostages taken "roots" attitude - the much talked Jones guitar solo has no equivalants in recorded history prior that: it is not the goddamn slide - it is what is done with it! It bloody screams!
Generally, straight from the start the Stones is a good example what a rock and roll band is all about; the blues is a kind of foundation, but they never been any "purists" or very consciouness of the genres - they do whatever pleases them and make it "roll". They define rock and roll. (I think there are two senses of the term: one referring to Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and those classical fifties rock and rollers, and then there is this larger concept of rock and roll, or just "rock music" referring to kind of variant style created in the 60's. The Stones is the essential example of the latter sort. The greatest of them all)
- Doxa
Sorry about that Amsterdamned!! (didn't check before sending) ... that should say I totally agree with ALL of them!
Awww man, lucky you!! Didn't they play at Cobo Hall? I had soooo wanted to go to this, but was only 10 years old at the time, and needless to say, my dad was NOT a rock N roll fan (and really hated the Stones/Brian, cuz he hated the 'hold' they had on me LOL)
I'd love to hear about this concert sometime, if ya got the time, Marv
What are you talking about? Elmore James is not rock n' roll. Elmore James is blues, pure and simple. There is a difference between blues and rock, and the Stones were true rock pioneers, taking elements of blues and creating a new kind of rock 'sound'. Lastly, you say the Stones weren't a rock band until Beggars Banquet? How on earth have you come up with that assumption? That's a head-scratcher.
You hit it right on the head, Doxa. In a sense, rock and roll took a big leap forward with that solo.
what does brian play on "Heart of Stone"? and on "19th," does he play the "Diddley Daddy" riff, or does keith play both guitars?
I absolutely agree. The most important thing is that Brian turned his Vox AC-30 fully open and blasted the treblebooster to create this encredible wild punk solo.
Mathijs
I agree a great deal with what you wrote except the last line.
Jones only plays the acoustic on Satisfaction. All the electric guitar you hear
is Keith. Jones' greatest influence is certainly the Aftermath sessions
and Ruby Tuesday. Funny how he's kind of absent on Between The Buttons
but is all over Satanic Majesties and does some nice coloring (like Aftermath)
on Beggars Banquet. Too bad Charlie does't think too much of him now either.
Jones actually does not play at all on Satisfaction. All guitars are Keith. There's a version with overdubbed harmonica by Jones though.
There's quite some interviews where all Stones state that they recorded it as a demo while on the road, with Jones being away (according to Wyman he was in a hospital).Tambourine is overdubbed by Jack Nitzsche. There's pictures of the recording session, with Keith overdubbing the acoustic.
Mathijs
Rarely enough,I agree,Mathijs.
Absolute bliss, thanks for posting
Are you meaning the Gered Mankowitz pics where Keith has shades on and is playing a hummingbird? I think you've said those are from satisfaction session before, but they're from later.
Any direct quotes where any of the band say Brian didn't play acoustic?
OT: I have doubts that Keith played the slide 12string on MLH, the 1966 live version featuring Brian playing 12 string sounds pretty bang on like the studio version. I guess it's a possible 'Keith misremembering' moment.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-28 18:31 by His Majesty.
so you're pretty sure then, eh?
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: April 26, 2009 15:37
You listen to Elmore James and tell me that's not rock'n'roll I'll buy you an acre of wetlands and plant you in it for the alligators to have a snack with....
At the time the Stones were imitating blues AND Chuck Berry AND the likes of Motown. So I dunno if they would truly be considered a "rock band" in that aspect. I don't think that happened until Beggars Banquet actually.
But then again, to me, it's all rock'n'roll, Muddy etc and Chuck etc and Hank etc.
At the time the Stones were imitating blues AND Chuck Berry AND the likes of Motown. So I dunno if they would truly be considered a "rock band" in that aspect. I don't think that happened until Beggars Banquet actually.
But then again, to me, it's all rock'n'roll, Muddy etc and Chuck etc and Hank etc.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 26, 2009 17:45
Quote
skipstone
You listen to Elmore James and tell me that's not rock'n'roll I'll buy you an acre of wetlands and plant you in it for the alligators to have a snack with....
At the time the Stones were imitating blues AND Chuck Berry AND the likes of Motown. So I dunno if they would truly be considered a "rock band" in that aspect. I don't think that happened until Beggars Banquet actually.
But then again, to me, it's all rock'n'roll, Muddy etc and Chuck etc and Hank etc.
Wasn't the rock and roll more or less a bastard child of the white kids imitating black artists. The Stones, with some of their British contempories - invented the whole idea of a rock band - no matter what Americans say - even though they wouldn't even classify themselves as one at the time. They were never a really "good" cover band at all, fortunately (I mean if you really think the blues in terms of the masters themselves: Muddy Waters, Elmore James...)
I think "I Wanna Be your Man" is a great example of how a rock band sound like: a stupid pop song played with no hostages taken "roots" attitude - the much talked Jones guitar solo has no equivalants in recorded history prior that: it is not the goddamn slide - it is what is done with it! It bloody screams!
Generally, straight from the start the Stones is a good example what a rock and roll band is all about; the blues is a kind of foundation, but they never been any "purists" or very consciouness of the genres - they do whatever pleases them and make it "roll". They define rock and roll. (I think there are two senses of the term: one referring to Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and those classical fifties rock and rollers, and then there is this larger concept of rock and roll, or just "rock music" referring to kind of variant style created in the 60's. The Stones is the essential example of the latter sort. The greatest of them all)
- Doxa
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: April 26, 2009 18:14
I agree with you,skipstone that WE might not see the difference with Elmore and what some later so called r n r bands were doing. But I'm not sure if any of Elmores singles were ever on the "pop" or "rock n roll" charts by whoever decided where these songs fit! For instance Carl Perkins "Blue Suede Shoes" topped the Pop,Country AND Rythm n Blues charts(supposedly).I wonder how that happened?
I mean,the song IS that good but how did get airplay on ALL stations? Payola?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-26 18:33 by scottkeef.
I mean,the song IS that good but how did get airplay on ALL stations? Payola?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-26 18:33 by scottkeef.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Tseverin
()
Date: April 26, 2009 18:15
Paint It, Black & We Love You
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
phd
()
Date: April 26, 2009 18:32
I would say Aftermath. But honestly it's quite impossible to classify among those foudation years.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
MissNBrian
()
Date: April 26, 2009 18:46
Quote
AmsterdamnedQuote
MissNBrianQuote
Amsterdamned
Difficult to say..the entire Brian area was special.Ruby Tuesday..We love you, Heart of Stone, 19 nervous breakdown Paint it black etc.. all great !
I totally agree with one!!
And that would be?
Sorry about that Amsterdamned!! (didn't check before sending) ... that should say I totally agree with ALL of them!
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
MissNBrian
()
Date: April 26, 2009 18:53
Quote
marvpeck
There are so many to choose from and I certainly don't disagree
with any of those already listed.
This is a very personal opinion for all of us, but for me
it has to be
July 8, 1966 in Detroit, MI
The one and only time I ever got to hear him play live.
Awww man, lucky you!! Didn't they play at Cobo Hall? I had soooo wanted to go to this, but was only 10 years old at the time, and needless to say, my dad was NOT a rock N roll fan (and really hated the Stones/Brian, cuz he hated the 'hold' they had on me LOL)
I'd love to hear about this concert sometime, if ya got the time, Marv
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Keefan
()
Date: April 26, 2009 19:08
I like what Jagger said about Brian when he was giving his acceptance speech when the Stones were inducted into the R-n-R Hall of Fame, that Brian "...often took us off our bluesy course, with at times marvelous results".
That was certainly true of Brian's sitar playing on "Paint It Black", his playing the recorder on "Ruby Tuesday", and the piano & marimbas on "Under my Thumb"...three of my favorite Brian tracks.
And his sax playing on the Beatles' "You Know My Name, Look Up the Number" is pretty damn cool too.
That was certainly true of Brian's sitar playing on "Paint It Black", his playing the recorder on "Ruby Tuesday", and the piano & marimbas on "Under my Thumb"...three of my favorite Brian tracks.
And his sax playing on the Beatles' "You Know My Name, Look Up the Number" is pretty damn cool too.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
neptune
()
Date: April 26, 2009 19:43
Quote
skipstone
You listen to Elmore James and tell me that's not rock'n'roll I'll buy you an acre of wetlands and plant you in it for the alligators to have a snack with....
At the time the Stones were imitating blues AND Chuck Berry AND the likes of Motown. So I dunno if they would truly be considered a "rock band" in that aspect. I don't think that happened until Beggars Banquet actually.
What are you talking about? Elmore James is not rock n' roll. Elmore James is blues, pure and simple. There is a difference between blues and rock, and the Stones were true rock pioneers, taking elements of blues and creating a new kind of rock 'sound'. Lastly, you say the Stones weren't a rock band until Beggars Banquet? How on earth have you come up with that assumption? That's a head-scratcher.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
neptune
()
Date: April 26, 2009 19:47
Quote
Doxa
I think "I Wanna Be your Man" is a great example of how a rock band sound like: a stupid pop song played with no hostages taken "roots" attitude - the much talked Jones guitar solo has no equivalants in recorded history prior that: it is not the goddamn slide - it is what is done with it! It bloody screams!
You hit it right on the head, Doxa. In a sense, rock and roll took a big leap forward with that solo.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
cc
()
Date: April 26, 2009 20:31
Quote
Amsterdamned
Difficult to say..the entire Brian area was special.Ruby Tuesday..We love you, Heart of Stone, 19 nervous breakdown Paint it black etc.. all great !
what does brian play on "Heart of Stone"? and on "19th," does he play the "Diddley Daddy" riff, or does keith play both guitars?
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: April 26, 2009 20:57
Dont know about the studio but Brian plays the "Diddley Daddy" riff on the Ed Sullivan Show. It was also a completely "live" performance.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: April 27, 2009 00:27
Quote
Doxa
I think "I Wanna Be your Man" is a great example of how a rock band sound like: a stupid pop song played with no hostages taken "roots" attitude - the much talked Jones guitar solo has no equivalants in recorded history prior that: it is not the goddamn slide - it is what is done with it! It bloody screams!
- Doxa
I absolutely agree. The most important thing is that Brian turned his Vox AC-30 fully open and blasted the treblebooster to create this encredible wild punk solo.
Mathijs
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: April 27, 2009 01:14
Did you see the Light Mathijs?.............. ;o) just kidding
__________________________
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-27 02:40 by NICOS.
__________________________
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-27 02:40 by NICOS.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Turd On The Run
()
Date: April 28, 2009 02:46
Brian Jones' finest hour?
He had many fine, brilliant, even transcendent moments...with so many different instruments(!)...but the one that touches me most deeply is his playing on No Expectations. It is perhaps the most elegiac, melancholy, deeply mournful guitar playing I have ever heard...so subtle and delicate, yet so powerful.
"I've got no expectations to pass through here again..."
It is as if the words in the song were describing his deepest feelings and he poured his soul into the notes. That 'moment' will stay with me forever...pure genius...
He had many fine, brilliant, even transcendent moments...with so many different instruments(!)...but the one that touches me most deeply is his playing on No Expectations. It is perhaps the most elegiac, melancholy, deeply mournful guitar playing I have ever heard...so subtle and delicate, yet so powerful.
"I've got no expectations to pass through here again..."
It is as if the words in the song were describing his deepest feelings and he poured his soul into the notes. That 'moment' will stay with me forever...pure genius...
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Muppet HiFi
()
Date: April 28, 2009 04:41
Jones was a tremendous musician (in spite of what Richards says); great with other instruments adding color, great guitar player.
Talking about Elmore James- one of his last great moments would have to be his slide playing on "Two Trains Running"; he cops James' tone and phrasing perfectly, and it's a startling contrast to Keith's barb-wire tone he got during the Beggars Banquet sessions. What a haunted performance.
Also, his Rickenbacker tone/attack on the chorus and fade of "It's All Over Now" is one of the toughest sounds I've ever heard an electric guitar make.
edit
h, and he gets the same tone on the verses of Satisfaction, too. always dug his funky licks on that even more than Keiths fuzz line.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-28 05:15 by Muppet HiFi.
Talking about Elmore James- one of his last great moments would have to be his slide playing on "Two Trains Running"; he cops James' tone and phrasing perfectly, and it's a startling contrast to Keith's barb-wire tone he got during the Beggars Banquet sessions. What a haunted performance.
Also, his Rickenbacker tone/attack on the chorus and fade of "It's All Over Now" is one of the toughest sounds I've ever heard an electric guitar make.
edit
h, and he gets the same tone on the verses of Satisfaction, too. always dug his funky licks on that even more than Keiths fuzz line.Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-28 05:15 by Muppet HiFi.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
tomk
()
Date: April 28, 2009 06:06
Quote
Muppet HiFi
Jones was a tremendous musician (in spite of what Richards says); great with other instruments adding color, great guitar player.
Talking about Elmore James- one of his last great moments would have to be his slide playing on "Two Trains Running"; he cops James' tone and phrasing perfectly, and it's a startling contrast to Keith's barb-wire tone he got during the Beggars Banquet sessions. What a haunted performance.
Also, his Rickenbacker tone/attack on the chorus and fade of "It's All Over Now" is one of the toughest sounds I've ever heard an electric guitar make.
edit
I agree a great deal with what you wrote except the last line.
Jones only plays the acoustic on Satisfaction. All the electric guitar you hear
is Keith. Jones' greatest influence is certainly the Aftermath sessions
and Ruby Tuesday. Funny how he's kind of absent on Between The Buttons
but is all over Satanic Majesties and does some nice coloring (like Aftermath)
on Beggars Banquet. Too bad Charlie does't think too much of him now either.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
rootsman
()
Date: April 28, 2009 10:54
Hi everybody!
Some years ago I made my own CD-compilation of what I think is Brian´s best/most important contributions: (not counting basic guitar & percussion)
1. I WANNA BE YOUR MAN (lead/slide, harmony voc)
2. MONA (lead "Bo Diddley"-guitar)
3. NOT FADE AWAY (harmonica)
4. GOOD TIMES, BAD TIMES (harmonica)
5. I CAN´T BE SATISFIED (slide)
6. LOOK WHAT YO´VE DONE (harmonica)
7. LITTLE RED ROOSTER (slide)
8. THE UNDER ASSISTANT... (harmonica) first Singles Collection mix
9. DONCHA BOTHER ME (slide)
10. LADY JANE (dulcimer)
11. UNDER MY THUMB (marimbas)
12. PAINT IT BLACK (sitar)
13. RUBY TUESDAY (recorder, piano) I do believe Brian and Keith wrote this!
14. BACKSTREET GIRL (accordion, organ) unverified?
15. PLEASE GO HOME (lead "psychedelic Bo Diddley"-guitar)
16. DANDELION (harpsichord, soprano sax)
17. WE LOVE YOU (mellotron)
18. 2000 LIGHT YEARS... (mellotron)
19. GOMPER (dulcimer, flute)
20. NO EXPECTATIONS (slide)
Of course there were/are lots of other contenders, but these are what I think are the best songs which he made even greater with his feeling and sounds...
Some years ago I made my own CD-compilation of what I think is Brian´s best/most important contributions: (not counting basic guitar & percussion)
1. I WANNA BE YOUR MAN (lead/slide, harmony voc)
2. MONA (lead "Bo Diddley"-guitar)
3. NOT FADE AWAY (harmonica)
4. GOOD TIMES, BAD TIMES (harmonica)
5. I CAN´T BE SATISFIED (slide)
6. LOOK WHAT YO´VE DONE (harmonica)
7. LITTLE RED ROOSTER (slide)
8. THE UNDER ASSISTANT... (harmonica) first Singles Collection mix
9. DONCHA BOTHER ME (slide)
10. LADY JANE (dulcimer)
11. UNDER MY THUMB (marimbas)
12. PAINT IT BLACK (sitar)
13. RUBY TUESDAY (recorder, piano) I do believe Brian and Keith wrote this!
14. BACKSTREET GIRL (accordion, organ) unverified?
15. PLEASE GO HOME (lead "psychedelic Bo Diddley"-guitar)
16. DANDELION (harpsichord, soprano sax)
17. WE LOVE YOU (mellotron)
18. 2000 LIGHT YEARS... (mellotron)
19. GOMPER (dulcimer, flute)
20. NO EXPECTATIONS (slide)
Of course there were/are lots of other contenders, but these are what I think are the best songs which he made even greater with his feeling and sounds...
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: April 28, 2009 11:08
Quote
I agree a great deal with what you wrote except the last line.
Jones only plays the acoustic on Satisfaction. All the electric guitar you hear
is Keith.
Jones actually does not play at all on Satisfaction. All guitars are Keith. There's a version with overdubbed harmonica by Jones though.
There's quite some interviews where all Stones state that they recorded it as a demo while on the road, with Jones being away (according to Wyman he was in a hospital).Tambourine is overdubbed by Jack Nitzsche. There's pictures of the recording session, with Keith overdubbing the acoustic.
Mathijs
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 28, 2009 11:17
Close call between Paint It Black and I Wanna Be Your Man. Both are magical, imo.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
shortfatfanny
()
Date: April 28, 2009 11:17
Quote
Mathijs
I would go for No Expectations myself. His slide is truly superb. This man really has the blues, you can hear it in the shaky, somewhat unsteady hand, the on- and off timing, the tuning: hauntingly beautiful.
Mathijs
Rarely enough,I agree,Mathijs.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
paulywaul
()
Date: April 28, 2009 11:23
Quote
Wanton Witch of the Côte
Absolute bliss, thanks for posting
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Manofwealthandtaste
()
Date: April 28, 2009 11:36
Can't help but wonder what sort of music Brian would have gone on to write/play/create......
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: April 28, 2009 12:09
Without a shadow of a doubt his finest moment was taking Little Red Rooster - a blues song - to the top of the British charts. This was unheard of and there aren't too many examples of a pure blues making it to the hallowed No 1 spot.
Here's the best clip of it for your delectation and delight.
Here's the best clip of it for your delectation and delight.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Baboon Bro
()
Date: April 28, 2009 13:09
Often overseen by earliest Stones is the Muddy-cover
I Want To Be Loved.. Thats one of their finest moments as a group imo.
I Want To Be Loved.. Thats one of their finest moments as a group imo.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: April 28, 2009 18:30
Quote
Mathijs
There's pictures of the recording session, with Keith overdubbing the acoustic.
Mathijs
Are you meaning the Gered Mankowitz pics where Keith has shades on and is playing a hummingbird? I think you've said those are from satisfaction session before, but they're from later.
Any direct quotes where any of the band say Brian didn't play acoustic?
OT: I have doubts that Keith played the slide 12string on MLH, the 1966 live version featuring Brian playing 12 string sounds pretty bang on like the studio version. I guess it's a possible 'Keith misremembering' moment.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-28 18:31 by His Majesty.
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
cc
()
Date: April 28, 2009 19:29
Quote
Silver Dagger
Without a shadow of a doubt his finest moment was ... Little Red Rooster [/video]
so you're pretty sure then, eh?
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: April 28, 2009 22:40
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Mathijs
There's pictures of the recording session, with Keith overdubbing the acoustic.
Mathijs
Are you meaning the Gered Mankowitz pics where Keith has shades on and is playing a hummingbird? I think you've said those are from satisfaction session before, but they're from later.
Any direct quotes where any of the band say Brian didn't play acoustic?
quote]
No, there's a couple of pics of Keith and Jack Nitzsche, Keith in a white blouse with a Gibson Country and Western, shot by Mankowitz, with undersript of Wyman saying that these were shot during overdubs for Satisfaction. There's some remarks in Wyman's Rolling with the Stones as well.
Mathijs
Re: Brian Jones' finest hour
Posted by:
tomk
()
Date: April 28, 2009 23:09
Quote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
Mathijs
There's pictures of the recording session, with Keith overdubbing the acoustic.
Mathijs
Are you meaning the Gered Mankowitz pics where Keith has shades on and is playing a hummingbird? I think you've said those are from satisfaction session before, but they're from later.
Any direct quotes where any of the band say Brian didn't play acoustic?
quote]
No, there's a couple of pics of Keith and Jack Nitzsche, Keith in a white blouse with a Gibson Country and Western, shot by Mankowitz, with undersript of Wyman saying that these were shot during overdubs for Satisfaction. There's some remarks in Wyman's Rolling with the Stones as well.
Mathijs
I don't recall what photos you mean, but I don't find any evidence in Wyman's book of him not playing. Wyman does mention a band vote on it being the next single after listening to the master and him saying Brian was present.
However, this listening party could have been done soon after.
So I guess the verdict is we really don't know.
We don't have any positive proof that he wasn't there, unless someone has a quote
taht I haven't read.
It does sound to my ears like a part he would play.
Also, too, FWIW, the acoutsic and piano on the mono mix are hardly audible,
but they do beef up the sound, if you know what I mean.
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