Tell Me :
Talk
I found the web site you're talking about, scaffer .Thanks a lot.
But The WATTS name is said to have originated in the time of Edward II, with the territorial name deWATH, whose descendents corrupted the name to its present form. It was first spelled WATTES in the reighn of Henry VII. The family of WATTS, of Hawkesdale Hall, Cumberland County, England, deduce themselves from Sir John de FLEMING, Lord of WATH, who first assumed the name.
Naomi Watts for instance is not jewish ;or at least she doen't tell .
But you're right ,it doesn't matter in fact.And Charlie's family name is not a "proof" ; may be his mother married a non jewish man ;so his name is not jewish but if his mother is,then he is.For religious people at least.
My own father's name is the one of the three famous tribe .
I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .
To get both The River and The Promised Land you have to go to a Springsteen concert and hold up a sign requesting them.
I didn't know that Jagger was so anti-Catholic. But if he really said that I would have to say that his beliefs are bullshit. To enter a guests home and then publicly call their beliefs on which all of Christianity is based, "bullshit" is very insulting and blasphemous to Catholics.
If he put down Jews and their religion he would be called anti-semetic and made a pariah in the world. I wasn't aware that religion was there to "turn people on."
However, I would like to see the article first. But since you posted it I assume it is true.
ROCKMAN
2012 as predicted.
Before the beginning, there is the Rolling Stones.
The mother that rears the ten thousand creatures, each after its kind, like God and the other bands.
Christian faith is not a bad thing anyway, IMO. I see nothing to be an apologist for in that respect.
The phrasing seemed to suggest that being a christian in general could be something to be apologetic for. This would be in line with some criticism in this thread, but maybe you did not have that intention
Why is that disappointing? Because it's not in line with what you "believe" about something/someone that is fictional to begin with?
See, that's the problem with "Christians" - it's mostly about a "cultural" convenience of their own "doing". Those are the kind of people that point to the sky after hitting a home run or making a touchdown to help win a game or talk about God and Jesus after winning a game or after some kind of disaster and can't find a reality in what happened or can't explain anything other than saying "Well God made it that way" and many many etceteras. Losers in games and people who have died and whatever don't point to the sky or thank "god" after a loss and so on or if they do it's the crutch they use because they don't know how to express how they actually feel ie family member getting murdered by a drive-by shooting. It's the same thing, different day - control. Sheeple everywhere.
And to answer the question, I don't care if they are or not. If they are, that's their life. If they are obviously they keep it to themselves, like the entire world should.
That's what happens when people ask such kind of questions. Like some famous actor said in a movie a few years ago, you can't handle the truth. What's so "sensible" about posting about religion to begin with? Nothing. YOU be a good boy and keep it private if you don't like what you read that other people think, especially when it's not in line with what you beLIEve.
I have doubts about too much personal stuff in general, but religion does not seem to be a topic that would be specifically off-limits to me in that respect.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
SwayStones
()
Date: April 10, 2009 18:02
Quote
scaffer
According to at least one web site that claims to be authoritative re celebrities' religions (I forget the URL), Charlie is Jewish.
Granted, it doesn't matter of course - but perhaps the fact that me own grandpa is Jewish made me a little curious when I read this about Charlie.
The fact that we virtually never hear anything about this topic suggests that Charlie may feel it's his own business and no one else's, which I definitely respect.
I found the web site you're talking about, scaffer .Thanks a lot.
But The WATTS name is said to have originated in the time of Edward II, with the territorial name deWATH, whose descendents corrupted the name to its present form. It was first spelled WATTES in the reighn of Henry VII. The family of WATTS, of Hawkesdale Hall, Cumberland County, England, deduce themselves from Sir John de FLEMING, Lord of WATH, who first assumed the name.
Naomi Watts for instance is not jewish ;or at least she doen't tell .
But you're right ,it doesn't matter in fact.And Charlie's family name is not a "proof" ; may be his mother married a non jewish man ;so his name is not jewish but if his mother is,then he is.For religious people at least.
My own father's name is the one of the three famous tribe .
I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
ohnonotyouagain
()
Date: April 10, 2009 18:05
Quote
Munichhilton
Songs such as these give me hope that I will still hear The Stones music when I cross the river into the promised land....(if I make it)
To get both The River and The Promised Land you have to go to a Springsteen concert and hold up a sign requesting them.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
ghostryder13
()
Date: April 10, 2009 18:11
i belive religion is a private matter between the person and their god/gods
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
harlito1969
()
Date: April 10, 2009 18:55
Charlie Watts made a statement about being Jewish in a drummer magezine around 10 years ago.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
The Sicilian
()
Date: February 13, 2011 18:59
Quote
SwayStonesQuote
StonesBlake
Charlie is Jewish, so I don't see Easter being all that big for him.
First time I hear that Charlie is jewish ;Is it written in a book or somewhere ?
So he can do Pessah .
.High Times: Are you Catholic?
Jagger: No. We’re very staunchly anti-Catholic. We’re very much so. But I couldn’t believe -- I used to go into people’s houses in South America and Brazil, they’d have these statues of this wooden saint. They collect them, you know. The women particularly. And a whole table. You go into a room dominated by this huge table with big -- they’re quite big, a foot tall -- and they name them and tell about them. It’s absolute bullshit, I mean, all these saints. It is. Everyone knows it
High Times: I think so too.
Jagger: Most of these saints -- that particular religion turns me right off.
I didn't know that Jagger was so anti-Catholic. But if he really said that I would have to say that his beliefs are bullshit. To enter a guests home and then publicly call their beliefs on which all of Christianity is based, "bullshit" is very insulting and blasphemous to Catholics.
If he put down Jews and their religion he would be called anti-semetic and made a pariah in the world. I wasn't aware that religion was there to "turn people on."
However, I would like to see the article first. But since you posted it I assume it is true.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
donteverstop
()
Date: February 13, 2011 19:13
Sympathy For Satan...
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: February 13, 2011 19:17
A frequent poster on Mick's old board, who claimed intimate knowledge of Mick and Jerry, said that Mick was a Buddhist.
Patti does come from a large, religious family, but met Keith when she was going through a wild phase. She returned to her church after they had been married a long time and this caused considerable friction between her and Keith; 'Thief in the Night' was about this. But it seems likely that it is her ethical convictions that make their family life so solid.
Charlie is definitely Jewish; I have read where he stated that.
Patti does come from a large, religious family, but met Keith when she was going through a wild phase. She returned to her church after they had been married a long time and this caused considerable friction between her and Keith; 'Thief in the Night' was about this. But it seems likely that it is her ethical convictions that make their family life so solid.
Charlie is definitely Jewish; I have read where he stated that.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: February 13, 2011 19:21
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Your old time religion is just superstition" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< wasn't this line about Bianca who if I've got it right is a staunch Catholic.....and I thought Keith was into Voodoo - which although it has had a bad rap is a religion - what with all that bone waving before going on stage at the 2006 Rio show...................Quote
teleblaster
"Your old time religion is just superstition"
A happy Easter weekend to one and all, whatever your beliefs.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: February 13, 2011 20:39
Mick made his statements to HIGH TIMES when he was with Jerry and going through divorce proceedings with Bianca. The public slam against Catholicism was a reflection of that situation the same as the opening lines of "Send It To Me."
Like his own father, Mick has tried various beliefs (and non-belief in Mick's case) at different times in his life. For the past decade or so he has been practicing Buddhism with much encouragement from Jade and his brother.
"The old time religion" is not a reference to Catholicism, but Satanism or Wicca or voodoo that sometimes has blended in with Catholicism in certain regions. That is why the next line in "Crazy Mama" is "You're going to pay high prices for your sacrifices." If the song has a particular target it was more like Anita than Bianca.
Like his own father, Mick has tried various beliefs (and non-belief in Mick's case) at different times in his life. For the past decade or so he has been practicing Buddhism with much encouragement from Jade and his brother.
"The old time religion" is not a reference to Catholicism, but Satanism or Wicca or voodoo that sometimes has blended in with Catholicism in certain regions. That is why the next line in "Crazy Mama" is "You're going to pay high prices for your sacrifices." If the song has a particular target it was more like Anita than Bianca.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
nonfilter
()
Date: February 13, 2011 20:54
Quote
Rip This
...."Just want To see His Face"....could just as well be about wanting/needing to see a drug dealer...."
Except that that line is proceeded by "don't wanna talk about Jesus". Not a common name for drug dealers. I have read at least one interview with Mick where he stated his belief in God, but said he had no specific religious associations. Keith has spoken in great detail about his spiritual beliefs, in "Life" and elsewhere. Charlie and Ronnie, I don't know. I remember hearing somewhere, I think on the Sticky Fingers Journal (remember that one?) that the four remaining Stones always sing some old gospel hymn together at every band related funeral. But Charlie says he doesn't sing.
[www.non-filters.com]
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: February 13, 2011 21:27
Songs are often influenced by the events at the time of their creation. Mick took Catholic instruction (he did not convert to Catholicism) in order to grant Bianca's wish to have a church wedding. "I Just Want To See His Face" a song about frustration with taking a leap of faith and believing in intangibles is reflective of that period in Mick's life. "You don't want to walk and talk about Jesus / You just want to see His face." There is deliberate irony in writing a gospel song about wanting proof before believing in God. In that respect it is similar to writing a Gospel song about sinners who converted and saying while I don't want to burn in Hell, you won't see me becoming a saint. That is the message of "Saint of Me." While you're at it, you should probably toss in "Shine a Light" and "Wandering Spirit" for further examples. Maybe even "Dancing in the Starlight" and "Blue." "Flip the Switch" has a similar dichotomy with its death row inmate ready to convert as much as he's longing for another victim. The dual compulsions to do good as well as evil are more common lyrical themes than any genuine conversion or spiritual conviction in Jagger's lyrics and even Keith's.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: February 13, 2011 21:55
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but Satanism or Wicca or voodoo that sometimes has blended in with Catholicism in certain regions <<<<<<<<<<<<<..I did read once that there is also lot of cross wiring between Catholicism and the old Aztec and Inca religion/cultures in South America (Not disregarding the ones you mentioned) where of course Bianca does come from. Apparently the vatican is proactive in trying to keep the various factions apart because the Inca/Aztec aspects are rooted in blood sacrifice. The article also pointed out that there was an irony in that though because at the root of the christian faith is their own God performing a blood sacrifice...ie..(He) sacrificed his own son to a bloody death.(Sic).....You may be right about Anita though, I don't know enough about her to comment...........Equally though, the high prices/sacrifices thing may just about seeing that her religion demanded a lot and by his reckoning was not likely to 'pay out' in the end. The high price being an ultimate disappointment after a lifetime of self denial and sacrifice......as I say though it's only an interpretation and of course you may be the one that's rightQuote
Rocky Dijon
Mick made his statements to HIGH TIMES when he was with Jerry and going through divorce proceedings with Bianca. The public slam against Catholicism was a reflection of that situation the same as the opening lines of "Send It To Me."
Like his own father, Mick has tried various beliefs (and non-belief in Mick's case) at different times in his life. For the past decade or so he has been practicing Buddhism with much encouragement from Jade and his brother.
"The old time religion" is not a reference to Catholicism, but Satanism or Wicca or voodoo that sometimes has blended in with Catholicism in certain regions. That is why the next line in "Crazy Mama" is "You're going to pay high prices for your sacrifices." If the song has a particular target it was more like Anita than Bianca.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Wry Cooter
()
Date: February 13, 2011 23:11
For the record. you can believe in God and not be religious. And that your concept of "God" may differ.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: February 13, 2011 23:35
Billy Preston took Mick to gospel churches in LA, and this inspired 'Shine a Light' and most likely other Stones gospel-esque material of that era.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: February 14, 2011 00:00
ROCKMAN
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: February 14, 2011 00:01
Keith wrote in 'Life' that he reads the Bible.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
sweetcharmedlife
()
Date: February 14, 2011 01:21
The Church of the sacred bleeding heart of Jesus.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
CBII
()
Date: February 14, 2011 01:26
Very odd question.
CBII
CBII
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
bustedtrousers
()
Date: February 14, 2011 02:04
I think it's pretty obvious that none of us really have a clue as to where they stand religion-wise. And as long as they aren't pushing anything, or being hypocritical about it, I don't think it really matters. It is an interesting topic though.
Dylan, a Jew by birthright, sang lyrics full of Christian references a good fifteen years before he saw the light, and faddishly converted to Christianity. Just because you have religion in your lyrics, doesn't mean you are religious. Personally, I don't think any of them take any religion very seriously. At least not as seriously as some people here would like.
Mick may practice or follow Buddhism to some degree, but I don't think it's the driving force in his life. As for everyone speaking about how "spiritual" a person Keith is, especially from his connections with the Rastas, I can't help but wonder how interested he'd be in them, if their spiritualism didn't involve smoking copious amounts of weed, dude.
Dylan, a Jew by birthright, sang lyrics full of Christian references a good fifteen years before he saw the light, and faddishly converted to Christianity. Just because you have religion in your lyrics, doesn't mean you are religious. Personally, I don't think any of them take any religion very seriously. At least not as seriously as some people here would like.
Mick may practice or follow Buddhism to some degree, but I don't think it's the driving force in his life. As for everyone speaking about how "spiritual" a person Keith is, especially from his connections with the Rastas, I can't help but wonder how interested he'd be in them, if their spiritualism didn't involve smoking copious amounts of weed, dude.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: February 14, 2011 03:44
In the beginning, there was The Beatles.
And in the end, there is the Rolling Stones.
Amen.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
And in the end, there is the Rolling Stones.
Amen.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
The Sicilian
()
Date: February 14, 2011 03:46
Quote
Hairball
In the beginning, there was The Beatles.
And in the end, there is the Rolling Stones.
Amen.
2012 as predicted.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
lsbz
()
Date: February 14, 2011 04:03
Quote
Hairball
In the beginning, there was The Beatles.
And in the end, there is the Rolling Stones.
Before the beginning, there is the Rolling Stones.
The mother that rears the ten thousand creatures, each after its kind, like God and the other bands.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: February 14, 2011 04:40
Not trying to turn into a Bianca apologist, but I think any conviction that she was devout in her faith isn't wholly accurate. She may have practiced to an extent, but her lifestyle before and during her marriage to Mick ran contrary to many teachings of Catholicism.
While I believe she is a very different person today (having left the Studio 54 life behind 30 years ago or so) and while I admire her socio-political convictions even when I disagree with her at times (she has very much become her father's daughter), those same convictions run contrary to the Vatican's views on sexuality and women's rights.
Just thought it was worth clearing up given what I posted earlier. I do believe I read somewhere that Bianca's mom was very religious, but I don't know if that is actually so. Somewhere along the line, I believe I had the impression that his former mother-in-law was the target of the mockery in the HIGH TIMES piece. That may not be accurate, though since it is just a murkily remembered impression dissipated by time and too much anasthesia.
While I believe she is a very different person today (having left the Studio 54 life behind 30 years ago or so) and while I admire her socio-political convictions even when I disagree with her at times (she has very much become her father's daughter), those same convictions run contrary to the Vatican's views on sexuality and women's rights.
Just thought it was worth clearing up given what I posted earlier. I do believe I read somewhere that Bianca's mom was very religious, but I don't know if that is actually so. Somewhere along the line, I believe I had the impression that his former mother-in-law was the target of the mockery in the HIGH TIMES piece. That may not be accurate, though since it is just a murkily remembered impression dissipated by time and too much anasthesia.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
lsbz
()
Date: February 14, 2011 04:51
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Not trying to turn into a Bianca apologist, but I think any conviction that she was devout in her faith isn't wholly accurate.
Christian faith is not a bad thing anyway, IMO. I see nothing to be an apologist for in that respect.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: February 14, 2011 06:02
Never said it was, I said I wasn't trying to be a Bianca apologist, not a Christian apologist. My point in posting what I did was because I felt the discussion was turning into "Bianca was a devout Catholic" which wasn't accurate ever. I never expressed my own views on Catholicism or Christianity because they are irrelevant to the discussion.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
lsbz
()
Date: February 14, 2011 06:30
Quote
Rocky Dijon
I never expressed my own views on Catholicism or Christianity because they are irrelevant to the discussion.
The phrasing seemed to suggest that being a christian in general could be something to be apologetic for. This would be in line with some criticism in this thread, but maybe you did not have that intention
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 14, 2011 06:46
Quote
skl127
Mick is on record as saying that he didn't believe in God, or any one spiritual being, very disappointing really . . . don't get me wrong, I love the Stones, but I would have thought a man with Mick's intelligence wouldn't dismiss God so flippantly.
What's wrong in believing in God, you will never see a sad Christian.
Cheers
Why is that disappointing? Because it's not in line with what you "believe" about something/someone that is fictional to begin with?
See, that's the problem with "Christians" - it's mostly about a "cultural" convenience of their own "doing". Those are the kind of people that point to the sky after hitting a home run or making a touchdown to help win a game or talk about God and Jesus after winning a game or after some kind of disaster and can't find a reality in what happened or can't explain anything other than saying "Well God made it that way" and many many etceteras. Losers in games and people who have died and whatever don't point to the sky or thank "god" after a loss and so on or if they do it's the crutch they use because they don't know how to express how they actually feel ie family member getting murdered by a drive-by shooting. It's the same thing, different day - control. Sheeple everywhere.
And to answer the question, I don't care if they are or not. If they are, that's their life. If they are obviously they keep it to themselves, like the entire world should.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 14, 2011 06:49
Quote
akgameboyQuote
paulywaul
The appear to be sensible individuals, so with luck one might assume they're not religious in the slightest.
Some smartas* always has to post some negative comment about religion on these boards. Why don't you learn to be "sensible" yourself and withhold your religious views like a good boy.
That's what happens when people ask such kind of questions. Like some famous actor said in a movie a few years ago, you can't handle the truth. What's so "sensible" about posting about religion to begin with? Nothing. YOU be a good boy and keep it private if you don't like what you read that other people think, especially when it's not in line with what you beLIEve.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
lsbz
()
Date: February 14, 2011 07:00
Quote
skipstone
What's so "sensible" about posting about religion to begin with?
I have doubts about too much personal stuff in general, but religion does not seem to be a topic that would be specifically off-limits to me in that respect.
Re: As Easter Approaches--- How Religious Do U Think The Stones Are?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: February 14, 2011 07:06
I see no reason to turn this into another banned thread. The discussion was a valid one as much as it related to lyrical content or its real life inspiration.
To respond directly to Isbz, I said nothing either way about religion personally. I commented on what I believe was going on with Mick during that particular interview in HIGH TIMES and what I believe was going on in his private life that influenced lyrics on EXILE, BLACK AND BLUE, and EMOTIONAL RESCUE in particular. When I thought the conversation was turning into "Bianca was the root of the problems as a Catholic," I thought that deserved to be addressed in a serious fashion since it was erroneous as she was not then or is it not now a devout Catholic in terms of following everything her faith dictates. I wasn't judging her a good or bad person because of it, just trying to state facts and not let an unfair view develop.
I don't believe in using a Stones message board to tell people their personal convictions are wrong or right. If you have a desire to know what I actually feel personally about religion or politics or anything else, you're welcome to say so and I will happily converse with you offline. It just has no relevance to the Stones whereas discussing religious imagery, their religious beliefs or their spouses' beliefs may be valid. That's all I was trying to say.
To respond directly to Isbz, I said nothing either way about religion personally. I commented on what I believe was going on with Mick during that particular interview in HIGH TIMES and what I believe was going on in his private life that influenced lyrics on EXILE, BLACK AND BLUE, and EMOTIONAL RESCUE in particular. When I thought the conversation was turning into "Bianca was the root of the problems as a Catholic," I thought that deserved to be addressed in a serious fashion since it was erroneous as she was not then or is it not now a devout Catholic in terms of following everything her faith dictates. I wasn't judging her a good or bad person because of it, just trying to state facts and not let an unfair view develop.
I don't believe in using a Stones message board to tell people their personal convictions are wrong or right. If you have a desire to know what I actually feel personally about religion or politics or anything else, you're welcome to say so and I will happily converse with you offline. It just has no relevance to the Stones whereas discussing religious imagery, their religious beliefs or their spouses' beliefs may be valid. That's all I was trying to say.
This Thread has been closed