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OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:03

After watching the videos for the now late John Cephas, a thought came upon me, as much as white performers admire and try to imitate American Blues artists, there is just no comparision to the black Blues musicians from the 50's and 60's, and even beyond. They have a lock on that sound.

When I think of the blues I picture older black musician plucking away and mumbling some lyrics that sound just brilliant. That is a sound that cannot be duplicated.

Not the Stones, Clapton, Winter, and especially Stevie Ray Vaughn. Not to say that these artists and others don't sound good because they do, but that sound is just immortal.

Anyone agree?

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: stone-relics ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:06

Blues spirit transforms race, religion etc. Everybody gets them, just some more than others. Just listen to late 60's Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, and tell me a white man cant play the blues.....

JR

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:13

no

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:18

T&A, know's his music .

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: The Stones ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:18

White men can't jump either.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: marvpeck ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:24

Ever hear Paul Butterfield?

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:33






"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: ablett ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:48

Thats a difficult one but on the whole I'd say no. White artist are good at interpreting the blues, playing the blues. But they haven't the history or chemistry thats makes a truly great blues artist. Who really had to live or know people who have lived the life to feel the blues

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:52

Just because a guy straps on a fender wears a hat does not mean that he is at the root of the music. I'm talking about a sound, a feeling, a raw energy.

Its like that other sound "Motown". Often imitated never duplicated.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:57

Quote
The Greek
T&A, know's his music .
true, but he's often sarcastic...as in this case. ridiculous thread, imo...white men can't swing either...tell that to benny goodman, buddy rich, etc...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-09 19:01 by T&A.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: March 9, 2009 18:59

Or play basketball? What kinda crap is this?



The blues is a feeling - granted the guys who walked out of the Delta lived more blues than most (if not all) of us have ever seen. Robert, Muddy, Howling, etc. = the real deal. But that's not to say a white guy (or even a modern black player like Cray or Keb) can't have the feeling too.

Winter, SRV, Tinsley Ellis, hell even Elvin Bishop are real bluesmen.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: Bingo ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:03

Can people of colour play Bluegrass?


Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: straycat58 ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:03

I'm still waiting to understand if a black can be a US President...

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: highanddry ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:03

Quote
stone-relics
Blues spirit transforms race, religion etc. Everybody gets them, just some more than others. Just listen to late 60's Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, and tell me a white man cant play the blues.....

JR

Great guitar player, but no one will ever mistake him for Robert Johnson or Charley Patton.

And even if we give the likes of Peter Green the benefit of the doubt about ability to play the blues, there isn't a white man alive who can sing the blues. Once they open their mouths, it's over, they simply don't have the same pitch, timbre and other vocal qualities that black singers have.

As for the likes of Paul Butterfield? Please, don't make me laugh. Pretender...

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:04

Quote
highanddry
Quote
stone-relics
Blues spirit transforms race, religion etc. Everybody gets them, just some more than others. Just listen to late 60's Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, and tell me a white man cant play the blues.....

JR

Great guitar player, but no one will ever mistake him for Robert Johnson or Charley Patton.

And even if we give the likes of Peter Green the benefit of the doubt about ability to play the blues, there isn't a white man alive who can sing the blues. Once they open their mouths, it's over, they simply don't have the same pitch, timbre and other vocal qualities that black singers have.

this is bordering very dangerously on racist thinking. burdon, cocker, winwood for openers....oh...and john hammond? many listeners who never saw the man just assumed he wasn't white...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-09 19:05 by T&A.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:05

Can anyone give a definition of blues,otherwise this topic makes not much sense?

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:09

Quote
Amsterdamned
Can anyone give a definition of blues,otherwise this topic makes not much sense?

Its a sound that is difficult if not impossible to describe in words.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:16

Keith Richards, Bill Wyman & Mick Jagger: Chess Studios

Keith: Before we went to America it was very difficult to record in England. Nobody could record or had recorded the sound we were trying to get. People weren't used to that kind of roughness. Everyone in England at the time was incapable: engineers, equipment, producers and, to a certain extent, musicians. No one could get a really good funky American sound which is what WE were after. The best move we could possibly do was get to America as quickly as possible and record there.

Bill: The methods of recording in England and America were completely different. The only people you could use over here were Bill Fowley at Regent Sound and Glyn Johns, if you could get hold of him. The big trouble with recording in England was that for a rock group the studio acoustics were so bad because you couldn't play loud. When we recorded at the Chess Studios in Chicago, we had Ron (Malo), the guy who engineered all the Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley and Howlin' Wolf records. He knew exactly what we wanted and he got it almost instantly.

The point here is that it is a SOUND that everyone recognizes and is after.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:23

chess studios produced one brand/sound...there were/are many others...there is no one specific blues "sound."

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: harlito1969 ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:29

country music is white boy blues

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:33

Quote
T&A
...there is no one specific blues "sound."

thats debatable...I guess it depends on which side of the Mississippi river you grew up and live on.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:36

Quote
The Sicilian
Quote
T&A
...there is no one specific blues "sound."

thats debatable...I guess it depends on which side of the Mississippi river you grew up and live on.

it's debatable? huh? you're saying the only legit blues sound was produced at chess? if not, what are you trying to say?

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:41

Quote
T&A
Quote
The Greek
T&A, know's his music .
true, but he's often sarcastic...as in this case. ridiculous thread, imo...white men can't swing either...tell that to benny goodman, buddy rich, etc...
T&A,who am i to judge you ? we are here for a lively discusion of all things musical!

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: sweet neo con ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:43

wow....ridiculous thread.

why do so many people still feel the need to classify everybody
by their race (for everything).

just let musical ability, athletic ability, leadership ability etc....
speak for itself.

feeding into these stereotypes....and classifying people by their race
only creates more problems.

i don't know any person that had the ability to choose their own race.

Let's just discuss the HUMAN RACE.


IORR............but I like it!

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: highanddry ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:46

Quote
T&A
Quote
highanddry
Quote
stone-relics
Blues spirit transforms race, religion etc. Everybody gets them, just some more than others. Just listen to late 60's Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, and tell me a white man cant play the blues.....

JR

Great guitar player, but no one will ever mistake him for Robert Johnson or Charley Patton.

And even if we give the likes of Peter Green the benefit of the doubt about ability to play the blues, there isn't a white man alive who can sing the blues. Once they open their mouths, it's over, they simply don't have the same pitch, timbre and other vocal qualities that black singers have.

this is bordering very dangerously on racist thinking. burdon, cocker, winwood for openers....oh...and john hammond? many listeners who never saw the man just assumed he wasn't white...

No, it's not racist. It's just reality. And the only people who thought Burdon, cocker, Winwood or Hammond were black were the people who weren't especially well-versed in authentic African-American blues singers, or who have wooden ears.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:50

Quote
highanddry
Quote
T&A
Quote
highanddry
Quote
stone-relics
Blues spirit transforms race, religion etc. Everybody gets them, just some more than others. Just listen to late 60's Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, and tell me a white man cant play the blues.....

JR

Great guitar player, but no one will ever mistake him for Robert Johnson or Charley Patton.

And even if we give the likes of Peter Green the benefit of the doubt about ability to play the blues, there isn't a white man alive who can sing the blues. Once they open their mouths, it's over, they simply don't have the same pitch, timbre and other vocal qualities that black singers have.

this is bordering very dangerously on racist thinking. burdon, cocker, winwood for openers....oh...and john hammond? many listeners who never saw the man just assumed he wasn't white...

No, it's not racist. It's just reality. And the only people who thought Burdon, cocker, Winwood or Hammond were black were the people who weren't especially well-versed in authentic African-American blues singers, or who have wooden ears.

that's total b.s. you're telling me that you can tell the color of someone's skin by their voice, now? wow...

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:51

Quote
The Sicilian
Quote
T&A
...there is no one specific blues "sound."

thats debatable...I guess it depends on which side of the Mississippi river you grew up and live on.

Forget about the Missisipi,that's mostly the 12 bar 3 chord guys(with all respect)
I think Hendrix was the best-if not genius- of them all,and MT ofcourse.Skinn colour has nothing to do with it since let's say Clapton,who is the most commercial representative of the "coca cola" blues players.

I prefer the Jazz influenced bluesplayers like Wes Montgomery Robben Ford,Barry Finnerty,and even Jeff Beck most,Black & White winking smiley

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: highanddry ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:53

Quote
T&A


that's total b.s. you're telling me that you can tell the color of someone's skin by their voice, now? wow...

If you can't, you're not paying attention.

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:54

Quote
highanddry
Quote
T&A


that's total b.s. you're telling me that you can tell the color of someone's skin by their voice, now? wow...

If you can't, you're not paying attention.

if you think you can, you're either delusional or super-natural....

Re: OT - Can a white man really play the blues?
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: March 9, 2009 19:55

Quote
ablett
Thats a difficult one but on the whole I'd say no. White artist are good at interpreting the blues, playing the blues. But they haven't the history or chemistry thats makes a truly great blues artist. Who really had to live or know people who have lived the life to feel the blues

Are you saying that at some point in the near future no-one will have the "baggage" to sing the blues?
In other wrods its a dying art form?

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