I've never heard that Jagger created the SMU-riff before. Mick doesn't play guitar at all on BS. He wrote the chord structure, as we can see in the MSG 69-video clip. Keith made the riff.

Of course Keith came up with the riff. Jagger's song using open G with some sus 4's is the basic chord progression, this is not the same as the very defined guitar parts heard on the finished recording.

But the highlight of the song is the riff and how in hooks with verses and choruses. So this song and the 100% succesful final complete version is not so Jagger

The perfect rock'n'roll track, both in terms of performing AND production, imo.

Hearing people finding BS "muddy" just beats me. Just Wanna See His Face is muddy, BS is crystal clear.

"I´ve written riffs that people assume are Keith´s. That was the first one I did. I´ve done many since." Mick Jagger 1994
[www.timeisonourside.com]

The very start opening intro pre riff might be a Keith intro add-on, on the recorded version.

Some people, especially non guitar players might not be able to hear or understand what I'm trying to explain, which is fair enough.

Guitar players can easily check what I'm saying by watching Mick's fingers and also by playing along with Mick in the Ike and Tina Turner clip.

The main Brown Sugar riff is in the Mick, Ike and Tina Turner video (open G tuning Eb,C,Ab,Bb,C hope I got the key right) but Mick varies it a bit with 2 Eb,C changes instead of one (Eb,C,Eb,C,Ab,Bb,C) but the next time through the riff, it's the usual Eb,C,Ab,Bb,C.

Mick is playing the riff in a shorter beat way, a more hurried way, that's all.

It's still the Brown Sugar main riff that leads into the verse.

The Stones arrange things in a final way as the song get's recorded or is ready to record.

It's only a casual showing of the song to Ike and Tina but the opening riff, verse (get's changed a bit) and chorus are all there.

Mick also changed the verse to Gold Coast etc etc later on (maybe in the studio) as often happens with Stones songs as they get polished for the final recording.

Mick wrote the riff and the whole song, even Keith says so in his book.







Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-09 06:47 by howled.

Ike seems tense around this skinny lil white guy not so subtly coming on to his female band members.

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howled
"I´ve written riffs that people assume are Keith´s. That was the first one I did. I´ve done many since." Mick Jagger 1994
[www.timeisonourside.com]

The very start opening intro pre riff might be a Keith intro add-on, on the recorded version.

Some people, especially non guitar players might not be able to hear or understand what I'm trying to explain, which is fair enough.

Guitar players can easily check what I'm saying by watching Mick's fingers and also by playing along with Mick in the Ike and Tina Turner clip.

The main Brown Sugar riff is in the Mick, Ike and Tina Turner video (open G tuning F,D,Bb,C,D hope I got the key right) but Mick varies it a bit with 2 F,D changes instead of one (F,D,F,D,Bb,C,D) but the next time through the riff, it's the usual F,D,Bb,C,D.

Mick is playing the riff in a shorter beat way, a more hurried way, that's all.

It's still the Brown Sugar main riff that leads into the verse.

The Stones arrange things in a final way as the song get's recorded or is ready to record.

It's only a casual showing of the song to Ike and Tina but the opening riff, verse (get's changed a bit) and chorus are all there.

Mick also changed the verse to Gold Coast etc etc later on (maybe in the studio) as often happens with Stones songs as they get polished for the final recording.

Mick wrote the riff and the whole song, even Keith says so in his book.

Guitar players can tell that Mick is strumming an embryo of what later is to become the main riff figure. The "pre-riff" is a very important part of BS, and I don't regard it as a pre-riff, but rather THE riff.

No doubt Mick wrote a gem here, but Keith shaped this material into the instantly recognisable riff, as well as tied the chord progression together with the same structure as the riff in the beginning. It was important for the sound of this brilliant song, imo.

The intro pre riff I'm talking about is from 0 to 15 seconds, and I think it might be Keith's.

The main riff starting at 15 seconds is Mick's.

Mick's main riff is in the Ike and Tina Turner video.

Obviously Keith is playing Mick's riff in Keith's style on the recording and using the typical Keith open G suspension additions in a typical Keith way.

The intro pre riff sounds like a typical Keith style intro ala the JJF intro that they never seem to play live.

Keith likes to have intros especially on recordings, JJF, Gimme Shelter.








Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-08 15:38 by howled.

He's just playing chords there really, the finished thing is far more defined and worked out. Of course, it's just riffing within the structure of those chords.

Who did what doesn't matter though, in the end it sounds cool as @#$%&!

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howled

I wonder what happened to THAT telecaster thinline?

Someone must have it.

It sounds sweet with that amp.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-08 15:39 by GravityBoy.

Maybe it's Ike's?

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His Majesty
Maybe it's Ike's?

I think it is.

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His Majesty
He's just playing chords there really, the finished thing is far more defined and worked out. Of course, it's just riffing within the structure of those chords.

Who did what doesn't matter though, in the end it sounds cool as @#$%&!

The main riff is instantly identified because it's different from the rest of the song.

The main riff is Eb, C, Ab, Bb, C and it's in the Ike and Tina Turner video.

The song is (verse) C, F, C, Bb, C, (chorus) G, C, G, C very different from the main riff.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-09 06:50 by howled.

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howled

Quote
His Majesty
He's just playing chords there really, the finished thing is far more defined and worked out. Of course, it's just riffing within the structure of those chords.

Who did what doesn't matter though, in the end it sounds cool as @#$%&!

The main riff is instantly identified because it's different from the rest of the song.

The main riff is F, D, Bb, C, D and it's in the Ike and Tina Turner video.

The song is (verse) D, G, D, C, D, (chorus) A, D, A, D very different from the main riff.

That's the basic chords from which part of various riffs were based.

The basic chords are the ones that the suspensions are hung on.

The main riff is Eb, C, Ab, Bb, C.

Keith adds Keith type suspensions to the Eb, C, Ab, Bb, C, chords.

Adding suspensions is easy to do and Keith loves to do it.

Mick wrote the Eb, C, Ab, Bb, C riff in the first place and just because Keith adds some suspensions to it in the final arrangement does not mean that it's Keith's riff.

The suspensions are not the main riff.

The main riff is enhanced a bit with some suspensions.

The main riff is enhanced by Keith but not written by Keith.

Also, the main riff might have had suspensions added to it by Mick at some stage, it's not hard to do.

In the Ike and Tina Turner video, Mick is not playing suspensions on the main riff Eb, C, Ab, Bb, C chords but Jeez it's only a rough demo to Ike and Tina but the main Eb, C, Ab, Bb, C riff is there in the Ike and Tina video.

This dude shows some of the added Keith like suspensions added to the the main Eb, C, Ab, Bb, C riff from 21 seconds to 35 seconds and the suspensions are the 2nd and 3rd fingers that alternatively go up and down on the frets and the Eb, C, Ab, Bb, C riff chords are just the index finger barre moved to different fret positions along the neck.







Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-09 06:53 by howled.

A D in Brown Sugar? Where??

Yeah, my mistake about the D.

Unfortunately, I was a whole step out.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-09 06:55 by howled.

Of all the archetypal Stones songs, this is probably the best known, if not the best.

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howled
Brown Sugar is in D, or D is it's home key.

The verse starts in D.

The main riff veers from D to F and then back home to D and then veers off again to Bb and C and then back home to D.

That's one of the reasons why the riff works so well, because of all the veering away from D and then back to D.

Every time the riff goes to D it sounds like it's at home but the riff keeps veering away and then back to home.

5th fret index finger barre, open G tuning.

Try D on the 7th fret, then you'll find it. However, C is on the 5th fret, and is indeed the home key of BS.

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howled
Brown Sugar is in D, or D is it's home key.

The verse starts in D.

The main riff veers from D to F and then back home to D and then veers off again to Bb and C and then back home to D.

That's one of the reasons why the riff works so well, because of all the veering away from D and then back to D.

Every time the riff goes to D it sounds like it's at home but the riff keeps veering away and then back to home.

5th fret index finger barre, open G tuning.

Doesn't the verse start in C?

C

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liddas

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howled
Brown Sugar is in D, or D is it's home key.

The verse starts in D.

The main riff veers from D to F and then back home to D and then veers off again to Bb and C and then back home to D.

That's one of the reasons why the riff works so well, because of all the veering away from D and then back to D.

Every time the riff goes to D it sounds like it's at home but the riff keeps veering away and then back to home.

5th fret index finger barre, open G tuning.

Doesn't the verse start in C?

C

Yes, he's mistaking C for D.

It's in C.

And you can play it in ordinary tuning.









Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-08 17:32 by GravityBoy.

You can play everything in standard tuning, but it won't sound that cool

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DandelionPowderman
You can play everything in standard tuning, but it won't sound that cool

Well... I think it's pretty close. It took me years to figure it out.

Well, for me it was the other way around. I learned the songs in standard tuning first - before I knew what open G was

It will never be the same, even though you can get pretty close. CYHMK, for instance, will sound a bit thin in places..

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KeithNacho
But the highlight of the song is the riff and how in hooks with verses and choruses. So this song and the 100% succesful final complete version is not so Jagger

Im pretty sure it is Jagger 100% including the very first note on the riff.

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DandelionPowderman
but Keith shaped this material into the instantly recognisable riff, as well as tied the chord progression together with the same structure as the riff in the beginning. It was important for the sound of this brilliant song, imo.

How do you know that? I dont think he did and Im pretty sure he sould have made a big deal out of it.

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KeithNacho
A perfect clasic rock song............
I know that Jagger wrote the song with the help of the G tuning. Maybe the verses and chorus, but the riff....the riff is very different from the rest of the song, and i bet it is Richard's 100%
SMU is another example, a 2 chords developed by Jagger but with an improved 100%Richard's riff (just hear the difference between the initial reggae version and the definitive one)

Well, that's my opinion

Its not different at all from the rest of the song. The rhythm in the opening riff is similar to Satisfaction and JJF btw. The trademark Keith riff is not to be found in those three hits, I think the "real" Keith is in Hot Stuff, Ventilation Blues, Little T&A. Satisfaction is the horn riff from Nowhere to run, JJF is Wymans riff, BS is Jagger.

Ok, it's Jagger's, but the tone of the song is C