Really interesting listening in to the creative process and hear how these songs evolved. As a Stones fan, I was really blown away the first time watching the footage of Mick Jagger working/trying out Brown Sugar in its early stages in front of Tina Turner backstage at MSG a few days earlier before recording at Muscle Shoals via that outtake from Gimme Shelter.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-31 15:38 by Sighunt.

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TravelinMan
This sounds live off the floor without overdubs, but I will reserve my final thoughts once I listen on proper monitors.

If it is, it must be Taylor on acoustic.

wow so much energy.

very very cool

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Sighunt
Really interesting listening in to the creative process and hear how these songs evolved. As a Stones fan, I was really blown away the first time watching the footage of Mick Jagger working/trying out Brown Sugar in its early stages in front of Tina Turner backstage at MSG a few days earlier before recording at Muscle Shoals via that outtake from Gimme Shelter.

Yeah, it is, and we could add there the birthday/Clapton version there as well as the song being developed further (the melody having new hooks, etc.) - but then they making the (absolutely right) decision to go back to the Muscle Shoals version. As one can hear from this new discovery, the special and distinctive groove is already there, they are hitting the jackpot there. I am pretty sure that when they cut it it at this point, they knew they had a new single A side material there.

Although historically significiant in tracing the track's evolution, the rough and sketchy version Mick plays to Ike and Tina sounds to me just a quick introduction of its basic elements, the verse and chorus, emphasizing its the lyrical content, him just strumming the rhythm guitar to back up his singing - and the chorus actually makes a big - and probably intended - impression on Tina... I don't think that we can really say from that base how was the tune really doing like at that point (how much Mick had other things already written he does not there, like the riff, etc.)

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-31 16:29 by Doxa.

I think in the last verse Mick says, "you should have heard ME just around midnight"...I think that's the first time he goes to "first person".

In the final original recording he changes it to "them".

A first instance of self-censorship?

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treaclefingers
I think in the last verse Mick says, "you should have heard ME just around midnight"...I think that's the first time he goes to "first person".

In the final original recording he changes it to "them".

A first instance of self-censorship?

Well, if kept that way "cold English blood running hot" would have (even) more self-referential sense... As claimed, we should not under-estimate Marsha Hunt's recent inspiration for this track to born. It would take several years for the singer to admit "I don't have that much jam..." But probably better not to open up this theme any further - I might talked already too much by now, although what we do here stems naturally only from a historical interest.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-31 16:47 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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treaclefingers
I think in the last verse Mick says, "you should have heard ME just around midnight"...I think that's the first time he goes to "first person".

In the final original recording he changes it to "them".

A first instance of self-censorship?

Well, if kept that way "cold English blood running hot" would have (even) more self-referential sense... As claimed, we should not under-estimate Marsha Hunt's recent inspiration for this track to born. It would take several years for the singer to admit "I don't have that much jam..." But probably better not to open up this theme any further - I might talked already too much by now, although what we do here stems naturally only from a historical interest.

- Doxa

agreed

This is great! Can someone rip the audio and put it here.

To me it sounds much more primitive than the version I that was released on the "Black Box" 3-cd bootleg around 1995.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-08-01 14:51 by dcba.

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
This sounds live off the floor without overdubs, but I will reserve my final thoughts once I listen on proper monitors.

If it is, it must be Taylor on acoustic.

That’s what I think. It’s more of a time keeping part rather than anything else. Jagger probably showed him the chords and he served the song. I have to think Taylor knew the song well and that’s why he suggested it at Altamont.

Jimmy Johnson said Taylor played a Strat on Brown Sugar so I guess that was another take or an overdub.

But can we give Stu another round of applause for the piano? IMO that’s the star of the show here! Fantastic boogie!

Audio. I increased the volume a little, well below clipping.

[we.tl]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-31 19:56 by frankotero.

Thank you Franko!

Apparently Keith's guitar was quite out of tune or his bendings were. Glad they erased this early attempt at a guitar "solo".

Yes, very primitive but I suppose a nice historical document for people like us.

whoa!

i just noticed this thanks frankotero for posting the audio

it's sounds like it was recorded by someone with a microphone or a phone while it was being played back on speakers

though judging by the tape hiss it would seem this isn't a recording made anytime recently

definitely the earliest take to surface yet

really does sound like a bridge/link between the msg backstage version



and the version they performed at altamont




just fantastic

Man, I wish we had this amount of bootlegs/documentation of other Stones classics

The YouTube poster gives some more info in their post about the Wild Horses outtakes they posted - we can probably assume the Brown Sugar track was captured in the same manner - quote from posted comments over there:

"@nzb2004
1 month ago
Thanks for this interesting upload. This is the earliest known version of Wild Horses and not the basic take or the Acoustic Version (which normally plays with the lyric video). Ronald, could you upload it again without the noises around the 3-min. mark?

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Ronald starcjewski
@StickyFingersOuttakes
1 month ago
Sorry. This is what I have. I recorded it using my cell phone from a cassette playback that I was not supposed to record. That noise in the room happened at that point. I added the audio to this video in order to upload it, since you cannot put sound files on YouTube. There are a couple other versions of this song that I could upload, but they are really just early run throughs. Mick was still writing the lyrics and just tossing in whatever came to his mind while singing."

I love these type of recordings the gnarly quality adds to the charm. It’s like The Stones playing in your front room on borrowed equipment.

Well, as we know, they're often a shambles before somebody presses that "Magic" button.

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soundboard
The YouTube poster gives some more info in their post about the Wild Horses outtakes they posted :

Reply
Ronald starcjewski
@StickyFingersOuttakes

[...] There are a couple other versions of this song that I could upload, but they are really just early run throughs. Mick was still writing the lyrics and just tossing in whatever came to his mind while singing."

Wow! Even though they "are just early run throughs" [of Wild Horses] that´s gold, Ronald, GOLD!

Early Brown Sugar, short take

New youtube post from Ronald ;

"A short run through of Brown Sugar. Muscle Shoals 3 December 1969. I apologize for the sound quality, I recorded it with a cell phone."

Thank you for posting

thank you for sharing that

Hundreds of recordings we don’t even know the existence of…

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Lien
Early Brown Sugar, short take

New youtube post from Ronald ;

"A short run through of Brown Sugar. Muscle Shoals 3 December 1969. I apologize for the sound quality, I recorded it with a cell phone."

Not sure anything is revealed except an early take of the arpeggios.

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TravelinMan

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Lien
Early Brown Sugar, short take

New youtube post from Ronald ;

"A short run through of Brown Sugar. Muscle Shoals 3 December 1969. I apologize for the sound quality, I recorded it with a cell phone."

Not sure anything is revealed except an early take of the arpeggios.

Well, that the arpeggio's Taylor does on later versions stems from an Open G part Keith did early on. And that Taylor seemed to play the acoustic on all versions, perhaps even on the final official version. Sounds like it to me.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

Well, that the arpeggio's Taylor does on later versions stems from an Open G part Keith did early on. And that Taylor seemed to play the acoustic on all versions, perhaps even on the final official version. Sounds like it to me.

Mathijs

If that's Taylor on the official he did a good job.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Lien
Early Brown Sugar, short take

New youtube post from Ronald ;

"A short run through of Brown Sugar. Muscle Shoals 3 December 1969. I apologize for the sound quality, I recorded it with a cell phone."

Not sure anything is revealed except an early take of the arpeggios.

Well, that the arpeggio's Taylor does on later versions stems from an Open G part Keith did early on. And that Taylor seemed to play the acoustic on all versions, perhaps even on the final official version. Sounds like it to me.

Mathijs

Two electrics here, no?

On these early mixes it almost sounds like Taylor's using an acoustic with a pickup and is plugged into the board. Maybe it's just the mix.

On Sticky Fingers, the credit reads Keith on acoustic guitar.Is that right or is it Taylor?

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Taylor1
On Sticky Fingers, the credit reads Keith on acoustic guitar.Is that right or is it Taylor?

I can't recall what particular magazine but years ago Keith talked about how he would use the acoustic to "shadow" the song, to fill in the space without overwhelming it, something to that effect - and then, bizarrely, he said "And it's cheap!" which makes zero sense.

The example was Brown Sugar.

As I recall. I might still have the magazine. Guitar World or whatever. Maybe it was in some Stones book but usually Stones books don't talk about the creative process involving specifics with or about instruments.

I bet the credits on STICKY FINGERS are correct since Keith isn't listed on the songs he didn't play or sing on. Maybe Taylor did do an acoustic track but it wasn't good enough.

Ah. Here's the quote from Keith talking about Brown Sugar.

We use acoustic guitars a lot to shadow the electric, always have done. It gives another atmosphere to this track, makes it less dry. It's cheap, too.
- Keith Richards, 1993

[timeisonourside.com]

That was probably while he was on tour for MAIN OFFENDER.

I doubt Mick says Skydog slaver.

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GasLightStreet

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Taylor1
On Sticky Fingers, the credit reads Keith on acoustic guitar.Is that right or is it Taylor?

I can't recall what particular magazine but years ago Keith talked about how he would use the acoustic to "shadow" the song, to fill in the space without overwhelming it, something to that effect - and then, bizarrely, he said "And it's cheap!" which makes zero sense.

The example was Brown Sugar.

As I recall. I might still have the magazine. Guitar World or whatever. Maybe it was in some Stones book but usually Stones books don't talk about the creative process involving specifics with or about instruments.

I bet the credits on STICKY FINGERS are correct since Keith isn't listed on the songs he didn't play or sing on. Maybe Taylor did do an acoustic track but it wasn't good enough.

Ah. Here's the quote from Keith talking about Brown Sugar.

We use acoustic guitars a lot to shadow the electric, always have done. It gives another atmosphere to this track, makes it less dry. It's cheap, too.
- Keith Richards, 1993

[timeisonourside.com]

That was probably while he was on tour for MAIN OFFENDER.

I doubt Mick says Skydog slaver.

I haven't listened intently enough to compare the final acoustic vs the one on these early takes. Or even if there are two on the final mix. Before I listened on speakers I thought it might even be a clean electric direct into the board with the tone rolled back.

The part presumably Taylor is playing on the basic tracking is really a rhythmic, song outline device while Richards works out the riffs etc. It's just there chugging along to be an outline.