Since at least the 90's the band's sound has declined. IMO it has lost its edge, roughness, raw energy and beat.

I don't think Mick's singing has suffered too much, but the guitar playing is certainly in decline. I think Ronnie is fine but he has to play down to Keith's level and style.

Believe it or not, I think the band has not prospered since Bill Wyman left. I really believe that without Stu and Bill to drive Keith, the music has declined.

Any thoughts?

In 1995 i think the better sound, in 98 good too but some decline.
The last years to many special effects and too much musicians with the four Stones.
Sici

One thing I can tell for sure is that Charlie Watts hasn't declined.

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Wild Slivovitz
One thing I can tell for sure is that Charlie Watts hasn't declined.

Agreed, only in hair color.

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Wild Slivovitz
One thing I can tell for sure is that Charlie Watts hasn't declined.

he has, but the others have fallen so dramatically, that it's not really noticeable...

Seeing/hearing The Stones live is like....watching your mother walk up and down Times Square/Hollywood Blvd/Trafalgar Square muttering to herself while carrying 100 plastic bags.

Yes, the playing has gotten bad, however, so has Micks singing. The power and growl are not used. I think he still has IT, but he doesn't use it to conserve his voice. A perfect example is Shine a Light. JJF,SWH,SFTD, just to name a few are vocally HORRIBLE! ISLE of Wight show. SMU fantastic! SFTD=TERRIBLE! The band is only as good as the lead singer IMHO

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Bingo
Seeing/hearing The Stones live is like....watching your mother walk up and down Times Square/Hollywood Blvd/Trafalgar Square muttering to herself while carrying 100 plastic bags.

LOL!

Keith needs to stick to rhythm and let Ronnie (sober) play unrestrained lead, or Clapton, if willing, or MT. . ..

This discussion will make some unhappy and they will demand this thread be closed.

I will pay to see them again, and complain too.

I thought they were great in London in 07

Mick's vocals were not great in 1975-76 either, but Keith was rocking. Until he returns to playing with fire and passion they will be a show band, not a true rock band. I really think Keith is the key.

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deadegad

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Bingo
Seeing/hearing The Stones live is like....watching your mother walk up and down Times Square/Hollywood Blvd/Trafalgar Square muttering to herself while carrying 100 plastic bags.

LOL!

Keith needs to stick to rhythm and let Ronnie (sober) play unrestrained lead, or Clapton, if willing, or MT. . ..

This discussion will make some unhappy and they will demand this thread be closed.

I will pay to see them again, and complain too.

i never complain. i whine. i disgruntle. i grouse. i gripe. i grumble. i moan. but, i refuse to complain...it's undignified.

Age, production values (Don Was), etc. have defintely taken away the edge.

At my last Stones show (2006), I noticed a complete lack of DANGER. Most of the trapping of any other concert - except, of course, the band.

Ditto Bruce's recent tour. Not as much of the stuff that made/makes him/them unique.

Too sterile.

They did sound pretty good in London 2007.

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deadegad
let Ronnie (sober) play unrestrained lead,or Clapton, if willing, or MT. . ..

I can't believe some on this board can still type this sentence and still think it's even a valid option.

Too many musicians,too much "Production"(Don Was and Chuck Leavell on stage)and Keith's Problems too...2007 shows hasn't been their "Best"...

The peak of their post'89 days was 1997. They have dipped lower after that and plateaued for several tours now. But the quality sure ain't going up...it's slowly but surely sinking. Keith, to me, is the soul of the band. It is his performance alone that energizes the rest of the band. The lack of actual rhythm playing in recent tours has brought the band to rely on Chuck to fill in the gaps. Where there SHOULD be chords...there is noodling. keith has slowly turned into a jazz player where he fiddles around with a song more than actually strumming. That rhythm is the main component driving the music...when that's gone...the band is practicallly disconnected. keith lays the foundation.

keith needs to stick to playing rhythm guitar. end of story.

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LastStopThisTown
keith needs to stick to playing rhythm guitar. end of story.

those daze are long-gone. arthritis.

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LastStopThisTown
keith needs to stick to playing rhythm guitar. end of story.

Agree 100%

"No Anchovies, Please"

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mailexile67
...2007 shows hasn't been their "Best"...

some of them have been fantastic, actually (Lyon, Copenhagen, Rome, London 2nd night, Isle Of Whight, Oslo...).

I'm thinking about Werchter,Helsinky,Goteborg shows...In Werchter Keith was "absent"...

Before the concert in Oslo in 2007, I was pessimistic. But they were great. Of course, they don't sing or play as well as they did. But the sound was tough, I was impressed.

Without doubt it's Mick's singing.

Praha 1998 was fantastic as well as Bercy 2003 (forget the Olympia though...)
I just watched CYHMK from MSG 2003 01 16 and I was shocked by its mediocrity.
So I assume the days of "the band will deliver a satisfying performance on every single date" is gone. Now it's more "if you're lucky..."

PS : I DLed the Lyon 2007 show and I think it's pretty lame... Maybe I should get some Northern Europe shows or the London-O2's...

IMHO there wasn´t a decline until the ABB tour. It´s possible that Keith had some bad days following his brain surgery, and having to take medicine with side effects. But the shows were great anyway. And in 2007 i´ve seen some shows where Keith had some really great moments where his playing was strong like always.

And i think it´s possible that Keith and Ronnie don´t play together that often these days like they did in the 70s and 80s, where they rehearsed almost every day. Perhaps they should get together with their guitars and rehearse. Then we could expect a great tour later this year.

DiddleyBo

Mick rushes through lines. I understand keeping your voice, but take for example Get Off My Cloud... He sings the whole chorus line before the crowd gets to '... my cloud'. What gives? Why rush so much? Why not just sing it?

As for the guitar playing, every Stones show I have ever been to has had Ronnie at about HALF the volume of Keith. Bring back 78 when Keith and Ronnie were at the same volume!

The Sicilian makes a great point that we really have not talked a lot about that keith does not have Stu and Bill to push him . this i can agree with .

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The Sicilian
Since at least the 90's the band's sound has declined. IMO it has lost its edge, roughness, raw energy and beat.

Any thoughts?

Make it '74.

Since 89 the 'dirty' sound is gone due to:
- the back vocalists taking over from Ronnie/Keith
- Chuck instead of Ian Stewart/McL
- the annual decline of Ronnie since than Keith his decline started later but both have reached sometimes embarassing levels by now
- Jagger is way of singing

Well, everything since - 73 is in a way downhill! But- that´s pretty understandable. 1978 was great, well the nights they weren´t drunk and so on. 81-82...nothing to complain about! They still had it all...Then - 89 and after...not my cup of tea! Not dangerous anymore. Family entertainment! 94-95, a little bit better. 97-99, pretty much the same. 2002-2007...you have to really be looking for the reason for the Stones to be around! And - don´t be surprised: The version of that Redding-song on Four Flicks...when Mick goes wild...in the end (extras)...then FINALLY he shows us what he CAN do! But then Keith is not envolved at all...That´s my opinion! I respect yours! Maybe you have different experiences!