Tell Me :
Talk
His playing in the second verse is exactly what I mean: no doubt it's great playing, but it is subdued, with lots of palm muted strokes. It's behind the beat, not pushing forward. It's the sound that is aggressive, which likely is just the studio compressor being pushed to its limits during mixing, but the playing is not at all like the main riff of Bitch.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-06 16:02 by Mathijs.
The same note-pattern indeed, but more licks and lead lines complementing Keith's rhythm than a comparison for the rhythm playing on Bitch?
For me, there's a notable difference between them - mainly in how they use their right hand.
I notice some similarities as well. Great guitar team, to me the best the Stones ever had.
Taylor wouldn't be playing like that on a record. He could get away with it live, but the studio is a different ballgame.
Gibson SG and Ampeg Dan Armstrong through Fender 1968 Twin amps with JBL speakers, according to all pictures available from the 1970 sessions. Taylor's tone is to die for!
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-03 21:38 by Mathijs.
You should stop your constant focus on Taylor...According to you just about every part is played by Taylor and he should have received writing credits for just about every song. Still you don't recognize even the most basic part. It starts to irritate.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-03 21:39 by Mathijs.
What comes to my ears first (I may be mistaken) is that the punches of the main riff are often played by upstrokes ;in the attack the g string comes first every second time which gives it even a more aggressive punch, and live it's mostly downstrokes(as far as the footage shows). Apart from that the right hand approach seems the same on the live versions, in connection with the open a-string in particular.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-03 23:00 by TheflyingDutchman.
Indeed!
Unrelated note, but do you think they ever got to use those stolen Rickenbackers in the studio? Taylor said they would use a variety of guitars in the studio.
Don’t they drive on the right in the UK?
C
Right! What about France?
My other thought was KR is always stage left and he'd have performer perspective.
Which Rickenbackers do you mean?
Mathijs
There is an interview where Taylor said "we had some lovely Rickenbacker 12 and 6 strings with gold plated hardware nicked. We were always more adventurous in the studio with what we used."
It's Taylor on the album too, and he goes into that more complex rhythmic playing in the fadeout on the album. I have the feeling the "Extended Version" is just a previous take.
It's definitely not the LP version take. There are a lot of different things happening with the drums and guitars and the vocals are nothing like the LP version. Apparently it's take one, or it's the first of however many takes that got overdubbed, with the horns etc at Mick's house.
I have yet to see a picture of a Rickenbacker guitar after 1968 with the Stones. Jones had a 6- and 12-string model which he, according to some sources, gave away on the 1967 tour. According to Ted Newman Jones he rebuild a Rickenbacker and gave it to Keith in 1971. According to Taylor he recorded the slide of All Down the Line with this Rickenbacker, but the sound is that of the ES-355 with the varitone on position 2 or 3.
Keith used a 12-string for slide on the Let it Bleed album, this guitar is unidentified to date.
Mathijs
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Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 6, 2021 13:13
Quote
JakeA
video: [www.youtube.com]
Here`s a good proof that MT can play aggressively is he wants. Rhythm guitar on Live with me is played exatcly same style as on Bitch.
And if you listen Bitch, extented versions ending and Live with me´s third verse there is almost same guitar riffs on both tracks.
In think case is closed
His playing in the second verse is exactly what I mean: no doubt it's great playing, but it is subdued, with lots of palm muted strokes. It's behind the beat, not pushing forward. It's the sound that is aggressive, which likely is just the studio compressor being pushed to its limits during mixing, but the playing is not at all like the main riff of Bitch.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-06 16:02 by Mathijs.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: January 6, 2021 13:57
Gimme Shelter Philly 1972 is a better example, Taylors counterpart during the verses. Timing almost ahead of Charlie, almost same scratch sound and driving the song in an aggressive way. There are more examples if you search the internet, even besides the Stones.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 6, 2021 14:15
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Gimme Shelter Philly 1972 is a better example, Taylors counterpart during the verses. Timing almost ahead of Charlie, almost same scratch sound and driving the song in an aggressive way. There are more examples if you search the internet, even besides the Stones.
The same note-pattern indeed, but more licks and lead lines complementing Keith's rhythm than a comparison for the rhythm playing on Bitch?
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: January 6, 2021 14:31
To my ears, yes. Good enough to be Taylor on Bitch. Or Morning Story, Gothenburg '75,almost heavy metal. The loose A string on Bitch doesn't make the difference. Let me put it this way, and then I stop on this subject: There are live tracks (Ya ya's and Brussels) where you hardly hear the difference between Keith and Taylor at moments when they play the same rhythm . Why not on Bitch?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-06 14:43 by TheflyingDutchman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-06 14:43 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 6, 2021 15:08
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
To my ears, yes. Good enough to be Taylor on Bitch. Or Morning Story, Gothenburg '75,almost heavy metal. The loose A string on Bitch doesn't make the difference. Let me put it this way, and then I stop on this subject: There are live tracks (Ya ya's and Brussels) where you hardly hear the difference between Keith and Taylor at moments when they play the same rhythm . Why not on Bitch?
For me, there's a notable difference between them - mainly in how they use their right hand.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: January 6, 2021 23:58
Quote
DandelionPowderman
For me, there's a notable difference between them - mainly in how they use their right hand.
I notice some similarities as well. Great guitar team, to me the best the Stones ever had.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: January 7, 2021 04:58
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchman
Gimme Shelter Philly 1972 is a better example, Taylors counterpart during the verses. Timing almost ahead of Charlie, almost same scratch sound and driving the song in an aggressive way. There are more examples if you search the internet, even besides the Stones.
The same note-pattern indeed, but more licks and lead lines complementing Keith's rhythm than a comparison for the rhythm playing on Bitch?
Taylor wouldn't be playing like that on a record. He could get away with it live, but the studio is a different ballgame.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 7, 2021 05:22
The Stones like it! It's on MADE IN THE SHADE, which it absolutely should be. It's on TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE, which is a fantastic comp. It made it on JUMP BACK and it's update, HONK.
It's also on SINGLES 1968-1971.
It's also on SINGLES 1968-1971.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 3, 2026 15:48
I wonder what guitar and amp setups they used for this song. Both have monster tones. I can hear the amp breathing on Taylor's channel!
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 3, 2026 15:54
Another thing I've noticed digging through mixes of this era is Keith Richards main guitar is 90% in the left channel. The right channel is either Taylor or in some cases, a Richards counter-rhythm.
Notable exceptions are "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" and songs where Richards isn't playing guitar, like "Moonlight Mile".
My theory is he liked to drive around in a car and listen to working mixes, so naturally, he'd want to hear himself on the driver's side!
Notable exceptions are "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" and songs where Richards isn't playing guitar, like "Moonlight Mile".
My theory is he liked to drive around in a car and listen to working mixes, so naturally, he'd want to hear himself on the driver's side!
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: June 3, 2026 19:41
This Bitch alternate validates that it’s Taylor , not Keith on the rhythm guitar and he is playing the famous riff.Maybe he should have gotten a writer’s credit like Wood got for One Hit to the Body
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: June 3, 2026 20:48
There's a great guitar jank then the horns crank before 'Yeah when you call my name...' in one part. Stones songs with horns are fantastic. Gotta create a comp of them. Too bad they didn't do Rocks Off live in 1989-90 when they had the horns for Bitch and the temp would've been much better than it ever has been since.
Bitch is one of those Stones songs that has that perfect middleness with its rolling beat. Like Shattered, Doo Doo Doo and Rocks Off it moves at a perfect clip.
Bitch is one of those Stones songs that has that perfect middleness with its rolling beat. Like Shattered, Doo Doo Doo and Rocks Off it moves at a perfect clip.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: June 3, 2026 21:33
Quote
TravelinMan
I wonder what guitar and amp setups they used for this song. Both have monster tones. I can hear the amp breathing on Taylor's channel!
Gibson SG and Ampeg Dan Armstrong through Fender 1968 Twin amps with JBL speakers, according to all pictures available from the 1970 sessions. Taylor's tone is to die for!
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-03 21:38 by Mathijs.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: June 3, 2026 21:35
Quote
Taylor1
This Bitch alternate validates that it’s Taylor , not Keith on the rhythm guitar and he is playing the famous riff.Maybe he should have gotten a writer’s credit like Wood got for One Hit to the Body
You should stop your constant focus on Taylor...According to you just about every part is played by Taylor and he should have received writing credits for just about every song. Still you don't recognize even the most basic part. It starts to irritate.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-03 21:39 by Mathijs.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: June 3, 2026 22:12
Quote
TravelinMan
I wonder what guitar and amp setups they used for this song. Both have monster tones. I can hear the amp breathing on Taylor's channel!
What comes to my ears first (I may be mistaken) is that the punches of the main riff are often played by upstrokes ;in the attack the g string comes first every second time which gives it even a more aggressive punch, and live it's mostly downstrokes(as far as the footage shows). Apart from that the right hand approach seems the same on the live versions, in connection with the open a-string in particular.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-03 23:00 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: June 3, 2026 22:15
--------
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-03 22:15 by TheflyingDutchman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-03 22:15 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: June 3, 2026 22:56
Quote
MathijsQuote
Taylor1
This Bitch alternate validates that it’s Taylor , not Keith on the rhythm guitar and he is playing the famous riff.Maybe he should have gotten a writer’s credit like Wood got for One Hit to the Body
You should stop your constant focus on Taylor...According to you just about every part is played by Taylor and he should have received writing credits for just about every song. Still you don't recognize even the most basic part. It starts to irritate.
Mathijs[/quote.Dude, I am not focusing on anybody .You have been saying for years on this site that Taylor didn’t play that guitar.It irritates that someone who is so knowledgeable about guitars can’t accept that you are wrong.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 4, 2026 01:54
The extended version showcases something Taylor would often do: play around with variations of the theme and add variety. He would rarely stick to one thing the entire time if left to his own devices.
What’s funny is I think Richards (or Jimmy Miller) probably told him to “play it straight” when they tracked the keeper.
If you listen to some of Taylor’s obscure live recordings—like with Corky Laing where he holds down the rhythm for example—he definitely will play crunchy rhythm when it’s called for.
What’s funny is I think Richards (or Jimmy Miller) probably told him to “play it straight” when they tracked the keeper.
If you listen to some of Taylor’s obscure live recordings—like with Corky Laing where he holds down the rhythm for example—he definitely will play crunchy rhythm when it’s called for.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 4, 2026 01:56
Quote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
I wonder what guitar and amp setups they used for this song. Both have monster tones. I can hear the amp breathing on Taylor's channel!
Gibson SG and Ampeg Dan Armstrong through Fender 1968 Twin amps with JBL speakers, according to all pictures available from the 1970 sessions. Taylor's tone is to die for!
Mathijs
Indeed!
Unrelated note, but do you think they ever got to use those stolen Rickenbackers in the studio? Taylor said they would use a variety of guitars in the studio.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: June 4, 2026 02:41
Quote
TravelinMan
Another thing I've noticed digging through mixes of this era is Keith Richards main guitar is 90% in the left channel. The right channel is either Taylor or in some cases, a Richards counter-rhythm.
Notable exceptions are "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" and songs where Richards isn't playing guitar, like "Moonlight Mile".
My theory is he liked to drive around in a car and listen to working mixes, so naturally, he'd want to hear himself on the driver's side!
Don’t they drive on the right in the UK?
C
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 4, 2026 03:56
Quote
liddasQuote
TravelinMan
Another thing I've noticed digging through mixes of this era is Keith Richards main guitar is 90% in the left channel. The right channel is either Taylor or in some cases, a Richards counter-rhythm.
Notable exceptions are "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" and songs where Richards isn't playing guitar, like "Moonlight Mile".
My theory is he liked to drive around in a car and listen to working mixes, so naturally, he'd want to hear himself on the driver's side!
Don’t they drive on the right in the UK?
C
Right! What about France?My other thought was KR is always stage left and he'd have performer perspective.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
sgt
()
Date: June 4, 2026 06:06
Brings back the memory of standing on a walkway above the Harbour side site listening to them play Bitch during a sound check, Hong Kong 2003. Not sure they played it at either show but they did play for sound check.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-04 06:08 by sgt.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-06-04 06:08 by sgt.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: June 4, 2026 11:20
Quote
TravelinManQuote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
I wonder what guitar and amp setups they used for this song. Both have monster tones. I can hear the amp breathing on Taylor's channel!
Gibson SG and Ampeg Dan Armstrong through Fender 1968 Twin amps with JBL speakers, according to all pictures available from the 1970 sessions. Taylor's tone is to die for!
Mathijs
Indeed!
Unrelated note, but do you think they ever got to use those stolen Rickenbackers in the studio? Taylor said they would use a variety of guitars in the studio.
Which Rickenbackers do you mean?
Mathijs
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 4, 2026 14:56
Quote
Mathijs
Which Rickenbackers do you mean?
Mathijs
There is an interview where Taylor said "we had some lovely Rickenbacker 12 and 6 strings with gold plated hardware nicked. We were always more adventurous in the studio with what we used."
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Eleanor Rigby
()
Date: June 4, 2026 16:46
Ok, im confused. Is it Taylor on the album version playing the rhythm guitar?
That extended version sounds great.
But there are quotes about Keith putting the final guitar on it.
That extended version sounds great.
But there are quotes about Keith putting the final guitar on it.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 4, 2026 18:37
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Ok, im confused. Is it Taylor on the album version playing the rhythm guitar?
That extended version sounds great.
But there are quotes about Keith putting the final guitar on it.
It's Taylor on the album too, and he goes into that more complex rhythmic playing in the fadeout on the album. I have the feeling the "Extended Version" is just a previous take.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: June 5, 2026 00:37
Quote
TravelinManQuote
Eleanor Rigby
Ok, im confused. Is it Taylor on the album version playing the rhythm guitar?
That extended version sounds great.
But there are quotes about Keith putting the final guitar on it.
It's Taylor on the album too, and he goes into that more complex rhythmic playing in the fadeout on the album. I have the feeling the "Extended Version" is just a previous take.
It's definitely not the LP version take. There are a lot of different things happening with the drums and guitars and the vocals are nothing like the LP version. Apparently it's take one, or it's the first of however many takes that got overdubbed, with the horns etc at Mick's house.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: June 5, 2026 02:26
You can hear the horns playing live on the alternate take.Here they were removedQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
TravelinManQuote
Eleanor Rigby
Ok, im confused. Is it Taylor on the album version playing the rhythm guitar?
That extended version sounds great.
But there are quotes about Keith putting the final guitar on it.
It's Taylor on the album too, and he goes into that more complex rhythmic playing in the fadeout on the album. I have the feeling the "Extended Version" is just a previous take.
It's definitely not the LP version take. There are a lot of different things happening with the drums and guitars and the vocals are nothing like the LP version. Apparently it's take one, or it's the first of however many takes that got overdubbed, with the horns etc at Mick's house.
Re: Track Talk: Bitch
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: June 5, 2026 12:58
Quote
TravelinManQuote
Mathijs
Which Rickenbackers do you mean?
Mathijs
There is an interview where Taylor said "we had some lovely Rickenbacker 12 and 6 strings with gold plated hardware nicked. We were always more adventurous in the studio with what we used."
I have yet to see a picture of a Rickenbacker guitar after 1968 with the Stones. Jones had a 6- and 12-string model which he, according to some sources, gave away on the 1967 tour. According to Ted Newman Jones he rebuild a Rickenbacker and gave it to Keith in 1971. According to Taylor he recorded the slide of All Down the Line with this Rickenbacker, but the sound is that of the ES-355 with the varitone on position 2 or 3.
Keith used a 12-string for slide on the Let it Bleed album, this guitar is unidentified to date.
Mathijs
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